Has anyone experienced this?

[carrie999]

I posted this in the OM/OW forum and got some great insight, but they also suggested I post here since most of them are "single" and haven't been in this situation themselves. I'm curious as to whether anyone has been in HIS shoes:

 

Okay, so in the course of sorting out this tangled web, I told MM that I don't believe we cheat unless something is missing in our current relationships. Unless, of course, MM/MW is just bored or looking for something new and exciting, which is an issue with the individual, not the relationship, per se.

 

In my case, I've wondered if it's just me. My SO is incredible and we have a great relationship, but I've never felt a connection like I felt with MM even before we started this and I admitted to myself I had actual feelings for him. There's nothing "wrong" with my relationship, but MM and I immediately connected on such a deep level that our conversations made no sense to anyone else...we finish eachother's sentences, and can convey entire paragraphs with two words, a look, and a few nods.

 

What it comes down to is this: he has always loved her and they get along, but he never considered alternatives or took any risks. They married because that was the only way their families would accept them living together, and neither wanted to move back home to somewhat difficult homes after college. They don't have true marital issues. When I posed the question, I expected him to be introspective, and told him I didn't expect a response, but he should think about it...if only to figure out why he's with me now.

 

Nothing drove him from her and to me. The first time we kissed, I saw in his eyes that he was as shocked as I was by that momentary lapse of reason.

 

Has anyone (male or female) been through this? He was just a very traditional guy who married his high school sweetheart because he loved her and that was the logical next step. He never got bored with her, but also never dated anyone else or experienced anything like what we have...in all fairness, in years of dating great guys, neither have I...

 

While we're experiencing the same thing in that sense, I arrived to this relationship through such a different route that I'm just trying to see his perspective. If anyone has been through what he has, I'd really love to hear your thoughts on it.

[thomasb]

Bull crap, people cheat because of something missing in themselves, not in their relationships. What they are missing is honesty and integrity. And I should know. They are inherently selfish. The only true way to live is an honest life.

[Minnie09]

I am not a man, but do have experience with cheating men, and what he says is nothing extraordinary. You make it sound like it is.

What I hear is that he is not unhappy in his M, that he loves her, cares deeply for her, etc. How they got there doesn't matter. He says they had to get married, because their families wouldn't have tolerated them living together otherwise, and they both didn't want to move back in with their parents after college. So what? It can be true, it may be a lie, in order to lure you in and make you feel special. You'll probably never know.

It's all a game and you're both enjoying it. He can create a whole new personality just for you, just for the A. He can create the person he wants to be. Since you only get parts of his life, and not his whole life, he can play whatever role he thinks is most attractive. It's just a fantasy.

And if it's true? If they did get married for the reasons above? In which way does it matter? Is it bad? Is it good? Many M start that way or similar, and they're not any happier or unhappier than any other R or M. What's the point, really?

[Steadfast]

I am not a man, but do have experience with cheating men, and what he says is nothing extraordinary. You make it sound like it is.

What I hear is that he is not unhappy in his M, that he loves her, cares deeply for her, etc. How they got there doesn't matter. He says they had to get married, because their families wouldn't have tolerated them living together otherwise, and they both didn't want to move back in with their parents after college. So what? It can be true, it may be a lie, in order to lure you in and make you feel special. You'll probably never know.

It's all a game and you're both enjoying it. He can create a whole new personality just for you, just for the A. He can create the person he wants to be. Since you only get parts of his life, and not his whole life, he can play whatever role he thinks is most attractive. It's just a fantasy.

And if it's true? If they did get married for the reasons above? In which way does it matter? Is it bad? Is it good? Many M start that way or similar, and they're not any happier or unhappier than any other R or M. What's the point, really?

 

If I were you OP, I'd read the above over a few times and think it over. Fabulous post, nothing to add, but I'm deeply impressed with the communication and insight.

[carrie999]

I am not a man, but do have experience with cheating men, and what he says is nothing extraordinary. You make it sound like it is.

What I hear is that he is not unhappy in his M, that he loves her, cares deeply for her, etc. How they got there doesn't matter. He says they had to get married, because their families wouldn't have tolerated them living together otherwise, and they both didn't want to move back in with their parents after college. So what? It can be true, it may be a lie, in order to lure you in and make you feel special. You'll probably never know.

