Understanding Gender Insults

[112233]

Many women seem to hate their gender role, and actively try to make sure they are not held to that standard. That makes sense to me. It makes sense to want no standards or accountability.

 

Many seem to want to invent new gender roles where they get the mostly good parts of the male roles and we keep the parts that are shall we say, less fun, while picking up the female gender tasks they also didn't like.

 

Pass.

[sally4sara]

True... but I'm really just trying to say that they should not have been insulted.

 

If a woman says she doesn't date men with blue eyes because they are blue eyed devils... I don't get insulted. I wish her the best and move on. Maybe I think she is kinda nuts later, but I definitely don't get insulted at her opinion.

 

So... why should those women get insulted when a guy says he won't date highly promiscuous women because they are crazy?

 

Most of the women who seemed insulted were not what most would consider promiscuous. So... what the heck?

 

Because there was much more being discussed that a simple "you're not my cup of tea darlin". One wouldn't need to go on to attack the the character of some woman if all they wished to say was "not my type; I'll pass".

[Untouchable_Fire]

Because there was much more being discussed that a simple "you're not my cup of tea darlin". One wouldn't need to go on to attack the the character of some woman if all they wished to say was "not my type; I'll pass".

 

That was EXACTLY what I was discussing. The question was guys how do you view women who do "XYZ", and I shared my opinion. Some women then got very upset about the fact that such a woman is "not my cup of tea".

 

Very similar to the thread where I stated I will not date American women any longer... and exhorted other guys to do similar. Which by the way I have also advised women to try dating men from elsewhere.

 

LS women seem to take it as a person insult when you say that they are not your type. Why? I don't know.

[flying]

I've seen cheap shots fly from all sides...when it comes to insulting gender roles, I think that the way some men on LS (and elsewhere) tend to do it is by insinuating that women are illogical, irrational over-emotional, blah blah. Cheap shots that are designed to piss people off, just like the manhood thing. Same diff.

[donnamaybe]

LS women seem to take it as a person insult when you say that they are not your type. Why? I don't know.

No - American women take it as an insult when you claim we are lazy, won't cook, don't care about our men and only want their paycheck, and are selfish and materialistic.

 

Yes - we know women like that. But ALL American women aren't like that. In fact, I have many, MANY friends - NONE like that. ALL American women.

[112233]

Very similar to the thread where I stated I will not date American women any longer... and exhorted other guys to do similar. Which by the way I have also advised women to try dating men from elsewhere.

 

It's unfair. I know it shouldn't be, it looks perfectly fair on paper.

 

In practice, American men are, by and large and in most places, viewed as great husband material. In practice, American women are, by and large and in most places, viewed as average or worse wife material. A lot of American women people will find that insulting. I can see how they would feel.

 

I also think it's unfair to American men to try and suppress this information, and really, if it's that troubling women can stop doing the things that cause this to be true. Most don't want that though.

 

We're expected to want them as they want to be, and nope, not gonna do it.

[112233]

I've seen cheap shots fly from all sides...when it comes to insulting gender roles, I think that the way some men on LS (and elsewhere) tend to do it is by insinuating that women are illogical, irrational over-emotional, blah blah. Cheap shots that are designed to piss people off, just like the manhood thing. Same diff.

 

I see you're upset (*snicker*) but those are not insults like the OP is talking about. No one has said (I think) "real women wouldn't be so emotional", in fact it's more like "women tend to be emotional", which is not attacking her womanhood per se.

[flying]

That was EXACTLY what I was discussing. The question was guys how do you view women who do "XYZ", and I shared my opinion. Some women then got very upset about the fact that such a woman is "not my cup of tea".

 

Very similar to the thread where I stated I will not date American women any longer... and exhorted other guys to do similar. Which by the way I have also advised women to try dating men from elsewhere.

 

LS women seem to take it as a person insult when you say that they are not your type. Why? I don't know.

 

Yeah, but UF, you don't just say "not my cup of tea" or "not my type." Naturally, people feel insulted at what you've said - I mean, of course they do. What you say are insults, and it's hard to imagine that you don't intend them as chastisements, rather than a gentle musing on how it takes all kinds to make a world. True, there's a difference between airily saying "women who do xxx, like you, are worth less" and "your manhood is small" - but in the end, one is just more passive-aggressive than the other. Both are insulting.

 

Why strangers should care what you think is a different matter, and that part is on them. But that doesn't free you from responsibility for your own words.

[flying]

I see you're upset (*snicker*) but those are not insults like the OP is talking about. No one has said (I think) "real women wouldn't be so emotional", in fact it's more like "women tend to be emotional", which is not attacking her womanhood per se.

