zengirl Posted November 17, 2010 Posted November 17, 2010 Sounds unhealthy? You're a doctor? Whats your field of study? Have you seriously never heard that phrase in common conversation? I meant emotionally unhealthy; I don't think it'll give anyone cancer. I'm a teacher with degrees in Writing, Education, and Psychology at various levels. So, no not a doctor. Just a human being who strives for optimum emotional health and happiness. There's no puting of anyone on any edge. He's just going to do what will make him happy. He should continue to be positive around her and enjoy each other's company. At the same time, he shouldn't put all his eggs in one basket, he should've been continuing to date other women at every opportunity since he even met this girl. Until she claims him or shows him any sign of wanting a committed relationship, he is free to enjoy himself and go on dates with anyone he pleases. He shows interest every time he takes her out, but if she doesn't want seriousness from him (and he clearly is looking for something serious) then he should keep going out with other women until he finds someone that he can be happy with and is willing to committ. What's so unhealthy about that? Going out with someone else to get the person you like to "claim" you is, at best, very high school. At worst, it's pathalogically unhealthy. It's trying to make someone feel a bad emotion so they act the way you want them to; how is that productive and conducive to building a long, trusting relationship. In this case, it also sounds very unnecessary. He could just say, "Hey, I like you, and I don't want to see anyone else" (if that's true, which is what it seems like the case is) like a healthy adult and see how she responds. If she is also a healthy adult and likes him too, she'll say, "Cool, me neither," and they'll be a couple.* *Obviously, exact words may vary. I'm not a psychic either.
that girl Posted November 17, 2010 Posted November 17, 2010 I'm just pointing out that female to male dating advice is extremely suspect. Women are all too different, the majority of women don't even get along with other women these days (I have a lot of female friends who claim this all the time). There also is big holes in what women say they want and what they actually want, it's a stereotype but stereotypes come from somewhere. There are a lot of women who don't understand how to give dating advise on how to date themselves, let alone win over another woman. You have a very warped view of women, most women do get along with each other. And the thing about being a woman is that as a woman, you get to sit in on hundreds of conversations about crushes, how a date went, whether or not she should break up with a guy. Guys are always looking at this stuff from the outside and have a tendency to make all kinds of crazy assumptions. The OP has been dating this girl for months and they spend most weekends together. They've taken a trip together. Either she thinks they are a couple or she is waiting for him to say something. It is unlikely that she is seeing anyone else because he's getting the prime time hours. All he has to do is bring it up. Either she's up for committment or she isn't and from everything he's written she is up for committment. Dating another women would be shooting himself in the foot.
D-Lish Posted November 17, 2010 Posted November 17, 2010 I'd never in a trillion years bring up "the talk". The guy is the one that should bring up "the talk", never the girl. Where did you get your info from????
carhill Posted November 17, 2010 Posted November 17, 2010 Backstory My advice from that thread stands...
sanskrit Posted November 17, 2010 Posted November 17, 2010 After a dating period, I want to see the woman making assertive moves to further the relationship. If she is completely passive, allowing me to do all the contacting, asking out, physical advances, paying, I will -never- ask for exclusivity. It's not game playing, simple common sense. People who want a relationship with someone take proactive steps to get there. People who have the gumption to go for what they want in all areas of life make better partners IME. People who sit back and wait completely passively for good things to come to them don't. Life and relationships can be very challenging without one person having to shoulder all the responsibilities and effort. In most dating, the man has done plenty of proactive pursuit by the time exclusivity becomes an issue, so she needn't make it an express question, but I want to see her at least taking steps in the direction of exclusivity by letting me know she wants that. People value more what they feel a need to strive for, to work for, and if a woman has done no striving or work, IME, she is more likely to undervalue the relationship. In a situation where the woman had done most of the pursuit, contact, asking out, planning dates, had taken more proactive steps, my advice for her to wait until the man broached exclusivity would be the same. Relationships become imbalanced where power and control is concerned when one person seems to be doing all the work, and the other person is sitting back and benefitting without effort. Recipe for fail, so yes, I want to hear the woman bring it up in normal scenarios where I have done most of the work so far. LOL at that being a "bitter" attitude.
