fishtaco Posted November 10, 2010 Posted November 10, 2010 Yeah, I was kidding. I did what I had to in the circumstances. You're right though I tried to not care, but receiving messages every day makes it hard to just ignore. What would you have done Fishtaco, or anyone else out of interest? Without passive aggressivly ignoring messages. I would have not cared. I may shoot a couple of messages back, and be "busy" and unavailable. Eventually they'll go away. Put up or shut up basically. Action is the only thing that counts, words mean nothing. In the meantime, I'll be dating other women that would actually show up to dates. If you really wanted to play games, you could first be really responsive, and set up like a virtual relationship via only communication but no actual date. Then suddenly distance yourself and "leak" information that you're dating other women. But really, she's not worth that much trouble. And instead of pretending you're dating other women, it's ALWAYS better to be actually really dating other women. Very often women will call out your BS, so don't BS it, do it for real. You reacted because you care. She's really not even worth getting mad at. The only time you should care is after you and her have had an explicit talk about exclusivity -- i.e. you are in a serious relationship. Anything before that, it's all just fun and games.
dispatch3d Posted November 10, 2010 Posted November 10, 2010 I don't think you were really in a position to express anger. Did this girl behave perfectly? No. But you also don't know that she was inetntionally trying to hurt you. You could have ended it and explained why, but there is a difference between expressing "these are my expectations and you are not meeting them" and expressing anger. not in a position to express anger? I wasn't aware there were justifiable times to be angry and other times where they aren't justified? To me it's never beneficial to get angry with someone.
fishtaco Posted November 10, 2010 Posted November 10, 2010 not in a position to express anger? I wasn't aware there were justifiable times to be angry and other times where they aren't justified? To me it's never beneficial to get angry with someone. Thank you. Never respond with anger.
Author Alex_M Posted November 10, 2010 Author Posted November 10, 2010 You can't pick and choose your emotions, if you're angry, you're angry. All emotions are legitimate and healthy. I've certainly found it helps in the past. When people cross your boundries and you get mad at them. (I'm not talking murderous rage, just angry.) People often respect that, or they can just walk away. Case in point, right?
hoping2heal Posted November 10, 2010 Posted November 10, 2010 I don't deal with that level of disrespect. So I would have cut you loose too. Good for her. He shouldn't have to put up with her bull**** either. The constant dicking around was extremely disrespectful and needless to say I'm quite positive you dodged a bullet with that girl.
that girl Posted November 10, 2010 Posted November 10, 2010 You can't pick and choose your emotions, if you're angry, you're angry. All emotions are legitimate and healthy. I've certainly found it helps in the past. When people cross your boundries and you get mad at them. (I'm not talking murderous rage, just angry.) People often respect that, or they can just walk away. Case in point, right? You can't pick your emotions, but you can control how you express them. Telling this girl how pissed off you are based on your assumptions and when she is only a casual acquaintance makes you look like you can't control yourself.
Author Alex_M Posted November 10, 2010 Author Posted November 10, 2010 Expressing anger is justified AND important as well don't you think? I wasn't malicious or violent. It was a simple this is how I feel and this is what I see.
carhill Posted November 10, 2010 Posted November 10, 2010 What can I learn from this? / Was I too harsh?Definitely do ask women out who aren't reliant on their parents for dating approval or give the impression thereof. Black hole them the *first* time they jerk you around or disrespect your sincere interest. No second chances. As others mentioned, don't respond in anger. Save that for when they divorce you and take your life's work If you find yourself running into this dynamic a lot, try something different. This path is fraught with the potential for bitterness down the road. Repeated internalization of such treatment and rejection can eat away at your psyche. Do something else. The 'something else' which worked for me, eventually, was not caring about people until they earned the privilege of that care. It took many years to figure that out because I was socialized to be a caring person, but I finally got it. Hope your next potential goes better
fishtaco Posted November 10, 2010 Posted November 10, 2010 Expressing anger is justified AND important as well don't you think? I wasn't malicious or violent. It was a simple this is how I feel and this is what I see. No in this case it was unnecessary. I just went through a situation worse than yours, I didn't get angry. I sent a very nice closure message to her, because I try to observe good etiquette, then I moved on. In the dating scene, anytime you feel anger, you should feel don't care instead. This is nothing. Like I said, this is just merely average behavior. If this angers you, you are not ready for the dating scene. Sorry bro.
