pureinheart Posted November 25, 2010 Posted November 25, 2010 Most of us outgrew it when we left high school though, even in our imperfection. You took my reply completely out of context. The point was is we are all going to fall or keep falling short during the course of our lives, if you do not agree with that then you have achieved perfection, and in that case that is a good thing.
bentnotbroken Posted November 25, 2010 Posted November 25, 2010 You took my reply completely out of context. The point was is we are all going to fall or keep falling short during the course of our lives, if you do not agree with that then you have achieved perfection, and in that case that is a good thing. No, I took it within the context of all your posts in total. Perfection is only for the living Savior.
Steadfast Posted November 25, 2010 Posted November 25, 2010 Has the original question been answered? Perhaps, the original question was posed wrong, or people misunderstand what forgiveness actually is. True forgiveness can only be gained if the person in error asks to be forgiven. If someone says "I forgive you" to someone who didn't ask to be forgiven, it's hollow. Better I think, to say "I'm willing/want to forgive." Having a 'spirit' of forgiveness is a different thing entirely. My ex cheated three years ago (divorced two) has has yet to say "Please forgive me". Oh, she's apologized in many other ways (like; "I'm sorry for wrecking everything") but she probably wouldn't have done that if I hadn't emotionally let her off the hook years earlier. That means I let what she did go. From the outside, it probably looked like me forgiving her, but in reality it was all part of the letting go process. It's harder to be angry about something that no longer affects you or your life. Yes, it's a bad memory, but that's all it is now. In effect, I gave all of it back to her. When she was in affair fog and I tried to 'love her out of it', she resented me. When I told her I loved her and wanted our marriage to work, she ran into the arms (and bed) of her lover. But when I stopped trying and moved on, she changed. I still don't get it, but I'm not sure it matters anymore.
pureinheart Posted November 25, 2010 Posted November 25, 2010 Has the original question been answered? Perhaps, the original question was posed wrong, or people misunderstand what forgiveness actually is. True forgiveness can only be gained if the person in error asks to be forgiven. If someone says "I forgive you" to someone who didn't ask to be forgiven, it's hollow. Better I think, to say "I'm willing/want to forgive." Having a 'spirit' of forgiveness is a different thing entirely. My ex cheated three years ago (divorced two) has has yet to say "Please forgive me". Oh, she's apologized in many other ways (like; "I'm sorry for wrecking everything") but she probably wouldn't have done that if I hadn't emotionally let her off the hook years earlier. That means I let what she did go. From the outside, it probably looked like me forgiving her, but in reality it was all part of the letting go process. It's harder to be angry about something that no longer affects you or your life. Yes, it's a bad memory, but that's all it is now. In effect, I gave all of it back to her. When she was in affair fog and I tried to 'love her out of it', she resented me. When I told her I loved her and wanted our marriage to work, she ran into the arms (and bed) of her lover. But when I stopped trying and moved on, she changed. I still don't get it, but I'm not sure it matters anymore. Sometimes people want what they think they can't have...personally SF, I don't get it either. In the case of returning to the S after and A, I would say "asking" for forgiveness is the key and sometimes both parties have to ask the other for forgiveness....in general sometimes people don't/can't ask, so for our ownselves and health we have to forgive anyway....take care SF
pureinheart Posted November 25, 2010 Posted November 25, 2010 Perfection is only for the living Savior. By jove, I think she's got it!
Author East7 Posted November 25, 2010 Author Posted November 25, 2010 Has the original question been answered? Perhaps, the original question was posed wrong, or people misunderstand what forgiveness actually is. True forgiveness can only be gained if the person in error asks to be forgiven. If someone says "I forgive you" to someone who didn't ask to be forgiven, it's hollow. Better I think, to say "I'm willing/want to forgive." Having a 'spirit' of forgiveness is a different thing entirely. My ex cheated three years ago (divorced two) has has yet to say "Please forgive me". Oh, she's apologized in many other ways (like; "I'm sorry for wrecking everything") but she probably wouldn't have done that if I hadn't emotionally let her off the hook years earlier. That means I let what she did go. From the outside, it probably looked like me forgiving her, but in reality it was all part of the letting go process. It's harder to be angry about something that no longer affects you or your life. Yes, it's a bad memory, but that's all it is now. In effect, I gave all of it back to her. Thanks for coming to the original question : A forgiving BS does-it lead WS to think he is weak (consciously or not-consciously). And in my mind it is when the WS is the wife. I think sometimes yes ! WS take it for granted and thinks that the BS is forgiving because he is afraid to divorce or leave. They both have this unsaid need to keep the Status Quo. But then often WS take the forgiveness for granted and this is the most dangerous trap. When she was in affair fog and I tried to 'love her out of it', she resented me. When I told her I loved her and wanted our marriage to work, she ran into the arms (and bed) of her lover. But when I stopped trying and moved on, she changed. I still don't get it, but I'm not sure it matters anymore. This is typical ! Often W who cheat are insecure and needy, they need CONSTANT VALIDATION, if they get validation (being loved) they are done and their interest level drops down. If they don't get validation their insecurity grows and they act like they crave attention. The more you love them, the more they push you away, and the more you stay distant the more she will be chasing you. It has nothing to do with you, it is because of her insecurities.
bentnotbroken Posted November 25, 2010 Posted November 25, 2010 By jove, I think she's got it! I had it from the moment he forgave me. But using I am human as a reason to continue to lie and be a genral butt has more to do with choosing the wrong things instead of human errror. And some folks won't every get that!
U2RockZz Posted November 25, 2010 Posted November 25, 2010 Well, being that we have all lied or cheated to/with something at some point in our lives IMO if the M can work this rule of thumb would apply...none of us are perfect...this is not an excuse, it is the truth:) don't put your words in to my mouth.....there is lot of difference between what you think is cheating and what the thread starter thinks steeling lollipop and steeling some ones life are incomparable.....everybody will die one day yet nobody wants to die in hurry.....if i have one bottle of vodka, i will give you 100 of those lines which really do not have any meaning associated with it ..... there is no point in forgiving somebody plays me for a fool at the expense of my time/money....again i need to invest those two things to exert some kind of retaliation to calm my exasperating feelings....
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