ColdFox Posted November 17, 2010 Posted November 17, 2010 There is some very strange information in this thread. I can't remember ever starting "the talk". Since men are so often afraid of commitment, I have always let them be the one to bring it up when they were sure it was what they wanted.
waynebrady Posted November 17, 2010 Posted November 17, 2010 (edited) After a dating period, I want to see the woman making assertive moves to further the relationship. If she is completely passive, allowing me to do all the contacting, asking out, physical advances, paying, I will -never- ask for exclusivity. It's not game playing, simple common sense. People who want a relationship with someone take proactive steps to get there. People who have the gumption to go for what they want in all areas of life make better partners IME. People who sit back and wait completely passively for good things to come to them don't. Life and relationships can be very challenging without one person having to shoulder all the responsibilities and effort. In most dating, the man has done plenty of proactive pursuit by the time exclusivity becomes an issue, so she needn't make it an express question, but I want to see her at least taking steps in the direction of exclusivity by letting me know she wants that. People value more what they feel a need to strive for, to work for, and if a woman has done no striving or work, IME, she is more likely to undervalue the relationship. In a situation where the woman had done most of the pursuit, contact, asking out, planning dates, had taken more proactive steps, my advice for her to wait until the man broached exclusivity would be the same. Relationships become imbalanced where power and control is concerned when one person seems to be doing all the work, and the other person is sitting back and benefitting without effort. Recipe for fail, so yes, I want to hear the woman bring it up in normal scenarios where I have done most of the work so far. LOL at that being a "bitter" attitude. I completley agree with everything in your post. Unfortunatley women are usually completley unwilling to take any initatives or put in any effort what so ever. Their attitude is that the man should do all the contacting, all the work, all the initiating and put in all the effort, that attitude is unlikely to change in our lifetime if at all. Alot of women say that men won't like it if a woman initiates contact even once and that men like() to put in ALL the effort. I honestly don't think the women who say that believes that themselves. It's an excuse by women so they never have to initiate contact or put in any effort. If a man has been doing all the work, always been the one to call, always been the one to set up dates. Then why should he also be obligated to bring up the exlusivity talk? If anything, the woman should bring up "the talk" because if she has never initiated contact or put in any effort then she hasn't showed that she really wants to be with the guy. Why would any man actually WANT a woman who never initiates contact, never puts in any effort or strives to be with him. The only reason women like that still get guys... is because virtually all women are that way so it leaves us men no option. Women who initiates contact and puts in any effort doesn't seem to exist. And I KNOW all the women who reads this will call me a woman hater, whiney boy, bitter, misogynist... Give me a break. Is it really so hard to understand why I think this way, and I'm FAR from being the only man who is annoyed about this. Edited November 17, 2010 by waynebrady
Pyro Posted November 17, 2010 Posted November 17, 2010 for those of you who think that women do nothing I ask you why you would continually go after a woman like that. If a woman never contacted me, never set up a date, etc. then I would assume she is not that interested and I would move on.
sally4sara Posted November 17, 2010 Posted November 17, 2010 When wondering who you should take advise from consider this: Does the person advising me have any success with relationships or do they have no relationship experience and/or bad relationship experience? So this is my advise. Do what you'd want. If it would make you happy to be exclusive with this girl then ask for what would make you happy. If HER asking YOU for exclusivity will make you happy, then wait for her to ask. But you can get some practice asking things in this thread. Why not ask the fellows here advising you to play games if they have a relationship. Or hell! If they've EVER had a relationship AT ALL! You wouldn't listen to a doctor who didn't go through med school would you? Or a lawyer that can't pass the bar exam - right? And if you want to practice playing games instead - look up the posting history of these fellas telling you to play games and see what you find about their own game playing success. I bet you'll find reasons to get dating advise from others.
sfl Posted November 17, 2010 Posted November 17, 2010 I'd just come out and ask her, I'd ****ing hate if I was seeing someone for 3 months and she was dating (and probably sleeping with) other people. If she doesn't want exclusivity after that long I'd move onto someone else, but that's just me. You mentioned before you get quite jealous and frankly I don't blame you. That's the kind of thing I'd maybe accept 3 weeks in, but not 3 months, but I am kinda lame about these things... (luckily so is my girlfriend!)
