Divorce - What have we really lost?

[HopelessinDTW]

I was thinking about why I feel such a sense of loss during my time of separation and eventual divorce. What I actually list the important things in my life, it doesn't add up.

 

Loss - my marriage, my wife, not putting kids to bed every night, some friends (the ones that were lied to by stbx).

 

Not Lost/Gained - Still have kids most of the time (in fact time spent with them is more quality time then before), still have my house, job, physical health is better (lost 40 lbs, run like a madman of treadmill), my family, my real friends, my faith in God, more free time to do things I'm interested in.

 

So why do I feel like I've lost everything, when clearly I haven't? Sometimes I think to myself that my marriage defined who I was! And that really bothers me...if it's true. It's almost like I lost a part of my own existance...like a part of me got stolen, and now I have to find it or replace it with something else? Can someone explain how I feel???

[naiveorblind]

For me it was not so much a sense of loss as it was a sense of failure. The married life I had devoted so much time to was for nothing. I think these feelings, these wounds are totally normal and with time will heal. Not sure how long you've been divorced, but for me, it took a good year to year and a half to truly heal....best of luck in your journey..

[iheartboobs]

I know how you feel. It sucks to lose, and that's what we did.

 

We picked loser wives because they looked good and acted right. By the time we realized what they were it was too late, and we were in too deep. Instead of cutting our losses we did the "right" thing and stuck it out, changed ourselves, and tried to make our wives happy. Instead of making them happy they just became more and more depressed because you can't make someone be happy, they have to be happy themselves. Of course, they blamed us for being the reason they were always so depressed and, not knowing any better, we believed them. They made us feel like failures and then left us.

 

I know why you and I feel like losers... but you can't let emotion rule you, you may feel like a loser, but you have to know that you're not. I remind myself every time I start to feel that way that I never have to put up with her crap again, but she's going to have to live with it for the rest of her life.

 

Buck up, man. When you look at it like that, you can see that you actually came out ahead.

[andrew-bkk]

I know how you feel. It sucks to lose, and that's what we did.

 

We picked loser wives because they looked good and acted right. By the time we realized what they were it was too late, and we were in too deep. Instead of cutting our losses we did the "right" thing and stuck it out, changed ourselves, and tried to make our wives happy. Instead of making them happy they just became more and more depressed because you can't make someone be happy, they have to be happy themselves. Of course, they blamed us for being the reason they were always so depressed and, not knowing any better, we believed them. They made us feel like failures and then left us.

 

I know why you and I feel like losers... but you can't let emotion rule you, you may feel like a loser, but you have to know that you're not. I remind myself every time I start to feel that way that I never have to put up with her crap again, but she's going to have to live with it for the rest of her life.

 

That's a very astute post.

 

I've just gotten over my ten and a half year relationship. All said and done, it took about three months.

 

And yes -- at first, I had very low self esteem and felt like a loser.

 

Now, though, I see the light: the mild depression that I experienced when I was with her has magically vanished; I'm happier than I've been for ages; I walk taller; and I walk with pride.

 

I'm a man again.

 

And yes -- with enormous clarity I see that it is she and not I who is the loser. I will continue to move on; but she will forever be flawed.

 

As to whether or not she see things likewise, or even understands the complexities and dynamics of adult relationships, who cares.

[carhill]

Only significant observation I'd make is that incompatible is a less emotionally charged word than 'loser'.

 

For myself, I lost little of who I was and gained a lot of who I am. I'm no more or less a 'loser' than my exW.

 

Most of my emotional content came from and comes from my own frustrations with not seeing and decisively and healthfully acting on those incompatibilities in real time. Retrospective frustration.

 

Everyone has their path in life. Once in awhile those paths match up. It is what it is, and all too soon it's over. That's the real loss, not having another opportunity to live.

[andrew-bkk]

Only significant observation I'd make is that incompatible is a less emotionally charged word than 'loser'.

 

For myself, I lost little of who I was and gained a lot of who I am. I'm no more or less a 'loser' than my exW.

 

That too is a good comment.

 

Ultimately, it's all about healing.

