let me play a violin for the cheater

[JustJoe]

With all the service personnel who go to the sandbox and get cheated on if this guy is in the service himself you would think he would have known better, right?

Catch 22, NLS, this guy wasn't eligible for overseas duty, because of other legal problems.

[Spark1111]

Absolutely agree with you. And TBH, the gaslighting was a horrible mental abuse - as most of us know. That's why I say affairs are so damaging, whether you ever catch them or not. It can make you crazy trying to figure out what's wrong with YOU that is making him act distant, or cold, or whatever. And he won't tell you anything; you can't "fix" it. Crazy-making!

 

And I really think, like Mimo said, there is a definite link between the cheating and the physical abuse.

 

Which, back to the original post, is why it is so amazing that OM/OW and WS's get so offended at honestly expressed POV about their affairs. Because they are participating in real-life abuse. I just think some don't realize it.

 

Well, someone who physically, verbally and emotionally abuses you, still blameshifts and gaslights you that it was your fault, you deserved it, and tries to convince you that your memeory of events leading up to the abuse is faulty and wrong.

 

How is an affair any different? It is not!

 

And the most recent studies have shown a correlation to serial abuse with serial cheating....

 

Big shocker, I know!

 

But poor coping skills in relationships transfer into....poor coping skills in relationships!

 

Imagine that?

[Dexter Morgan]

OK so JJ was with someone else's wife, that doesn't mean he doesn't have a valid point.

 

making an excuse for cheating isn't valid. there is no excuse for cheating. there are excuses and reasons to get out of the relationship.

[JustJoe]

so what? it still doesn't excuse cheating....get out of the relationship. and if abuse, mainly physical, was in the equation, then what the hell are they thinking? that if the abuser found out they are going to cower like a puppy? or would it be more likely that they just put their lives in danger?

 

 

 

ah, I remember now...this was basically your excuse for being with someone elses wife.

Yep, Dex, and we are still together, and will be for a long time to come. She is a much better woman, and I'm no-longer the OM. She realizes that the marriage was wacked, and she should have left sooner, and NOT cheated, but we all can't see things as clearly as you do. This, BTW, in no way invalidates my opinion.

[Dexter Morgan]

Yep, Dex, and we are still together, and will be for a long time to come.

 

huh? uh...last I heard she broke it off and you had learned your lesson about messing around with a cheater:confused:

 

did she come back and you all of a sudden realized that her lying and cheating were ok qualities for a woman?

[Spark1111]

(Dex), the preconception I was refering to is that you seem to believe that all marriages are "of the heart", when many (like my GF'S) were not. BTW I used this woman's situation , NOT to justify cheating, but to show that there are circumstances, in some marriages, that complicate the issue. (FOG,) you have my deepest respect for your resiliency and courage. (NID) I have talked to this woman several times since I left the service and she IS attending counseling for her personal issues. (DIC) AS an officer , there was only so much that I could do , legally, to assist her and to try to get her H into anger management counseling. I can't ORDER him to attend. The religious aspect, I will leave to those who practice it.

 

JJ, I will not judge those who abuse, the abused, or those who cheat to get out of a horrible relationship.

 

I think what Dex, NID and others are trying to point out, is that wherever you go, there you are.

 

It takes very poor coping skills to abuse a spouse. It takes equally poor coping skills to stay in that relationship.

 

Don't we read, ad nauseum, at LS of who can't leave their miserable marriage, or miserable affair relationship?

 

Too often to count.

 

So for some of us jaded by excuses, oh so many excuses, we fervently wish people would not hurt others on their path to true evolving, no matter what course it takes.

We wish people could become fully actualized adults without leaving a path of excuses and self-destructive heart break in their paths to ownership of their actions.

 

That, I think, is really what it is about.

[Fieldsofgold]

With all the service personnel who go to the sandbox and get cheated on if this guy is in the service himself you would think he would have known better, right?

 

While I don't agree at all with his affair, I do respect his service to our country.

 

And, while it doesn't make it all right, at some point early on, I think, he did say, this is wrong, and talked f2f with the BH. If I remember the story correctly.

 

I would have been grateful, even to a woman f'ing my husband, had she come

to me and said, here's what's going on. I would have given ALMOST ANYTHING. Just to know the truth. I tried so hard to learn the truth, but everyone lied to me. It would have spared me a lot more mental and physical harm, if I could have known.

[Dexter Morgan]

ok, lets take all this cheating defense, and for obvious reasons, and turn it around.

 

I actually know someone that treated his wife horribly BECAUSE she cheated. So I could say his mental abuse of her was brought about by her mental abuse of him through her cheating.

 

........but........its not an excuse..............

[NoLongerSad]

Catch 22, NLS, this guy wasn't eligible for overseas duty, because of other legal problems.

 

 

I'm a little confused now, I thought you were talking about yourself.

 

It doesn't matter anyway. The point is that the service man who was cheating should have known better because of all the guys who go overseas and get cheated on; even IF the guy himself was ineligible due to his legal problems.

