Cheap Boyfriend, But Never Cheap Girlfriend?

[Woggle]

I'll tell you what. I'll tell my girlfriends to demand a man's credentials, his academical stats, and the papers from where he works/works during the course of the first date. How's that?

 

Is it a more viable way of showing he cares about the woman?

 

 

You can't tell a person's true character male or female until you actually get to know them. That is why you date them for a while before commiting. What you mention means nothing because there are plenty of people who are successful in their careers that treat their mates horribly.

[waynebrady]

Ah, when someone doesn't tell you what you want to hear, that person is a troll?

 

And when someone doesn't tell you what you want to hear, that person is a whiney boy who hates women?

[Lionblade]

Only thing that's funnier than Akherousia is the people that are replying to this troll. How can you expect to have a discussion with someone when literally every post is being countered by personal insults in regards to your intellectual ability or you being a "whiny little boy"?

[waynebrady]

You do speak the truth with that last part.

 

And again.

 

I have never called most women skanks, gold diggers or shallow. Infact I haven't called any woman that. Simply put I do not hate woman and I have never expressed any hate towards women in any of my posts(which you obviously haven't read). Your posts are a joke, you don't have anything what so ever to come up with. ALL you do in your posts is express hatred for men, and you call EVERYONE who disagrees with you a whiney boy who hates women What a joke.

[waynebrady]

Next time you go to the doctor and he tells you to stop smoking or else you'll die, you can tell him he's a troll.

 

I don't understand you guys. I've tried logic, I've tried allowing you to see a woman's emotions ,and you still don't get it.

 

Are you lot too dense or you don't want to understand what I'm saying?

 

By the way, the posters I've been "Insulting" are all women - haters. Are you going to treat well the person who calls you a rapist because a few of your gender raped women?

 

No they are not. You have been way more offensive and hateful towards men here than the men have been towards women. Your posts are a joke and you got nothing really. You think you are right at all times and EVERYONE else is wrong, and EVERYONE who disagrees with you is a woman hater. How do you expect people do not think you are troll when you call everyone who disagrees with you a whiney boy who hates women?

 

I don't hate women, I simply disagree with your posts. What are you gonna do, call me a whiney boy who hates women again? Or come up with some other irrelevant bull**** like this "Next time you go to the doctor and he tells you to stop smoking or else you'll die, you can tell him he's a troll." which has nothing to do with anything?

[waynebrady]

Funny how quick you change your tune. "Women cannot have sexual desire." What do you think this is ? Drawing class? No, you speak of nothing at all. You know nothing. You've never been in a relationship, I'm not even sure you've ever had sex.

 

Why do you speak of what women do or how most women? can you run before you learn how to walk?

 

I'm not interested in being the teacher of children with special needs. I'm done with this thread. You guys can carry on being ignorant about women, sex and relationships. I'll just make sure my girlfriends and their girlfriends become more guarded because I don't want to see one of them with a guy like all of you whinners and women - haters.

 

Then again, as if my girlfriends would want subpar "men".

 

If you ever have a son I'd feel really sorry for him. But then again good men of quality are not gonna want to be with a woman like you anyway. Femi-nazis like yourself who hate men are not gonna attract real alpha males. I might not be alpha but I know for shure none of them would have you. Only "subpar" men as you put are gonna put up with your man-hating bull****.

[sanskrit]

Yet, with such easy access to sex, most Dutch men prefer to have girlfriends and wives.

 

Shockingly, the vast majority of heterosexual males, living in Europe, with access to cheap sex, with very beautiful, young and sexually skilled women, are spending far more time (and as you say "money") on their girlfriends and wives.

 

Interesting, so are men generally looking to "pump and dump" or for a wife or GF? You contradict yourself frequently here.

 

As I don't approach NASA and ask them to to give me a job because I've read "Space Odyssey:2001", you guys should really stay away from giving advices/make assumptions to other men, on women and how we are, react to the world, and what we want from men.

 

Several of the men in this thread, self included, have lots of experience with women, you just ignore it. As a woman who has easy, instant access to sex whenever she wants it, it's really easy to condescend and talk down to men who have problems in this area, isn't it? Yet you keep on and on and on with it.

[waynebrady]

Now I'm a Femi- nazi for not wanting boys, only men. Yes, I know, despite not being capable of sexual desire(as you say), I am a nazi because I have good taste in men.

 

Cupcake, I was raised by Alpha males. My brother is an Alpha male. Every man I know is an Alpha male. You? You don't even qualify as a beta male. You're the gamma type of male. The type who, not even by paying money, is going to get female attention.

 

Nah, don't be sorry about a potential son of mine. He'd have great examples on how to be a great man. Plus, with the average male height in the family being 6'2'' and with kids being taller and taller nowadays,my son would probably inherit the typical body of an Alpha male. He also wouldn't turn out like the sissy you are, ignorant of women. And wouldn't be like all the little babies we've seen on this thread.

 

Thing is you don't know anything about me so stop talking like you know it all. You call me and everyone who disagrees with you a sissy, beta-male, whiney little boy who hates women :rolleyes: Why should anyone take you seriously when ALL you got is personal insults? Your replys are a joke, And pretty much no one seems to take you seriously anyway. Go troll somewhere else, we have all seen how much of a joke you are by now.

 

Most of your replys are irrelevant. I DON'T CARE if the average male height is 6'2 in your family. It has nothing to do with anything. Aren't you a Swede? You are from Sweden and you are talking to me about alpha males? Guess what, alpha males DOESN'T EXIST in Sweden. Compared to Americans, Swedish men are all beta males. Swedish "alpha" males wouldn't even be gamma males if they came to America.

 

And now I expect yet another joke of a post by you. Filled with irrelavant bull**** and personal insults.

[waynebrady]

Cupcake, I was raised by Alpha males. My brother is an Alpha male. Every man I know is an Alpha male. You? You don't even qualify as a beta male. You're the gamma type of male. The type who, not even by paying money, is going to get female attention.

 

If you are from Sweden. NONE in your family is alpha male, or ever was. If your brother or father or whatever came to America they would struggle to qualify as gamma males. And that's just the truth. Doesn't matter how tall I am or how many women I get, I'm American and therefore tougher and more alpha than any Swede by default.

[Chicago_Guy]

We want attention from the right men. The men we are attracted to. The men we're attracted to varies from women women. We welcome and are flattered by the attention of the men we want, but that's it.

 

We're not interested in getting attention from every man. Some of us do but those have issues.

 

Money? We have our own money. We are simply interested in who is willing to invest money on us because there are so many players and PUA's trying to pick us up to pump and dump.

 

A man who is really interested in us(and that's the man we want) is going to invest money, this has nothing to do with "prostitution" but with how Mankind evolved; men provide, women supply.

 

A man is going to have to spend some money. However, if he is smart, he will be very careful about how he spends his money, especially at the beginning of dating a particular woman. I have learned the hard way not to spend too much money on a woman (e.g., on dinner dates) until she has proven herself worthy. From your perspective, there many be many "players and PUA's trying to pick us up to pump and dump". However, from a man's perspective, there are many women who aren't really interested in certain men, yet have no problem accepting dates, leading the men on, and essentially taking advantage of them financially.

 

I have been trying to convince one of my friends that taking a woman out for dinner on a first date is a foolish move and a waste of money - he would be better off meeting for drinks first and then asking her out to dinner after she has made it clear that she really does like him and isn't just after a free meal.

[Pyro]

If you are from Sweden. NONE in your family is alpha male, or ever was. If your brother or father or whatever came to America they would struggle to qualify as gamma males. And that's just the truth. Doesn't matter how tall I am or how many women I get, I'm American and therefore tougher and more alpha than any Swede by default.

 

but tough guys wouldn't find cumming inside a girl offensive. Just saying.

[ascendotum]

With so many guys being interested in us, we must have a way to filter out the guys who are just into us for one night from the guys who are into us for a lifetime. Paying for dates or whatever it is, is a much more effective way to do so because most men aren't that willing to part away from their money unless they feel the woman has value.

 

Its a marker but not a very good one. Lots of guys will happily pay the price of a nice dinner as the necessary entry price for a ride on the love carousel, with no intention of being there for the bad times, the sick times and the poor times. Likewise lots of women seem to be happy to waive the wine & dine filter test and go on faith for guys that are hot looking (the riskiest long term prospects).

