Do women want relationships anymore or sex buddies?

[Mme. Chaucer]

Didn't mean to give you the heebee jeebies, but it's very real that many, many women do have lots of casual sex on nights where the "date" dude got her horned up for the F-buddy. Have been in both roles many times.

 

Wow, where do you live? I'm sure glad I don't hang out with your circle of friends.

 

The women I know would not have a "date dude" get her "horned up" to have sex with some other guy. WHY would she do that? MANY times, no less. Huh.

 

There are some funny Tucker Max stories where he goes by a girl's house for a quick BJ before her BF or date picks her up. It's not fiction, and it's not an exaggeration. It's fine, but in a world where women have no expectations on them whatsoever, why do the expectations remain for men? That's the annoying part for me.

 

In the world where I live, I, as a woman, hold MYSELF to high standards (which does not, incidentally, infer anything at all about my opinion of casual sex). I would have absolutely no time or interest in any man who didn't do the same.

 

To the OP - read these boards. You can find a recent thread about "why are women so obsessed with finding 'THE ONE.' On that thread you will find men whining about women wanting to find "THE ONE" with just as much vigor as some are complaining here about women who avail themselves of casual sex.

 

If YOU want to have a relationship, you will find a compatible woman to have one with. Don't give up ... and when you KNOW that the one you're with is not interested in the same thing that you are, you take care of yourself and move on.

[TheBigQuestion]

I'm not sure just how many women actually go on dates and then have sex with some other guy a few hours later, but I know that it happens much more frequently when it's a day or two apart. This is not necessarily something done out of malice but something done out of sheer availability. One of my best friends is a girl and there have been occasions where she would go out with one guy and then later on, if not have sex with the next guy, at the very least make out with him. Our relationship was sexual initially and she did this with me and probably to me as well, but we worked too well as friends for that to really piss me off. Her total number of sexual partners is still well in the single digits (or so she says) and she's only mildly attractive, yet even she can pull these types of stunts without any difficulty.

 

I'd say a good portion of reasonably attractive females that I know have engaged in this type of behavior at some point or do so currently. The main reason they do that is because they can. So it makes me happy that I don't really "date," and even happier that I arrived at this non-dating habit by accident and coincidence rather than by deliberation. Which is why I'm content with the situation I am in. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em.

[Cobra_X]

Wow, where do you live? I'm sure glad I don't hang out with your circle of friends.

The women I know would not have a "date dude" get her "horned up" to have sex with some other guy. WHY would she do that? MANY times, no less. Huh.

In the world where I live, I, as a woman, hold MYSELF to high standards (which does not, incidentally, infer anything at all about my opinion of casual sex). I would have absolutely no time or interest in any man who didn't do the same.

To the OP - read these boards. You can find a recent thread about "why are women so obsessed with finding 'THE ONE.' On that thread you will find men whining about women wanting to find "THE ONE" with just as much vigor as some are complaining here about women who avail themselves of casual sex.

If YOU want to have a relationship, you will find a compatible woman to have one with. Don't give up ... and when you KNOW that the one you're with is not interested in the same thing that you are, you take care of yourself and move on.

 

I went to a party 2 weeks ago just before Halloween. My buddy Jimmy met a girl he really clicked with. They wound up going out to his car and having sex that night. 2 hours later she went to the restroom and never came back. An hour after that I walk to the backyard and see she is having sex with another guy under the staircase. That's "Real World"

 

Your group of 50 something friends can't really relate to what these younger guys go through.

 

The 20 something girl crowd has very little in terms of morals. Very damn little.

 

I've also heard of chicks getting worked up on dates and going back to sleep with other guys. Yeah it sounds F'ed up... but that's the end game of the philosophy you preach.

 

Don't be like the KKK leader "amazed" that his followers engage in hate crimes. Realize that these younger girls live in the real world and take your ideas to some serious extremes!

[welikeincrowds]

I went to a party 2 weeks ago just before Halloween. My buddy Jimmy met a girl he really clicked with. They wound up going out to his car and having sex that night. 2 hours later she went to the restroom and never came back. An hour after that I walk to the backyard and see she is having sex with another guy under the staircase. That's "Real World"

 

Dude, that's a disorder. That girl needs therapy.

 

I've also heard of chicks getting worked up on dates and going back to sleep with other guys.

 

For these women, that's likely not dissimilar from being worked up on a date and then going back to use a vibrator. When people are willing to use each other's bodies like that... well, who's to stop two consenting adults from having impersonal sex?