 

Put it this way, in the early stages of separation I got pleasure from telling my ex that this house is now cleaner than it ever was when she was here. Ditto the garden. That hurt her, and I felt good.

 

Now, I keep things in good order out of self respect. She no longer enters the equation.

 

At first I was devastated; then I missed here; then I hated her; currently I view her as a loser.

 

But with the fullness of time, I hope to reach a point where I can talk objectively about how we were incompatible. Nothing more; nothing less.

[HopelessinDTW]

I appreciate all your comments and advice. I am too starting to do things for myself, more so than ever before to redefine me. I do feel I lost a part of me in the separation, but I am also finding as I do more things for myself and take pride in even the smallest accomplishments...I feel some of 'me' coming back (i.e more confidence, optimism, happiness). In the marriage, it was all about what was best for the family, kids, etc....I always put my self interests/wants last, and most of the time never got around to what I wanted. Not trying to sound self-serving, but that's how I was raised.

 

Whenever I talk with my therapist, I always talk about how bad I feel about the kids, the marriage going down hill, etc. One time he stopped me and asked, so what is it that YOU need to feel better. I couldn't answer him, but only could say that my 'happiness' came from knowing I was doing best as I could for the kids and the family as a whole, and not anything I was doing only for me. Answering his question made me realize that I needed to focus more on me, and figure out what needs I have and what I need to do to make me happy. My original question was really to see how others have dealt with the feeling of losing one's self as a results of separation/divorce. I guess I am still at the stage where I have self-blame, and not at the stage where I can just let the past be what it is and look forward?

[USCGAviator]

I feel the same gains and losses as you. Present time I only get angry about her creating a broken home for our children. Most of the time I'm happy and healing quite well. I'm having a blast and really enjoying life.

 

I married at 20 and she was 19. I'm pretty sure the only thing we really had in common was a great sexual relationship.

 

Talking about it is the best medicine. I tried a counselor but he was happily married and could not relate to how I felt. Talking with my father and a coworker who was going through a similar divorce was quite healing.

Edited November 10, 2010 by USCGAviator

[andrew-bkk]

My original question was really to see how others have dealt with the feeling of losing one's self as a results of separation/divorce. I guess I am still at the stage where I have self-blame, and not at the stage where I can just let the past be what it is and look forward?

 

I dealt with it by getting drunk. But I also exercised; and I also ate as well as I could.

 

There are probably a million people out there who will feed you garbage such as.........

 

1. it takes time

2. you just gotta hang in there and things will pick up

3. focus on you -- soon things will get better

4. move on -- you need to forget about her

 

Thing is, none of this garbage. It's all true. There is NO magic button that will heal you overnight.

 

It really does take time. But you must stay in control. A healthy diet and plenty of exercise are crucial.

[112233]

I lost 135 pounds and about $400,000 mainly, although I also lost a maid.

[Too Much]

That's a very astute post.

 

I've just gotten over my ten and a half year relationship. All said and done, it took about three months.

 

And yes -- at first, I had very low self esteem and felt like a loser.

 

Now, though, I see the light: the mild depression that I experienced when I was with her has magically vanished; I'm happier than I've been for ages; I walk taller; and I walk with pride.

 

I'm a man again.

 

And yes -- with enormous clarity I see that it is she and not I who is the loser. I will continue to move on; but she will forever be flawed.

 

As to whether or not she see things likewise, or even understands the complexities and dynamics of adult relationships, who cares.

 

Wow...over a 10.5 yr relationship in 3 months? Amazing. How long did it take her?

[HopelessinDTW]

I feel the same gains and losses as you. Present time I only get angry about her creating a broken home for our children. Most of the time I'm happy and healing quite well. I'm having a blast and really enjoying life.

 

I married at 20 and she was 19. I'm pretty sure the only thing we really had in common was a great sexual relationship.

 

Talking about it is the best medicine. I tried a counselor but he was happily married and could not relate to how I felt. Talking with my father and a coworker who was going through a similar divorce was quite healing.

Yea, this really pisses me off to no end. I have a tough time with this, especially when my 5 yo asks me "when are you and mommy going to live together", or when he cries and tells me he's "sad & confused", and how he 'doesn't know what to do about it", and how he relives the arguement we had after she took the kids away the day I found her having sex in a hotel room, and tells me "mom told me you and her have been arguing since I was born". Yes all these coming from a 5 yo boys mouth...these are not things a 5 yo should be thinking about. But, hey anything for her happiness I guess. Someone convinced her the kids will be fine, they are resilient...go ahead have an affair; you deserve to do what makes you happy...yes HopelessinDTW is a monster that never loved you, and never did anything to appreciate you as a mother/wife....sorry I had to vent. I just can't get over the collateral damage her deserved happiness has caused!

[iheartboobs]

I'm with you hopeless, all through the divorce my ex told me that she'd do anything for our daughter. Anything apparently didn't include any type of counseling or therapy to keep her daughter's family together, or for her to even keep other men from coming over to her place while we were "working things out".

 

I still find it amazing that she could come over to my house on multiple occasions, tell me (in tears) that our daughter asked her when mommy was going to come back home to daddy, ask me what we were going to do about it, blow me off when I suggested some type of counseling, and then have the nerve to follow that up with "you know I'd do anything for her, don't you?"

 

Now, if I could just figure out how butterfly managed to off her ex without anyone being the wiser I'd be in business...

Edited November 10, 2010 by iheartboobs

[HopelessinDTW]

I'm with you hopeless, all through the divorce my ex told me that she'd do anything for our daughter. Anything apparently didn't include any type of counseling or therapy to keep her daughter's family together, or for her to even keep other men from coming over to her place while we were "working things out".

 

I still find it amazing that she could come over to my house on multiple occasions, tell me (in tears) that our daughter asked her when mommy was going to come back home to daddy, ask me what we were going to do about it, blow me off when I suggested some type of counseling, and then have the nerve to follow that up with "you know I'd do anything for her, don't you?"

 

Now, if I could just figure out how butterfly managed to off her ex without anyone being the wiser I'd be in business...

My son is actually in counceling because of separation anxiety caused by all this. His therapist thinks he's getting better and is over the separation? I told him I didn't agree with him. I mentioned all the things my son is saying. He then told me kids his age lie. I told him I agree, but it's usually not about things like what mom told him or what she did to him. Most of the time he lies to get something he wants.

 

Our stbxw attempt to feel sympathy is pathetic at best. Don't expect anything to get in the way of what they need to get what they want...yes even at the kids' expense. How else could you have an affair? Think about your daughter (and I have a 3 yo daughter as well), and the example whe will have as a young lady growing up. As she grows up she will realize what happened between mom & dad, and she her main female role model will be her mom. I feel like the collateral damage is only just begun, and that the poor behavior our stbx are exhibiting will only get worse, and have an affect on the kids. That's why I really can't believe when people tell me "kids will get through this fine"....maybe if BOTH parents were sane...maybe if BOTH parents acted like a parent and not like a teenager...maybe of there was respect for the other parent by BOTH...but I have a hard time believing this will happen in my case. In my case the OM will also probably be moving here once the divorce is final. And knowing my stbx, she will marry him. So that just adds another layer of complications....

[fltc]

I was thinking about why I feel such a sense of loss during my time of separation and eventual divorce. What I actually list the important things in my life, it doesn't add up.

 

So why do I feel like I've lost everything, when clearly I haven't?

 

Maybe because you lost your planned future? During your marriage you visualized growing older together, watching the kids grow to adults, starting their own families, having grandchildren, you visualized retirement, maybe traveling, etc. etc. but always together, you and your wife.

 

All that's changed now but it's not necessarily changed for the worse, your future is now what YOU make it, much different than what you'd planned but it can still be a happy one if you'll allow it to be.

 

Good luck!

[The-Zen-Warrior]

HopelessinDTW :

 

The loss, that concept of the loss, is a tricky thing to actually define, for it's different for everyone.

 

For me, I've been where you are at currently, thank gosh those days of letting "the loss" dominate my thinking are way behind me. But even close to the three year mark, after the divorce was finalized, I once in a while have a trickle of the loss thoughts float into my head.

 

A very wise person in my life helped me define what I was thinking about the loss. She rather told me that a marriage is much like a life form, as time goes on, and both parties give it their all, after a period of time, the marriage rather turn into some sort of unseen life form, taking on a life of its own.