 

Fair enough. I didn't tell the whole story. I've known them since well before they were married. He's not trying to make me feel special. What I presented was a combination of what I know from the outside and what he has said from his own perspective. I asked him what made him cheat, and he simply explained that it WASN'T something wrong in his relationship, but something he was missing that he didn't even know he had missed.

 

It's all a game and you're both enjoying it. He can create a whole new personality just for you, just for the A. He can create the person he wants to be. Since you only get parts of his life, and not his whole life, he can play whatever role he thinks is most attractive. It's just a fantasy.

 

I wish it was that simple. It's not a game. If it was a game for either of us, it would have been over by now. We've all known one another for years, and neither of us expected this to ever happen. Even after our first few encounters, we were both hoping it was a purely sexual/fantasy/fun thing that we could move past quickly and maybe look back upon as a brief lapse in judgment that we'd never have to share with anyone else, but instead learn from it...

 

And if it's true? If they did get married for the reasons above? In which way does it matter? Is it bad? Is it good? Many M start that way or similar, and they're not any happier or unhappier than any other R or M. What's the point, really?

Again, I didn't present the situation quite correctly. They do love one another, and did then too. I was just conveying a deeper problem for him (if not her too): they moved quickly at a young age because it was easier than dealing with their home situations. My brother and his wife got married at the same age, and the situation was parallel but different in this regard: they knew they needed to experience life separately to some extent. They were never nearly as dependent on one another, and actively sought very separate social lives in college. I can't convey the subtle nuances that make these two relationships so very different, but suffice it to say, they're much happier and more sure of themselves and one another today.

 

I appreciate all the responses, but I'm not looking for sympathy here. I'm also not looking for someone to tell me this guy thinks "I'm special." This post really isn't about ME or my relationship with this person. I really am interested in hearing more about his perspective from anyone (male or female) who has been in his shoes. By that, I mean someone who is a bit of a romantic and kind of rushed into the "fairytale" marriage at a young age, both to escape some harsh realities in their families, and in hopes of creating the "perfect" American dream for themselves. Have any of you been here? Five or ten or fifteen years later, realizing you missed out by seeking the comfort of marriage and missing out on growing in some other way?

[Woman In Blue]

Has anyone (male or female) been through this? He was just a very traditional guy who married his high school sweetheart because he loved her and that was the logical next step. He never got bored with her, but also never dated anyone else or experienced anything like what we have...in all fairness, in years of dating great guys, neither have I...

LOL...of course he's never "experienced anything like this." It's his first affair and it's taboo, secretive, exciting, and a huge lift to his ego. What's not to like?

 

What you two fail to realize is if you were both single and had met, you might have this passion for a small time, but like with anything, it fades over time. The secretness and wrongness of what you're doing, however, will keep the passion and longing going indefinitely.

 

You'll realize that one day.

[Snowflower]

By that, I mean someone who is a bit of a romantic and kind of rushed into the "fairytale" marriage at a young age, both to escape some harsh realities in their families, and in hopes of creating the "perfect" American dream for themselves. Have any of you been here? Five or ten or fifteen years later, realizing you missed out by seeking the comfort of marriage and missing out on growing in some other way?

 

Pick a word:

 

Justification

Excuses

Rationalizing

Reasons

 

Because that is what your MM is using to start/continue an affair.

 

It doesn't matter why or when someone got married. To use the excuse, "oh I got married too young or for the wrong reasons" is just a poor excuse to try to excuse the inexcusable.

 

As another poster here said, who cares why or when they got married? If they got married for the wrong reasons, wouldn't they have realized it by now? Besides, there are plenty of people out there who marry under the "right" conditions and still end up divorced.

 

Saying they got married because that is what is supposed to happen or to (LOL) avoid getting in trouble with parents for living together is the same line of reasoning as saying the BW/BH is a horrible person so that makes it somehow okay to cheat on her/him.

 

It's all excuses and justification to alleviate the guilt that comes with being involved in an A.

 

Carrie, please don't use your MM justifications to go further into this. It will only lead to heartache and confusion for you.

[goingstrong]

Carrie, I'm going to tell you a couple of things here that you're probably not going to want to hear because I am sure your relationship with your MM is the magic "special" one the defies all rules, but here goes anyway.

