Untouchable_Fire Posted January 3, 2011 Posted January 3, 2011 UF, on one hand I agree with zengirl. Being a happy+positive person HAS TO be completely independant of all events that you experience. Otherwise the particular person will ride a see-saw dependant on where they are happiness and success-wise. A person would have to become very successful to be very happy if they didn't break free of the pattern. /buddhism On the other hand, talking about rape and negative experiences and then equating "rape" to relationship turmoil things is a giant logical leap. We are not talking about overall happiness in life. I can be happy as hell with my life, but depressed about my dating situation. Just as I can be nice to people in most aspects of life and mean in others. You know full well I was not equating rape to a negative relationship!
Yer_Blues Posted January 3, 2011 Posted January 3, 2011 I don't disagree with learning from experience. I do disagree with using bad actions to feel better or get "better" results. Really, bad deeds cannot bring truly good results. And those who insist they can will always be fundamentally unhappy in some way. Honestly, being good IS its own reward, just like being happy is its own reward. I'm not saying anyone should lack self-respect or let others mistreat them. Sure, turn the other cheek occasionally, but most of the time, just learn to stay away from toxic people. A surefire way to keep yourself near toxic people and toxic situations is to do bad and toxic things yourself. Just because conditioning 'happens' doesn't make it the good or right thing to do. We are capable of being creatures of integrity and worth, or capable of heeding our baser instincts, or vast wealths in between. But nobody can call themselves "Good" and then knowingly do bad, and no bad experiences --- whether they're as piddly as rejection or as massive as rape and torture --- turn someone into a person who will knowingly inflict pain upon others or be careless with others. It's a choice. Now, some people have an easier time -- an easier life, and it's easy for them to be happy. I get that. But that doesn't mean that everyone doesn't have the power to choose to take the high road. Fantastic post. One thought that came to mind is whether or not people can actually live "easier" lives than others. I'm not sure coming to terms with this world and its conditions is ever easy for anybody. Challenges are different and seemingly of different magnitudes, but given that our concepts of what is difficult or easy, painful or pleasurable, are largely relative to our experiences and environment, I'm not sure how easy it is to judge such challenges. Is a person living without electricity, running water, and modern medicine living a more challenging life than a Westerner, or simply a different one? A person who has never felt pain would likely find the experience of a paper cut to be excruciating, whereas a person who has passed a kidney stone wouldn't flinch. I'm rambling aimlessly and haven't drawn any conclusions on this issue myself, but it's interesting to me.
catgotyourtongue Posted January 3, 2011 Posted January 3, 2011 ZEN So agree with so much of what you said, and was about to post something along the lines...but you said it so well, and clearly (better than I could have), I am just going to say, I agree. AND thanks for your inciteful posts, so well written and I always get something out of them. Nod my head and say "yup, I agree"..... Maybe it's cause your name is zengirl and I like Buddhism, lol...but you say a lot of deep and well thought out things. I don't disagree with learning from experience. I do disagree with using bad actions to feel better or get "better" results. Really, bad deeds cannot bring truly good results. And those who insist they can will always be fundamentally unhappy in some way. Honestly, being good IS its own reward, just like being happy is its own reward. I'm not saying anyone should lack self-respect or let others mistreat them. Sure, turn the other cheek occasionally, but most of the time, just learn to stay away from toxic people. A surefire way to keep yourself near toxic people and toxic situations is to do bad and toxic things yourself. Just because conditioning 'happens' doesn't make it the good or right thing to do. We are capable of being creatures of integrity and worth, or capable of heeding our baser instincts, or vast wealths in between. But nobody can call themselves "Good" and then knowingly do bad, and no bad experiences --- whether they're as piddly as rejection or as massive as rape and torture --- turn someone into a person who will knowingly inflict pain upon others or be careless with others. It's a choice. Now, some people have an easier time -- an easier life, and it's easy for them to be happy. I get that. But that doesn't mean that everyone doesn't have the power to choose to take the high road.