 

This person told me I'm not so much compulsively thinking about the actual loss of the ex-wife, but rather the energy and or life force your ex-wife brought to the marriage. She told me that at least as far as what's left behind, the house, the car, the 50/50 custody of the kid, that the energy and or life force of it all now strictly falls to me.

 

So more in less, this person was advising me that my suffering was a normal function, she told me that it all boiled down to the point that my mind, heart and soul was in a state of mourning , not for the ex-wife, but the life that was the marriage.

 

She told me, that it might had been easier to grasp the whole mourning process and run with it, until it's logical conclusion, if your ex-wife actually died. She than told me you would not therefore have a walking and talking reminder of the marriage, every time you had to have dealing with your ex-wife. She also told me that it makes it hard for a person who is in mourning, to have closer when there's not an actual grave site and head stone to visit, feel the feelings, let it out, walk away and move on.

 

So yeah, for all of us who have suffered and had to endure a divorce, we have felt the loss, not just for the person who we have chosen to depart, or we have chosen to depart, we just don't lose the person, but we also mourn the death of a unseen life form that was once a marriage!

[HopelessinDTW]

HopelessinDTW :

 

The loss, that concept of the loss, is a tricky thing to actually define, for it's different for everyone.

 

For me, I've been where you are at currently, thank gosh those days of letting "the loss" dominate my thinking are way behind me. But even close to the three year mark, after the divorce was finalized, I once in a while have a trickle of the loss thoughts float into my head.

 

A very wise person in my life helped me define what I was thinking about the loss. She rather told me that a marriage is much like a life form, as time goes on, and both parties give it their all, after a period of time, the marriage rather turn into some sort of unseen life form, taking on a life of its own.

 

This person told me I'm not so much compulsively thinking about the actual loss of the ex-wife, but rather the energy and or life force your ex-wife brought to the marriage. She told me that at least as far as what's left behind, the house, the car, the 50/50 custody of the kid, that the energy and or life force of it all now strictly falls to me.

 

So more in less, this person was advising me that my suffering was a normal function, she told me that it all boiled down to the point that my mind, heart and soul was in a state of mourning , not for the ex-wife, but the life that was the marriage.

 

She told me, that it might had been easier to grasp the whole mourning process and run with it, until it's logical conclusion, if your ex-wife actually died. She than told me you would not therefore have a walking and talking reminder of the marriage, every time you had to have dealing with your ex-wife. She also told me that it makes it hard for a person who is in mourning, to have closer when there's not an actual grave site and head stone to visit, feel the feelings, let it out, walk away and move on.

 

So yeah, for all of us who have suffered and had to endure a divorce, we have felt the loss, not just for the person who we have chosen to depart, or we have chosen to depart, we just don't lose the person, but we also mourn the death of a unseen life form that was once a marriage!

Zen-Warrior: I like your explanation, and the idea of death of a marriage. But when you don't see it coming, it's not death, it's more like murder of a marriage. I feel like my marriage, the life I planned for got murdered...that's much harder to deal with than a death. On top of it all the murderer (my stbx) is free. She lives her life as if nothing happened, she hasn't payed the price for murdering the marriage, and destroying the family. Whereas I feel like I am paying the price for this murder each and every day, and to some extent the kids.

[The-Zen-Warrior]

Zen-Warrior: I like your explanation, and the idea of death of a marriage. But when you don't see it coming, it's not death, it's more like murder of a marriage. I feel like my marriage, the life I planned for got murdered...that's much harder to deal with than a death. On top of it all the murderer (my stbx) is free. She lives her life as if nothing happened, she hasn't payed the price for murdering the marriage, and destroying the family. Whereas I feel like I am paying the price for this murder each and every day, and to some extent the kids.

 

My friend, you are very right, when it comes to how you put this! It was hard, very hard, for me to let go of what you just described. Yes, for the longest time I too felt that my ex-wife murdered our marriage. In short, she has 2 affairs on me, within a 6-7 month time period, both affairs "blind sided" me to no end. I know what you are talking about, the cheating, her dishonesty, her games, her betrayal.......all of this was the dagger of dishonor that she jabbed into the back of the marriage and killed it, and then after gutted it for the meat, just to make sure the job was done.

