let me play a violin for the cheater

[BB07]

So if we are going to move the goalposts and talk about abusive relationships then abused spouses need to deal with the abuse first, then get into another relationship second. Not get into a secret relationship first to escape the abuse at home.

 

Abuse is absolutely wrong, cheating is a form of abuse and also wrong. 1+1 doesn't equal potato.

 

Your post above is correct, but I think this is more about understanding WHY someone who is being abused would cheat and yes I absolutely have compassion and understanding for someone in this position.

 

I recall a thread that I read in the abuse section several months ago. A lady posted about the terrible abuse she was undergoing and yes she also posted that she had cheated. She only had a few respondents on her thread and yep.....not one compassionate one and the only responses were nasty ones pointing out her cheating.

 

That thread disgusted me and I felt so bad for the poor woman......of course she left, never to be heard from again. The abuse she was enduring was the primary problem not the cheating and she was treated like a POS and offered nothing but criticism. Sad.....

[BB07]

I really do understand what you and Joe have said. I really do. Abuse is one of the areas I have studied extensively(still studying)..as well as lived. Yes, her husband was(maybe still is) and ass and deserves to have his balls handed to him on a platter...........but for me the idea of thinking your way through an affair and not through leaving is an issue. I respect your opinion and I know you are sincere in your posts:) We just aren't going to see this one thing the same way.

 

Thanks Bent...... and I respect your opinion and viewpoint and I do get exactly where you are coming from.

We just disagree, well maybe disagree is too strong of a word, but we are good!

[bentnotbroken]

Thanks Bent...... and I respect your opinion and viewpoint and I do get exactly where you are coming from.

We just disagree, well maybe disagree is too strong of a word, but we are good!

 

 

Always.

[Spiritgirl]

WTF (Why the F**k) do some people think that cheating is the ultimate betrayal when there is physical/mental abuse? