Mad Max Posted November 19, 2010 Posted November 19, 2010 I might not disagree with your final conclusion -- that a girl who has a current fwb isn't a girl I'd necessarily like to date -- but I can't agree with how you go there. Don't take it for granted that you see sex as a commodity. It is a very precise way of viewing the date, as a means to ultimately buy sex -- to invest into her sex market, whether that be a financial or emotional investment, or both. From this viewpoint alone, you will begin to color certain actions as negative or unfair, because the viewpoint has enabled you to feel entitled, by nature of what you perceive to be a universal currency, to what are now goods, seemingly in perfect supply. You complete some controversial maxims with that assertion: not just that women's bodies, to you, are bought and sold, conceptually or literally; but that women are interchangeable; and the relationships women have with men are interchangeable with other men. Make no mistake: this is misogyny. No judgments from me, so long as you own it. You could not be more incorrect. I am a realist and look at what happens in real life. Just because it's something you don't want to hear, doesn't mean it's hating on women.
AverageJoe Posted November 19, 2010 Posted November 19, 2010 No, it's a matter of respect. If I'm sleeping with someone, I'm not asking anyone else on a date. If I ask a woman if she's seeing anyone, I expect that to include "sleeping with someone". Respect should be earned, not given. Why would you automatically respect anyone you really know nothing about or may be meeting for the first time?
AverageJoe Posted November 19, 2010 Posted November 19, 2010 I'm assuming we agree then? If I understood you correctly, yes.
xpaperxcutx Posted November 19, 2010 Posted November 19, 2010 You could not be more incorrect. I am a realist and look at what happens in real life. Just because it's something you don't want to hear, doesn't mean it's hating on women. Are you refering to depressive realism? According to wiki The concept refers to people with borderline or moderate depression, suggesting that while non-depressed people see things in an overly positive light and severely depressed people see things in overly negative light, the mildly discontented grey area in between in fact reflects the most accurate perception of reality. And I am not diagnosing you. I just think you need to expand your perception more instead of looking at things one-sidedly rather than following a self imposed dogma.
Mad Max Posted November 19, 2010 Posted November 19, 2010 Are you refering to depressive realism? According to wiki And I am not diagnosing you. I just think you need to expand your perception more instead of looking at things one-sidedly rather than following a self imposed dogma. No. Realism as opposed to idealism. Realism- the tendency to view or represent things as they really are. Idealism- a theory that ultimate reality lies in a realm transcending phenomena
AverageJoe Posted November 19, 2010 Posted November 19, 2010 Are you refering to depressive realism? I didnt get that from his post at all.
xpaperxcutx Posted November 19, 2010 Posted November 19, 2010 No. Realism as opposed to idealism. Still, perception can be deceptive. I still think it's important to keep an open mind.
welikeincrowds Posted November 19, 2010 Posted November 19, 2010 You could not be more incorrect. I am a realist and look at what happens in real life. Just because it's something you don't want to hear, doesn't mean it's hating on women. I never said it was wrong. In fact I specifically said "no judgments from me." We may disagree but it doesn't threaten me. All I've done is take what you've written and bring it to its conclusions. Your view is an objectification of women, and it is therefore misogynistic. Call it being a "realist" if you'd like; I'd call that a euphemism. The thing is, Mad Max, I didn't supply any outside evidence. I only took from what you wrote. So I find it ironic that you'd use a dismissal like "something I don't want to hear," when I could not be any more impartial. It makes no difference to me. But apparently, it does to you.
Author thatsonlyme Posted November 19, 2010 Author Posted November 19, 2010 Respect should be earned, not given. Why would you automatically respect anyone you really know nothing about or may be meeting for the first time? I beg to disagree. I respect every person by default until they prove me wrong. what happened to innocent until proven guilty? It appears that everyone has different point of view, that's why broken hearts part of forum is so busy obviously we're all different, but in my opinion, FWB relationships should be discussed as such while dating should be exclusive from very beginning. My point is, it's more fair to say in the beginning "I'm not looking for a relationship" or "we should be just friends with benefits" as opposed to exclusivity talk months down the road when it's already too late because the damage has been done. @Average Joe, your lifestyle is your choice, it's a matter of personal preference, it's exciting and feels liberating, you get the best of both worlds, but most people eventually settle down at some point. I'm not talking about marriage here, I don't care about that, or kids either, I'm talking about having everything in one person, when you don't need anything or anybody else. When you care about other person more than you care about yourself, that feels good and gives life purpose other than sleeping, eating and sex. you have reasons why you prefer FWB, here is a list of my reasons why I prefer relationships: sex without condom is just amazing! Casual sex=condom. Having one person you share everything with. Having that person in bed next to you every nigh. two people make more than one, simple math says you cannot have more money if you're single. If one person loses job it's easier to survive. there is much more and everything can be summed in one word LOVE. cheesy I know, but you can't understand it until you experience it. people are scared of commitment now days, but to be honest I believe it's only mother nature's way of dealing with overpopulation. We're all part of much bigger picture.
phineas Posted November 19, 2010 Posted November 19, 2010 I'n pushing 40. I got no problem getting dates. I do however have a problem with every woman pursuing multiple options while expecting me not to date other women. I'm not going to invest myself fully in a woman that isn't doing the same. Exclusive to me = sex. IN my experience women flat out lie to me about other guys. I've had women go on 3 or 4 dates with me then "poof" It's because she decided she liked the other guy better. also, if a woman KNOWS I have other options & KNOWS I don't need her they seem to stick around a lot longer & put more effort into making time for me. Go figure.