Author Alex_M Posted November 10, 2010 Author Posted November 10, 2010 You sound so jaded. I've had a pretty decent run so far, some girls are good and some, not so much. This one has just been the wierdest. I guess next time I feel sad I should just feel glad instead? Point taken though thanks, carhill + taco.
that girl Posted November 10, 2010 Posted November 10, 2010 Expressing anger is justified AND important as well don't you think? I wasn't malicious or violent. It was a simple this is how I feel and this is what I see. Reading it, you sound like the kind of guy who would punch his hand through a wall in a fight. There is a big difference between "This isn't cool, I don't want to deal with this anymore" and ""Why the hell not? Are you a child? If you don't want to go just say so, is there any reason that you say you want to go and do something and change your mind every time with a bull**** excuse?"
Author Alex_M Posted November 10, 2010 Author Posted November 10, 2010 (edited) Reading it, you sound like the kind of guy who would punch his hand through a wall in a fight. As in I'm violent or retarded? But yeah your version is a totally different to mine; it has a totally different meaning. I asked for an explanation, she didn't owe or have to give me one, but that's what I wanted. Infact quite the opposite of not wanting to deal with it, I wanted to deal with it then and there and have it stop bugging me, which it did. I could have said it better though you're probably right. Thanks Edited November 10, 2010 by Alex_M
carhill Posted November 10, 2010 Posted November 10, 2010 'I'm feeling manipulated here and that is unacceptable. Good-bye' Reading your OP, that's my take-away. She was playing with you and it wasn't beneficial for you; it was beneficial for her in whatever world she exists in. That's manipulation. Great line. Used it on my exW a few times. No holes in the wall, but the lawn mower did exit the truck bed at high speed one time
that girl Posted November 10, 2010 Posted November 10, 2010 'I'm feeling manipulated here and that is unacceptable. Good-bye' Reading your OP, that's my take-away. She was playing with you and it wasn't beneficial for you; it was beneficial for her in whatever world she exists in. That's manipulation. Great line. Used it on my exW a few times. No holes in the wall, but the lawn mower did exit the truck bed at high speed one time Ugh. But yeah your version is a totally different to mine; it has a totally different meaning. I asked for an explanation, she didn't owe or have to give me one, but that's what I wanted. Would you actually respond with an explanation is someone texted you: ""Why the hell not? Are you a child? If you don't want to go just say so, is there any reason that you say you want to go and do something and change your mind every time with a bull**** excuse?" I wouldn't.
dispatch3d Posted November 10, 2010 Posted November 10, 2010 You can't pick and choose your emotions, if you're angry, you're angry. All emotions are legitimate and healthy. I've certainly found it helps in the past. When people cross your boundries and you get mad at them. (I'm not talking murderous rage, just angry.) People often respect that, or they can just walk away. Case in point, right? I agree with the first part. It is human and natural to feel anger. You will always feel anger at times, and there is nothing to do that will totally prevent you from ever being angry. I've recently learned that usually when you are angry it's a result of one of your own personal rules being broken. So the way to reduce the time you are angry (very diserable! obviously) is to either losen your rules, have fewer rules (eliminate unnecessary ones) or be better at handling the anger when it comes. "When people cross your boundries and you get mad at them." This statement is a limiting belief. That this tendency "helps you". It doesn't. You are giving in to your emotional anger and unfairly venting on another person. Being angry is an issue with YOU, NOT THEM! Don't blame other people for things, including your anger. That said when people cross your boundaries, the appropriate response is - stop that. That's it. It shouldn't ideally be expressed any more sternly than absolutely necessarily. Meaning "I'd appreciate it if you didn't do x, this bothers me." is the best approach. Followed by a slightly stronger approach, and so on. Your essentially asking how to control anger/anger management. One way is to not mull over things you are angry over. They will build and amplify. Another way is to deal with them, but after a suitable time has passed that you are not angry anymore. If you are angry for a long period of time, consider how much emotional investment you've put into something that in the end DOES NOT MATTER. There's a lot of ways to change beliefs you have on anger, and restructure limiting beliefs you may hold. I'd suggest reading a book on frame control. Hope this helps. Fwiw you have a good attitude at approaching problems, especially with regards to how you should have delt with this particular one.