 

But for the most part, I've moved on from looking at it from that point of view. I rather now, just look at it as an unseen life form that died, and I have to keep trying my best to move on.

[Steadfast]

 

Maybe because you lost your planned future? During your marriage you visualized growing older together, watching the kids grow to adults, starting their own families, having grandchildren, you visualized retirement, maybe traveling, etc. etc. but always together, you and your wife.

 

All that's changed now but it's not necessarily changed for the worse, your future is now what YOU make it, much different than what you'd planned but it can still be a happy one if you'll allow it to be.

 

 

I relate with this post.

 

Discounting the fact that you probably love and miss this woman, there is almost certainly some remorse over what could (should?) have been. I was very proud of the fact that my marriage had survived as long as it did, and the blindside shock of it ending left a lot of loose ends. Some things I still miss, other things not at all. Her constant depression mainly. No thanks.

 

There are some lingering issues. No matter what, there are certain things about moving on that I'm not comfortable with. The approaching holidays bring these to life especially; splitting the day with my kids and family, then my GF's family. I'd like to stay in my house; my TV, my kids and dog.

 

Then again, the ex made holidays a pain in the ass. We never achieved the perfection she was after. It wasn't television. Hard to compete with that.

 

So, in the end, we make new memories and start down new paths. One thing is for sure; there is plenty company along the way!

[Woggle]

The worst part about it was failing like a failure. It was like I got so close to actually having a happy life and creating a great life for us and she just chose to flush it down the toilet. We were so happy and in love and then a year after that it turned into pure hell. In hindsight my life ended up working out well anyway but at the time I felt like I had been through a war when I walked out of divorce court for the last time. Guys should keep their heads up because it will get better without her. Of course that is easier said than done without kids. I don't know how fathers deal with this crap and how these women can actually do this to their families and sleep at night.

[iheartboobs]

Also, I believe a big part of that is the disregard and destruction of something we've put years of hard work into making.

 

I remember when I was in middle school, I was a fairly talented artist and people always wanted me to draw them a picture of something. Well, one day a guy gave me a comic and asked me to draw the cover for him. It was a very intricate and time-consuming process that took a couple of hours, but, while the work was harder than what I was used to, I was very proud of the result. When I gave him the drawing, without looking at it, he ripped it in half... he was just a mean little bastard who hated the fact that someone could do something he couldn't.

 

When my wife walked out on the marriage, the feeling was much more intense, but it was otherwise pretty much the same. I had spent years cultivating our marriage, taking care of her and our daughter. I had gotten her the car she wanted and the house she wanted because she grew up with nothing and I wanted her to have everything. I put years of my heart and soul, sweat, blood, and tears into our marriage... it was hard, but I was proud of what we had. Then she tore it up and threw it away like trash.

 

I don't care who you are, that hurts.

[HopelessinDTW]

Also, I believe a big part of that is the disregard and destruction of something we've put years of hard work into making.

 

I remember when I was in middle school, I was a fairly talented artist and people always wanted me to draw them a picture of something. Well, one day a guy gave me a comic and asked me to draw the cover for him. It was a very intricate and time-consuming process that took a couple of hours, but, while the work was harder than what I was used to, I was very proud of the result. When I gave him the drawing, without looking at it, he ripped it in half... he was just a mean little bastard who hated the fact that someone could do something he couldn't.

 

When my wife walked out on the marriage, the feeling was much more intense, but it was otherwise pretty much the same. I had spent years cultivating our marriage, taking care of her and our daughter. I had gotten her the car she wanted and the house she wanted because she grew up with nothing and I wanted her to have everything. I put years of my heart and soul, sweat, blood, and tears into our marriage... it was hard, but I was proud of what we had. Then she tore it up and threw it away like trash.

 

I don't care who you are, that hurts.