zengirl Posted November 19, 2010 Posted November 19, 2010 At a certain point (I'd say by date 3 and certainly long before sex), I definitely stop seeing others if I'm sincerely interested in someone. It might take me less than 1 date----just meeting them----or it might take me a couple. But by a pretty early point, I know. I don't do comparison dating. Multi-dating happens for me purely because I get asked out a lot, first dates can be dreadful so you don't want to invest too heavily beforehand, and I don't want to put a fellow off who might be fantastic because I have a date with a guy I don't really know yet. But it's never, "Let's see which of these 3 are the best!" Each guy gets evaluated on his own and the first one who I'm really interested in gets my undivided attention. This happens rarely enough I've never been truly interested in 2 guys at the same time----I'm picky. Honestly I don't understand what you're asking/saying. Because first you say that as soon as you have a first kiss w/ someone you're dating, you are exclusive with them. Then next you say that you were randomly hooking up w/ two women and you dumped them both as soon as you met another woman. Those two different things don't jive!! So I guess I can't answer your question but I will try to answer it anyway. I would not consider myself exclusive to a guy that I went on a couple dates w/ and had a first kiss or even several kisses with. In fact I wouldn't consider myself exclusive until we'd had 'the talk' and both agreed we wanted to be in a committed relationship. Right---what I don't get about the OP is he's essentially expecting women to read his mind. He'll play around----oh, and then he's not exclusive, because it's just a hookup in his mind---but if he likes a girl, he expects her to be exclusive because he is, but he hasn't told her. Women aren't magic and we don't read minds. Ask, if you want exclusivity! If you don't ask, don't expect it. No, it's not cultural. I'm an American born-and-bred and I feel the same way. I don't know any men in real life who don't. I don't care if a woman goes out with other men when I start dating her, but I do think it's reasonable to assume she's not sleeping with anyone when she agrees to go out with me. If that means I'm oppressing her vagina or being judgmental about her lifestyle, so be it. I just think she should tell me so that I don't waste my time going out with her again. I do think the sex thing is reasonable, but I expect the same of a fella, frankly. If I sense a guy is sleeping with someone else when we're dating (even if we're not exclusive), I'll drop him like a hot potato. Not so much with a few casual dates with others very early on, though. Respect should be earned, not given. Why would you automatically respect anyone you really know nothing about or may be meeting for the first time? Respect should be given freely, but rescinded when the person shows themselves unworthy. It doesn't hurt you to give people the respect they're due as human beings and approach the world with a positive attitude----in fact, it makes for a happier, friendlier life. Now no one should be in love on a first date, but we can show respect even to strangers! In fact, respecting others is a demonstration of self-respect as well and commands more respect.
AverageJoe Posted November 20, 2010 Posted November 20, 2010 I beg to disagree. I respect every person by default until they prove me wrong. what happened to innocent until proven guilty? We dont conduct our everyday lives as if we were in a court of law. Respect should be given freely, but rescinded when the person shows themselves unworthy. It doesn't hurt you to give people the respect they're due as human beings and approach the world with a positive attitude----in fact, it makes for a happier, friendlier life. Now no one should be in love on a first date, but we can show respect even to strangers! In fact, respecting others is a demonstration of self-respect as well and commands more respect. Nah, I dont see it that way at all. To automatically give out respect to anyone you dont know or have just met is foolish, and dishonest. For someone to automatically respect everyone, that would mean people respect the likes of Timothy McVeigh, or Stalin. You dont respect those people, do you? I know I dont. What I will do is treat people with kindness, and in a cordial fashion while using manners. Until then, I have no reason to respect anyone until it is earned.
ice salamander Posted November 20, 2010 Posted November 20, 2010 You date around and sleep with as many girls as possible. Only when the girl asks to be exclusive, is when you have that option. Don't ever ask for it. Also if you're dating around and she finds out, your perceived value will go up. Now she has to fight for you, win you over. This is not emotional manipulation or the jealously game. If you're not dating around she'll think you're some loser who can't get any other girl and then she'll begin to wonder. I used to be the same way. I'd always assume dating was exclusive from the first date. Times have changed and we have to adapt as humans. END OF STORY.
beatlejuice Posted November 22, 2010 Posted November 22, 2010 I agree with the OP. Good to know a guy actually thinks the same thing. I'm so jaded over this that I feel like throwing in the towel on dating for awhile, but perhaps I should just move to Europe? The last guy I dated told me he wasn't seeing anyone else but didn't want to rush into a relationship when I brought up the exclusivity topic. Then I found out via his facebook statuses that he was sleeping with other chicks. Really, how smart can you be?
Sugarbear Posted November 22, 2010 Posted November 22, 2010 I must be rusty as well as I had no idea while I was in a committed monagomous relationship - neither party dating or having intimacy with any one else, communicating dailty with each other at least 2-3 times per day on the days we were not together, spending at lease 2 weeknights together in addition to Friday night, Saturday night and part of Sunday every week without question; having a key to the ex's house, and the ex suggesting I leave clothes at the house the ex owns; and being told that the ex felt sad when our weekend ended and I went home on Sunday - after 6-7 months of this interaction together - I had no idea we dated casually - which is what I was told when our relationship abruptly ended and when I didn't understand I was told "we casually dated and it didn't work out" - it is what it is - sorry. I am curious - is what I've described above casual dating? That doesn't answer your question about exclusivity but I would love to hear what most people feel casual dating means?
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