Cheap Boyfriend, But Never Cheap Girlfriend?

[Els]

Lol, I understand ur cynicysm. But I'm very sure that I take better care of myself than most men and perhaps many women mainly because to be honest I'm someone who is a bit more on the self conscious side when it comes to how I look.

 

Besides as I said I'm not into women who look like paris hilton all the time. I'm a very down to earth person. I like natural beauty. Women with too 'artificial' a look, remind me of pornstars n I'm not interested in them more than sexually.

 

I specifically said 'not like Paris Hilton/celebrities'. There isn't any such thing as true 'natural beauty'. If there was, women wouldn't bother with all this crap. You also didn't answer my question.

[somedude81]

So, just curious, how would you feel about a woman doesn't put a single cent or second more (time = money, yeah?) into her appearance compared to you? No waxing, no styling and conditioning for her hair, no makeup, no cleansing toning and moisturising, completely natural nails, tee and jeans or shirt and slacks all the time, one pair of flat-heeled shoes for all occasions. Oh, and you split her BC costs 50/50, of course. That be okay with you?

Funny how everything you said perfectly describes the current girl I'm infatuated with. Heck, I probably spend more time on my appearance than she does since I shampoo and condition my hair and spend about two minutes trying to style it. And yes, she's the girl that I keep talking about here.

 

I'm attracted to her natural beauty and personality.

 

Adding makeup, sexy hair, nice clothes, would only add more to her looks. Probably bumping her up a couple points.

[musemaj11]

I specifically said 'not like Paris Hilton/celebrities'. There isn't any such thing as true 'natural beauty'. If there was, women wouldn't bother with all this crap. You also didn't answer my question.

Ya well perhaps just like countless other women out there, you think that you can only be beautiful if you look like those women on the cover of 'Vogue'.

 

But for me and probably many other guys, a lot of girls are attractive enough with simple but well chosen outfit and a little bit of eye liner and foundation. I find girls whom I meet at college and looking like they are going clubbing or something are gross.

 

Due to sexual reason, men like stunning looking women who remind them of those women in pornos. But deep down, emotionally many if not most men prefer modest looking women.

 

So, just curious, how would you feel about a woman who splits all dates equally, but doesn't put a single cent or second more (time = money, yeah?)

My issue is not about splitting on dates. My issue is with being judged by how much money I spend.

 

Im fine if a girl didnt wanna be with me because I werent good looking enough for her. But if I lost value to her just because I dont spend enough on her then I dont like that.

Edited November 17, 2010 by musemaj11

[Untouchable_Fire]

Meh, just the way of the world. Far more men complain about 'overweight women' than women about men, anyhow.

 

Guys complain about it but still date overweight women.

 

Women rarely complain about overweight men unless they are dating the guy, but almost never date fat guys unless they have lots of money.

 

Lets not act like fat overwieght Men are in high demand to females

Some women dont mind slightly overweight guys not because theyre not shallow but because it makes them look better and smaller in contrast..

 

My cousin is a fat guy... and when he does date women, they generally abuse him and cheat. Even women who are similarly overweight.

 

The same woman that would be a doormat for another guy will treat him like dirt because he is fatter. His last GF cheated on him with 11... Yes 11 different guys!

 

I'm not even talking about Chanel. I said 'average woman'. To look 'pleasing', the average woman still needs to spend 2-3x more time and effort than the average man (both of whom do not buy Salvatore Ferragano or Louis Vuitton). Hairstyling, makeup, skincare and haircare and nailcare products, hair removal, accessories don't come free. Even clothes, women typically spend more on, because a woman usually needs more variety for different situations (ie a man wears a shirt and slacks to a formal dinner, job interview, weddings, etc). A woman usually needs a different set of clothing for all 3 of the above.