 

If you intend for that to be shocking, then I'd like to remind you to read the newspaper.

[Mme. Chaucer]

 

 

Your group of 50 something friends can't really relate to what these younger guys go through.

 

 

 

Well, being 50 something means that I was young during a very lively time for sexual escapades ... especially being in San Francisco. You know, summer of love and all that.

 

I have a daughter who is in her 20's and I know all about what she and her friends are up to. Sometimes I wish I didn't. Anyway, I am not in denial; casual sex is abundant. Nobody has to be victimized by it.

[sanskrit]

Wow, where do you live? I'm sure glad I don't hang out with your circle of friends.

 

See fellows, because I speak the truth, I have a "bad circle of friends," hence by implication I'm low quality myself. Instead of merely agreeing or disagreeing with what I've posted about experiencing living all over the place and being in every position of dating several times over 30 years of dating, it's all about my "circle of friends." And this from a married woman who likely hasn't dated in some time, yet knows how things are with my bad circle of friends that includes professionals, executives, musicians, academics, entrepreneurs, etc.

 

The women I know would not have a "date dude" get her "horned up" to have sex with some other guy. WHY would she do that? MANY times, no less. Huh.

 

Free food, free drinks and going out is not enough to get many women in the mood? Who will she have sex with once she is in that mood, the guy whom she wants to impress that she is relationship material, that she is the delicate flower he's been searching for? No way in hell, she will throw down with the tattooed, tuque-wearing "FWB" across her hall. Or sometimes she might call me over. Saying again, I've been in both places enough to know how much this kind of thing goes on. Keep trying though, it's funny.

 

To the OP - read these boards. You can find a recent thread about "why are women so obsessed with finding 'THE ONE.' On that thread you will find men whining about women wanting to find "THE ONE" with just as much vigor as some are complaining here about women who avail themselves of casual sex.

 

And the threads do not contradict in the least. She will keep right on having sex with the F-buddies while she reels in "The One," while he courts her, and sees nothing wrong with accepting "The One's" gentlemanly largesse despite not behaving as anything approximating a lady while she carries on with these other guys. And she is SURE not going to fess up to The One. I'm sure many women here don't do this kind of thing, but restating, they ALL know women who do, and know -exactly- how common it is, despite the infinite protestations.

 

Moreover, once The One slips up and doesn' call her the third time that day, doesn't return her text for two hours, or gets trapped late at work, guess where she's headed to "get back" at him? Yep, right across the hall (or down the road to TheBigQuestion's pad ).

 

That's exactly the phenomenon men are sounding off about here. Today, it's not at all uncommon, more like business as usual in many hyper-privileged American females' minds. They can screw whomever they want, but at least just drop the gentlemanly expectations of men.

[welikeincrowds]

Well, being 50 something means that I was young during a very lively time for sexual escapades ... especially being in San Francisco. You know, summer of love and all that.

 

I have a daughter who is in her 20's and I know all about what she and her friends are up to. Sometimes I wish I didn't. Anyway, I am not in denial; casual sex is abundant. Nobody has to be victimized by it.

 

Sometimes I get the sense that I could listen to you all day. Certainly you have some sort of newsletter or podcast or something I can subscribe to.

[TheBigQuestion]

Although I haven't been around nearly as long as sanskrit says he has been, I've already seen quite a bit of what he's describing. Dating generally is a net loss for men and a net gain for women. A man who is involved in an FWB/multiple FWB arrangement is generally only behaving in ways that are equal to how your average young woman (i.e. not hyper-religious) behaves in the USA in 2010.

[Cobra_X]

Well, being 50 something means that I was young during a very lively time for sexual escapades ... especially being in San Francisco. You know, summer of love and all that.

I have a daughter who is in her 20's and I know all about what she and her friends are up to. Sometimes I wish I didn't. Anyway, I am not in denial; casual sex is abundant. Nobody has to be victimized by it.

 

Got it... but not everyone needs to subscribe to haight-ashbury style sexual attitudes. Most of us are in the middle.

 

I get offended when women sleep with other men while I'm dating them. I don't ask for a heck of a lot... but some kind of exclusivity is one thing I prefer in a partner.

 

The problem with casual sex in this way is that typically someone is victimized... it's just done at an emotional distance so he/she doesn't have to feel any type of empathy.

[sfl]

Wow, sanskrit sure has a low opinion of women huh?

For these women, that's likely not dissimilar from being worked up on a date and then going back to use a vibrator.

