I'm a Moron.

[InternationalPlayboy]

The dull backstory: My family and I moved across the country from my Hometown to a New City over the summer. Due to business and family relationships, we're still attached to my Hometown and have to visit periodically. This past weekend, I made a return visit to tie up some business and see some friends.

 

The dilemma: About a week before my return visit, I e-mailed our old neighbor - a woman I've written about before in a previous thread. She and her family lived a few doors down from us and our children played often. Although my wife and I certainly get along with these neighbors, there is no doubt the meat of the friendship is between the other wife and I. My wife is aware of this is not bothered. And the same goes for the other husband. Though we're no longer neighbors, the wife and I have remained in contact via e-mail and Facebook. All with my wife's knowledge and (I believe) her husband's knowledge. The correspondence has been entirely PG-rated - nothing I would hesitate to show my wife if she asked. In a nutshell, we get along very well with similar interests, humor and background. Were she a man, this wouldn't even remotely be an issue.

 

So I e-mailed her and asked if her or her husband could pick me up at the airport. Ordinarily, I would have relied upon public transportation rather than put someone out like that. Not to mention, I know 100 other people that would have gladly picked me up as well. But I knowingly asked her for a ride because I knew this would guarantee I would at least get to see her during my short visit.

 

She replied quickly and said she would "love to" pick me up at the airport and offered to take me back to their house for lunch with her husband.

 

And that is exactly how it happened, she picked me up. We chitchatted in the car and went back to her place and the three of us had lunch together. It was great. A few hours later, she offered to drive me to where I needed to go while her husband hung back with their kids.

 

On the car ride - and after she'd had a few drinks - she said "There have been so many times where I've just thought or said out loud even 'Jeez I wish International Playboy was here.' I've really missed having you around."

 

I let that sit in the air for a bit - it felt weird like one of us stepped an inch too far. I thought briefly about saying something similar, thereby escalating things, because without a doubt I've missed her as well. But I changed the subject to something incredibly mundane. After I got out, she gave me a big but awkward hug and I was on my way.

 

Suffice to say, I've run this entire thing over and over again in my head ever since. She e-mailed me later as I was on my way out of town and just stated that it was great to see me, etc. Harmless stuff.

 

In my previous thread, I questioned whether I actually had a crush on this woman. Now I think there is no question. But I would never, ever jeopardize her marriage or mine and I know she is smart enough and strong willed enough to feel the same.

 

But it just sucks because she really, really makes me happy.

 

So there you go.

[climbergirl]

I think that's cool to vent, but here is the thing...

 

I'm sure that you and your wife have plenty of things in common, just like you and your friend. But this "friend" makes you happy only because you can just concentrate on these common interests w/o having to deal with daily minutiae.

 

Turn it around. Say you were married to this 'friend' and you met your wife and acquired her as a friend...do you think it would be any different?

[NoLongerSad]

On the car ride - and after she'd had a few drinks

 

 

Yes this showed extremely poor judgment on your part and on her part.

 

She should not have been driving after a "few drinks" because she could have been impaired or intoxicated, increasing the risk of a traffic violation, accident, or even an arrest for DUI/DWI.

 

Let's forget about the obviously stupid flirtation/Emotional Affair aspect of your relationship, you and she both knew exactly what you were doing by this little flirtation, and if you keep it up no doubt it could get physical one day.

 

Focus instead on the stupidity that both of you showed by letting her drive under the influence of alcohol, even if not legally "drunk." You endangered both your lives as well as the lives of other motorists.

 

How selfish is that?

 

No one really give's a rat's rear end about your jr. high school flirtations, that only affects yourself/herself and your respective families; it's entirely up to you if you want to destroy your own life.

 

However when you get in a car with an impaired or drunk driver then you potentially threaten the lives of other people.

 

Grow up, please, for the love of God.

 

 

But I would never, ever jeopardize her marriage or mine and I know she is smart enough and strong willed enough to feel the same.

 

 

Obviously, you have already done that; and it's been going on for quite some time, hasn't it?

Edited November 17, 2010 by NoLongerSad

[InternationalPlayboy]

On the car ride - and after she'd had a few drinks

 

 

Yes this showed extremely poor judgment on your part and on her part.