Trust me, I know. I'm in the students-on-a-budget group, so every bit of $$ counts. The girls spend a far greater portion of their allowance on appearance than the guys do. I spend far less than the average college girl (because I cannot justify spending, for example, $300 every 6 months on chemical hair straightening that 90% of the girls around me get because it produces that nice sleek look that the guys here love), but the amount I spend is still a little more than the average college guy (ie my bf).

 

Give me a freakin break. I don't care about any of that stuff on a woman... all that matters is nice hair and nice skin.

 

Most of the time I won't even notice what type of clothing or shoes she wears. Those things look better on the floor anyways.

 

Your list is tailored to women who plan to attend a special event.

 

Yes, things have changed, but they haven't really reached complete equilibrium as of yet. To date, women are self-sufficient, but still more women sacrifice their careers for their partners and family than men, so they earn less in general. Also, society hasn't changed its stance on the worth of a woman residing largely in her looks compared to men, which has led most women to spend at least 2-3 times the amount of money and effort the average man does on her appearance. Similarly, society still retains some vestiges of 'chivalry', which dictates that gentlemen pay during the courting phase. To be completely honest, I think that if a man is discriminatory in who he goes out with, the amount of money he would spend on all his first few dates is still far less than the extra amount of money the average woman would spend on her appearance. It's just the way things are. If you overthrow one, do you expect to keep the other?

Also, as for the last sentence of your post, I don't find it sad, to be honest. I think it's a demonstration of true love - you love the person for everything that she is, instead of only lusting after her as an object of sexual desire - and quite beautiful (assuming the woman treats him well in return, aside from withholding sex til later, that is). None of the men I've been with have ever pressured me into sex (although they were all too happy to oblige at the first hint that I wanted it! ) and I respect them all the more for it.

 

Eh? If you spend money to look good... you do that for yourself... not me.

 

It's a false argument to say "she spends money on looking good, so he should pay for all the dates". Yeah, that logic would be valid... if she had to promise not to date anyone else.

 

Dating reality is that she spends that money to look good for the 20 other guys she is dating too... and after you shell out $75 for a nice 2nd date dinner... she is never going to take your calls ever again. Why? Because she is cheap and entitled. I'd say 80% of the women who fell off after the 2nd or 3rd date, never even offered to pay at any point. Yeah... it's a cost of dating... but don't go acting like it balances because it doesn't.

 

Also... sexless relationships are terrible. It occurs primarily in marriages... and it should be illegal. It's just straight up emotional abuse. Don't think that only women withhold sex. Some guys do it too... and it should be illegal.

[zengirl]

Give me a freakin break. I don't care about any of that stuff on a woman... all that matters is nice hair and nice skin.

 

Do you have any idea how much nice hair and skin cost? My shampoos (yes, multiple ones) cost between $22-35 each. Conditioners about the same. Straightening treatments run about $150 every 2-3 months. Cut and color can run $100, though I only get the $40 cut now. Professional blow dryer = $100 and a travel sized pro ionic for my fella's house was $60. Then there are the other hair products, the annual facials, the skin products, the masks, the hair removal products and services, etc. I don't really mind doing it, but I don't wear loads of make-up or buy pricey clothes... most of my money goes into hair, skin, and teeth. Teeth don't stay white all on their own either, even if you have good hygeine (they're actually meant to discolor and my expensive whitening treatments have to be staggered so as not to thin the enamel).

 

Women with naturally perfect hair and skin are few and far between, and you likely can't spot how unnatural your lady is, fellas. My boyfriend totally thinks I'm wash and go until I point out otherwise----I have great products and professional services that allow me to act as so. You know, great beauty treatments are made to make a girl look natural.

 

It's a false argument to say "she spends money on looking good, so he should pay for all the dates". Yeah, that logic would be valid... if she had to promise not to date anyone else.

 

Dating reality is that she spends that money to look good for the 20 other guys she is dating too... and after you shell out $75 for a nice 2nd date dinner... she is never going to take your calls ever again. Why? Because she is cheap and entitled. I'd say 80% of the women who fell off after the 2nd or 3rd date, never even offered to pay at any point. Yeah... it's a cost of dating... but don't go acting like it balances because it doesn't.