carhill Posted November 10, 2010 Posted November 10, 2010 (edited) Ugh. Exactly. That's why I had an affair and divorced her. Bye bye Edited to add that, when boundaries were breached when I was growing up, one kid went home with a smashed face. Sometimes that was me and sometimes it was another kid. We learned respect for boundaries by experiencing the effects, brutal effects, of breaching them. Girls were spared this, hence they have no idea of the ramifications of their actions. In the interceding 3-4 decades, society has changed. I still remember mouthing off, treating someone bad and getting my teeth knocked back into my head. 'Hey, you shoulda kept your mouth shut'. Yep. Edited November 10, 2010 by carhill
TheMENemy Posted November 10, 2010 Posted November 10, 2010 As in I'm violent or retarded? But yeah your version is a totally different to mine; it has a totally different meaning. I asked for an explanation, she didn't owe or have to give me one, but that's what I wanted. Infact quite the opposite of not wanting to deal with it, I wanted to deal with it then and there and have it stop bugging me, which it did. I could have said it better though you're probably right. Thanks Alex M, don't let anyone try to "shame" you for txting this woman your honest emotions, which in this case happened to be angry ones. There's no law against angry txts, you didn't hurt anyone, so screw her if she doesn't like it. "Ugh." LOL.
TheMENemy Posted November 10, 2010 Posted November 10, 2010 'I'm feeling manipulated here and that is unacceptable. Good-bye' Reading your OP, that's my take-away. She was playing with you and it wasn't beneficial for you; it was beneficial for her in whatever world she exists in. That's manipulation. Great line. Used it on my exW a few times. No holes in the wall, but the lawn mower did exit the truck bed at high speed one time Yeah there was an incident in my own marriage where somehow one New Year's Day, a plateful of egg foo yung ended up whizzing toward the living room wall at a high velocity, smashing into bits upon its inevitable impact. While perhaps it was not the most civilized thing I've ever done in my marriage, it certainly "got her attention." The legacy of that incident was an uneradicable grease stain on that wall that kept re-appearing no matter how many coats of paint were layered on top of it. That was some very powerful Chinese food and very effective for clearing out the pipes.
TheMENemy Posted November 10, 2010 Posted November 10, 2010 I agree with the first part. It is human and natural to feel anger. You will always feel anger at times, and there is nothing to do that will totally prevent you from ever being angry. I've recently learned that usually when you are angry it's a result of one of your own personal rules being broken. So the way to reduce the time you are angry (very diserable! obviously) is to either losen your rules, have fewer rules (eliminate unnecessary ones) or be better at handling the anger when it comes. "When people cross your boundries and you get mad at them." This statement is a limiting belief. That this tendency "helps you". It doesn't. You are giving in to your emotional anger and unfairly venting on another person. Being angry is an issue with YOU, NOT THEM! Don't blame other people for things, including your anger. That said when people cross your boundaries, the appropriate response is - stop that. That's it. It shouldn't ideally be expressed any more sternly than absolutely necessarily. Meaning "I'd appreciate it if you didn't do x, this bothers me." is the best approach. Followed by a slightly stronger approach, and so on. Your essentially asking how to control anger/anger management. One way is to not mull over things you are angry over. They will build and amplify. Another way is to deal with them, but after a suitable time has passed that you are not angry anymore. If you are angry for a long period of time, consider how much emotional investment you've put into something that in the end DOES NOT MATTER. There's a lot of ways to change beliefs you have on anger, and restructure limiting beliefs you may hold. I'd suggest reading a book on frame control. Hope this helps. Fwiw you have a good attitude at approaching problems, especially with regards to how you should have delt with this particular one. Generally speaking when I lose my temper about something, if I think about it, it's always something ELSE that was on my mind, bugging me, and then the actual "thing I got angry at" was like a "trigger" that actually caused me to "release" my anxiety about something else entirely. (Like kicking the dog because the boss yelled at you.) But if I hadn't been preoccupied with the other concern, I would never have gotten angry at the usually trivial thing that acted as a "trigger."