[Woggle]

Oh, and Sumdude, I essentialy didn't reply to your specific points of view because you don't really know what you're talking about. It's like talking to a 2 year old boy about Goethe. You should consider dedicating yourself to anime or manga because you don't have the flexibility needed to have a relationship with a woman.

 

Emotional flexibility.

 

I have to admire the women you try to hit on; the patience they must have in order to deal with you is remarkable!

 

Woggle, womens' time is precious. With so many guys being interested in us, we must have a way to filter out the guys who are just into us for one night from the guys who are into us for a lifetime.

 

Paying for dates or whatever it is, is a much more effective way to do so because most men aren't that willing to part away from their money unless they feel the woman has value.

 

And really, so many men spend money on video games. Women are far better than video games. A man is too cheap for a girlfriend/date but not for Fifa 2011?

 

Then he better also have sex with fifa 2011. That's how it is for many women. Don't like it? Too bad.

 

Video games are not my thing but us men do have hobbies that are outside of women. There is more to life than getting dates and that is where video games or whatever a man's hobbie is comes in. Women have their own things they enjoy as well so there is nothing wrong with that. Yes spending money on something I enjoy is more important than spending money on a woman I barely know who might not even be available the next day. Men's time and money is precious as well.

[Woggle]

You do speak the truth with that last part.

 

So any man who does not agree with you hates women.

[zengirl]

I don't like fancy things or a lot of money dropped on me, but I remember being really turned off by a fella telling me he changed his mind about taking me to a play (his idea!) because he didn't want to spend too much money. He thought they had discount tickets available, but they didn't. It was pretty early in dating, and I think that was the moment that killed it, though mostly because if I'd invited someone somewhere and a snafu like that came up, I'd just buy the tickets and swallow the cost. Especially since this fellow HAD the money; maybe he would've had to skip a latte or two that week, but think of the message he sent. This guy is still a friend of mine, and he asks me out on many occasions and always wonders to our friends why I said we were better as friends. But I don't trust him any longer to be a partner who cares for others as much as himself, because of that incident, or someone who follows through on what they say, so I'll never go out with him again. To me, he was cheap.

 

Cheap people bother me. I've been poor. Poor isn't cheap. There is a difference---I was always honest about how much I had/made and what I could do with it, and I'm pretty generous with my friends and such. Cheap people have plenty of money to spend on themselves, but none for others, and you can be cheap emotionally as well. Most of the time, the two correlate. Poor people aren't cheap just because they can't spend lots of money; they're just poor. I also don't mind a bit of frugality -- it shows good character -- but cheapness is pretty unforgivable.

 

I've been in a relationship where I earned considerably more and paid for considerably more. I've also been in relationships where the fella earned considerably more and paid for considerably more. The truth is, a man who is not financially stable is less likely to be ready -- to consider himself ready -- for marriage. That is the masculine psyche, for better or worse. (Especially past a certain age and with a college degree, in the circles I tread in.) It's a generalization, but it's fairly true. So, if you're looking for a potential marriage partner, a lot of the poor fellows eliminate themselves. I know loads of girls who dated fellows without money, spent money on the relationship, and came off looking like idiots when nothing came of it.

 

Women invest a lot of other things, namely their youth, into a relationship. My fertility is more limited than a man's. I'm not constantly conscious of that (some women are) but it's there to some degree, in every woman, no matter how successful or independent, I think. This isn't to say women should never invest money into a relationshi --- but to say there are some strange dynamics at work on this topic.

 

A man is going to have to spend some money. However, if he is smart, he will be very careful about how he spends his money, especially at the beginning of dating a particular woman.

 

And this illustrates the crux of the spending issue----how much a man spends generally does correlate to a degree with his interest (as well as with his wealth level, but how much he spends, in relation to his wealth level, gives you a pretty good idea). Because men do this.

 

They consciously suss out what they will and will not do -- this is not ONLY spending, of course, but also the way they behave, how far out of their way they go, how far in advance they plan, etc -- to woo a particular woman. While there are a few Players out there who will do all of that (spending + other investment) just to sleep with a girl, they're not that plentiful.

 

To say the proportion of money they'll spend tells you nothing about interest is untrue. Until that is true, men will continue spending money, and women will continue expecting it.

 

Oh come on. Passive aggressive much? Men and women are equal. Doesn't mean that they're not different.

 

Do you like to see women in high heels? Would you wear high heels? No? Why not, since you believe that both genders must be the same to be equal?

 

How about giving birth? Do you agree with the pain-transmission machines that will give the father 50% of the pain endured during childbirth? Why not, since everything must be divided 50/50 between the two?

 

Would you want a woman who doesn't spend any money on hairstyling, makeup, skincare products, and sexy lingerie? How much money do you spend on all of that? Shouldn't you be okay with such a woman, then, because pure 'equality' denotes having equivalent social expectations?

 

Is there a chance you would take a woman's last name when you marry? Why not?

 

Exactly. The dynamics are what they are. We can be conscious of them. We can try to move forward together in productive ways. I'd actually find a real conversation on such topics fairly interesting, though this one seems to be mostly screeching.

[Woggle]

Men invest their youth as well. As far as I know the aging process affects both genders. Also I was once poor and now I am not. Maybe being cheap has something to do with that.

[tb24]

Anyone else get the feeling that Akherousia and sanskrit should just have sex and be done with it, putting an end to this increasingly surreal debate?

[waynebrady]

but tough guys wouldn't find cumming inside a girl offensive. Just saying.

 

Maybe... But I didn't say I was a tough guy. What I am saying is that Americans are tougher and more alpha than Swedes by default. That's why I find it ridicilous that Akherousia is talking to me about how all males in her family is "alpha" and how me and all the guys in this thread are beta males, swedish males wouldn't even qualify as gamma males in America

[zengirl]

Men invest their youth as well. As far as I know the aging process affects both genders. Also I was once poor and now I am not. Maybe being cheap has something to do with that.

 

Cheap has nothing to do with poor, nor does being wealthy and spending a lot of money mean you're not cheap---at least to me.

 

Men age, of course, but a 50 year old man and a 50 year old woman (who are both single) don't have the same level of marriage prospects, and that's just a fact.

[Els]

You just confirmed everything in my post

 

BTW, I'm assuming that the woman is in a relationship with "the right man, whom she is attracted to."

 

As for money, not even 50 years ago did women have money. Women have depended on men for thousands of years. Yes things are changing now and this is the first age that women can be self-sufficient. Even then, it's hard to live on one income in certain parts of the world.

 

Men invest money and attention into their partners because they want sex in return. Few men would invest or even go through the beginning stages if they wouldn't get sex. Sadly, some men are with partners who deny sex, and those men stick around anyways.

 

Yes, things have changed, but they haven't really reached complete equilibrium as of yet. To date, women are self-sufficient, but still more women sacrifice their careers for their partners and family than men, so they earn less in general. Also, society hasn't changed its stance on the worth of a woman residing largely in her looks compared to men, which has led most women to spend at least 2-3 times the amount of money and effort the average man does on her appearance. Similarly, society still retains some vestiges of 'chivalry', which dictates that gentlemen pay during the courting phase. To be completely honest, I think that if a man is discriminatory in who he goes out with, the amount of money he would spend on all his first few dates is still far less than the extra amount of money the average woman would spend on her appearance. It's just the way things are. If you overthrow one, do you expect to keep the other?

 

Also, as for the last sentence of your post, I don't find it sad, to be honest. I think it's a demonstration of true love - you love the person for everything that she is, instead of only lusting after her as an object of sexual desire - and quite beautiful (assuming the woman treats him well in return, aside from withholding sex til later, that is). None of the men I've been with have ever pressured me into sex (although they were all too happy to oblige at the first hint that I wanted it! ) and I respect them all the more for it.

Edited November 16, 2010 by Elswyth

[musemaj11]

Yes, things have changed, but they haven't really reached complete equilibrium as of yet. To date, women are self-sufficient, but still more women sacrifice their careers for their partners and family than men, so they earn less in general. Also, society hasn't changed its stance on the worth of a woman residing largely in her looks compared to men, which has led most women to spend at least 2-3 times the amount of money and effort the average man does on her appearance. Similarly, society still retains some vestiges of 'chivalry', which dictates that gentlemen pay during the courting phase. To be completely honest, I think that if a man is discriminatory in who he goes out with, the amount of money he would spend on all his first few dates is still far less than the extra amount of money the average woman would spend on her appearance. It's just the way things are. If you overthrow one, do you expect to othera?