 

I hear you loud and clear! When I met my stbx she had nothing, an apartment and making barely enough to get by. Her parents (even though they were loaded) did not support her much. Did not pay for her college degree. When we met she decided to go to pharmacy school, and took out loans to get through it. I ended up paying off all her school loans (~$55k). On top of it got her the cars she wanted, the house, nose job, etc. etc. all the while going through the worst economy in decades. Yet, when she talks about our marriage, she cannot remember these things I did for her so that she and the kids could live a comfortable & secure life. I feel sorry that she just can't bring herself to see that doing these things was my way of showing love to her and our family. I accept the fact that I lacked in other areas like showing affection, and not going out as much with her...but to totally discount all the good that I did was very hurtful.

 

We are not perfect husbands, we all have our faults...all of us have done things that we regret in our marriage. But the way all our efforts have been thrown away is something I will have a tough time to sort through.

[iheartboobs]

We are not perfect husbands, we all have our faults...all of us have done things that we regret in our marriage.

 

Try not to beat yourself up over this too much. Your ex sounds a lot like mine, and, if they are similar, there's nothing you could have done to make her happy.

 

When my wife left she told me I was insensitive, hurtful, mean, that I treated her like property instead of a person, etc. So, when we decided to give the relationship another try, I had her write down everything I did wrong so I wouldn't repeat the same mistakes. I did it all, I became (according to the guidelines in the notebook) her perfect man. I was sensitive, I asked about her day, her family, her job and listened to what she had to say. I did not raise my voice to her and if something bothered me we sat down and talked about it. We went out on dates to fun places, I always put her before my friends, and I was generally what every woman says they want.

 

She ran all over me. Being the "perfect" man meant not being a man at all, but a doormat... of course, this caused her to lose respect for me and, you guessed it, become unhappy with our relationship. I couldn't win her rigged game so I stopped playing.

 

So don't beat yourself up over what you did or didn't do. Sure you were damned because you did, but you'd have been damned if you didn't too.

[HopelessinDTW]

Try not to beat yourself up over this too much. Your ex sounds a lot like mine, and, if they are similar, there's nothing you could have done to make her happy.

 

When my wife left she told me I was insensitive, hurtful, mean, that I treated her like property instead of a person, etc. So, when we decided to give the relationship another try, I had her write down everything I did wrong so I wouldn't repeat the same mistakes. I did it all, I became (according to the guidelines in the notebook) her perfect man. I was sensitive, I asked about her day, her family, her job and listened to what she had to say. I did not raise my voice to her and if something bothered me we sat down and talked about it. We went out on dates to fun places, I always put her before my friends, and I was generally what every woman says they want.

 

She ran all over me. Being the "perfect" man meant not being a man at all, but a doormat... of course, this caused her to lose respect for me and, you guessed it, become unhappy with our relationship. I couldn't win her rigged game so I stopped playing.

 

So don't beat yourself up over what you did or didn't do. Sure you were damned because you did, but you'd have been damned if you didn't too.

 

I guess that's my personality...I feel like every problem has a solution, and that if I did things differently I could have prevented this from all happening. Many people have told me the same thing as you (i.e. she would have done this regardless of what I changed). When I have moments of clarity I buy into this, but many times I fall back into the "what could I have done differently" mode. I guess our marriages were doomed from the start, we married the wrong women.

[Woggle]

Try not to beat yourself up over this too much. Your ex sounds a lot like mine, and, if they are similar, there's nothing you could have done to make her happy.

 

When my wife left she told me I was insensitive, hurtful, mean, that I treated her like property instead of a person, etc. So, when we decided to give the relationship another try, I had her write down everything I did wrong so I wouldn't repeat the same mistakes. I did it all, I became (according to the guidelines in the notebook) her perfect man. I was sensitive, I asked about her day, her family, her job and listened to what she had to say. I did not raise my voice to her and if something bothered me we sat down and talked about it. We went out on dates to fun places, I always put her before my friends, and I was generally what every woman says they want.

 

She ran all over me. Being the "perfect" man meant not being a man at all, but a doormat... of course, this caused her to lose respect for me and, you guessed it, become unhappy with our relationship. I couldn't win her rigged game so I stopped playing.

 

So don't beat yourself up over what you did or didn't do. Sure you were damned because you did, but you'd have been damned if you didn't too.

 

With women like her you can never win. Once men learn this we will be much better off.