A spin-off of the "happily" married thread

[Snowflower]

Some of you might remember a couple of months ago when I announced my fWS and I were separating...just wanted to give a quick update and say that after nearly two months apart halfway across the country from each other, we reconciled. Separation was probably the best thing that we could have done. Our marriage was in a slow death spiral.

 

Several things happened right before and during the separation which made me look at my fWH actions during his affair two years ago in a different light. It's TMI and too long to hash out here but suffice it to say, I learned to look at things differently.

 

Once we reconciled a second time, I had an epiphany recently after reading some of the threads here and doing some reflecting on my own situation with my fWS. One post in particular really cemented it for me when a poster said that her husband "had to work to dislike her in order to have an affair." This made so much sense to me and I had some thoughts that maybe others will find helpful, whether you are a BS, OP, or WS.

 

I often read here on LS that the MM/MW has to lie to themselves most of all in the affair. It made sense to me but I never realized how much until recently. Take my fWH for example...there was the perfect storm of other life changes/crises the couple of years before his affair. One thing that is common in so many affairs is the role outside crises play in the vulnerability of at least one of the spouses. He had been work friends with the OW for a couple of years before the affair and he allowed something to change at some point.

 

Then the lies began...but mostly to himself. I have always maintained that my H didn't lie all that much to me in his affair because he really didn't. Like that other poster said, he had to convince/fool/lie to himself that our marriage wasn't right. On another thread here, there is a discussion about whether happily married people cheat--my husband was not happily married so that was his justification. He never really bashed me personally, for some reason he couldn't do that, but he could bash our marriage. And he regularly did so...internally...to the OW...and to me directly.

 

So, I can understand why his OW could allow herself to enter an affair because she was already separated from her STBX and believed that my H was about to do the same thing. But, he continued to lie to himself and to her, but not intentionally. He had to work very hard to convince himself that our marriage was never right and that it had ended years ago.

 

Why do I understand this? Because he was telling ME the same things he was telling himself and the OW. I thought he had lost his mind. I was completely baffled by his abrupt changes because I had known this man for so long. The OW was at a disadvantage and while they were friends, she hadn't lived with him for 18 years! She could more readily believe his assertions that his marriage to me was dead. She didn't know any better and I'm sure he had to be convincing in order for him to believe it himself. I don't think he was ever able to quite convince himself.

 

The behavior I saw from my H during his brief affair was completely baffling. It was like he built up this insane fantasy in his mind and the OW bought it. I was so confused because he had done an "about face" about our entire lives and future together over a few months' time.

 

So, I read similar stories from other BS's and then the confusion and heartbreak from the OP's after the MP abruptly leaves them to return to the marriage.

 

I don't think most MM's are diabolical, evil people who want to hurt the two women in the affair triangle. I don't even really buy into the "selfishness" idea. Everyone is selfish. Rather, most MP's have a combination of poor coping skills and limited self-awareness which can manifest itself in all sorts of destructive ways.

 

Thoughts? Anyone can weigh in on this who have been a WS, BS or AP. And I hope that some of what I write is comfort to some of you.

 

But, thank you to that poster who pointed out that a MP has to lie to themselves most convincingly that they must really dislike their BS or flawed marriage. You really helped me...I don't want to call you by name but I hope you know who you are! PM me if you wish!

 

I am at peace now. It's been two years this month since d-day. My H and I are happy together and bad things that happened can finally be put to rest.

Edited November 12, 2010 by Snowflower

[BB07]

I'm happy for you snowflower and your husband should appreciate what a thoughtful and forgiving person you are.

[greengoddess]

What a great post. It really shows how much you have learned and come to accept because of how well you understand this now. I am sure this post will go on to help a lot of people. Really nice. thanks for sharing this.

 

Question. Did the seperation really wake him up to how he was recreating everything in his mind?

[Fight4Me]

Sounds so much like what I've said, and have heard others say. I even use the term "the perfect storm," which couldn't have been a more apt description. Yes, our fWH's should have weathered that storm, insulated themselves from their own lies, and nobody beats themselves up more than they do about that. If they didn't, there'd be no remorse or ownership.

 

I'm really happy for you Snowflower! I've always identified with your posts, and it's strangely comforting to find someone else like that.

[Snowflower]

What a great post. It really shows how much you have learned and come to accept because of how well you understand this now. I am sure this post will go on to help a lot of people. Really nice. thanks for sharing this.

 

Thank you and to BB07 for the kind words.

 

Question. Did the seperation really wake him up to how he was recreating everything in his mind?

 

Recreating? As in what happened two years ago? Yes, he displayed similar behavior right before the separation. No affair this time though. And the separation (which I told him we should consider making permanent because of the geographical distance) really woke him up to what he was losing. You think this would have happened after d-day.

[Snowflower]

Sounds so much like what I've said, and have heard others say. I even use the term "the perfect storm," which couldn't have been a more apt description. Yes, our fWH's should have weathered that storm, insulated themselves from their own lies, and nobody beats themselves up more than they do about that. If they didn't, there'd be no remorse or ownership.

 

I'm really happy for you Snowflower! I've always identified with your posts, and it's strangely comforting to find someone else like that.

 

Thank you F4M, I'm glad you understand.

[Spark1111]

Thank you and to BB07 for the kind words.

 

 

 

Recreating? As in what happened two years ago? Yes, he displayed similar behavior right before the separation. No affair this time though. And the separation (which I told him we should consider making permanent because of the geographical distance) really woke him up to what he was losing. You think this would have happened after d-day.

 

This is exactly the behavior I will not ignore today. I confront him, his actions, his words, when I see the smallest evidence of poor coping skills re-emerging or uncalled for blame of ANYTHING being cast in my direction.

 

These are the same characteristics that exhibited BIG TIME before the affair and they make me feel unsafe.

 

All, which may be unfair to my remorseful H, but that is the way it is for me now, and I am very sure to speak up about it and to try and resolve it.

 

I didn't cause it, cannot control it, but will no longer tolerate it in this relationship.

 

I will not feel sorry for HIM anymore, because that enabled the poor coping skills that led to his affair and finding a partner who told him how wonderful he was, which is easy when there are no obligations besides "having fun".

 

He is always looking for my approval and will become defensive very quickly if he senses I am upset. But we will NOT avoid conflict in this relationship anymore, and I am NOT the disapproving mother he grew up with.

 

We work daily, sometimes beautifully, sometimes frustratingly, towards bettering our communication skills with each other.

 

Kudos to you Snow! I sense your strength. I sense your boundaries growing stronger Keep it up! I'm pulling for you two big time.

[Snowflower]

This is exactly the behavior I will not ignore today. I confront him, his actions, his words, when I see the smallest evidence of poor coping skills re-emerging or uncalled for blame of ANYTHING being cast in my direction.

 

These are the same characteristics that exhibited BIG TIME before the affair and they make me feel unsafe.

 

All, which may be unfair to my remorseful H, but that is the way it is for me now, and I am very sure to speak up about it and to try and resolve it.

 

I didn't cause it, cannot control it, but will no longer tolerate it in this relationship.

 

I will not feel sorry for HIM anymore, because that enabled the poor coping skills that led to his affair and finding a partner who told him how wonderful he was, which is easy when there are no obligations besides "having fun".

 

He is always looking for my approval and will become defensive very quickly if he senses I am upset. But we will NOT avoid conflict in this relationship anymore, and I am NOT the disapproving mother he grew up with.

 

We work daily, sometimes beautifully, sometimes frustratingly, towards bettering our communication skills with each other.

 

Kudos to you Snow! I sense your strength. I sense your boundaries growing stronger Keep it up! I'm pulling for you two big time.

 

Thanks! I knew you'd understand!

 

When we separated again, I realized that I was too easy or too nice to my H the first time around. We had worked very hard to fix what went wrong and we were largely successful the first time around.

 

But, there were still some issues for us under the surface and I didn't have good boundaries with him. It took 18 months for me to fully realize this and I even talked to a counselor again who pointed this out. I'm just more street-smart now. I told him to stay away and meant it and since he was at a disadvantage geographically, he had to figure out what he needed to do to reassure me.

 

It was a lot more difficult this time since he couldn't just show up at our house to see me (like he did during our brief separation after d-day). He would have had to get on a plane to do this. It made him think, reassess, and change.

[2sure]

I am pleased for you and agree with all that you have learned. My situation did not result in a reconciliation...but I did learn the same things you have. Infidelity does not need to be the end of a marriage and although mine ended...it wasnt because of the infidelity...it was because my x just wasnt going to ....I guess he found cheating an easier and less

and less emotionally difficult for him to look harder and deeper within himself.

 

And on that, I have to disagree - or at least I still do now - I think it was selfish of him not to do the hard work, to sacrifice me instead.

[Snowflower]

I am pleased for you and agree with all that you have learned. My situation did not result in a reconciliation...but I did learn the same things you have. Infidelity does not need to be the end of a marriage and although mine ended...it wasnt because of the infidelity...it was because my x just wasnt going to ....I guess he found cheating an easier and less

and less emotionally difficult for him to look harder and deeper within himself.

 

And on that, I have to disagree - or at least I still do now - I think it was selfish of him not to do the hard work, to sacrifice me instead.

 

2Sure, you know you don't want him if he wouldn't do the hard work on himself. He did sacrifice you and your marriage and what would have or could have been a very happy, fulfilling and rich (not necessarily monetary) life he could have had with you.

 

He took the easy way out and will continue to do this unless he gains some self-awareness. I told my H something similar when he was going to run from our marriage (again). Not to another woman because that would have been the end but he was running from himself.

 

I told him "see ya"

 

Something tells me that great things are in store for you 2Sure. I definitely think you will find the happiness that you deserve.

[2sure]

Something tells me that great things are in store for you 2Sure. I definitely think you will find the happiness that you deserve.

 

Hey, it took me quite some time to realize the X was a serial cheater...so obviously I'm a Die Hard Optimist! I'll be OK, gettin there.

[Spark1111]

I am pleased for you and agree with all that you have learned. My situation did not result in a reconciliation...but I did learn the same things you have. Infidelity does not need to be the end of a marriage and although mine ended...it wasnt because of the infidelity...it was because my x just wasnt going to ....I guess he found cheating an easier and less

and less emotionally difficult for him to look harder and deeper within himself.

 

And on that, I have to disagree - or at least I still do now - I think it was selfish of him not to do the hard work, to sacrifice me instead.

 

This is it in a nutshell! If they are truly remorseful they will be motivated to change the behaviors that led them to destructive behaviors.

 

They have to be willing to introspect and do this. NO easy task!

 

Some people have so many defense mechanisms to justify their poor coping skills they can NEVER get there.

 

This is what is meant by the WS, who desires reconciliation, to be willing to do the "heavy-lifting." Obviously, it is a whole helluva lot more than, "I'm sorry I hurt you. I promise to never do it again."

 

It should be a life-altering change in behavior, if done correctly, and unfortunately, few have the courage and resolve to change their internal weaknesses into strengths.

 

That's why they repeat the same patterns over and over and over again.

[Snowflower]

This is it in a nutshell! If they are truly remorseful they will be motivated to change the behaviors that led them to destructive behaviors.

 

They have to be willing to introspect and do this. NO easy task!

 

Some people have so many defense mechanisms to justify their poor coping skills they can NEVER get there.

 

This is what is meant by the WS, who desires reconciliation, to be willing to do the "heavy-lifting." Obviously, it is a whole helluva lot more than, "I'm sorry I hurt you. I promise to never do it again."

 

It should be a life-altering change in behavior, if done correctly, and unfortunately, few have the courage and resolve to change their internal weaknesses into strengths.

 

That's why they repeat the same patterns over and over and over again.

 

It's why I've come to the conclusion that a lack of self-awareness is what leads some people to cheat. Other issues like conflict avoidance, low self esteem and childhood issues can often be added into the mix.

 

But without self-awareness, a WS will continue to think they behaved badly and have no reason/incentive to try to figure it all out. They will have the "it just happened" mindset and are at higher risk for a repeat affair.

 

It's why I insisted that my husband figure himself out if our marriage was to continue.

[seren]

No wisdom, just a huge Hooray for you and you hubby Snowflower. Great news xx

[Bittersweetie]

Then the lies began...but mostly to himself.

 

I relate to this thought. I'm a WS, and have gone through a lot of introspection in the year since d-day. I realize I did lie to myself...at some point (well before the A) I wondered if my H really cared about me. I began to think he didn't, and therefore I painted every questionable action of his with that color. He acted this or that way because he must've not cared about me, etc...even the things he DID for me, I painted with my own reasoning! When in reality either it wasn't that way at all...he was just moving through life...I was the one seeing things, convincing myself, lying to myself. I rewrote my marital history without even consciously realizing I was doing it, and it allowed me in my head to be okay with looking for and having feelings for another man.

 

It's why I've come to the conclusion that a lack of self-awareness is what leads some people to cheat.

 

I've been working on this a lot. My H and I are reconciling and like you, Snowflower, he wanted me to figure out why I did what I did. He calls it "peeling the onion layers." I wanted validation, to be cared about, newness...but I knew that wasn't everything. To make such a horrible and hurtful choice like I did wasn't just because I wanted to hear I was pretty or something. It's hard work. I do think I am getting closer to my deepest issues...I am in IC, though I am tending to figure out things better on my own. But the truth is I don't want to cheat again, hurt my H or myself like that again, so my goal is to learn as much as I can about why I did this, and get my sh*t together so I become a stronger and healthier person.