Ya but as someone else already said it earlier, women spend tons of more money than they need mostly to show it off to other women rather than to impress men. Most men don't give a crap if the nice purse a woman carries is guess chanel or some chinese knock off. Most men only want women who look clean n pleasing. We don't need women to look glamour like kim kardashian or paris hilton 24/7.

 

Anyway, personally I see myself as a generous person. I throw money at my friends n family. However, family n friends r still gonna be there even if I don't have any money n they don't expect me to spend money on them. So I feel worried about spending money on dating because I don't want anyone to expect me to spend money on her especially since she has her own money. I don't wanna be judged how much I care by how much money I spend. I understand women feel appreciated when men spend money on them. But if I know that u also make as much or more money n u expect me to invest more in the relationship, then I would feel that u don't appreciate me as much as I appreciate u. Maybe if I only want one thing from u then its fine. Ill just consider it simple prostitution. But if I'm going to put emotional investment also, then I need to feel the mutual appreciation. I don't want it to be a business agreement of 'i provide, u supply' as akherousia put it.

[Els]

Ya but as someone else already said it earlier, women spend tons of more money than they need mostly to show it off to other women rather than to impress men. Most men don't give a crap if the nice purse a woman carries is guess chanel or some chinese knock off. Most men only want women who look clean n pleasing. We don't need women to look glamour like kim kardashian or paris hilton 24/7.

 

 

I'm not even talking about Chanel. I said 'average woman'. To look 'pleasing', the average woman still needs to spend 2-3x more time and effort than the average man (both of whom do not buy Salvatore Ferragano or Louis Vuitton). Hairstyling, makeup, skincare and haircare and nailcare products, hair removal, accessories don't come free. Even clothes, women typically spend more on, because a woman usually needs more variety for different situations (ie a man wears a shirt and slacks to a formal dinner, job interview, weddings, etc). A woman usually needs a different set of clothing for all 3 of the above.

 

Trust me, I know. I'm in the students-on-a-budget group, so every bit of $$ counts. The girls spend a far greater portion of their allowance on appearance than the guys do. I spend far less than the average college girl (because I cannot justify spending, for example, $300 every 6 months on chemical hair straightening that 90% of the girls around me get because it produces that nice sleek look that the guys here love), but the amount I spend is still a little more than the average college guy (ie my bf).

Edited November 17, 2010 by Elswyth

[slowmoveguy]

Somehow people want to put cost standards on emotions. Good luck if you expect money to play a role in your relationship.

[Els]

But if I know that u also make as much or more money n u expect me to invest more in the relationship, then I would feel that u don't appreciate me as much as I appreciate u.

 

So, just curious, how would you feel about a woman who splits all dates equally, but doesn't put a single cent or second more (time = money, yeah?) into her appearance compared to you? No waxing, no styling and conditioning for her hair, no makeup, no cleansing toning and moisturising, completely natural nails, tee and jeans or shirt and slacks all the time, one pair of flat-heeled shoes for all occasions. Oh, and you split her BC costs 50/50, of course. That be okay with you?

[musemaj11]

So, just curious, how would you feel about a woman who splits all dates equally, but doesn't put a single cent or second more (time = money, yeah?) into her appearance compared to you? No waxing, no styling and conditioning for her hair, no makeup, no cleansing toning and moisturising, completely natural nails, tee and jeans or shirt and slacks all the time, one pair of flat-heeled shoes for all occasions. Oh, and you split her BC costs 50/50, of course. That be okay with you?

Lol, I understand ur cynicysm. But I'm very sure that I take better care of myself than most men and perhaps many women mainly because to be honest I'm someone who is a bit more on the self conscious side when it comes to how I look.

 

Besides as I said I'm not into women who look like paris hilton all the time. I'm a very down to earth person. I like natural beauty. Women with too 'artificial' a look, remind me of pornstars n I'm not interested in them more than sexually.

Edited November 17, 2010 by musemaj11