 

After reading most of the infidelity posts, and from my own personal experience, (I was the OM to a MW when I was single, and it was the thrill of the chase and conquest for me...The rest is just filler material.....).men have affairs for 2 reasons.

 

1. The thrill of the chase

2. The sex

 

Period. finish..end..there are no other reasons. If they're offering an EA for you, it is to get their PA part. If they want conversation, the talk to their buddies. If they want companionship, they get a dog.

 

Sorry, sad but true.

Edited November 10, 2010 by goingstrong

[carrie999]

Clearly I'm not making my point. My intention here was to hear from others who have been in HIS situation. But even beyond that, I'm not worried about being "special."

 

In our case, the affair is really more emotional than sexual, though the physical connection is profound. He doesn't have to chase me. And even if he did, he wouldn't put in the time that he does just for a sexual relationship.

 

We chat intermittently all day at work, and at night after our SOs go to sleep. We talk about everything, and none of it is sexual...we're too shy to talk about sex unless we're physically together, which is rare in our long-distance affair. We talk about our lives and hopes and dreams, and all things past and present. We share thoughts we're too afraid to share with most people.

 

If this was about sex alone, it would be simple. There's a friendship and a deeper connection here that neither of us wants to lose. That's much more important to us, and he said from early on (before we got so close) that he was terrified of losing that because he doesn't have that depth of connection with even his own siblings and closest friends. And he can't fully share his deepest feelings with his wife because she's really quite fragile and falls apart at the first sign that he's not her "rock" and actually has moments where he is completely vulnerable.

 

I don't need him to be my rock, and I don't even need this relationship to work out in the fairytale sense. I want us to maintain this closeness, because we actually do have a real connection. If that weren't true, and it was truly about the sex, neither of us would invest in this with our time and our feelings. Like I said, the physical connection is mind-blowing, but the ratio of emotional to physical is probably 1/10 (at best) of what even normal married couples experience.

 

So I'll ask one last time...has anyone else been there?

[alexandria35]

I don't think people are missing your point. Yes your married man has never experinced this before if he has never been in an affair before. Extramarital affairs are usually very emotionally charged and heady experiences. He isn't saying anything that hasn't already been said by other married people in affairs. It's typical affair jargon. People tend to let their normal boundaries go in an affair and open up more to their affair partners. I think it's because it is a fantasy relationship. He doesn't have to live up to any expectations or real life responsibilities to you. I'm sure you have what you consider to be deep and meaningful conversations with each other, but it stops there. You don't share bills, household chores, childrearing, extended families and whatever other unromantic mundane details exist in a marriage. In real life we don't get to sit around with our partners and discuss our deepest darkest secrets all day. We have to attend to our responsibilites and in a family what one person does can have an affect on everyone else within that family. This is not the case in an affair. A married person can get comfort, encouragement and praise from an affair partner more easily then from the BW because what he does in his day to day life doesn't affect the OW like it affects the family. If he quits his job, goes to the bars too much, handles the family finances irresponsibily, yells at the kids, kicks the dog, well the affair partner doesn't see that stuff and even if she/he did it has no bearing on their life directly so they don't hold the married person to the same standards that the family does. Which makes it real easy for the man in an affair to just let it all hang out for his affair partner. It's an escape from real life and all the pressure and responsibilites that come with real life.

 

Years ago I had a rather short relationship that involved really opening up and baring our souls to each other. We dated for a year when my children were still little. The guy I was seeing didn't ever really want to be involved in my daily life as I think he was quite leery of being involved with a single mother. We would go out on dates and have these deep conversations where we told each other everything about ourselves. All the bad stuff as well as the good stuff. Occasionally my mom would keep my kids overnight so I would sleep over at this guys house and have great sex and even more deep soul searching conversations. We could easily talk all night. It was quite nice and fun too! but after a while I noticed that this was all there was to our relationship. He didn't want to be my real fulltime partner, and he purposely stayed on the outskirts of my daily life. Oh sure I could call him up and tell him about a problem I was having and he would be more than happy to listen, but that was as far as it went. He didn't want me to have any expectations of him beyond talking and ****ing. Fair enough. We were only dating and that was his right. That wasn't enough for me and I moved on.