 

Yeah, I don't think you understood what I wrote.

[Untouchable_Fire]

No - American women take it as an insult when you claim we are lazy, won't cook, don't care about our men and only want their paycheck, and are selfish and materialistic.

Yes - we know women like that. But ALL American women aren't like that. In fact, I have many, MANY friends - NONE like that. ALL American women.

 

The point was never that All American women are this way.

 

The point was that so many are... that I'm not willing to keep trying with them anymore. It was always about the percentages.

 

When a similar thread was made about U.S. men... I readily agreed.

[donnamaybe]

The point was never that All American women are this way.

 

The point was that so many are... that I'm not willing to keep trying with them anymore. It was always about the percentages.

 

When a similar thread was made about U.S. men... I readily agreed.

And are you seriously going to tell me that you honestly believe there are NO women like that in any other country?

 

Why could you have not spoken about WOMEN (not just American women) with those undesirable attributes? We (women) agree those are undesirable attributes, but when you claim it's only American women who have ever displayed those attributes, yes - you piss us American women off.

[112233]

Yeah, I don't think you understood what I wrote.

 

Well I don't think you understand the OP. None of the things you listed would be examples of what he is talking about, I believe. In fairness, I think men do this to women some, but he's right, it's more commonly done to men.

[112233]

The point was never that All American women are this way.

 

The point was that so many are... that I'm not willing to keep trying with them anymore. It was always about the percentages.

 

When a similar thread was made about U.S. men... I readily agreed.

 

And are you seriously going to tell me that you honestly believe there are NO women like that in any other country?

 

Why could you have not spoken about WOMEN (not just American women) with those undesirable attributes? We (women) agree those are undesirable attributes, but when you claim it's only American women who have ever displayed those attributes, yes - you piss us American women off.

 

Here we go.

 

It's obvious to me that UF (and myself) have determined that it's simpler and easier for everyone if we go fish where the salmon are if we want to catch salmon. When I want a chub, I'll go fish in the chub infested waters.

 

Is there a chance of catching a salmon anywhere? Probably some finite chance. Not a good bet though.

[donnamaybe]

Yeah, I don't think you understood what I wrote.

You're not surprised, are you?

[sally4sara]

That was EXACTLY what I was discussing. The question was guys how do you view women who do "XYZ", and I shared my opinion. Some women then got very upset about the fact that such a woman is "not my cup of tea".

 

Very similar to the thread where I stated I will not date American women any longer... and exhorted other guys to do similar. Which by the way I have also advised women to try dating men from elsewhere.

 

LS women seem to take it as a person insult when you say that they are not your type. Why? I don't know.

 

And EXACTLY as I said; there were men posting way more than simple "not my type" posts.

 

Look Untouchable, I'm not going to spend more time talking about the attitudes of other posts who are not you if you're going to pretend they were not being insulting just because you were not being so insulting.

[theBrokenMuse]

I see you're upset (*snicker*) but those are not insults like the OP is talking about. No one has said (I think) "real women wouldn't be so emotional", in fact it's more like "women tend to be emotional", which is not attacking her womanhood per se.

Actually some male posters have mentioned in the past that women are too irrational and emotional to have a logical conversation with which of course is just a lazy means of saying "I am going to just blatantly disregard whatever points you make as nonsensical hysterics simply because you have a vagina. Of course, that didn't bother me any because with that drastic measure he had just forfeited the debate thus demonstrating the fragility of his position and inability to properly defend it.

[112233]

You're not surprised, are you?

 

Now see, that's just ad hom and not nice. I don't think I ever attacked you personally.

[flying]

Well I don't think you understand the OP. None of the things you listed would be examples of what he is talking about, I believe. In fairness, I think men do this to women some, but he's right, it's more commonly done to men.

 

Very well, I shall try to explain.

 

The OP wrote this:

I've notice time and again that when a woman chooses to insult a man she typically goes for gender role style insults.

 

It is quite true that it is less common for men to insult women's femininity than it is for women to insult men's masculinity, as a cheap shot. Why? Because it bugs men more than it does women, which is, after all, the point.

 

HOWEVER. That does not mean that men don't go for cheap gender-role insults - they've just found a different way to hurt. That way involves suggesting certain traits are the EXCLUSIVE province of men - traits such as being smart, rational, not over-emotional, logical. Even though this is not backed up by science, there are still plenty of men (and women too, it must be said) who choose to see these traits as gender roles. And men who want to bug women know that all they have to do is poke at them and suggest they don't possess these traits. That makes this relevant to the OP.