[JustJoe]

huh? uh...last I heard she broke it off and you had learned your lesson about messing around with a cheater:confused:

 

did she come back and you all of a sudden realized that her lying and cheating were ok qualities for a woman?

She would never "break it off", with me, and she is so much better of a person, that even you might like her:D You obviously mis-read my posts. BTW I have never made any excuses, just given different persectives as "food for thought", about this issue.

[JustJoe]

I'm a little confused now, I thought you were talking about yourself.

 

It doesn't matter anyway. The point is that the service man who was cheating should have known better because of all the guys who go overseas and get cheated on; even IF the guy himself was ineligible due to his legal problems.

NLS, cheating in the Armed Forces isn't any more prevalent, than in any other marriage where one spouse is away for long periods.

[JustJoe]

Soory about the spelling, it should have been "perspectives",......duh!

[NoLongerSad]

While I don't agree at all with his affair, I do respect his service to our country.

 

Ordinarily I would agree with that but assuming he was talking about himself (I'm confused about who he exactly is talking about), JJ stated that he was having some sort of legal problems that made him ineligible to serve overseas. I'd need to know what those legal problems were before I could give him automatic props just for being in the service, esp. when he doesn't seem to understand the horrible impact cheating often has for those of his brothers in arms who ARE or WERE in harm's way overseas.

 

And, while it doesn't make it all right, at some point early on, I think, he did say, this is wrong, and talked f2f with the BH. If I remember the story correctly.

 

He talked face to face with the betrayed husband and is still among the living? Well he's courageous that's for sure.

 

 

I would have been grateful, even to a woman f'ing my husband, had she come

to me and said, here's what's going on. I would have given ALMOST ANYTHING. Just to know the truth. I tried so hard to learn the truth, but everyone lied to me. It would have spared me a lot more mental and physical harm, if I could have known.

 

 

Yes but in this case JJ is denigrating his affair partner's marriage and her betrayed spouse as an abuser so depending on the nature of the conversation it could have been just a way of rubbing the guy's face in the affair.

[NoLongerSad]

NLS, cheating in the Armed Forces isn't any more prevalent, than in any other marriage where one spouse is away for long periods.

 

 

JJ, that's not the point.

 

You don't see how damaging it can be for someone who is risking their life overseas, getting shot at, having IED's blowing up their buddies, to be cheated on back home?

 

Wow, talk about clueless. Buddy you have some issues.

 

Tell us what your "legal problems" exactly were that you mentioned and rendered you INELIGIBLE to serve overseas.

 

What the heck did you do? People here are giving you props for serving, but you cheated with a married woman (was she in the service too? A subordinate, maybe?) AND you were in some pretty serious legal hack. Given the personnel shortages whatever you did must have been pretty bad to be the reason you were ineligible for overseas duty.

[wicar1]

If a H/W cheats and puts his/her partner in shock,trauma and as a result if the BS commits suicide, is it physical abuse?? Is it murder??

[NoLongerSad]

making an excuse for cheating isn't valid. there is no excuse for cheating. there are excuses and reasons to get out of the relationship.

 

 

Yes I think you're right.

 

Now I think JJ is just trying to justify his cheating, there's really no other explanation for whatever it is he thinks he's trying to explain.

[JustJoe]

JJ, that's not the point.

 

You don't see how damaging it can be for someone who is risking their life overseas, getting shot at, having IED's blowing up their buddies, to be cheated on back home?

 

Wow, talk about clueless. Buddy you have some issues.

 

Tell us what your "legal problems" exactly were that you mentioned and rendered you INELIGIBLE to serve overseas.

 

What the heck did you do? People here are giving you props for serving, but you cheated with a married woman (was she in the service too? A subordinate, maybe?) AND you were in some pretty serious legal hack. Given the personnel shortages whatever you did must have been pretty bad to be the reason you were ineligible for overseas duty.

NLS, What are you talking about? I served 4 deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan. Perhaps you should read the whole thread? I was talking about a subordinate.

[pureinheart]

 

OK, I HAVE TO respond to this. First let me say that I have not been following this thread, so I don't know all that led to this topic. Second, Yellowshark, I respect you and your opinions, enjoy reading your posts, and always agree with you --- until now.*

 

That said, having lived through both serial cheating, and physical/psychological abuse - I'd take cheating over the other abuse any day. There is no greater betrayal than wondering if today is the day your beloved, the man who pledged to love and cherish you forever, the man you share children with, is going to torture you, mutilate you, and snuff your life out like it was nothing. THAT IS THE ULTIMATE BETRAYAL, and to say cheating is worse is, in the words of JamieA, just f***ed up. Live it for a year or two, heal the broken bones without medical attention, fear for the lives of your children and loved ones if he thinks you've told anyone, keep a loaded gun wih you 24/7 for years, because he's promised to step out from*behind a building or a car, and kill you, he's threatened to mutilate and torture *and kill you and your family if you tell anyone, he's held a loaded revolver with the hammer cocked to your infant child's head - live all that, and then come*back and we'll talk about the ultimate betrayal.*

 