 

$75 is too much for a second date; I'll give you that.

 

Then again, with the same logic you use above----any guy who didn't insist on paying for the first few dates with me didn't wind up being a viable relationship either. The fact is that most good men I know take pride in paying for a woman they truly see a potential future with. That factors as much into the judgment as the money itself, more so in many ways.

 

I do agree 100% a woman shouldn't knowingly allow a man to take her out if she knows already she sees no future with him, but it's different if they don't know----same as I think no man should have sex with a girl when he doesn't want a relationship unless he makes that explicitly clear.

[TheBigQuestion]

Do you have any idea how much nice hair and skin cost? My shampoos (yes, multiple ones) cost between $22-35 each. Conditioners about the same. Straightening treatments run about $150 every 2-3 months. Cut and color can run $100, though I only get the $40 cut now. Professional blow dryer = $100 and a travel sized pro ionic for my fella's house was $60. Then there are the other hair products, the annual facials, the skin products, the masks, the hair removal products and services, etc. I don't really mind doing it, but I don't wear loads of make-up or buy pricey clothes... most of my money goes into hair, skin, and teeth. Teeth don't stay white all on their own either, even if you have good hygeine (they're actually meant to discolor and my expensive whitening treatments have to be staggered so as not to thin the enamel).

 

Women with naturally perfect hair and skin are few and far between, and you likely can't spot how unnatural your lady is, fellas. My boyfriend totally thinks I'm wash and go until I point out otherwise----I have great products and professional services that allow me to act as so. You know, great beauty treatments are made to make a girl look natural.

 

 

 

I'm a dude who used to have long hair. I've played in bands for most of my life so it happens. I never paid as much for shampoo and conditioners as you're saying you have and my hair usually looked pretty good and stayed healthy. I didn't get any straightening treatments, but don't act like those are necessary for men to find you attractive. Hair coloring is also pure vanity that rarely has anything to do with men's preferences. I use a facial moisturizer as well as multiple prescription treatments for eczema and those don't add up to more than $200 per year, even with my bare-bones insurance plan. I also doubt most men give a crap about women's teeth unless they are significantly yellow and discolored or completely messed up in an age of widespread orthodontics.

 

I guess my point is that I don't deny that women on the average do spend a little more on their appearance. The reality is that a lot of the things that make the cost so lopsided has a lot more to do with the woman's preference for products that are high end or expensive and/or are vain in ways to which men are usually oblivious. Therefore, these comparisons are really pointless. They have little to do with male preferences.

[D-Lish]

I've been on 4 dates with my current dude. He has probably spent a little more in paying for the dates, but I've driven a little more- otherwise we've been splitting 50/50.

 

I make the same as he does.

[musemaj11]

 

Then again, with the same logic you use above----any guy who didn't insist on paying for the first few dates with me didn't wind up being a viable relationship either. The fact is that most good men I know take pride in paying for a woman they truly see a potential future with. That factors as much into the judgment as the money itself, more so in many ways.

 

I do agree 100% a woman shouldn't knowingly allow a man to take her out if she knows already she sees no future with him, but it's different if they don't know----same as I think no man should have sex with a girl when he doesn't want a relationship unless he makes that explicitly clear.

Women who don't insist on contributing financially on dates lose respect from me also. First date is fine. But if after that she doesn't show any concern for me financially then I would be wary of her. If she doesn't care about me financially early on, then I can't see a future with her. The concern she shows means that she cares.

 

As for the sex part, I don't think its a fair analogy. Its not like sex is something that is only enjoyed by one person. A woman shouldn't have sex w a man in the first place if she feels that she's giving sex to him.

[Dazzel]

I made it quite clear that I'm not one of those men who just wants to pump and dump women and only want sex. Infact I think I made it clear that I respect women and I respect the fact that women do not want sex very often, and you somehow turn that into me being a woman hater again Men are damned if they do and damned if they don't by your logic.

 

 

Hypocritical bullsh*t. Most of your posts are hating on women and have the underlying intention of offending the ladies who post here.

 

You do NOT respect women. You have bashed women at this forum numberous times. Every one of your posts attacks women or has something negative to say. You make men out to be victims of women. You are a dramaqueen. Quite being a whiney boy and grow up.

 

Not all women are prudes. Women are open about their enjoyment of sex these days. I don't know what rock you've been living under but you need to get out into the world.

You mentioned in another thread you have never had sex. You obviously have had no experience and therefore have no basis to back up what you say. Maybe they are prudes to YOU, and I think they have good reason if you act like you do on this forum in real life situations. I surely would be repulsed by you as well.

[waynebrady]

Hypocritical bullsh*t. Most of your posts are hating on women and have the underlying intention of offending the ladies who post here.

 

You do NOT respect women. You have bashed women at this forum numberous times. Every one of your posts attacks women or has something negative to say. You make men out to be victims of women. You are a dramaqueen. Quite being a whiney boy and grow up.

 

Not all women are prudes. Women are open about their enjoyment of sex these days. I don't know what rock you've been living under but you need to get out into the world.

You mentioned in another thread you have never had sex. You obviously have had no experience and therefore have no basis to back up what you say. Maybe they are prudes to YOU, and I think they have good reason if you act like you do on this forum in real life situations. I surely would be repulsed by you as well.

 

Most of my posts are about how women never or rarely takes any initiatives in dating and relationships like calling, setting up dates and that sort of things and how men always have to do all the chasing. That has been proven several times by the women on here. Is it really so hard to understand why this annoys me(and many other men)? Since men always do the pursuing and women most of the time have a more passive and aloof style, it makes it seem like men have more intrest in women than women have in men. I have been proven wrong by women at times by they are exceptions rather than the rule. But do you know what? I like it when I get proven wrong by women who says they take the initiative, that's why I keep posting about this.

 

Then alot of my posts are about women's lack of sex drive. Which is also true, it's the way it's always been. You should take it as a compliment, atleast I'm not one of those men who constantly hassle women for sex or pressure them to do any of it.

[Els]

Funny how everything you said perfectly describes the current girl I'm infatuated with. Heck, I probably spend more time on my appearance than she does since I shampoo and condition my hair and spend about two minutes trying to style it. And yes, she's the girl that I keep talking about here.

 

I'm attracted to her natural beauty and personality.

 

Adding makeup, sexy hair, nice clothes, would only add more to her looks. Probably bumping her up a couple points.

 

It's awesome that you're attracted to her the way she is. Your last statement is the way most sensible and non-golddigging women should view a man paying though. I'm attracted to my guys regardless of whether they pay or not, but them being gentlemanly and paying would bump them up a couple points, so to speak.

 

Ya well perhaps just like countless other women out there, you think that you can only be beautiful if you look like those women on the cover of 'Vogue'.

 

But for me and probably many other guys, a lot of girls are attractive enough with simple but well chosen outfit and a little bit of eye liner and foundation. I find girls whom I meet at college and looking like they are going clubbing or something are gross.

 

You have no idea what it takes for a woman to look 'good' (again, note I didn't mention Vogue?) in the first place. Let's take an example I have in mind - some amateur photography of a woman who looks 'good' but not 'celebrity good' or 'a 10'. What do you think went into producing that look? Do you really think $100 for outfit and maybe $50 for hairstyle is all it takes?

 

http://us.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/bartekchiny/bartekchiny0909/bartekchiny090900015/5556979-beautiful-charming-asian-girl-cute-chinese-teenager-wearing-casual-clothes-outdoor-photo-session-in-.jpg

 

Give me a freakin break. I don't care about any of that stuff on a woman... all that matters is nice hair and nice skin.