 

The point is, nobody's innocent here.

[112233]

Actually some male posters have mentioned in the past that women are too irrational and emotional to have a logical conversation with which of course is just a lazy means of saying "I am going to just blatantly disregard whatever points you make as nonsensical hysterics simply because you have a vagina. Of course, that didn't bother me any because with that drastic measure he had just forfeited the debate thus demonstrating the fragility of his position and inability to properly defend it.

 

OK fine, but they didn't say "a real woman wouldn't be too irrational and emotional to have a logical conversation with", which is what this is supposed to be about. They might have commented based on gender stereotypes, but not implied the person was somehow less a woman.

[flying]

OK fine, but they didn't say "a real woman wouldn't be too irrational and emotional to have a logical conversation with", which is what this is supposed to be about. They might have commented based on gender stereotypes, but not implied the person was somehow less a woman.

 

I think the point here is that MANY men and women alike see being called womanly as an insult. You see? So all men have to do to insult women is say they're being "such a girl."

 

Whether or not it sucks that being called a "girl" is an insult to so many people is a topic for another dissertation. But this is about the intent to insult, and the fact is, it's not a matter of whether you call someone womanly or manly - it's whether you're implying they're weak. And to too many people, feminine = weak. Get it?

[112233]

HOWEVER. That does not mean that men don't go for cheap gender-role insults - they've just found a different way to hurt. That way involves suggesting certain traits are the EXCLUSIVE province of men - traits such as being smart, rational, not over-emotional, logical.

 

Well, no, it's not the same thing. If your point is that everyone has an insult for someone, I'd say that's probably true, but the specific thing the OP is pointing out is, as you even admit, vastly more used by women against men.

 

He finds it curious. I find it curious that it's so hard to discuss.

[flying]

Well, no, it's not the same thing. If your point is that everyone has an insult for someone, I'd say that's probably true, but the specific thing the OP is pointing out is, as you even admit, vastly more used by women against men.

 

He finds it curious. I find it curious that it's so hard to discuss.

 

Again - see my post above.

[Untouchable_Fire]

Yeah, but UF, you don't just say "not my cup of tea" or "not my type." Naturally, people feel insulted at what you've said - I mean, of course they do. What you say are insults, and it's hard to imagine that you don't intend them as chastisements, rather than a gentle musing on how it takes all kinds to make a world. True, there's a difference between airily saying "women who do xxx, like you, are worth less" and "your manhood is small" - but in the end, one is just more passive-aggressive than the other. Both are insulting.

Why strangers should care what you think is a different matter, and that part is on them. But that doesn't free you from responsibility for your own words.

 

I would characterize that particular thread as an advertisement for women of other cultures.

 

My point is that it's really common to insult guys by telling them they don't hold up to a gender stereotype.

 

On the other hand it's insulting to women in saying they DO conform to a stereotype... which is often non-gender specific.

 

Do you see the curious difference?

 

I'm not 100% convinced... but I have this notion that perhaps because women are so demanding and value masculine stereotype behavior in men... men in turn value this highly in themselves and compete based on it.

 

And are you seriously going to tell me that you honestly believe there are NO women like that in any other country?

Why could you have not spoken about WOMEN (not just American women) with those undesirable attributes? We (women) agree those are undesirable attributes, but when you claim it's only American women who have ever displayed those attributes, yes - you piss us American women off.

 

In hindsight instead of going more general I should have been more specific and excluded women in the middle of the country and a good chunk in the south, as those dating cultures seem much different.

 

And yes... some women in other countries suck just as bad. However, the numbers are fewer... and I often see them held accountable. Whereas here women are glorified for poor behavior.

[flying]

My point is that it's really common to insult guys by telling them they don't hold up to a gender stereotype.

 

On the other hand it's insulting to women in saying they DO conform to a stereotype... which is often non-gender specific.

 

Do you see the curious difference?

 

Yes indeed...in fact, I was making the same point. I quite agree - except that I would say both are gender-specific.

 

The feminine stereotype(s) include terms like: gold-digging, irrational, emotional, etc. etc. You do not hear these words applied to men, for the most part.

[sally4sara]

 

I'm not 100% convinced... but I have this notion that perhaps because women are so demanding and value masculine stereotype behavior in men... men in turn value this highly in themselves and compete based on it.

 

I'm going to apply the same response used multiple times by a very insulting poster in a thread aimed at insulting women on this one:

 

How sexist of you to insinuate that men can't think for themselves and paint them as helpless victims!