impz Posted November 10, 2010 Posted November 10, 2010 Alex M, don't let anyone try to "shame" you for txting this woman your honest emotions, which in this case happened to be angry ones. There's no law against angry txts, you didn't hurt anyone, so screw her if she doesn't like it. "Ugh." LOL. Huh what? I am not too sure why you gave this advice (perhaps of your background?) but I politely disagree. In a way, I felt that advice like this clearly shows how people with extreme gender views (women and men alike) make it sound like a relationship is like a war. Wait, perhaps it is for some people! I personally think that the last thing you want to do when a woman (OR A MAN) does something so crass is to return back with a volley of hurtful/angry remarks that make you stoop as low as that person. It simply makes you just as horrible as the woman. You can be angry. You can be mad and she has clearly done some juvenile things. However, you could simply be kinder with the language, say "I don't know what you want. However, if you decide that you are more keen to doing something about this, call me and you organize a meeting." Then get rid of her in your life until she bothers to do something about it. You don't have to cuss her out, or swear. Does it feel good if you do so? Sure. However, do you think you will ever have a chance with her? Hell no if she has any self-esteem. In fact, no one in their right mind would reply to your sms.
carhill Posted November 10, 2010 Posted November 10, 2010 OP, this exchange prompts me to add that, if you happen to experience such a dynamic again, diffuse your reaction by getting together with a male friend and having some fun, drink a few beers and laugh at the absurdity of where that anger was directed. Really and sincerely, the more and better male friendships you have, the less that this stuff with women will matter. You'll still want to date and mate, but the nuances won't rule you. Be *very* careful before deciding to get married though. Learn from we old fart's mistakes.
Author Alex_M Posted November 10, 2010 Author Posted November 10, 2010 Impz, I did not want to get with her at this point. I wanted her to feel bad for wronging me. That's what it boils down to. It's not wrong to do that, it's the way people are brought up all the way from childhood. Carhill has got it right. I'm making sure she knows what she's doing is wrong to do to me. It makes me feel better and it makes her stop.
konrad109 Posted November 10, 2010 Posted November 10, 2010 I don't think you were really in a position to express anger. Did this girl behave perfectly? No. But you also don't know that she was inetntionally trying to hurt you. You could have ended it and explained why, but there is a difference between expressing "these are my expectations and you are not meeting them" and expressing anger. I think thats way out of line. What "position" does he need to be in to express anger? Everyone has a right to verbally express their emotions. If he's angry then expressing it clearly is what is best for him. Not to mention he clearly expressed his boundaries to her before in a respectful tone, and she continued to cross them. It is irrelevant what her intentions were at this point. Even if she did it on accident thats still disrespecful because it means she doesn't take his boundaries seriously enough to remember them. Either way, he could have made his message more tactful, but I say if it made her feel like crap that night then he did the right thing and maybe she will reconsider stringing people along next time.
Author Alex_M Posted November 10, 2010 Author Posted November 10, 2010 Thanks Carhill, I appreciate your words of wisdom.
impz Posted November 10, 2010 Posted November 10, 2010 Impz, I did not want to get with her at this point. I wanted her to feel bad for wronging me. That's what it boils down to. It's not wrong to do that, it's the way people are brought up all the way from childhood. Carhill has got it right. I'm making sure she knows what she's doing is wrong to do to me. It makes me feel better and it makes her stop. Ahh.. I am brought up in the opposite way. I am taught to simply ignore such people, and not "return an eye for an eye" for such things. Well, whatever works for you. I won't say getting back is wrong (it's so sweet at times!) but more like it will feel better if you don't need to go down to uncouth words. Yet, you can come out dignified and make her look like an absolute fool. I just realized, I might be even worse!
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