WowReally Posted November 15, 2010 Posted November 15, 2010 (edited) That heading should really read "But THEY'LL be different with me" Why do you think those of us who have fallen for the MM/MW think we can change them? Why do we think that they wont be the lying cheating masochists that they are? Food for thought Edited November 15, 2010 by WowReally
pureinheart Posted November 15, 2010 Posted November 15, 2010 That heading should really read "But THEY'LL be different with me" Why do you think those of us who have fallen for the MM/MW think we can change them? Why do we think that they wont be the lying cheating masochists that they are? Food for thought Hey WR, I guess I don't need to ask how your doing? What's up girl, tell us how you really feel...just kidding...no what's up???? You ok????
SoMovinOn Posted November 15, 2010 Posted November 15, 2010 Thinking they will change for you, because they love you so much and you love them so much, is not limited to this situation. It seems pretty typical of most relationships and marriages. It is probably one of the root causes of the high divorce rate (you thought they would change and they didn't). I remember a line from somewhere - something like "Women get upset because they expect their husband to change after they get married, and they don't. Men get upset because they expect their wife to stay the same after they get married, and she doesn't."
spice4life Posted November 15, 2010 Posted November 15, 2010 Thinking they will change for you, because they love you so much and you love them so much, is not limited to this situation. It seems pretty typical of most relationships and marriages. It is probably one of the root causes of the high divorce rate (you thought they would change and they didn't). I remember a line from somewhere - something like "Women get upset because they expect their husband to change after they get married, and they don't. Men get upset because they expect their wife to stay the same after they get married, and she doesn't." I totally agree with you and could never understand why people think this way. People should not get married with the hope that it will solve the relationship problems. if there are problems, they need to be solved first before you get married. If they are not solved then they will only get worse.
Author WowReally Posted November 15, 2010 Author Posted November 15, 2010 Hey WR, I guess I don't need to ask how your doing? What's up girl, tell us how you really feel...just kidding...no what's up???? You ok???? Im just seeing things for what they really are/were...still glad I dont have him full time as it really a bullet that I dodged. He'll never be truly happy due to his masochistic tendencies...he loves the risk that comes with cheating...I guess it adds some excitement to his boring predictable married life.
maravilla Posted November 15, 2010 Posted November 15, 2010 Hi. I was of the 'he won't do it to me' mindset but not really because I thought about it in terms of 'he will change.' Rather I was thinking at first (if I was thinking about it at all at first, LOL, which a lot of the time I wasn't) that there was something wrong with the relationship, not him. Then by listening to his 'complaints' I realized that his wife really wasn't that bad, actually by his own admissions she was a great mother and wife. When I heard about her I thought, wow, she does a lot more for him than I've ever done for any guy, ex., had his kids, stayed at home to raise his kids, helped him through a life-threatening disease, basically made it so that her life revolved around him. So then I thought, well, they must be a bad match, which I do think to some extent they are because he needs adventure and excitement and she is rather boring and routine (which she'd have to be, to accomplish all of the stuff above, which was the ironic thing). She also wasn't very intelligent to put it nicely (I'm not trying to knock her, just give the facts or at least how he told them, or my own perception of things) and they didn't have a lot in common. So I thought well he and I are a better fit and he wouldn't do that to me, but then I thought, hmmm, at one time he was by his own admission madly in love with her, and he married her, and she hasn't really changed that much except for becoming more mature and responsible (which I guess he never did LOL) so now how can he complain about, or even worse, cheat because of the fact that they're not right together? So that left me with the disturbing realization that perhaps he is too demanding, perhaps one woman could never satisfy all his needs. He did expect her life to revolve around him and their kids but then he also wanted adventure and excitement and no dull routines which is the exact opposite. He wanted to go out and drink with me and be wild and crazy yet how could she do that and also be a good mom and role model to their kids? I began to see that his expectations were a bit ridiculous. That maybe he had the problem, not her, because she was just doing what normal adults do when they have kids and grow up, and he was faulting her for nagging at him (really his biggest complaint about her, except he said she was stubborn and couldn't ever admit she was wrong... hmm sounds like him LOL) when really it was him with the issues, not her. When I saw it that way I began to really worry that he would do it to me. Because no matter what I gave him it wasn't enough for him to be with me the right way and no matter what she gave him it wasn't enough for him to be faithful to her. Really there is probably no one thing any one woman could do to keep him happy, he just wants the best of all worlds. So I would rather hold out for the kind of guy who wouldn't cheat no matter what the issues. I know there are people out there and I do think it's a character issue -- some people will cheat if things are going badly (their way of escape I guess) and some will cheat if things are going great (just want more variety or are never happy I guess) and then some won't cheat no matter how great or bad things are because they just aren't wired that way I guess. So why would I want the one who I know is capable of cheating? Especially when things weren't that bad with him and his wife and if they were it was mostly because of his own issues I would think.
Silly_Girl Posted November 15, 2010 Posted November 15, 2010 That heading should really read "But THEY'LL be different with me" Why do you think those of us who have fallen for the MM/MW think we can change them? Why do we think that they wont be the lying cheating masochists that they are? Food for thought Depends on your start point. If your mindset is "anyone who cheats is a scum-sucking a$$wipe" and the only important fact about an individual is whether they are faithful or not... well, what were you doing with them in the first place?! If you see a person who works hard, is kind and helpful to friends who need him - such as when they are very ill, is articulate and witty, who is there for family members when they are going through bad times, who acts with kindness and enthusiam in his life in general, who is understanding and intelligent and ALSO has found himself in a really bad spot, relationship-wise, and has (deliberately/inadvertently) taken a route which involves cheating on his spouse, the potential relationship may have an outlook somewhat different to the one you allude to. In that situation it's unlikely you'd want to 'change him' at all.
Author WowReally Posted November 15, 2010 Author Posted November 15, 2010 The question is pretty straight forward...I know alot of you still have hope so Im sorry if this question bursts your bubble Why do you think they wont be the same masochist that they are with the person they married and refuse to leave?
greengoddess Posted November 15, 2010 Posted November 15, 2010 Hi. I was of the 'he won't do it to me' mindset but not really because I thought about it in terms of 'he will change.' Rather I was thinking at first (if I was thinking about it at all at first, LOL, which a lot of the time I wasn't) that there was something wrong with the relationship, not him. Then by listening to his 'complaints' I realized that his wife really wasn't that bad, actually by his own admissions she was a great mother and wife. When I heard about her I thought, wow, she does a lot more for him than I've ever done for any guy, ex., had his kids, stayed at home to raise his kids, helped him through a life-threatening disease, basically made it so that her life revolved around him. So then I thought, well, they must be a bad match, which I do think to some extent they are because he needs adventure and excitement and she is rather boring and routine (which she'd have to be, to accomplish all of the stuff above, which was the ironic thing). She also wasn't very intelligent to put it nicely (I'm not trying to knock her, just give the facts or at least how he told them, or my own perception of things) and they didn't have a lot in common. So I thought well he and I are a better fit and he wouldn't do that to me, but then I thought, hmmm, at one time he was by his own admission madly in love with her, and he married her, and she hasn't really changed that much except for becoming more mature and responsible (which I guess he never did LOL) so now how can he complain about, or even worse, cheat because of the fact that they're not right together? So that left me with the disturbing realization that perhaps he is too demanding, perhaps one woman could never satisfy all his needs. He did expect her life to revolve around him and their kids but then he also wanted adventure and excitement and no dull routines which is the exact opposite. He wanted to go out and drink with me and be wild and crazy yet how could she do that and also be a good mom and role model to their kids? I began to see that his expectations were a bit ridiculous. That maybe he had the problem, not her, because she was just doing what normal adults do when they have kids and grow up, and he was faulting her for nagging at him (really his biggest complaint about her, except he said she was stubborn and couldn't ever admit she was wrong... hmm sounds like him LOL) when really it was him with the issues, not her. When I saw it that way I began to really worry that he would do it to me. Because no matter what I gave him it wasn't enough for him to be with me the right way and no matter what she gave him it wasn't enough for him to be faithful to her. Really there is probably no one thing any one woman could do to keep him happy, he just wants the best of all worlds. So I would rather hold out for the kind of guy who wouldn't cheat no matter what the issues. I know there are people out there and I do think it's a character issue -- some people will cheat if things are going badly (their way of escape I guess) and some will cheat if things are going great (just want more variety or are never happy I guess) and then some won't cheat no matter how great or bad things are because they just aren't wired that way I guess. So why would I want the one who I know is capable of cheating? Especially when things weren't that bad with him and his wife and if they were it was mostly because of his own issues I would think. Wow what an absolutely perfect and insightful view of the proble. A perfect summation of why many people cheat. They want to have fun!!! and not live the day to day responsibilities of married life so they pretend to be working while the spouse takes care of all the mundane house chores and they get to play and party instead of growing up.
YellowShark Posted November 15, 2010 Posted November 15, 2010 (edited) -- some people will cheat if things are going badly (their way of escape I guess) and some will cheat if things are going great (just want more variety or are never happy I guess) and then some won't cheat no matter how great or bad things are because they just aren't wired that way I guess. So why would I want the one who I know is capable of cheating? That's very wise maravilla. And 100% accurate. How can one settle for a man/woman who is cheating on their significant other? Frankly if they are cheating with you the probability is very high that given the opportunity they will cheat on you as well. It is only in the rare occasions where OM/OW is never going to commit, or become emotionally attached, that dating a married/attached cheater is an optimum scenario. (yet even then, given the opportunity, the cheater will cheat on the OM/OW eventually. Hell, even more so since the non-committed, non-emotionally-attached OM/OW is really only a sex toy. ) Edited November 15, 2010 by YellowShark
Spark1111 Posted November 15, 2010 Posted November 15, 2010 Im just seeing things for what they really are/were...still glad I dont have him full time as it really a bullet that I dodged. He'll never be truly happy due to his masochistic tendencies...he loves the risk that comes with cheating...I guess it adds some excitement to his boring predictable married life. Really good insight here, WR! And if his married life is boring and predictable, he is at least 50% responsible for that! So, had you married him, your M life would have also turned boring and predictable, but rather than have the coping skills necesary to fix it....he will enliven his life by risking cheating again. This is hitting the nail on the head. Be proud of yourself.
Spark1111 Posted November 15, 2010 Posted November 15, 2010 The question is pretty straight forward...I know alot of you still have hope so Im sorry if this question bursts your bubble Why do you think they wont be the same masochist that they are with the person they married and refuse to leave? Because: A) Their partner and their marriage is truly not as bad as they portray, or B) They avoid conflict and/or lack the communication or coping skills, or C) They need external diversions from their inner unhappiness, because D) It is everyone else's fault that they are unhappy, never their own.
BB07 Posted November 15, 2010 Posted November 15, 2010 Because sometimes we as the OW/OM lie and fool ourselves. Disclaimer.......of course not all situations are the same but a lot of them are or at least the stuff that counts anyway.
East7 Posted November 15, 2010 Posted November 15, 2010 That heading should really read "But THEY'LL be different with me" Why do you think those of us who have fallen for the MM/MW think we can change them? Why do we think that they wont be the lying cheating masochists that they are? Food for thought I don't think that a cheater once will necessarily cheat another time, it depends on the reason/circumstances they have been cheating. Even when they stay in the M and try to reconcile with spouses, they don't necessarily do it again. It is not accurate to generalize. To the question: why do you think they would be different with you? I would answer : No they don't change. It is all about accepting the person with their qualities and flaws. What you see is what you get. In the A sometimes we see the deepest weaknesses of the MW/MM and often we are reported the way things go at home. Then you try to picture what would be your life with fMM/fMW and you either accept it or not. Some AP naively think their life with the MP would be all bliss and sparks but in reality in all the relationships the passion vanishes after a while.
endlessness Posted November 15, 2010 Posted November 15, 2010 D) It is everyone else's fault that they are unhappy, never their own. sounds like someone I know
Lizzie60 Posted November 15, 2010 Posted November 15, 2010 That heading should really read "But THEY'LL be different with me" Why do you think those of us who have fallen for the MM/MW think we can change them? Why do we think that they wont be the lying cheating masochists that they are? Food for thought Because, in my case, I was the OW for 11 years BEFORE he moved with me.. When he moved.. I set the cards on the table.. and told him the RULES.. if he didn't abide.. he was out.. and he did.. for 18 years.. he did changed.. he didn't do to ME what he did to HER... and he knew I was very serious about kicking him to the curb if the did anything.. I very much doubt he did anything.. but again.. no one can be 100% sure.
phillyfan Posted November 15, 2010 Posted November 15, 2010 That heading should really read "But THEY'LL be different with me" Why do you think those of us who have fallen for the MM/MW think we can change them? Why do we think that they wont be the lying cheating masochists that they are? Food for thought Oh man, I know why, these dudes have LINES, I just started a thread and some posters gave great answers. They charm their ASSES off. It is crazy. I bet they promise ANYTHING. I remember my mom once said they promise u sugar but give u salt (cant remember about who but whatever, good quote LOL), sounds like these guys.
maravilla Posted November 15, 2010 Posted November 15, 2010 Sometimes I think the appeal is really intense because it doesn't compare to a normal relationship. MMs have a lot of reasons to make you feel special and dote on you. From the beginning MM was very vocal about how into me he was and how much he wanted me and what he loved about me etc. Now I realize I shouldn't fall for that crap because it could obviously be empty words, or motivated by the wrong reasons, and real love comes about more slowly and naturally. But at the time it was very intoxicating and even now when I start to talk to a guy or slowly date him I get impatient or dissatisfied, like, MM would be saying this, or whatever... it just doesn't compare and I know the reasons behind it logically but I think it will take some time for it to sink in emotionally. Another thing is that the sex with MM was great, he was all about me and I realize he had great motivation to do this as well but then when I compare it to other boyfriends I've had it seems like they have no motivation to try to please me and I get worried that I will never have it like that again. Sorry to be blunt but these are some of my reasons I thought he was different with me, in that, I thought he was totally in love and passionate about me and I am, but once reality set in I realized it was all smoke and mirrors.
myname Posted November 15, 2010 Posted November 15, 2010 Sometimes I think the appeal is really intense because it doesn't compare to a normal relationship. MMs have a lot of reasons to make you feel special and dote on you. From the beginning MM was very vocal about how into me he was and how much he wanted me and what he loved about me etc. Now I realize I shouldn't fall for that crap because it could obviously be empty words, or motivated by the wrong reasons, and real love comes about more slowly and naturally. But at the time it was very intoxicating and even now when I start to talk to a guy or slowly date him I get impatient or dissatisfied, like, MM would be saying this, or whatever... it just doesn't compare and I know the reasons behind it logically but I think it will take some time for it to sink in emotionally. Another thing is that the sex with MM was great, he was all about me and I realize he had great motivation to do this as well but then when I compare it to other boyfriends I've had it seems like they have no motivation to try to please me and I get worried that I will never have it like that again. Sorry to be blunt but these are some of my reasons I thought he was different with me, in that, I thought he was totally in love and passionate about me and I am, but once reality set in I realized it was all smoke and mirrors. yes, for me it was very intoxicating too, he seemed full of love for me (now seems more like he was just full of ****), was very affectionate, went out of his way to see me, talked endlessly with me and appeared to really listen and be interested in me, was always saying what he liked about me, admiring of me, and with the sex again was very loving, attentive, wanting to please me very much, spending lots of time on foreplay and lots of time afterwards stroking me and kissing me and talking nicely to me. Sometimes I feel like a real idiot to have been played so completely.
maravilla Posted November 15, 2010 Posted November 15, 2010 yes, for me it was very intoxicating too, he seemed full of love for me (now seems more like he was just full of ****), was very affectionate, went out of his way to see me, talked endlessly with me and appeared to really listen and be interested in me, was always saying what he liked about me, admiring of me, and with the sex again was very loving, attentive, wanting to please me very much, spending lots of time on foreplay and lots of time afterwards stroking me and kissing me and talking nicely to me. Sometimes I feel like a real idiot to have been played so completely. You're not an idiot and I don't know if it helps or not but I think that much of the time his affection and feelings for you were probably very real to him. If only because he wanted what he couldn't have and valued your place in his life even though he stayed married. Does that make sense? Like, he didn't mean to play you even though he couldn't deliver on being with you. And if he was with you and only you then the relationship dynamic probably would have been quite different and not always as passionate and special. So in some ways as bad as it sounds I am glad I got to experience those intense feelings even though I know they are not really love and I just confused them with love. I don't really understand why the passion is so deep in an affair, I guess because it's about wanting what we can't have, and I would like to think I could find it with a single guy but I'm not sure. For now I'm just trying to be good to myself, like really good to myself all the time instead of the give and take and push and pull kind of 'giving' that MM gave me.
pureinheart Posted November 15, 2010 Posted November 15, 2010 Im just seeing things for what they really are/were...still glad I dont have him full time as it really a bullet that I dodged. He'll never be truly happy due to his masochistic tendencies...he loves the risk that comes with cheating...I guess it adds some excitement to his boring predictable married life. I hear ya WR...both exDM and his W were like that....the thrill of the chase, or catch, meaning who would get caught first:rolleyes:...what a joke, and I was part of that for a time. All of that is over now, and it will be a distant memory for you also...only there for the purpose of understanding others. Your doing really good BTW, I just get concerned when I hear a lot of anger and resentment because I was there many times and sometimes it took me to some very destructive places. Stand in there WR (((((((((((hugs))))))))))
pureinheart Posted November 15, 2010 Posted November 15, 2010 yes, for me it was very intoxicating too, he seemed full of love for me (now seems more like he was just full of ****), was very affectionate, went out of his way to see me, talked endlessly with me and appeared to really listen and be interested in me, was always saying what he liked about me, admiring of me, and with the sex again was very loving, attentive, wanting to please me very much, spending lots of time on foreplay and lots of time afterwards stroking me and kissing me and talking nicely to me. Sometimes I feel like a real idiot to have been played so completely. (((((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))))))) Your not an idiot BTW, you are human period, dot, the end!
endlessness Posted November 15, 2010 Posted November 15, 2010 yes, for me it was very intoxicating too, he seemed full of love for me (now seems more like he was just full of ****), was very affectionate, went out of his way to see me, talked endlessly with me and appeared to really listen and be interested in me, was always saying what he liked about me, admiring of me, and with the sex again was very loving, attentive, wanting to please me very much, spending lots of time on foreplay and lots of time afterwards stroking me and kissing me and talking nicely to me. Sometimes I feel like a real idiot to have been played so completely. Wow. For a second I thought I wrote that. Seriously.
blinded_27 Posted November 17, 2010 Posted November 17, 2010 Sometimes I think the appeal is really intense because it doesn't compare to a normal relationship. MMs have a lot of reasons to make you feel special and dote on you. From the beginning MM was very vocal about how into me he was and how much he wanted me and what he loved about me etc. Now I realize I shouldn't fall for that crap because it could obviously be empty words, or motivated by the wrong reasons, and real love comes about more slowly and naturally. But at the time it was very intoxicating and even now when I start to talk to a guy or slowly date him I get impatient or dissatisfied, like, MM would be saying this, or whatever... it just doesn't compare and I know the reasons behind it logically but I think it will take some time for it to sink in emotionally. Another thing is that the sex with MM was great, he was all about me and I realize he had great motivation to do this as well but then when I compare it to other boyfriends I've had it seems like they have no motivation to try to please me and I get worried that I will never have it like that again. Sorry to be blunt but these are some of my reasons I thought he was different with me, in that, I thought he was totally in love and passionate about me and I am, but once reality set in I realized it was all smoke and mirrors. wow.... agree x10000000.
steelknife Posted November 17, 2010 Posted November 17, 2010 yes, for me it was very intoxicating too, he seemed full of love for me (now seems more like he was just full of ****), was very affectionate, went out of his way to see me, talked endlessly with me and appeared to really listen and be interested in me, was always saying what he liked about me, admiring of me, and with the sex again was very loving, attentive, wanting to please me very much, spending lots of time on foreplay and lots of time afterwards stroking me and kissing me and talking nicely to me. Sometimes I feel like a real idiot to have been played so completely. everything echoes exactly my thoughts and feelings...especially the bolded ones. where did it all go? what remains is the idiot..
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