Sorry, but these things are not even close to being similar, and I'm sure I'm not alone in saying I wouldn't go near a girl who thought or acted in this way.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Well, here's what I think.

 

Guys bitching about how materialistic and skanky women are because said guys just spent 500 last week on dates with half a dozen gals are just as ridiculous as girls whining about "all he wants me for is sex" when she just finished having sex with a fellow who was perfectly clear with her that he just wanted sex, not a relationship.

 

People make mistakes. If they continue to repeat the same patterns that felt hurtful to them before, then it's on THEM. No victims there.

 

If you, man or woman, don't like the way your dealings with the other gender have been going and you recognize a pattern, look at YOURSELF. Not the opposite sex.

 

No argumentative person on LS is going to successfully refute my knowledge. There are many, many, many men and women who have found others who are like minded and share values. I am one.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Sometimes I get the sense that I could listen to you all day. Certainly you have some sort of newsletter or podcast or something I can subscribe to.

 

Thanks, doll!

[impz]

Well, here's what I think.

 

Guys bitching about how materialistic and skanky women are because said guys just spent 500 last week on dates with half a dozen gals are just as ridiculous as girls whining about "all he wants me for is sex" when she just finished having sex with a fellow who was perfectly clear with her that he just wanted sex, not a relationship.

 

People make mistakes. If they continue to repeat the same patterns that felt hurtful to them before, then it's on THEM. No victims there.

 

If you, man or woman, don't like the way your dealings with the other gender have been going and you recognize a pattern, look at YOURSELF. Not the opposite sex.

 

No argumentative person on LS is going to successfully refute my knowledge. There are many, many, many men and women who have found others who are like minded and share values. I am one.

 

Totally agreed.

 

I am a married guy myself, and I totally recoiled in shock (and laughter) at times by the things certain posters write about the opposite sex. I wonder if the usual assumption goes like this.

 

I got cheated by a girl/boy -> I see two of my friends of the opposite sex cheating -> The opposite sex are cheaters -> The opposite sex is promiscuous -> The opposite sex epitomizes all the evil things in the world -> I hate the opposite sex -> Time to flame them on LS!

 

The number of logical flaws astound me. Yet, I see this back end assumption countless times in the arguments made by so many people.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Got it... but not everyone needs to subscribe to haight-ashbury style sexual attitudes. Most of us are in the middle.

 

Just because it might be interesting in this context, I will tell you that I was not sexually "free" even within that environment. I was a virgin! I had made a decision to remain a virgin until I was over 18 years old and absolutely seriously in love, witch I stuck to. I had lots of guys trying to get in my pants, and some of them tried to "trick" me, but I did not go for it, ever.

 

I'm not going to judge all men by the creepy ones I've known.

 

 

I get offended when women sleep with other men while I'm dating them. I don't ask for a heck of a lot... but some kind of exclusivity is one thing I prefer in a partner.

 

Me too. And we can have that.

 

The problem with casual sex in this way is that typically someone is victimized... it's just done at an emotional distance so he/she doesn't have to feel any type of empathy.

 

I'm not going to agree with that. The participants are volunteers. If somebody is taken advantage of by a dishonest person, I have a lot of sympathy and empathy for them ... but it's up to them to take care of themselves, get out of the situation and avoid similar ones going forward.

[welikeincrowds]

Wow, sanskrit sure has a low opinion of women huh?

 

Sorry, but these things are not even close to being similar, and I'm sure I'm not alone in saying I wouldn't go near a girl who thought or acted in this way.

 

I'm right there with you, man.

 

My point is that these are particular cases involving damaged people, but the poster was making an argument about the general dating practice and expectations of women in their 20s.

[sanskrit]

I got cheated by a girl/boy -> I see two of my friends of the opposite sex cheating -> The opposite sex are cheaters -> The opposite sex is promiscuous -> The opposite sex epitomizes all the evil things in the world -> I hate the opposite sex -> Time to flame them on LS!

 

The number of logical flaws astound me.

 

If you are into logical flaws, maybe google "straw man." The above quote from you is about a bale full.

 

Humans learn most of what they learn through inductive reasoning, as opposed to deductive syllogisms. How many observations leads to a "valid" generalization? Can be 1 actually. "I saw a three legged dog. All dogs have only three legs." Perfectly valid because the truth values line up. "I saw a four legged dog. All dogs have only three legs." Invalid. Truth values don't line up.

