Fieldsofgold Posted November 15, 2010 Posted November 15, 2010 cheating is definitely not the "worst" things someone can do to you, but it is the worst form of "betrayal" in my mind. I still think physical abuse is the worse betrayal. You can't trust your spouse not to kill you or your children? That's pretty fundamental.
Fieldsofgold Posted November 15, 2010 Posted November 15, 2010 Whoa FOG. God bless your heart bebe. You are one true survivor. God delivers babygirl! I still don't see how sleeping with someone fixes anything?! It's a temporary cure to a permanent issue. Sends you to a cloud till your lights are punched out again. Why not find a way to get YOURSELF out. Unfortunate that people may find comfort and thrills in another person, yet they lack the courage and resources to find help within organizations. Thanks, Mimo. G-d, and that second-hand .357 I bought!
NoLongerSad Posted November 15, 2010 Posted November 15, 2010 I still think physical abuse is the worse betrayal. You can't trust your spouse not to kill you or your children? That's pretty fundamental. OK but you didn't cheat, and you were seriously abused. Even if calling cheating the worst thing ever is hyperbpole, I don't think people who have cheated or have been affair partners, and have NOT been abused the way you were, have any business trying to justify what they did by saying "Oh my there are much worse things than cheating."
Mimolicious Posted November 15, 2010 Posted November 15, 2010 This is something I've wondered many times since coming to this website. BS's here think that adultry is the WORST thing in the world that can happen to a human. I will always disagree with that. Have personally seen MUCH worse. There are MANY MANY things in this world that are far worse than someone cheating. For ME (since I can't speak for everyone) Cheating added.....SANITY! Oh Dear....Enlighten me then......WHY does a thief steal? Why does a drug or alcohol abuser do what they do? Hone, a man that cheats and plays you like a basketball a lot of times goes hand in hand with the same dude that beats the ish out of you and gives you smokey eyes for a week. Don't say that is not the worst thing. Once a man (sorry if this is gender biased) gets caught, he can get raged and beat the lights out of you. Been there. I have a friend who's H ONLY started to physically abuse her after he started having an A. He was so bothered that she "stood in the way" of him shacking some OW, that he started to hate her to the point of beating her. She had no idea where this rage was coming from till he got caught with OW. Anything is possible, OK.
BB07 Posted November 15, 2010 Posted November 15, 2010 mental/physical abuse are in different categories of betrayal. cheating IS the ultimate betrayal of the heart. uh, no....not really. yes, we are, since most of us would agree that mental and physical abuse are worse, but again, in different categories. yes, it does....read above. I blame the abuser for their abuse, and I blame the cheater for their cheating. Hell- O......never thought I'd see the day when I agree with Dex........but the way you worded the above, I do.
Mimolicious Posted November 15, 2010 Posted November 15, 2010 People who shout that are still shouting about their own pain and/or sheltered from reality. Watching your 17 year old daughter or sister die as her kidneys shut down is pretty horrible, for instance. I think you guys are going to the extreme and losing focus. For the threads sake, let's say that in ROMATIC RELATIONSHIPS, yes, cheating is the worse that can happen. PERIOD. Happy? I think everyone can agree that a 17yr old kidney's shutting down IT IS far and beyond more important than just about ANYTHING else in life.
BB07 Posted November 15, 2010 Posted November 15, 2010 OK but you didn't cheat, and you were seriously abused. Even if calling cheating the worst thing ever is hyperbpole, I don't think people who have cheated or have been affair partners, and have NOT been abused the way you were, have any business trying to justify what they did by saying "Oh my there are much worse things than cheating." You missed the point in Fields post....you missed a lot of things in that post. Ever had to live like Fields described? Didn't think so.
wicar1 Posted November 15, 2010 Posted November 15, 2010 cheating is definitely not the "worst" things someone can do to you, but it is the worst form of "betrayal" in my mind. Well said !!
NoLongerSad Posted November 15, 2010 Posted November 15, 2010 You missed the point in Fields post....you missed a lot of things in that post. Ever had to live like Fields described? Didn't think so. No I didn't miss FOG's point at all. She was horribly abused. She didn't cheat. Therefore being horribly abused is not an excuse for cheating. Nor does the fact that horrible abuse may be worse than being cheated on, justify cheating. However if someone has been horribly abused by their spouse I wouldn't hold it against them if they cheated on their spouse. Except FOG didn't do that, so it's not an issue. And frankly I didn't see anyone in this thread saying that the reason they cheated, if they cheated, was because they were horribly abused. I did see a few people try to "justify" cheating by saying it's not as bad as some other things that could happen in a marriage.
YellowShark Posted November 15, 2010 Posted November 15, 2010 (edited) Second, Yellowshark, I respect you and your opinions, enjoy reading your posts, and always agree with you --- until now.* Well that makes my day. What a kind thing to say, thanks. There is no greater betrayal than wondering if today is the day your beloved, the man who pledged to love and cherish you forever, the man you share children with, is going to torture you, mutilate you, and snuff your life out like it was nothing. THAT IS THE ULTIMATE BETRAYAL, and to say cheating is worse is, in the words of JamieA, just f***ed up. I don't see physical or mental abuse as a form of betrayal because the abuse is not covert between the two parties. The abuser may deny he/she abuses, but both parties involved know the abuse is occurring. On the other hand 9 times out of 10 cheating is covert. So I see it as betrayal. In other words, the cheater has completely broken previously decided upon rules between both parties, and is doing so covertly. Therefore both parties involved don't know it's occurring, only one does - the cheater. At least that is how I see betrayal, but then again I grew up near power lines! p.s. You story is awful, so sorry to hear that. I hope that your xH is either safely away in jail, or being hollowed out and used repeatedly as a prophylactic in hell. However if someone has been horribly abused by their spouse I wouldn't hold it against them if they cheated on their spouse. I can totally understand running away from an abuser into the arms of another. That can be almost expected to happen eventually. But I agree, I never though that was "in debate" in this thread. Edited November 15, 2010 by YellowShark
Author Dexter Morgan Posted November 15, 2010 Author Posted November 15, 2010 I still think physical abuse is the worse betrayal. You can't trust your spouse not to kill you or your children? That's pretty fundamental. well its definitely a matter of opinion, but I don't see abuse as betrayal, i see it as abuse and a disgusting act committed towards someone else. but really, does it matter what we call it? I think abuse, whether physical or mental is one of the worst things someone can do to you. there will always be something worse than what is being discussed. getting your leg slowly sawed off, which goes beyond physical abuse, is worse.....and having someone murder your children is worse than that in my opinion. But we are talking about cheating and it IS a painful and despicable form of betrayal, abuse, whatever you want to call it. may not be the worst, but it ranks up there. anyone who tries to say, "oh come on, its not worse than [insert bad behavior of choice]!" is more than likely guilty of something. we can all find "worse" things than what is being discussed.
desertIslandCactus Posted November 15, 2010 Posted November 15, 2010 The thread was to address the cheater, the act of cheating and it's effects. With all the comparisons brought into it .. I'm suprised murder hasn't been offered up yet.
Author Dexter Morgan Posted November 15, 2010 Author Posted November 15, 2010 The thread was to address the cheater, the act of cheating and it's effects. With all the comparisons brought into it .. I'm suprised murder hasn't been offered up yet. thats because cheaters don't want to believe that their despicable actions rank right up there with the worst of behaviors. "but...but...stabbing someone with a knife is worse!!!" gee....no s##t
jthorne Posted November 15, 2010 Posted November 15, 2010 thats because cheaters don't want to believe that their despicable actions rank right up there with the worst of behaviors. "but...but...stabbing someone with a knife is worse!!!" gee....no s##tThe crux of this thread, no?
Fieldsofgold Posted November 15, 2010 Posted November 15, 2010 Well that makes my day. What a kind thing to say, thanks. I don't see physical or mental abuse as a form of betrayal because the abuse is not covert between the two parties. The abuser may deny he/she abuses, but both parties involved know the abuse is occurring. On the other hand 9 times out of 10 cheating is covert. So I see it as betrayal. In other words, the cheater has completely broken previously decided upon rules between both parties, and is doing so covertly. Therefore both parties involved don't know it's occurring, only one does - the cheater. At least that is how I see betrayal, but then again I grew up near power lines! p.s. You story is awful, so sorry to hear that. I hope that your xH is either safely away in jail, or being hollowed out and used repeatedly as a prophylactic in hell. I can totally understand running away from an abuser into the arms of another. That can be almost expected to happen eventually. But I agree, I never though that was "in debate" in this thread. OK, I can totally see what you saying about betrayal. I'm thinking in terms of betrayal of trust, as in, I should be able to trust you not to kill me. You are talking about betrayal as in, the secrecy. That clears up a lot of confusion in my mind. (while I didn't grow up near power lines, I did get hit in the head too many times. )
Fieldsofgold Posted November 15, 2010 Posted November 15, 2010 OK but you didn't cheat, and you were seriously abused. Even if calling cheating the worst thing ever is hyperbpole, I don't think people who have cheated or have been affair partners, and have NOT been abused the way you were, have any business trying to justify what they did by saying "Oh my there are much worse things than cheating." I totally agree with you!
Fieldsofgold Posted November 15, 2010 Posted November 15, 2010 Hone, a man that cheats and plays you like a basketball a lot of times goes hand in hand with the same dude that beats the ish out of you and gives you smokey eyes for a week. Don't say that is not the worst thing. Once a man (sorry if this is gender biased) gets caught, he can get raged and beat the lights out of you. Been there. I have a friend who's H ONLY started to physically abuse her after he started having an A. He was so bothered that she "stood in the way" of him shacking some OW, that he started to hate her to the point of beating her. She had no idea where this rage was coming from till he got caught with OW. Anything is possible, OK. Now this IS the truth. And was probably a substantial part of where my abuse came from.
JustJoe Posted November 15, 2010 Posted November 15, 2010 (Dex), the preconception I was refering to is that you seem to believe that all marriages are "of the heart", when many (like my GF'S) were not. BTW I used this woman's situation , NOT to justify cheating, but to show that there are circumstances, in some marriages, that complicate the issue. (FOG,) you have my deepest respect for your resiliency and courage. (NID) I have talked to this woman several times since I left the service and she IS attending counseling for her personal issues. (DIC) AS an officer , there was only so much that I could do , legally, to assist her and to try to get her H into anger management counseling. I can't ORDER him to attend. The religious aspect, I will leave to those who practice it.
Author Dexter Morgan Posted November 15, 2010 Author Posted November 15, 2010 The crux of this thread, no? yup, but by saying there are worse things than cheating just proves my point as to why they will get all pissy when someone calls them on the real life pain they are causing someone else. if they want to bring up unrelated situations to say, "see this is worse" then why would they get pissy about criticism in the midst of their despicable actions? one answer.....hypocrites.
Author Dexter Morgan Posted November 15, 2010 Author Posted November 15, 2010 (Dex), the preconception I was refering to is that you seem to believe that all marriages are "of the heart", when many (like my GF'S) were not. so what? it still doesn't excuse cheating....get out of the relationship. and if abuse, mainly physical, was in the equation, then what the hell are they thinking? that if the abuser found out they are going to cower like a puppy? or would it be more likely that they just put their lives in danger? BTW I used this woman's situation , NOT to justify cheating, but to show that there are circumstances, in some marriages, that complicate the issue. ah, I remember now...this was basically your excuse for being with someone elses wife.
Fieldsofgold Posted November 15, 2010 Posted November 15, 2010 well its definitely a matter of opinion, but I don't see abuse as betrayal, i see it as abuse and a disgusting act committed towards someone else. but really, does it matter what we call it? I think abuse, whether physical or mental is one of the worst things someone can do to you. there will always be something worse than what is being discussed. getting your leg slowly sawed off, which goes beyond physical abuse, is worse.....and having someone murder your children is worse than that in my opinion. But we are talking about cheating and it IS a painful and despicable form of betrayal, abuse, whatever you want to call it. may not be the worst, but it ranks up there. anyone who tries to say, "oh come on, its not worse than [insert bad behavior of choice]!" is more than likely guilty of something. we can all find "worse" things than what is being discussed. Absolutely agree with you. And TBH, the gaslighting was a horrible mental abuse - as most of us know. That's why I say affairs are so damaging, whether you ever catch them or not. It can make you crazy trying to figure out what's wrong with YOU that is making him act distant, or cold, or whatever. And he won't tell you anything; you can't "fix" it. Crazy-making! And I really think, like Mimo said, there is a definite link between the cheating and the physical abuse. Which, back to the original post, is why it is so amazing that OM/OW and WS's get so offended at honestly expressed POV about their affairs. Because they are participating in real-life abuse. I just think some don't realize it.
NoLongerSad Posted November 15, 2010 Posted November 15, 2010 BTW I used this woman's situation , NOT to justify cheating, but to show that there are circumstances, in some marriages, that complicate the issue. Oh OK. So if that woman's situation does not justify cheating, what is the point of bringing it up in a thread which is about the justifications that are used for cheating?
NoLongerSad Posted November 15, 2010 Posted November 15, 2010 so what? it still doesn't excuse cheating....get out of the relationship. and if abuse, mainly physical, was in the equation, then what the hell are they thinking? that if the abuser found out they are going to cower like a puppy? or would it be more likely that they just put their lives in danger? ah, I remember now...this was basically your excuse for being with someone elses wife. OK so JJ was with someone else's wife, that doesn't mean he doesn't have a valid point. On the other hand unless JJ is saying he was an a marital abuse victim himself I'm not sure where he was trying to go with this line of thought.
Fieldsofgold Posted November 15, 2010 Posted November 15, 2010 (Dex), the preconception I was refering to is that you seem to believe that all marriages are "of the heart", when many (like my GF'S) were not. BTW I used this woman's situation , NOT to justify cheating, but to show that there are circumstances, in some marriages, that complicate the issue. (FOG,) you have my deepest respect for your resiliency and courage. (NID) I have talked to this woman several times since I left the service and she IS attending counseling for her personal issues. (DIC) AS an officer , there was only so much that I could do , legally, to assist her and to try to get her H into anger management counseling. I can't ORDER him to attend. The religious aspect, I will leave to those who practice it. Thanks, Joe. And I respect you for your service to our country, and for your willingness to be placed in harm's way to defend and protect us.
NoLongerSad Posted November 15, 2010 Posted November 15, 2010 Thanks, Joe. And I respect you for your service to our country, and for your willingness to be placed in harm's way to defend and protect us. With all the service personnel who go to the sandbox and get cheated on if this guy is in the service himself you would think he would have known better, right?
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