[woinlove]

As I mentioned on your other thread, I think it is good that you are examining his and your motivations for having an A. However, it is probably unrealistic to expect to really understand your motivations while you are both still married and carrying on your A (and I'm assuming from what you have posted, that is the case, although you also say your MM is "with you" now - so it is not completely clear.)

 

While in the midst of an A, essentially everyone rationalizes their actions and, in particular, if one is thinking of or fantasizing about being with their AP and ending their M, then one needs to view the M negatively or lacking in some way. However, from my own interactions with MM and from other's experiences, it seems that those who learn not to cheat come to recognize what it was inside themselves that allowed them to cheat, rather than responding by turning their attention to their M and spouse and/or figuring out whether they wanted to end the M before turning their romantic attentions to another person. Typically, they come to see their former behavior as selfish and learn to be less selfish and more able to think of others. Other factors, besides selfishness, might be involved as well.

 

Selfish people might be more or less likely to cheat depending on the current state of their M, but that state of the M is not the key to understanding why they cheat.

 

It might be more revealing to ask your MM what he thinks it is about himself that allowed him to have an A. However, as I said, full clarity on this is unlikely until well after the A and/or M are over.

[jennie-jennie]

Clearly I'm not making my point. My intention here was to hear from others who have been in HIS situation. But even beyond that, I'm not worried about being "special."

 

In our case, the affair is really more emotional than sexual, though the physical connection is profound. He doesn't have to chase me. And even if he did, he wouldn't put in the time that he does just for a sexual relationship.

 

We chat intermittently all day at work, and at night after our SOs go to sleep. We talk about everything, and none of it is sexual...we're too shy to talk about sex unless we're physically together, which is rare in our long-distance affair. We talk about our lives and hopes and dreams, and all things past and present. We share thoughts we're too afraid to share with most people.

 

If this was about sex alone, it would be simple. There's a friendship and a deeper connection here that neither of us wants to lose. That's much more important to us, and he said from early on (before we got so close) that he was terrified of losing that because he doesn't have that depth of connection with even his own siblings and closest friends. And he can't fully share his deepest feelings with his wife because she's really quite fragile and falls apart at the first sign that he's not her "rock" and actually has moments where he is completely vulnerable.

 

I don't need him to be my rock, and I don't even need this relationship to work out in the fairytale sense. I want us to maintain this closeness, because we actually do have a real connection. If that weren't true, and it was truly about the sex, neither of us would invest in this with our time and our feelings. Like I said, the physical connection is mind-blowing, but the ratio of emotional to physical is probably 1/10 (at best) of what even normal married couples experience.

 

So I'll ask one last time...has anyone else been there?

 

It sounds like my MM. He was happily married and loved his wife, but it turned out something was still missing. I think it is the difference between being a good husband and a father and being a peer.

 

I would look into the split self affair if I were you, and see if it rings any bells.

[Dexter Morgan]

Okay, so in the course of sorting out this tangled web, I told MM that I don't believe we cheat unless something is missing in our current relationships.

 

you believe that because you want to be able to use it as an excuse.

 

many times the only thing missing is the person doing the cheating just can't handle having sex with the same person for an extended period of time. Call it wanting variety or being fickle.

 

 

In my case, I've wondered if it's just me. My SO is incredible and we have a great relationship, but I've never felt a connection like I felt with MM even before we started this and I admitted to myself I had actual feelings for him. There's nothing "wrong" with my relationship

 

yes, there is...............you

 

now I'm assuming that you are not cheating on your current SO. So why would there be anything wrong with the relationship if you aren't with MM now?.........because you are fixated on it. If the relationship were great, and your SO is awesome, then why waste time wondering about your connection with MM?

 

if I was with someone and they said they loved me and everything seemed great, but I either knew, or she told me, that she was pining over the connection she had with someone else......I'd move on.

[Dexter Morgan]

 

I appreciate all the responses, but I'm not looking for sympathy here. I'm also not looking for someone to tell me this guy thinks "I'm special."

 

so you are seeing MM behind your SO's back? its not clear.

 

if so, again, there is a problem in the relationship, and its you.

 

If your SO is so wonderful, and you are in fact messing around with someone else, or, if not, at the very least pining over someone else, have you thought about letting your SO go since this isn't fair to him?

[Dexter Morgan]

Clearly I'm not making my point. My intention here was to hear from others who have been in HIS situation.