 

Soundness is another matter in inductive reasoning, and much more tricky. 1 observation usually isn't enough. 100 may be, if the topic is dating experiences.

 

The generalizations I have made are valid and arguably sound. If you don't think they are valid, tough, they are by definition. If you don't think they are sound, that's your prerogative, but try to do better than spouting out a straw laden string of things I never posted if you want to try to refute them convincingly.

[Cobra_X]

Dude, that's a disorder. That girl needs therapy.

For these women, that's likely not dissimilar from being worked up on a date and then going back to use a vibrator. When people are willing to use each other's bodies like that... well, who's to stop two consenting adults from having impersonal sex?

If you intend for that to be shocking, then I'd like to remind you to read the newspaper.

 

Oh, I totally agree with you. I've been doing the party scene for years, and I can say for sure that there has been this gradual shift towards crazy behavior. It kind of bothers me when other people glorify it or normalize it.

 

I just kind of noticed they are making FWB movies now.

 

As an institution... I think marriage needs to be overhauled, because I just see a lot of people my age wanting to avoid it. Seems to always just turn into a total disaster, so it's pushing people into alternate style relationships.

 

Just because it might be interesting in this context, I will tell you that I was not sexually "free" even within that environment. I was a virgin! I had made a decision to remain a virgin until I was over 18 years old and absolutely seriously in love, witch I stuck to. I had lots of guys trying to get in my pants, and some of them tried to "trick" me, but I did not go for it, ever.

I'm not going to judge all men by the creepy ones I've known.

Me too. And we can have that.

I'm not going to agree with that. The participants are volunteers. If somebody is taken advantage of by a dishonest person, I have a lot of sympathy and empathy for them ... but it's up to them to take care of themselves, get out of the situation and avoid similar ones going forward.

 

I would say that was a good choice for you, and sticking to it shows that your not naive. Doing things like that I believe increases your self esteem, because you value yourself and your relationships.

 

Don't get me wrong. I'm very aware that this type of behavior is displayed by a fairly small portion of the female population. The guys and gals out there with mental issues will always be there.

 

Look, the fact is that at this point in time... there are not a lot of people in the dating scene who are trustworthy. There is no way to tell who is a fraud and who is not without sticking your neck out. What Sans seems to be talking about for example is something I've seen as fairly common. Especially with internet daters... and lets be honest it goes for both genders.

 

Sanscrit might be speaking only about women on this thread... but men are just as complicit in this type of behavior. There is no real effective way to screen these type of people out either... you HAVE to invest time and money into them to figure it out.

[impz]

If you are into logical flaws, maybe google "straw man." The above quote from you is about a bale full.

 

Humans learn most of what they learn through inductive reasoning, as opposed to deductive syllogisms. How many observations leads to a "valid" generalization? Can be 1 actually. "I saw a three legged dog. All dogs have only three legs." Perfectly valid because the truth values line up. "I saw a four legged dog. All dogs have only three legs." Invalid. Truth values don't line up.

 

Soundness is another matter in inductive reasoning, and much more tricky. 1 observation usually isn't enough. 100 may be, if the topic is dating experiences.

 

The generalizations I have made are valid and arguably sound. If you don't think they are valid, tough, they are by definition. If you don't think they are sound, that's your prerogative, but try to do better than spouting out a straw laden string of things I never posted if you want to try to refute them convincingly.

 

Btw, I was never talking about you. I was being "sarcastic" too by pointing out the straw men argument. I thought the blatant attempt at it should be obvious but I forgot it is a forum. I am just pointing out some of the really "biased" forum posters on their straw man argument.

[xpaperxcutx]

Sanscrit might be speaking only about women on this thread... but men are just as complicit in this type of behavior. There is no real effective way to screen these type of people out either... you HAVE to invest time and money into them to figure it out.[/QUO nTE]

 

What women? I'm not aware of anyone who has admitted that they slept with two men on the same night. Wasn't this thread about the " generalization" of women?

 

 

And yes, if you don't condone the casual promiscuous behavior of others, it's important to screen them out. Be selective ( and this is not about dating being hard for men- stop randomly settling for any girl because she's pretty, be wary of their characters and personality). You also have a choice to choose how much you're willing to invest. Certainly no women would expect you to spend hundreds of dollars on them, those who do are after something else entirely; and for you to willingly invest that amount just makes you gullible.

 

Time is important for everyone. If she reciprocates by spending time with you, that's golden. If she flakes, then you walk. No one's going to barricade you from leaving.

Edited November 18, 2010 by xpaperxcutx