 

This is exactly the behavior I will not ignore today.

 

I totally understand this too! I've actually told my H, if I start acting like I used to, call me on it. And he does...he'll say, "You seem far." And usually it's because I've been worrying about my schooling or getting a job, and I realize I can share those thoughts with him, and then we end up feeling closer.

 

I don't know if I contributed much here, but I just wanted to say, from the WS perspective, I related to your thoughts. I consider myself a zillion times grateful to have a H who is willing to try to reconcile with me. Thank you for your insights.

[Fight4Me]

I relate to this thought. I'm a WS, and have gone through a lot of introspection in the year since d-day. I realize I did lie to myself...at some point (well before the A) I wondered if my H really cared about me. I began to think he didn't, and therefore I painted every questionable action of his with that color. He acted this or that way because he must've not cared about me, etc...even the things he DID for me, I painted with my own reasoning! When in reality either it wasn't that way at all...he was just moving through life...I was the one seeing things, convincing myself, lying to myself. I rewrote my marital history without even consciously realizing I was doing it, and it allowed me in my head to be okay with looking for and having feelings for another man.

 

 

 

I've been working on this a lot. My H and I are reconciling and like you, Snowflower, he wanted me to figure out why I did what I did. He calls it "peeling the onion layers." I wanted validation, to be cared about, newness...but I knew that wasn't everything. To make such a horrible and hurtful choice like I did wasn't just because I wanted to hear I was pretty or something. It's hard work. I do think I am getting closer to my deepest issues...I am in IC, though I am tending to figure out things better on my own. But the truth is I don't want to cheat again, hurt my H or myself like that again, so my goal is to learn as much as I can about why I did this, and get my sh*t together so I become a stronger and healthier person.

 

 

 

I totally understand this too! I've actually told my H, if I start acting like I used to, call me on it. And he does...he'll say, "You seem far." And usually it's because I've been worrying about my schooling or getting a job, and I realize I can share those thoughts with him, and then we end up feeling closer.

 

I don't know if I contributed much here, but I just wanted to say, from the WS perspective, I related to your thoughts. I consider myself a zillion times grateful to have a H who is willing to try to reconcile with me. Thank you for your insights.

 

You contributed a great deal, and I think I speak for many of us when I say unique, honest perspectives like yours are very helpful and greatly desired around here. Welcome to LS. I hope you stick around and continue to contribute!

[Snowflower]

I relate to this thought. I'm a WS, and have gone through a lot of introspection in the year since d-day. I realize I did lie to myself...at some point (well before the A) I wondered if my H really cared about me. I began to think he didn't, and therefore I painted every questionable action of his with that color. He acted this or that way because he must've not cared about me, etc...even the things he DID for me, I painted with my own reasoning! When in reality either it wasn't that way at all...he was just moving through life...I was the one seeing things, convincing myself, lying to myself. I rewrote my marital history without even consciously realizing I was doing it, and it allowed me in my head to be okay with looking for and having feelings for another man.

 

Hi Bittersweetie, I am sure my fWH could relate to what you wrote. It sounds almost exactly what he said to me during his affair and after d-day.

 

He was very convincing at that time, heck, he even had me somewhat convinced. We had long talks about it afterward as we reconciled. He still harbors certain feelings about how he felt when he began to justify his actions. I now think that it was how he thought it would be okay for him to become "too friendly" with a work colleague.

 

 

 

 

I've been working on this a lot. My H and I are reconciling and like you, Snowflower, he wanted me to figure out why I did what I did. He calls it "peeling the onion layers." I wanted validation, to be cared about, newness...but I knew that wasn't everything. To make such a horrible and hurtful choice like I did wasn't just because I wanted to hear I was pretty or something. It's hard work. I do think I am getting closer to my deepest issues...I am in IC, though I am tending to figure out things better on my own. But the truth is I don't want to cheat again, hurt my H or myself like that again, so my goal is to learn as much as I can about why I did this, and get my sh*t together so I become a stronger and healthier person.

 

I think this is key...understanding why you did what you did. Do you share your thoughts and insights with your husband? It will probably be very reassuring to him if you are able to do this. It will likely bring you closer to him and in turn, he might share things with you (not just affair-related but other things that are deeply personal to him). It can be the foundation of a new, very strong relationship.