Let me tell you, for years, I slept (If/when I slept) sitting up in a corner, behind a pile of boxes, fully clothed to shoes, with a loaded gun in my lap, in a room with two exits. I kept stuff stacked all over my house (sort of like the hoarders you see on tv shows), so that my xH could not easily sneak up on me. (he had a nasty habit of breaking in my house to beat me.) A little bit like a soldier in enemy territory 24/7, except there's no going home - ever. At the grocery store, church, school, everywhere I went, I was looking over my shoulder, with a gun in my purse, because he had promised what he would do, and he didn't fear G-d or the law. While I have healed for the most part, and live like a "normal" person, it is only because G-d delivered me from a spirit of fear, and gave me power, love and a sound mind. (Bible, II Timothy 1:7)

 

Even so, typing this today, nearly 40 years later, evokes surprising emotions.

 

I can't condone carrying on an affair all the while living with abuse. But if the abuse is severe enough - I'm talking really bad, life-threatening, soul-destroying abuse *- I really would not be surprised or blame someone under those conditions for what they might do. That kind of long-term abuse takes you out of your right mind. It's like soldiers who return from POW camps, who are "shell-shocked." You don't really hold them responsible, because of what they went through. Well I'm here to tell you, people who have been severely abused, are no different - except that the government doesn't have an agency to help them. They don't get disability for it. They often don't get community support.*

***

No I don't condone affairs, no I never had one, but when someonenhas been through severe abuse, I don't blame them for nearly anything they do.

 

If someone had come along and rescued me, I very well might have slept with them, IDK. After all, I am a mere mortal. Thankfully that is why we have "forgiveness."*

 

I do believe that cheating IS abuse - I was cheated on repeatedly - but I would never say it is the ultimate betrayal. Just MHO.

 

(Sorry for the long and rambling post)*

 

FOG, I am so sorry this happened to you (((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))...I worked with a lady who recently passed ...she waited to retire at 73, an absolute amazing lady. Anyway she had huge scares on her face ...from her forehead to chin ...her H knifed her.

 

"Torture" is more common than people think...

 

FOG, those things never really leave us....

[JustJoe]

FOG, I am so sorry this happened to you (((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))...I worked with a lady who recently passed ...she waited to retire at 73, an absolute amazing lady. Anyway she had huge scares on her face ...from her forehead to chin ...her H knifed her.

 

"Torture" is more common than people think...

 

FOG, those things never really leave us....

My point exactly, PIH.

[pureinheart]

Thanks, Mimo. G-d, and that second-hand .357 I bought!

 

This is good! Mine was a 44 that had a kick so much so that I could hardly fire it!!!!!!! Oh that was a beautiful piece...gold ploated handle and everything!

[pureinheart]

My point exactly, PIH.

 

I haven't had a chance to catch up with the recents in this thread...but please don't tell me her ex tortured her....OMG, I know you are...I am so very sorry...

[NoLongerSad]

NLS, What are you talking about? I served 4 deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan. Perhaps you should read the whole thread? I was talking about a subordinate.

 

 

Actually, you've been talking about both yourself and I guess also about a subordinate's situation in this thread, haven't you?

 

Are you saying that anything about your situation OR your subordinate's situation justified whatever cheating either of you did?

 

Were either of you horribly abused by a spouse, thus "driving" you into the arms of a lover?

[JustJoe]

NLS, I make no excuses for my own situation. I was the OM, I cheated on nobody. The subordinate and his wife's situation , I can understand, because of the level and viciousness of the abuse she suffered. I have seen her face after one of her 'episodes', with her loving and devoted husband. Not pretty.

[Fieldsofgold]

JJ, I will not judge those who abuse, the abused, or those who cheat to get out of a horrible relationship.

 

I think what Dex, NID and others are trying to point out, is that wherever you go, there you are.

 

It takes very poor coping skills to abuse a spouse. It takes equally poor coping skills to stay in that relationship.

 

Don't we read, ad nauseum, at LS of who can't leave their miserable marriage, or miserable affair relationship?

 

Too often to count.

 

So for some of us jaded by excuses, oh so many excuses, we fervently wish people would not hurt others on their path to true evolving, no matter what course it takes.

We wish people could become fully actualized adults without leaving a path of excuses and self-destructive heart break in their paths to ownership of their actions.

 

That, I think, is really what it is about.

 

With all due respect, Spark, sometimes it takes more than good coping skills to get out of an abusive relationship alive. Sometimes even court orders aren't enough, depending on how determined and deadly the abuser is. No excuse; just fact.

[ilovelife75]

love is a verb, not a noun.

 

Its not some magical, mysterious force..That's passion, lust, desire. And that kinda feeling has a shelf life of about 2 years, give or take. Love, the kind that most people want, is a choice, a conscious, daily choice, a commitment that is made every day. So I disagree with those of you who say you can't help who you fall in love with. Yes you can.

 

And as someone who has been both a BS and a victim of DV and lost a child, no, they are not the same, but they are similar in that they change you, they all cause so much pain and destruction that life is never the same.