 

She should not have been driving after a "few drinks" because she could have been impaired or intoxicated, increasing the risk of a traffic violation, accident, or even an arrest for DUI/DWI.

 

Let's forget about the obviously stupid flirtation/Emotional Affair aspect of your relationship, you and she both knew exactly what you were doing by this little flirtation, and if you keep it up no doubt it could get physical one day.

 

Focus instead on the stupidity that both of you showed by letting her drive under the influence of alcohol, even if not legally "drunk." You endangered both your lives as well as the lives of other motorists.

 

How selfish is that?

 

No one really give's a rat's rear end about your jr. high school flirtations, that only affects yourself/herself and your respective families; it's entirely up to you if you want to destroy your own life.

 

However when you get in a car with an impaired or drunk driver then you potentially threaten the lives of other people.

 

Grow up, please, for the love of God.

 

 

But I would never, ever jeopardize her marriage or mine and I know she is smart enough and strong willed enough to feel the same.

 

 

Obviously, you have already done that; and it's been going on for quite some time, hasn't it?

 

Well said. Thanks.

[quankanne]

I would never, ever jeopardize her marriage or mine and I know she is smart enough and strong willed enough to feel the same.

 

But it just sucks because she really, really makes me happy.

 

what exactly is it that you want from life? If this woman makes you really, really happy, then what the hell are you doing wasting the time of the chick you're married to? Because goodness knows, she deserves more than being stuck married to some jackass who can't appreciate her.

 

and if you want your wife, why are you even wasting time thinking about the other person? Crushes I get, it's a normal thing even when you're married, but at some point, reality kicks in and your tell yourself it's just a meaningless crush that isn't worth pouring energy into thinking about because you're married.

 

or is it a case of the grass appearing greener on the other side of the fence, and you're too busy gazing at it to deal with reality? Decide what you want, and then act accordingly. There are too many lives at stake to be playing these kinds of mind games with yourself, and frankly, you should be mature enough to know the boundaries entailed with a serious relationship.

 

sheesh, man ...

[InternationalPlayboy]

This only a point of clarification and not intended to excuse her or our actions in any way: She had 1.5 beers with lunch in three hours. I had two.

[Snowflower]

Aaahhh! I almost can't read these types of threads. It's like watching a trainwreck in slo-mo.

 

OP, I don't think there will be anything any of us can do to stop you from this destructive path you've chosen. The only factor I can see that might mitigate is the fact that there is geographical distance between you and this "friend."

 

As a fBS, I often respond to threads on LS about trusting my husband again. I always say I have lost my naivete, which is a good thing because I would never ignore a situation such as this. Your wife and her husband have that naivete and blind trust that all spouses have who have not been touched by infidelity. Those of us who are street-wise can see what is happening, even if your poor unfortunate spouses cannot.

 

I KNOW you won't listen to me or any of us but I offer two suggestions in hopes that you will listen:

 

1. Tell your wife about your attraction you have for this friend. Since the four of you no longer live in close proximity you have no worry that there will be "awkwardness" when you are together. You could tell her (your wife) face to face, print out your opening post on this thread, or write her a letter. One of the best ways to diffuse the attraction and make your marriage stronger is to discuss these attractions with your spouse. Hey, we're human...we'll be attracted to others. It happens. Now handle it a prudent manner and strengthen your marriage.

 

Tell your wife ASAP. If you won't do this, you had better ask yourself why not.

 

2. Read that book, Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass. You will see your situation in that book. I'm not one for self-help books, but that one is really good.

 

My .02

[InternationalPlayboy]

Crushes I get, it's a normal thing even when you're married, but at some point, reality kicks in and your tell yourself it's just a meaningless crush that isn't worth pouring energy into thinking about because you're married.

 

I believe I'm just waiting for reality to kick in, like you said. It is a crush, no doubt, and perfectly normal as you stated. But while waiting for reality to kick in, I've typed this up to get it off my chest.

[InternationalPlayboy]

I think that's cool to vent, but here is the thing...

 

I'm sure that you and your wife have plenty of things in common, just like you and your friend. But this "friend" makes you happy only because you can just concentrate on these common interests w/o having to deal with daily minutiae.

 

Turn it around. Say you were married to this 'friend' and you met your wife and acquired her as a friend...do you think it would be any different?

 

This is exactly what I keep telling myself and hope it continues to work.

[xxoo]

What is the "dilemma"?

 

You didn't recognize the crush earlier. Now you do. Good. Now that you recognize it, you can be super-aware of your boundaries.

 

Having a crush on someone other than your spouse is a normal human experience. It doesn't feel great, but it isn't tragic in an of itself. Consider it a reminder to invest in your own relationship--spend more time together, have more fun together, etc. If your own relationship has serious issues, a crush can be a good motivator to get some help fixing the relationship, or getting out of it.

 

Do you think you could tell your wife about your unexpected feelings? H and I talk about this kind of stuff when it comes up. It isn't a big deal between us, but I understand that this is a "minefield" for some other couples. But it really helps us to just acknowledge it openly and laugh about it. The crush seems to diminish just by being spoken openly.

 

And, yeah, what is with her driving after a few drinks?

[xpaperxcutx]

Just curious, why did you use International Playboy as your screenname?

 

I'm not going to deny that there are temptations everywhere, but your friendship with this woman just seems really inaproppriate.

[InternationalPlayboy]

Aaahhh! I almost can't read these types of threads. It's like watching a trainwreck in slo-mo.

 

OP, I don't think there will be anything any of us can do to stop you from this destructive path you've chosen. The only factor I can see that might mitigate is the fact that there is geographical distance between you and this "friend."

 

As a fBS, I often respond to threads on LS about trusting my husband again. I always say I have lost my naivete, which is a good thing because I would never ignore a situation such as this. Your wife and her husband have that naivete and blind trust that all spouses have who have not been touched by infidelity. Those of us who are street-wise can see what is happening, even if your poor unfortunate spouses cannot.

 

I KNOW you won't listen to me or any of us but I offer two suggestions in hopes that you will listen:

 

1. Tell your wife about your attraction you have for this friend. Since the four of you no longer live in close proximity you have no worry that there will be "awkwardness" when you are together. You could tell her (your wife) face to face, print out your opening post on this thread, or write her a letter. One of the best ways to diffuse the attraction and make your marriage stronger is to discuss these attractions with your spouse. Hey, we're human...we'll be attracted to others. It happens. Now handle it a prudent manner and strengthen your marriage.

 

Tell your wife ASAP. If you won't do this, you had better ask yourself why not.

 

2. Read that book, Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass. You will see your situation in that book. I'm not one for self-help books, but that one is really good.

 

My .02

 

Thanks for the book suggestion, I'll look for it on Amazon. My wife knows the gist of everything in the original post - what was said in the car etc. I saw no need to keep it from her. What she doesn't know, and which I should explain to her per your advice, is how I've replayed the scenario in my mind repeatedly since then. Thanks for your 0.02.

[InternationalPlayboy]

What is the "dilemma"?

 

You didn't recognize the crush earlier. Now you do. Good. Now that you recognize it, you can be super-aware of your boundaries.

 

Having a crush on someone other than your spouse is a normal human experience. It doesn't feel great, but it isn't tragic in an of itself. Consider it a reminder to invest in your own relationship--spend more time together, have more fun together, etc. If your own relationship has serious issues, a crush can be a good motivator to get some help fixing the relationship, or getting out of it.

 

Do you think you could tell your wife about your unexpected feelings? H and I talk about this kind of stuff when it comes up. It isn't a big deal between us, but I understand that this is a "minefield" for some other couples. But it really helps us to just acknowledge it openly and laugh about it. The crush seems to diminish just by being spoken openly.

 

And, yeah, what is with her driving after a few drinks?

 

Agreed - you always offer solid, reasonable advice. My wife had some jealousy issues early in our relationship. As we aged and matured, those largely dropped away - she's learned I'm not a total sleeze (or at least she doesn't think so) and I've learned not let my eyes bug out when I see an attractive woman. Had this friendship developed early in our relationship there is no doubt my wife would not approve. But back then she barely even approved of me having guy friends.

 

As for the drinking, I should have clarified in the original post. She had 1.5 beers over 3 hours and lunch. I had two. There is no way either of us were drunk or blitzed or whatever the kids call it these days. Not that this is any excuse for our actions, simply a clarification.