 

 

 

I don't know if I contributed much here, but I just wanted to say, from the WS perspective, I related to your thoughts. I consider myself a zillion times grateful to have a H who is willing to try to reconcile with me. Thank you for your insights.

 

You definitely contributed! Thank you for your sharing your thoughts. I really appreciated your contribution. Good luck in your reconciliation.

[Snowflower]

Watch your back, nevertheless.

 

Thank you for the reminder! I'm no longer naive and I learned to trust myself the most. This is a very good thing really and I learned it was a 'gift' of sorts that I gave myself. The heightened awareness serves me well in other areas of my life.

[aeh]

Congratulations Snowflower!! So happy for you.

 

This short two page thread is one of the best I have read on LS in a long time. VERY informative and thought provoking from all.

[kuma]

Thank you for the reminder! I'm no longer naive and I learned to trust myself the most. This is a very good thing really and I learned it was a 'gift' of sorts that I gave myself. The heightened awareness serves me well in other areas of my life.

 

I'm not a BS, but I totally agree with you. No relationship is guaranteed to last forever. I think it's important to trust ourselves so we can take charge of our own lives. Congratulations on your reconciliation with your husband!

[NoIDidn't]

Snowflower, I'm so happy for you and your H. I'm happy because of what you have learned and knowing that you aren't going back naive and unprepared this go around.

 

I really agree with you that most often the MP isn't being "selfish" but truly emotionally confused. There is often an element of emotional exhaustion around affairs, at least when one begins one, that makes the MP embarking on one unable sometimes to make the better decision and avoid it altogether.

 

The deaths of family members, births of children, and just general stresses on my family completely foretold the story that we lived out before, during, and after his EA. And I understand that I am not immune from one myself. But I have more tools available to either avoid that pitfall or back away from it sooner after one starts.

 

Good luck. I'm so glad that you were able to glean something from this interesting place.

[Snowflower]

Congratulations Snowflower!! So happy for you.

 

This short two page thread is one of the best I have read on LS in a long time. VERY informative and thought provoking from all.

 

Glad it was helpful.

 

I'm not a BS, but I totally agree with you. No relationship is guaranteed to last forever. I think it's important to trust ourselves so we can take charge of our own lives. Congratulations on your reconciliation with your husband!

 

Exactly. There are no guarantees in life, including relationships. But that's okay.

 

Snowflower, I'm so happy for you and your H. I'm happy because of what you have learned and knowing that you aren't going back naive and unprepared this go around.

 

I really agree with you that most often the MP isn't being "selfish" but truly emotionally confused. There is often an element of emotional exhaustion around affairs, at least when one begins one, that makes the MP embarking on one unable sometimes to make the better decision and avoid it altogether.

 

The deaths of family members, births of children, and just general stresses on my family completely foretold the story that we lived out before, during, and after his EA. And I understand that I am not immune from one myself. But I have more tools available to either avoid that pitfall or back away from it sooner after one starts.

 

Good luck. I'm so glad that you were able to glean something from this interesting place.

 

Thank you, NID. I understand what you mean. I think the emotional exhaustion continues throughout many affairs which is evidenced by the confusion, the wishy-washy behavior and poor decision making by the WS.

 

Thanks for your post.

[PhoenixRise]

Snowflower

 

 

I am really happy that you and your husband are back on track. As painful as affairs are and as hard as recovery is, you really can come out of it stronger, more aware, and with a much stronger marriage than ever before.

 

And the key to healing and reconciliation is being perfectly willing to live HAPPILY without them if they don't do the work necessary to give you the relationship you deserve and desire.

 

Bravo.

[silktricks]

Hey Snow - I'm so glad to hear that you and your hubby are reconciling - and doing it right this time.

 

I don't have much to add but for us, what at least triggered much of the problems was getting self-centered while we each suffered through some major illnesses. Unfortunately, we are again experiencing some major illnesses, but this time we each have a completely different attitude. I understand his fear of losing me and he can now understand the other side as well. If we hadn't gone through the past problems, we probably would not be able to weather this bout.

 

I never thought I'd say that I was glad about what happened, but through it we gained the closeness we now have, and that is life sustaining.

 

Silk

[wheelwright]

Some of you might remember a couple of months ago when I announced my fWS and I were separating...just wanted to give a quick update and say that after nearly two months apart halfway across the country from each other, we reconciled. Separation was probably the best thing that we could have done. Our marriage was in a slow death spiral.

 

 

Happy for you Snowflower. Good luck in the future.