GivenUp0083 Posted November 17, 2010 Posted November 17, 2010 Have you seriously never heard that phrase in common conversation? I meant emotionally unhealthy; I don't think it'll give anyone cancer. I'm a teacher with degrees in Writing, Education, and Psychology at various levels. So, no not a doctor. Just a human being who strives for optimum emotional health and happiness. I have heard it, but if you're a teacher, how do you not realize that there are mental health doctors as well? I asked if you were a doctor, why is that limited for physical health and cancer? Going out with someone else to get the person you like to "claim" you is, at best, very high school. At worst, it's pathalogically unhealthy. It's trying to make someone feel a bad emotion so they act the way you want them to; how is that productive and conducive to building a long, trusting relationship. He isn't going out with other girls to get a SINGLE girl to like him. He's going out with other girls because he enjoys the company of people and he's a fun guy to be around. He has no idea how the first girl feels about him, so why should he put all his eggs in one basket. I think it's very high school to devote yourself to only spending time with one person where not committment has been established when the woman of his dreams could be crossing his path one day. If the first girl doesn't have interest then that's fine, at least he'll figure it out, but at the same time he won't feel as bad if it ends because he has other options. In this case, it also sounds very unnecessary. He could just say, "Hey, I like you, and I don't want to see anyone else" (if that's true, which is what it seems like the case is) like a healthy adult and see how she responds. If she is also a healthy adult and likes him too, she'll say, "Cool, me neither," and they'll be a couple.* Sure he can say that, and then watch her lose all interest because she'll no longer see him as a challenge. OP: go ahead, say that to her, let me know how that turns out. *Obviously, exact words may vary. I'm not a psychic either. You have a very warped view of women, most women do get along with each other. Disagree And the thing about being a woman is that as a woman, you get to sit in on hundreds of conversations about crushes, how a date went, whether or not she should break up with a guy. Agree totally. Despite all this information women gather, they still initiate over half of divorces in america. Guys are always looking at this stuff from the outside and have a tendency to make all kinds of crazy assumptions. Girls over analyze like no other, they've all admitted it to me. But let's just agree that men and women view things differently. The OP has been dating this girl for months and they spend most weekends together. They've taken a trip together. Either she thinks they are a couple or she is waiting for him to say something. It is unlikely that she is seeing anyone else because he's getting the prime time hours. Is it so unlikely? Maybe she is seeing someone else during the week. I know when I start dating most girls they prefer week nights and like their weekends to themselves for other thing. But saying it's unlikely is misinformed and naive, it's very possible. If they were having a wonderful time and the possibility that SHE thinks they're a couple was true, then why would he be questioning the relationship? OP: You posted this because your gut is telling you something, and you're gut is almost 100% right. Not just dating, but in other aspects of life. All he has to do is bring it up. Either she's up for committment or she isn't and from everything he's written she is up for committment. I'll say again, watch him bring it up, and watch her fade away. Or he can be a little bit of a challenge for once and it'll either cause her to not put in the effort due to lack of interest, or it'll help her realize how much she really likes him. He owes her NOTHING in terms of committment if she hasn't shown signs of it on her end. Spending weekends together and going on a trip doesn't mean she's committed. Dating another women would be shooting himself in the foot. No, it's his right and his choice. He can do what he wants until he's in a committed relationship. What's keeping her from calling him tomorrow and saying "I met someone else, this isn't going to work out"? Nothing, she could be seeing someone else as well, or thinking about someone and she's waiting for it to pan out before she drops him. I hope you women are right for his sake because it sounds like he likes her, but he doesn't owe her anything and he has a right to date other women at this stage if he wants to. And he should, because as he gets older it'll be tougher to find dates with quality women. and I'm spent....
sanskrit Posted November 18, 2010 Posted November 18, 2010 Unfortunatley women are usually completley unwilling to take any initatives or put in any effort what so ever. Waynebrady, have seen you post this many times, and used to feel the same way. What I realized is that I wasn't giving them enough cues early on to encourage them to be more proactive. For example, one of my favorite first dates is an offbeat museum or park walk followed by a light brunch on a weekend day (this is the exception to my general rule of early dates being weeknights). It is great to talk about what we just experienced over a couple of small plates. When they offer to pay, I say "this was my treat, if you had fun, ask me out sometime and it can be your treat. I LOVE to be treated and treat," then a big grin. The kind of women I date seem to respond very well to this, and often they ask me out soon after. Another thing is low contact early on. It's human nature to expect a course of behavior to continue through intertia. Men who call and call, text new women constantly, give gifts, shower with attention, etc., have no grounds for complaint when the woman is passive, they have trained her to be. After a good second date, I -may- send -one- flirty text, and have found that this gets most of the women I date in a near "equal contact" mode. No contact otherwise other than to ask out. Could go on and on, but have found that the key to getting women to be more proactive is to let them know you welcome it (they enjoy being assertively led just like dancing), and by giving subtle hints that you -expect- it of them if they want a relationship to result. Get them meeting you at least a third of the way early and they will generally do it. If they don't, they probably aren't into it enough to continue with.