[InternationalPlayboy]

Just curious, why did you use International Playboy as your screenname?

 

I'm not going to deny that there are temptations everywhere, but your friendship with this woman just seems really inaproppriate.

 

The International Playboy screen name is stolen from a song and not meant to be a reflection on me in anyway. I just thought it sounded funny.

 

I hate people who answer questions with questions, but just out of curiosity what is an appropriate friendship between married people of the opposite sex? I believe up to this point the other woman and I have been as appropriate as can be reasonably expected - my spouse knows about all our discussions and correspondence etc as does hers. Certainly, there are grey areas, but I like to believe married people of the opposite sex can be friends. But sometimes I wonder if that's so easy.

[climbergirl]

The International Playboy screen name is stolen from a song and not meant to be a reflection on me in anyway. I just thought it sounded funny.

 

I hate people who answer questions with questions, but just out of curiosity what is an appropriate friendship between married people of the opposite sex? I believe up to this point the other woman and I have been as appropriate as can be reasonably expected - my spouse knows about all our discussions and correspondence etc as does hers. Certainly, there are grey areas, but I like to believe married people of the opposite sex can be friends. But sometimes I wonder if that's so easy.

 

 

But you have--mentally--crossed the boundary from friendship to something else.

 

I doubt you replay scenario's over and over after hanging out with your male friends.

 

I think you know that the relationship with this woman is no longer just a friendship.

[quankanne]

the friendships can work, but you've definitely got to cut out all feelings of sexual attraction to that person – kinda like make them a member of the family you care dearly for, but would no way in hell even consider thinking about them romantically because it's just too freaky.

[InternationalPlayboy]

the friendships can work, but you've definitely got to cut out all feelings of sexual attraction to that person – kinda like make them a member of the family you care dearly for, but would no way in hell even consider thinking about them romantically because it's just too freaky.

 

Hey - I don't know about you, but I have some hotttt cousins.

 

I'm kidding, of course.

 

I hear what you are saying and you are totally right. Damnit.

[xpaperxcutx]

The International Playboy screen name is stolen from a song and not meant to be a reflection on me in anyway. I just thought it sounded funny.

I hate people who answer questions with questions, but just out of curiosity what is an appropriate friendship between married people of the opposite sex? I believe up to this point the other woman and I have been as appropriate as can be reasonably expected - my spouse knows about all our discussions and correspondence etc as does hers. Certainly, there are grey areas, but I like to believe married people of the opposite sex can be friends. But sometimes I wonder if that's so easy.

 

I don't disapprove of friendship between genders but there should be a boundary, especially when you're married. Your actions shouldn't just come down to spousal approval but how well you yourself see your actions. Afterall, there is a difference between being friendly and then going beyond seeing each other occasionally to communicating long distance. If you already admit to there being grey areas, then there's certainly some line you crossed without realizing- like an emotional boundary as climbergirl has stated.

 

the friendships can work, but you've definitely got to cut out all feelings of sexual attraction to that person – kinda like make them a member of the family you care dearly for, but would no way in hell even consider thinking about them romantically because it's just too freaky.

 

There was a thread on the family section recently about a guy who confronted his stepsister of her bullying behaviour towards him, only to find out she had feeling for him. Yeah, family boundaries can go so far when you're not even blood related.

 

If there is sexual attention, all the more to place restrictions between oneself and the other party.

[Snowflower]

Thanks for the book suggestion, I'll look for it on Amazon. My wife knows the gist of everything in the original post - what was said in the car etc. I saw no need to keep it from her. What she doesn't know, and which I should explain to her per your advice, is how I've replayed the scenario in my mind repeatedly since then. Thanks for your 0.02.

 

Great! That book will hopefully help you see your situation from a more objective standpoint. And I was going to feel a little better about what you were posting because you seem aware of what is going on but then I read this...

 

 

I hate people who answer questions with questions, but just out of curiosity what is an appropriate friendship between married people of the opposite sex? I believe up to this point the other woman and I have been as appropriate as can be reasonably expected - my spouse knows about all our discussions and correspondence etc as does hers. Certainly, there are grey areas, but I like to believe married people of the opposite sex can be friends. But sometimes I wonder if that's so easy.