 

Any idea how much it time and money it takes to get that?

Edited November 17, 2010 by Elswyth

[Els]

Also... sexless relationships are terrible. It occurs primarily in marriages... and it should be illegal. It's just straight up emotional abuse. Don't think that only women withhold sex. Some guys do it too... and it should be illegal.

 

Who are you to judge whether a relationship is terrible or not? I know plenty of couples (probably because I move in traditional Asian and Christian circles) who aren't planning on having sex until they marry. Both the guy and the girl made the decision together. So they're both emotionally abusing each other? Also, the context of my post that you quoted was about people waiting to have sex, not about sexless relationships. There's a huge difference.

[Untouchable_Fire]

Do you have any idea how much nice hair and skin cost? My shampoos (yes, multiple ones) cost between $22-35 each. Conditioners about the same. Straightening treatments run about $150 every 2-3 months. Cut and color can run $100, though I only get the $40 cut now. Professional blow dryer = $100 and a travel sized pro ionic for my fella's house was $60. Then there are the other hair products, the annual facials, the skin products, the masks, the hair removal products and services, etc. I don't really mind doing it, but I don't wear loads of make-up or buy pricey clothes... most of my money goes into hair, skin, and teeth. Teeth don't stay white all on their own either, even if you have good hygeine (they're actually meant to discolor and my expensive whitening treatments have to be staggered so as not to thin the enamel).

Women with naturally perfect hair and skin are few and far between, and you likely can't spot how unnatural your lady is, fellas. My boyfriend totally thinks I'm wash and go until I point out otherwise----I have great products and professional services that allow me to act as so. You know, great beauty treatments are made to make a girl look natural.

 

I know that stuff isn't natural... just like I know it isn't done for my benefit.

 

When I was younger I didn't have to have a washboard stomach to get dates... but I would get so much attention and compliments from it that I put tons of effort into it. I didn't do it for any one particular girl. It's not like my GF wanted it so I did it.

 

Now that I'm not a college athlete... I don't maintain that. I can live without all that attention.

 

$75 is too much for a second date; I'll give you that.

Then again, with the same logic you use above----any guy who didn't insist on paying for the first few dates with me didn't wind up being a viable relationship either.

 

Where do you go for dates that's cheap? McDonalds? Chilis? Seriously... if you take a woman to a cheap place... that's just as bad as not paying to most women.

 

The fact is that most good men I know take pride in paying for a woman they truly see a potential future with. That factors as much into the judgment as the money itself, more so in many ways.

 

I think it was also proven in a previous thread that most potential rapists take pride in paying for women too. So... what does paying really mean? Nothing. I know you want it to mean something... but it's just as likely to mean he is generous as it is he thinks women are inferior. It's not like you can tell the difference on a first date.

 

I do agree 100% a woman shouldn't knowingly allow a man to take her out if she knows already she sees no future with him, but it's different if they don't know----same as I think no man should have sex with a girl when he doesn't want a relationship unless he makes that explicitly clear.

 

Your friends are missing a big point. I like paying for someone who I see a future with... but not if it isn't mutual.

 

I don't think you fully understand how shallow, materialistic, and monetarily predatory most women are... Do you seriously think the U.S. is populated with women like Mother Theresa? I wish... these women seem more like caricatures from a Kanye West song.

 

It's awesome that you're attracted to her the way she is. Your last statement is the way most sensible and non-golddigging women should view a man paying though. I'm attracted to my guys regardless of whether they pay or not, but them being gentlemanly and paying would bump them up a couple points, so to speak.

You have no idea what it takes for a woman to look 'good' (again, note I didn't mention Vogue?) in the first place. Let's take an example I have in mind - some amateur photography of a woman who looks 'good' but not 'celebrity good' or 'a 10'. What do you think went into producing that look? Do you really think $100 for outfit and maybe $50 for hairstyle is all it takes?

Any idea how much it time and money it takes to get that?

 

Do you know how much work it takes to make money? Sometimes I have 80+ hour workweeks and travel. I have to sacrifice a huge chunk of my social life to put together presentations and supply systems.

 

Let's face it... a woman's looks are of a constantly depreciating value. If that's all you have to offer then I'm not interested.

 

Spend months and hours in front of a mirror, millions of $$$ on face creams and what do you have in the end?

 

Just do the basics and spend the time saved being a better person, because that is what makes someone beautiful. Not the perfect makeup.

[musemaj11]

Let's face it... a woman's looks are of a constantly depreciating value. If that's all you have to offer then I'm not interested.

Lol, I remember a joke about this.

 

Something about a rich man marrying a young hot woman is a bad business decision because the value of the investment is only going to depreciate while a rich man usually will only get richer as he gets older. :laugh:

[Els]

Do you know how much work it takes to make money? Sometimes I have 80+ hour workweeks and travel. I have to sacrifice a huge chunk of my social life to put together presentations and supply systems.

 

Women have to do exactly the same amount of work (arguably more, according to statistics) to make money, and to attain the 'average' look for a woman takes more expenditure of said money than to attain the 'average' look for a man.

 

Let's face it... a woman's looks are of a constantly depreciating value. If that's all you have to offer then I'm not interested.

 

Spend months and hours in front of a mirror, millions of $$$ on face creams and what do you have in the end?

 

Just do the basics and spend the time saved being a better person, because that is what makes someone beautiful. Not the perfect makeup.

 

What do you consider 'the basics' for a woman? How much do you think it costs to create the look in the link that I posted?

 

And would one of you guys please give a direct answer to my question already:

 

So, just curious, how would you feel about a woman doesn't put a single cent or second more (time = money, yeah?) into her appearance compared to you? No waxing, no styling and conditioning for her hair, no makeup, no cleansing toning and moisturising, completely natural nails, tee and jeans or shirt and slacks all the time, one pair of flat-heeled shoes for all occasions.

Assuming she pays for 50% of all dates, of course.

[musemaj11]

So, just curious, how would you feel about a woman doesn't put a single cent or second more (time = money, yeah?) into her appearance compared to you? No waxing, no styling and conditioning for her hair, no makeup, no cleansing toning and moisturising, completely natural nails, tee and jeans or shirt and slacks all the time, one pair of flat-heeled shoes for all occasions.

Assuming she pays for 50% of all dates, of course.

I already answered the question.

 

I take care of myself as well.

 

And I like girls who look good with only very little makeup. Contrary to your belief, tons of girls have natural beauty. I see them every day.

 

I dont really need 50% split on dates. Just show concern for me financially. Dont somehow feel that you deserve and expect to be thrown money at.

[zengirl]

Untouchable_Fire, my boyfriend spent $40 or less on our first date at a very nice Thai restaurant (plus ice cream after, so I'm rounding up to $40). I left the tip, and I left at least 30%, more I think, and it was still less than $10. Go to affordable local restaurants. That place is nice, but cheaper than Chilis. The idea that one needs to spend $75 on a date is silly. Our 2nd date cost him less than $30 because we went to a great local place and a walk around the park.

 

If you're dropping $75 on every date, that sounds like a lot to me, unless you're talking a large, expensive city (I live in a mid-level Southern city), in which case your $75 is probably equal to my $30 since everyone gets paid more and everything's more expensive.

 

The rest of your points I won't bother to address. It's silly to go round and round.

 

I already answered the question.

 

I take care of myself as well.

 

And I like girls who look good with only very little makeup. Contrary to your belief, tons of girls have natural beauty. I see them every day.

 

I dont really need 50% split on dates. Just show concern for me financially. Dont somehow feel that you deserve and expect to be thrown money at.