 

and clearly you don't know the main audience in a forum such as this. most people come here because they have suffered at the hands of people like the MM and yourself.

 

But if you want to focus on what that MM is thinking and hearing from other cheaters, then most responses you get here are going to be that of not giving a crap about what a cheater thinks.

 

 

But even beyond that, I'm not worried about being "special."

 

wrong, otherwise you wouldn't give a crap and ask questions about his mindset.

 

 

If this was about sex alone, it would be simple. There's a friendship and a deeper connection here that neither of us wants to lose.

 

then break up with your SO so he can find someone equally as wonderful that won't eff him over in this way.

 

 

I don't need him to be my rock, and I don't even need this relationship to work out in the fairytale sense. I want us to maintain this closeness, because we actually do have a real connection.

 

you cannot maintain any kind of "friendship" with this cheating jackass without disrespecting your significant other any more than you already have.

 

Set your SO free from you.

 

 

 

If that weren't true, and it was truly about the sex, neither of us would invest in this with our time and our feelings. Like I said, the physical connection is mind-blowing, but the ratio of emotional to physical is probably 1/10 (at best) of what even normal married couples experience.

 

So I'll ask one last time...has anyone else been there?

 

why do you think anyone in a part of a forum that comes here mainly because they were treated like dogs##t by people like you and the MM care what he thinks about you and his relationship?

 

Sure, you can post this here, but you take what you get. This would be better received in the OM/OW forum where they don't care who they hurt.

[kuma]

And he can't fully share his deepest feelings with his wife because she's really quite fragile and falls apart at the first sign that he's not her "rock" and actually has moments where he is completely vulnerable.

 

I thought they didn't have true marital issues. They have a problem. They can't openly communicate with each other.

Edited November 10, 2010 by kuma

[goingstrong]

Carrie,

 

A person believes what they want to believe and disregards the rest. All the other stuff...emotional...is filler on his part. Cheaters are awesome liars as well. I put the disclaimer on my prior post. Believe what you want....

[carrie999]

All very good points, and well said. Sounds like I'm not going to hear from a MM or MW who is/was in his shoes, but I'm glad to hear from others who have their own insights into this. I'm certainly not on the defense or looking to make excuses for either of our behavior...just trying to understand better. And your posts have all given me a bit of clarity.

 

One thing that is particularly poignant from previous posts is the "fantasy" idea. I keep thinking this is hard for him because he misses me and makes so much time for me and is so conflicted about both making a decision and his own ethics with regard to his marriage. I AM a better match for him than his wife, and he's kicking himself for rushing into a marriage so young and not learning more about himself first, or taking any time to figure out what he really wanted in a partner.

 

But in reality, our relationship IS easy for him. As you all pointed out in varying ways, there is no responsibility...I'm there to listen, and to offer support and mend his wounds...and though he listens to me too, he doesn't have to deal with my problems in any real way. We have talked at length about things a normal dating couple getting serious would, and our plans and visions for our futures all line up.

 

I think part of what makes it harder for him is that his wife has been dependent on him for everything since she was 15 years old. She's never made a decision without his input. She's an emotional rollercoaster and he's always been the one to calm her down and "fix" the problems in her life. He created that for himself. And yes, the major problem in their marriage is just that...something he created and isn't being honest about with her.

 

I, on the other hand, have been extremely independent (big part of his attraction to me), and have always managed my own problems with as little help as possible. I never wanted to rely on anyone for anything beyond emotional support in the form of talking things out, and I generally rely on my family and friends for that. This isn't something I'd discuss with anyone else, which is why I'm posting here...and planning to seek counseling to sort out this mess I've gotten myself into.

 

I'm sorry for those who are victims of affairs like this. I've never cheated before this or been the OW in a relationship, which is equally bad in my opinion. I could never admit this to those closest to me, because we've all held cheaters in very low regard...the only "dealbreaker" to any of us in a marriage (ahead of alcoholism and drug abuse) is cheating, because it's a fundamental betrayal.

 

So I never thought I'd be here, which is why I'm trying to figure out how good people go astray, and trying to "fix" myself now. And trying to understand him, so maybe we can move beyond this.

[Minnie09]

It's almost annoying to read the same old same old. I'm sorry if you're suffering, I don't even know whether or not you are, but what immediately caught my attention is the wife's role in here, and how he makes her look. No matter what you may think, Carrie, it's all part of the A plot. And I really don't want to hurt your feelings, but this is soooooooo typical. I really want to hear something else for a change. As shallow as it may sound, I am almost eager to hear an A plot that is interesting and new, but what is NOT new is this: how MM portrays the W as uninteresting, weak and dependent (this is how he makes himself bigger, smarter, stronger)....how utterly lame

OW (= you) is told that she's so independent and strong, and thus (more) attractive (than bW) = ego boost for you

Because the W is weak, yet lovely, committed (to him of course, coz he's such a great guy) and a "good person", he still cares for her, which complicates anything that does even remotely look like a change in his life.

 

Give me a new plot, someone! It's getting boring here.

 

I don't mean to be nasty, OP, the whole thing is just soooo predictable. Again, I wish you all the best. What are your plans?

[carrie999]

I'm sorry to bore you, Minnie, and I can't say I plan to find a more interesting situation than this one, as this is much more than I ever wanted to handle. He may be a villain in this story, but one thing he has never done was complained about his wife. I've known them both since before they were even married, and this is MY take on the situation. He's not slamming her or building me up. And believe me, my ego has only taken a beating (from myself, no other) since this started and the guilt set in after our first kiss.

 

He has been (functionally speaking) the head of his own immediate family since high school due to their issues, and he chose to marry someone who needed him at lat least as badly as they did. That's his problem, obviously. And in all the years of our friendship, he never talked about it, and I wondered how he shouldered all of this while remaining so even-keel. It wasn't until we became closer that I understood how much he's been holding in, since the two people closest to him are ones that either rely upon him to be steady or just don't talk that deeply about these things.

 

Again, not an excuse for his behavior, but he hasn't said a bad word about her. I can't either, given how guilty I feel about this situation. I just see a young guy who took on way too much emotionally and is probably finally crumbling under that weight, and I understand his need to escape...if only to a friend who he deems strong enough to listen to everything he's held inside for so long. If (in some perfect world) it ends up that I am that person, all this pain may be worth it. Because he's also one of the few people I've ever known who gets me, and can handle whatever I have to say to him as well.

 

Boring story, but it is what it is. Maybe we can make something work without causing destruction. That's all I've got for you.

[woinlove]

So, it sounds like your spouses are still in the dark.

 

It is sad that he was not the kind of man who could say to his wife, I can't continue supporting and caring for you because I am not getting the support I need, so our marriage either needs to change or I need to be on my own. I will try to help you make the transition, but I can't keep living like this.

 

Instead, he chose to deceive her and get involved with you and now his marriage is a lie and his wife doesn't know it. To understand why he chose to treat someone that way, someone he says he loves, he needs to look into himself, not look into his wife.

[U2RockZz]

you can do wht ever you wanted do with your life,but not at somebody's expense....especially not your SO's..who is currently blindsided by a two faced woman...the only leverage he (SO) has is that he is not married to you....better let him go...don't ruin his life/time....while you are ruining yours

[Schism]

Carrie, listen to these people. Just get out of your EA/PA and focus on your marriage which I can gaurantee you is not meeting all of your needs as you say it is. I was just like you and "justified" the emotional affair to keep meeting my unmet needs for emotional support from an "unexplainable deep connection". You end up detaching from your husband and attaching to the OM. It is a recipe for marital disaster.

 

Luckily when I came clean, my husband was gracious enough to forgive me and work with me to restore our loving bond. We are not without our occasional turmoils, but it is a choice you have to make to love and forsake all others. You can't have it both ways, dear. FWIW... I have been married for over 20 years and am in my late fourties.

[goingstrong]

Carrie, I have noticed that the infidelity forum is more geared towards the "victims", perhaps you'll have better luck on the OM/OW forum.

[Dexter Morgan]

Carrie, I have noticed that the infidelity forum is more geared towards the "victims", perhaps you'll have better luck on the OM/OW forum.

 

I second this and have said this.

 

she doesn't seem to want to focus on the wrong she is doing...she wants to know whats in the MM's head. and my response is, who cares? OM/OW forum will care much more about this than the ones in this forum.

 

When you are in a part of a support site that, as you say, is geared more towards the "victims" of such actions, then nobody really gives a hoot about what the MM is thinking when the real question is...."what are you going to do to do right by your husband?"