 

Please be careful...you are questioning and possibly rationalizing your reactions to this person. The "grey areas" part that you mention has me concerned. In your OP, you mentioned that you felt something changed or inched forward when she admitted that she wished you were around to talk to.

 

A boundary has been crossed between the two of you...be aware of that feeling you had after that conversation. It's your instincts warning you that things are getting more intimate between the two of you.

 

Again, that book will hopefully explain it well. I hope your wife reads it too.

[InternationalPlayboy]

I don't disapprove of friendship between genders but there should be a boundary, especially when you're married. Your actions shouldn't just come down to spousal approval but how well you yourself see your actions. Afterall, there is a difference between being friendly and then going beyond seeing each other occasionally to communicating long distance. If you already admit to there being grey areas, then there's certainly some line you crossed without realizing- like an emotional boundary as climbergirl has stated.

 

 

 

There was a thread on the family section recently about a guy who confronted his stepsister of her bullying behaviour towards him, only to find out she had feeling for him. Yeah, family boundaries can go so far when you're not even blood related.

 

If there is sexual attention, all the more to place restrictions between oneself and the other party.

 

The grey areas are: Replaying the scenario over and over in my head and the occasional filthy thoughts that enter my mind when she's near. For all I know - as we've never discussed or hinted at anything like this before - the other wife is completely oblivious to these grey areas. She in fact may not have any grey areas. And frankly I'd prefer it stays that way.

 

As for the family boundaries issue you saw on the other thread and section: Eeeek!

[InternationalPlayboy]

Great! That book will hopefully help you see your situation from a more objective standpoint. And I was going to feel a little better about what you were posting because you seem aware of what is going on but then I read this...

 

 

 

Please be careful...you are questioning and possibly rationalizing your reactions to this person. The "grey areas" part that you mention has me concerned. In your OP, you mentioned that you felt something changed or inched forward when she admitted that she wished you were around to talk to.

 

A boundary has been crossed between the two of you...be aware of that feeling you had after that conversation. It's your instincts warning you that things are getting more intimate between the two of you.

 

Again, that book will hopefully explain it well. I hope your wife reads it too.

 

Thanks! I think I am hyper-sensitive to this, because if I was mindless and following my passions I would have gotten into tons of trouble years before any of this. It is my nature to at least try to look at things logically and foresee consequences. I'm not always successful, but I try.

 

If indeed a boundary was crossed as you said, I at least had the good sense to jump in the opposite direction.

[quankanne]

There was a thread on the family section recently about a guy who confronted his stepsister of her bullying behaviour towards him, only to find out she had feeling for him. Yeah, family boundaries can go so far when you're not even blood related. I think that case is probably the exception rather than the rule. Unless you're like IP with the really hawt cousins :D:D

[Snowflower]

Thanks! I think I am hyper-sensitive to this, because if I was mindless and following my passions I would have gotten into tons of trouble years before any of this. It is my nature to at least try to look at things logically and foresee consequences. I'm not always successful, but I try.

 

If indeed a boundary was crossed as you said, I at least had the good sense to jump in the opposite direction.

 

Well then I sincerely hope you dodge this bullet as well. And I realize you're just venting and putting your thoughts out there for us to read and analyze.

 

You seem to have self-awareness and that will keep you strong. Many people who delve into affairs do not have this type of self-awareness. I know my husband did not at the time he started his affair. He has it now though, although painfully gained.

 

What about your friend? Do you think she is aware of her role and feelings in this? Since you've been back from your trip to your hometown, did she mention anything about that conversation in the car or the sense that something had moved forward between the two of you? Or was it glossed over in your conversations? You don't have to answer these questions here-just food for thought.

[goingstrong]

IP,

 

1. You or her were not drunk legally or otherwise, so ignore the bashing.

2. Don't over analyze it, if you keep it up, you will end up doing her..period.

3. Get the F*** off of facebook.

[secretlady76]

You may well move over to Other Man/Other Woman section and read the 100s and 100s of stories that start off exactly the same way as this....and also the heart ache that is felt by pretty much everyone when the affair comes crashing down around your ears.....