 

Most people think I have "natural beauty" when they see me and most of these treatments aren't heavy on the make-up, etc. I don't dye my hair, wear lots of make-up, etc. I still spend $200+ a month on upkeep on things men never buy (plus many of the things they do). Some of that is anti-aging that doesn't show benefits now (well, it does, but looking 18 in my mid-twenties isn't as important as looking 20-something will be in my thirties) but will later.

 

And the idea of "Oh, you don't do that for men," is silly. I do. And they appreciate it.

[kdark]

I always told my ex gf that she looked better without make up, and I honestly thought she did. She still went ahead and wore it, even when it would be just her and I hanging out.

 

Don't kid yourself or me by saying women wear make up and apply anti aging cream because of solely men. It's a combination of your own personal insecurity and societal pressure.

[Untouchable_Fire]

Who are you to judge whether a relationship is terrible or not? I know plenty of couples (probably because I move in traditional Asian and Christian circles) who aren't planning on having sex until they marry. Both the guy and the girl made the decision together. So they're both emotionally abusing each other? Also, the context of my post that you quoted was about people waiting to have sex, not about sexless relationships. There's a huge difference.

 

I'm 100% behind people who choose to wait. I think that by taking sex off the table you can sometimes build greater emotional intimacy.

 

Sexless marriages are crap and the withholding partner is just as bad as a cheater... excluding those with medical issues.

 

Women have to do exactly the same amount of work (arguably more, according to statistics) to make money, and to attain the 'average' look for a woman takes more expenditure of said money than to attain the 'average' look for a man.

 

Women are not judged by their income. For the most part Men don't care what you make.

 

I'm not saying beauty doesn't require some effort. Black women in particular have to go through absolute Hades with their hair.

 

What I'm saying is that you don't do this for one guy... you do it for yourself.

 

What do you consider 'the basics' for a woman? How much do you think it costs to create the look in the link that I posted?

And would one of you guys please give a direct answer to my question already:

So, just curious, how would you feel about a woman doesn't put a single cent or second more (time = money, yeah?) into her appearance compared to you? No waxing, no styling and conditioning for her hair, no makeup, no cleansing toning and moisturising, completely natural nails, tee and jeans or shirt and slacks all the time, one pair of flat-heeled shoes for all occasions.

Assuming she pays for 50% of all dates, of course.

 

I've never turned down a woman because of her nails.

 

In the link you provided... I'd say she would probably look good to great without much more than eyeliner. Just going to guess that her wardrobe is the largest expense. Followed by hair products then skin cremes and then makeup.

 

It's been proven that $500 skin cremes are no more effective than $5 ones. Some women even buy the cremes with flakes of gold in them... and swear by it.

 

Also... don't make the mistake of thinking men are not held to any standards. The difference is this... Women put effort into beauty so that they can be more selective about the men they date. Men put effort into being attractive so that they can even get a date. I and a good many other men pour large amounts of time and effort into looking good... and we have to have winning personalities... and loads of money.

[musemaj11]

Untouchable_Fire, my boyfriend spent $40 or less on our first date at a very nice Thai restaurant (plus ice cream after, so I'm rounding up to $40). I left the tip, and I left at least 30%, more I think, and it was still less than $10. Go to affordable local restaurants. That place is nice, but cheaper than Chilis. The idea that one needs to spend $75 on a date is silly. Our 2nd date cost him less than $30 because we went to a great local place and a walk around the park.

For my college student pocket, I can afford a $40 date (no more than once/week). Its reasonable.

 

But as a girl you dont understand. We guys were brought up being told that women rate us by how much money we can spend. So since we cant read your mind, we are pressured to spend a lot of money because we are afraid you will think we are cheap. When a guy refuses to let you pay on dates, chances are its not because he doesnt want you to pay. Its because he doesnt want you think he is cheap. Being labeled cheap for guys is like being called easy for girls. There are tons of self-centered girls like 'Akherousia' who rate a guy's interest in her by how much money he is willing to spend which I think is very foolish. There are elite prostitutes who charge thousands of dollars and they never run out of customers.