dispatch3d Posted January 3, 2011 Posted January 3, 2011 We are not talking about overall happiness in life. I can be happy as hell with my life, but depressed about my dating situation. Just as I can be nice to people in most aspects of life and mean in others. You know full well I was not equating rape to a negative relationship! Lol if you aren't equating rape to negative relationships then why are you acting so defensive!! (Note joking aside: The rape comment is actually addressed at zengirls side of the argument not yours, although I appreciate your sentiments against rape)
zengirl Posted January 3, 2011 Posted January 3, 2011 Lol if you aren't equating rape to negative relationships then why are you acting so defensive!! (Note joking aside: The rape comment is actually addressed at zengirls side of the argument not yours, although I appreciate your sentiments against rape) I'm not equating rape to negative relationships either, just addressing what UF said about both in a broader perspective. UF brought it up, so I went with the discussion where it was going. Obviously, they are not the same. Nor do I see how you could see me "equating" them, as in making them equal.
alexlakeman Posted January 3, 2011 Posted January 3, 2011 Good woman? needs to be a low mileage unit, have at least an undergrad degree, maintain her figure, manicures, no veins popping out of her legs or hands, no wrinkles around the eyes, and her hair has to be longer than mines; but most important "LOW miles"..
lino Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 It's not quite that simple. I've yet to meet or hear of a single drug dealer, serious criminal or very violent guy in general that's gone his whole life without a woman. I've known and heard of several genuinely nice guys go decades or their entire lives without even having kissed a girl.
TheWatcher Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 It's not quite that simple. I've yet to meet or hear of a single drug dealer, serious criminal or very violent guy in general that's gone his whole life without a woman. I've known and heard of several genuinely nice guys go decades or their entire lives without even having kissed a girl. You speak the truth brother....the 100 % absolute truth.I'm in no way saying that you should emulate the behaviour of criminal or violent person but there is some truth to what you wrote. I think that it all boils down to women (generally) wanting a challenge,spontaneity & mystery.They wish to be entertained.
carhill Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 I think that it all boils down to women (generally) wanting a challenge,spontaneity & mystery.They wish to be entertained. I heard this, almost verbatim, recently from a woman, relating it to herself. The good news is, with her attractiveness, it will likely go on for some time; then, absent change, I predict she will find herself alone and will realize her greatest fear, that of being alone. One can only take so much from life before the books get balanced. Personally, I'd qualify 'generally' with 'some', as I feel this is not the predominant perspective amongst women about life and/or men. The key is, when encountering it, to accept it and to resist the fog of attractiveness overshadowing the clarity of the moment, as enticing as that fog might be.
Woggle Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 It's not quite that simple. I've yet to meet or hear of a single drug dealer, serious criminal or very violent guy in general that's gone his whole life without a woman. I've known and heard of several genuinely nice guys go decades or their entire lives without even having kissed a girl. This is true. I was never much of a criminal but I spent a portion of my life hanging around the criminal element and none of these guys were ever starved for female affection. I knew this guy that sold drugs and he could literally call up a woman and tell her do an errand for him and she would to it and be as sweet as a puppy about it. He had a harem of women who would do literally anything for him pretty much nothing in return. Do you really think that your average nice guy could have that kind of sway over a woman?
lino Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 This is true. I was never much of a criminal but I spent a portion of my life hanging around the criminal element and none of these guys were ever starved for female affection. I knew this guy that sold drugs and he could literally call up a woman and tell her do an errand for him and she would to it and be as sweet as a puppy about it. He had a harem of women who would do literally anything for him pretty much nothing in return. Do you really think that your average nice guy could have that kind of sway over a woman? Yep... That's how it pretty much works. I've seen it & heard of it pretty much every day since I was in my teens. Anyone who denies it is either kidding themselves or has grown up in a very protected & sheltered part of society. I suspect the latter is the case with several female members on this message board. Ever notice how guys that are notorious for beating women are never short of females to bash? Funny that!
Woggle Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 Yep... That's how it pretty much works. I've seen it & heard of it pretty much every day since I was in my teens. Anyone who denies it is either kidding themselves or has grown up in a very protected & sheltered part of society. I suspect the latter is the case with several female members on this message board. Ever notice how guys that are notorious for beating women are never short of females to bash? Funny that! Ike Turner had tons of girlfriends after he divorced Tina Turner. Charlie Sheen has a bunch of women chasing after him and Phil Spector got married while he was on trial for murder. OJ Simpson also had plenty of girlfriends.
Cracker Jack Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 I never understood how abusers (I've known a few women who were actually aware of what the abuser used to do to other women, but that only seemed to peak their interest) would be known as such, yet still have no issues getting women. Now, as desperate as I feel when it comes to companionship, I would never become a verbal/physical abuser just to hopefully increase my chances with women. It's pathetic, in my opinion.
Mad Max Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 The women in those cases are sick in the head and have major issues. Sadly, there's a few here at LS that are just like that.
Woggle Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 I never understood how abusers (I've known a few women who were actually aware of what the abuser used to do to other women, but that only seemed to peak their interest) would be known as such, yet still have no issues getting women. Now, as desperate as I feel when it comes to companionship, I would never become a verbal/physical abuser just to hopefully increase my chances with women. It's pathetic, in my opinion. I would never want a woman that likes abusers. It's good to just have self respect and hold out for a woman that deserves the good guy side of you.
lino Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 Well it's hard to use celebrities as examples because any rich & famous guy can pull women, no matter what sort of character he has. My statements are based on what I've seen in real life nearly everyday. The type of guys I'm talking about aren't famous and if they have any money it's either from selling drugs or from theft. I've never, ever seen these types of blokes without a woman... Never.
Woggle Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 Well it's hard to use celebrities as examples because any rich & famous guy can pull women, no matter what sort of character he has. My statements are based on what I've seen in real life nearly everyday. The type of guys I'm talking about aren't famous and if they have any money it's either from selling drugs or from theft. I've never, ever seen these types of blokes without a woman... Never. I know. In fact I know a guy who lives in an RV, has worse manners than a caveman and drinks like a fish yet somehow always has a woman around.
Jannah Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 I know. In fact I know a guy who lives in an RV, has worse manners than a caveman and drinks like a fish yet somehow always has a woman around. I don't doubt it. But I bet most of the women are missing teeth.
Cracker Jack Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 I would never want a woman that likes abusers. It's good to just have self respect and hold out for a woman that deserves the good guy side of you. Agreed. That's about all I can do at this point.
dreamingoftigers Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 I have a question. I am not saying that there aren't good guys on here. But what makes the lot of you think that you are entitled to a "good," "low mileage" woman? What would you have to offer her that dozens of other interested men don't?
carhill Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 But what makes the lot of you think that you are entitled to a "good," "low mileage" woman? I personally don't feel 'entitled' but, if by 'low mileage', lower numbers of sexual partners versus age is inferred, my opinion is that such a perspective would be more compatible with my perspective, also predicated upon lower numbers of partners. So, essentially, I offer one significant aspect of compatibility, that being a unanimity of perspective regarding the confluence of intimacy and sex. All of my partners have been 'high mileage' (I don't consider women to be 'cars' but continuing the prior analogy) and the results admittedly less than satisfying in the intimacy department so, what the heck, try something different.
GoodOnPaper Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 What would you have to offer her that dozens of other interested men don't? It would seem absolutely nothing according to my track record when single -- I quickly learned to avoid competitive situations. What I considered to be my best attributes had no value whatsoever on the dating market. It always came down to looks and charisma which I apparently didn't have. I think the you-must-earn-love model is rather flawed, though. I didn't do anything to attract my wife and wasn't even interested in doing so, yet she stuck like glue. I went along with the relationship to try and figure out what she saw, but to this day it's a mystery . . .
Mad Max Posted January 4, 2011 Posted January 4, 2011 What would you have to offer her that dozens of other interested men don't? I'm good looking, charasmatic, have a good job, self-respect, not hypocritical when it comes to sexual partners, and hold myself to a high standard.
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