zengirl Posted November 18, 2010 Posted November 18, 2010 I have heard it, but if you're a teacher, how do you not realize that there are mental health doctors as well? I asked if you were a doctor, why is that limited for physical health and cancer? The cancer thing was a tongue-in-cheek comment because I thought your question of whether or not I was a doctor was ridiculous and out of left field. Sorry if you missed that. Being a medical professional has nothing to do with giving dating advice. He isn't going out with other girls to get a SINGLE girl to like him. He's going out with other girls because he enjoys the company of people and he's a fun guy to be around. He has no idea how the first girl feels about him, so why should he put all his eggs in one basket. I think it's very high school to devote yourself to only spending time with one person where not committment has been established when the woman of his dreams could be crossing his path one day. If the first girl doesn't have interest then that's fine, at least he'll figure it out, but at the same time he won't feel as bad if it ends because he has other options. He didn't ask how he could get other girls to hang out with him; he seems interested in this particular girl and even wants to focus on her to the point of exclusivity. She has not done anything that he mentioned to rebuff this idea----only not brought it up herself. The mature thing for him to do would be to bring it up if it would make him happy; the high school thing would be to start seeing other people, passive aggressively, because she hasn't asked for commitment. Sure he can say that, and then watch her lose all interest because she'll no longer see him as a challenge. OP: go ahead, say that to her, let me know how that turns out. Bitter, much? If they are compatible and she has an interest in him, this will not happen. If not, at least he'll know where he stands. Then, he can date other women-----why jump ahead to playing games? That's what's high school. A woman who is interested and emotionally healthy has no desire for her man to be a challenge at the point where he is in this relationship; she probably doesn't want to be smothered, but him saying he's interested in seeing her exclusively shouldn't scare off anyone who isn't immature or disinterested. That's just silly. You sound very bitter here. Men have these bad experiences chasing after women who aren't in any way ready for a relationship (obviously) or don't have much interest in them, beyond getting some attention, and then apply it all wrong. So strange.
waynebrady Posted November 18, 2010 Posted November 18, 2010 Bitter, much? If they are compatible and she has an interest in him, this will not happen. If not, at least he'll know where he stands. Then, he can date other women-----why jump ahead to playing games? That's what's high school. A woman who is interested and emotionally healthy has no desire for her man to be a challenge at the point where he is in this relationship; she probably doesn't want to be smothered, but him saying he's interested in seeing her exclusively shouldn't scare off anyone who isn't immature or disinterested. That's just silly. Do you realise that all that goes both ways? Why is it ok for women to play games? A man who is intrested and emotionally healthy has no desire for his woman to be a challenge. A woman saying she is intrested in seeing a guy exclusivley shouldn't scare off anyone who isn't immature or disintrested... I don't think anyone, man or woman should play games. But in general most women play games and try to be a challenge for the man, few men actually like it. I think Women do it for their own enjoyment not because they want to have a better chance of getting into a relationship with the guy.
waynebrady Posted November 18, 2010 Posted November 18, 2010 for those of you who think that women do nothing I ask you why you would continually go after a woman like that. If a woman never contacted me, never set up a date, etc. then I would assume she is not that interested and I would move on. Then wouldn't you have to "move on" from pretty much every woman you date? Offcourse I would much rather want a woman who takes initiatives, calls me from time to time, sets up dates and so on but that's not gonna happen. It's unrealistic to think it's possible to get a woman like that, men who do have defenitley hit the jackpot I have accepted the fact that women who initiate contact and sets up dates etc etc barely exist, so I got two options either stay alone or accept the fact that if I want a woman then I will have to initiate every contact, set up every date and put in all the effort.
Mme. Chaucer Posted November 18, 2010 Posted November 18, 2010 You got it wrong it's the other way around. Women NEVER initiate "the talk" with me. . There. I fixed it for you. (Props to funny Citizen Erased.)
waynebrady Posted November 18, 2010 Posted November 18, 2010 There. I fixed it for you. (Props to funny Citizen Erased.) The women who says it just me, are usually unwilling to initiate anything with men at all which obviously proves it's not just me. Do you ever initiate contact with men, bring up "the talk", or pursue men? Offcourse you don't. To edit my posts and add the "with me" has been done to death, it's sooooo predictable and un-original.
Pyro Posted November 19, 2010 Posted November 19, 2010 Then wouldn't you have to "move on" from pretty much every woman you date? Offcourse I would much rather want a woman who takes initiatives, calls me from time to time, sets up dates and so on but that's not gonna happen. It's unrealistic to think it's possible to get a woman like that, men who do have defenitley hit the jackpot I have accepted the fact that women who initiate contact and sets up dates etc etc barely exist, so I got two options either stay alone or accept the fact that if I want a woman then I will have to initiate every contact, set up every date and put in all the effort. no because what you believe is wrong. Maybe from the minimal experience that you have and the threads you choose to read on here it is true to you but in the real world women do initiate. As much as men? No, but your view is FAR from reality. Take the time to expand your selection of threads you read on here and ask those who have happy and healthy relationships about if the woman in the relationship took initiative or not.
flashy Posted November 19, 2010 Posted November 19, 2010 I think that the guys in this thread that think he should totaly play the roll go hang with other girls and not have the talk have a point. The problem is that if she really is a good traditional girl this may turn her off. (frankly it wouldn't tur her off) the sad truth is that if she was ever drawn to him she will be further drawn to him and pissed at the same time. Yet if he is still working on her and she hasnt developed anything for him even a meaningful friendship then he could just shut her off. They've hung out a couple tikmes a week for a couple months? hard to say what that means to her. Kind of similar to my situation http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t253979/ Just remeber the girls in here who are telling you to have a talk with her are speaking to you with their heads. It is with their hearts that they react to men with. This is why girls are always telling guys to treat girls nice and then run off with a jerk. (That's an extreme example) Some girls may find what IO just sexest but it is more or less laid out in Men are from Mars women are from Venus as Well. Just take advice from both sides and filter it through yourself. The world is ever changing and so is relationships. I need advice. Everyone needs advice. Everyone needs perspectives from the outside.
tb24 Posted November 19, 2010 Posted November 19, 2010 (edited) I'm a guy and I brought it up with my ex after about 3 weeks. We lasted over two and a half years. However, our situation was different. We were going out twice a week and talking over the phone/IM for several hours a day pretty much every day after we met. Edited November 19, 2010 by tb24
zengirl Posted November 19, 2010 Posted November 19, 2010 Do you realise that all that goes both ways? Why is it ok for women to play games? A man who is intrested and emotionally healthy has no desire for his woman to be a challenge. A woman saying she is intrested in seeing a guy exclusivley shouldn't scare off anyone who isn't immature or disintrested... I don't think anyone, man or woman should play games. But in general most women play games and try to be a challenge for the man, few men actually like it. I think Women do it for their own enjoyment not because they want to have a better chance of getting into a relationship with the guy. I don't advise women to play games either. But waiting to assess a man's behavior isn't really a game; it's just human nature. If a woman feels totally comfortable asking for exclusivity and will not regret it later, she should do so! . . . But most women will regret it later and wish the man had asked her. I've seen women who've done this think about it months or even years later, quite commonly. Most men won't think about it again after it's been settled, and they'll even get a boost of testosterone if they initiate it, which increases their neurological function and chemical happiness levels. Both biochemical reactions in the human brain and socialization cause this to be so. So, advising the woman to wait isn't in order to make the man unhappy or provoke a reaction from him at all but for her own peace of mind. Women should take all iniatives they want so long as they won't regret them later. Then wouldn't you have to "move on" from pretty much every woman you date? Offcourse I would much rather want a woman who takes initiatives, calls me from time to time, sets up dates and so on but that's not gonna happen. It's unrealistic to think it's possible to get a woman like that, men who do have defenitley hit the jackpot I have accepted the fact that women who initiate contact and sets up dates etc etc barely exist, so I got two options either stay alone or accept the fact that if I want a woman then I will have to initiate every contact, set up every date and put in all the effort. I text my boyfriend sometimes and, of course, invite him places NOW that we're together. I never set up dates in the beginning, but I always gave him ideas on our dates, asked him to call me, lots of encouragement, etc. It's only the very beginning stages where a man should have to actively persue. Asking for exclusivity would basically end that stage and move you onto the next stage where almost ALL women will begin initiating, so it's ironic that you are saying you have an issue with that stage.
yoga18 Posted November 19, 2010 Posted November 19, 2010 (edited) After only three months you dont know anything. What is the hurry? The hurry??? I'm not interested in wasting time that's the hurry! 3 months is plenty of time in most cases to know if you want to try and make it work with someone. I'm not interested in dating a guy who doesn't mind going out with other girls.....I don't think so. Besides that it wasn't even relevant to his question. He wanted to know if he could "have the talk" not if it was too soon. Edited November 19, 2010 by yoga18
Author Bogo123 Posted November 19, 2010 Author Posted November 19, 2010 I haven't brought it up yet and I don't plan on it for a while. I'm just gonna let it happen on its own. We started holding hands recently and she also said she isn't having sex with anyone else and asked me if I was doing the same. Maybe that's a hint? We will see
ColdFox Posted November 19, 2010 Posted November 19, 2010 I haven't brought it up yet and I don't plan on it for a while. I'm just gonna let it happen on its own. We started holding hands recently and she also said she isn't having sex with anyone else and asked me if I was doing the same. Maybe that's a hint? We will see Yes, that is definitely a hint and she would not have made it unless she was making an effort to move things along. Probably ignoring it is not the smartest thing to do.
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