 

Like I said, I dont mind spending money on people whom I care about. But I would like them to show concern for me. A girl who holds a belief that the more I spend on her means the more I appreciate her doesnt care about me. She only cares about how she feels. She is a selfish freeloader. A girl who insists on chipping in what she can even if only some fraction because she wants to lessen the guy's expense shows that she is concerned about him and that speaks volume about her character.

 

If you're dropping $75 on every date, that sounds like a lot to me, unless you're talking a large, expensive city (I live in a mid-level Southern city), in which case your $75 is probably equal to my $30 since everyone gets paid more and everything's more expensive.

Well, I live in California and $30 can only take you to a fast-food restaurant.

 

Most people think I have "natural beauty" when they see me and most of these treatments aren't heavy on the make-up, etc. I don't dye my hair, wear lots of make-up, etc. I still spend $200+ a month on upkeep on things men never buy (plus many of the things they do). Some of that is anti-aging that doesn't show benefits now (well, it does, but looking 18 in my mid-twenties isn't as important as looking 20-something will be in my thirties) but will later.

My sister spends only around $100/month and she looks fine. Nothing special, but she looks fine and she attracts guys.

 

Maybe you are just trying too hard to improve your looks and to compete with other girls.

Edited November 17, 2010 by musemaj11

[veggirl]

Do you have any idea how much nice hair and skin cost? My shampoos (yes, multiple ones) cost between $22-35 each. Conditioners about the same. Straightening treatments run about $150 every 2-3 months. Cut and color can run $100, though I only get the $40 cut now. Professional blow dryer = $100 and a travel sized pro ionic for my fella's house was $60. Then there are the other hair products, the annual facials, the skin products, the masks, the hair removal products and services, etc. I don't really mind doing it, but I don't wear loads of make-up or buy pricey clothes... most of my money goes into hair, skin, and teeth. Teeth don't stay white all on their own either, even if you have good hygeine (they're actually meant to discolor and my expensive whitening treatments have to be staggered so as not to thin the enamel).

 

Women with naturally perfect hair and skin are few and far between, and you likely can't spot how unnatural your lady is, fellas. My boyfriend totally thinks I'm wash and go until I point out otherwise----I have great products and professional services that allow me to act as so. You know, great beauty treatments are made to make a girl look natural.

 

LOL, WHAT. :rolleyes: I'm a female who looks natural yet pretty, and this is absurd. Please don't make it sound as though all of us spend 100s of dollars each month to look nice.

[SteveC80]

I stay away from womne who use that much product and makeup because uusally when you see them for the first time in the morning its not a pretty site and nothing close to what you saw the night before

[TheBigQuestion]

LOL, WHAT. :rolleyes: I'm a female who looks natural yet pretty, and this is absurd. Please don't make it sound as though all of us spend 100s of dollars each month to look nice.

 

I agree. My ex-girlfriend was very attractive, but she was also a bargain hunter who wasn't obsessed with keeping up appearances or other such vanity. We briefly shared a living space and unless she purposely hid all these magical and exorbitantly expensive hair/skin/teeth/nail products from me, there's no way she spent anywhere near as much money on her appearance as some women on this board do. I'm not singling out any poster either, because this topic has come up numerous times.

 

I can't help but feel like a lot of women aren't willing to admit that they spend lots of money on beauty and appearance products either because they aren't discriminating consumers or because their personal vanity extends well beyond what men want. If either one is the case, then the comparisons of "What men have to do to be attractive" vs. "What women have to do to be attractive" in terms of both effort and money are invalid.

[musemaj11]

I stay away from womne who use that much product and makeup because uusally when you see them for the first time in the morning its not a pretty site and nothing close to what you saw the night before

Makeup looks great from far. But from close it looks gross.

 

Eyeliner, lip gloss and foundation are all a woman needs.

[SteveC80]

These women are the defenition of "high maintenance" and women Men try to avoid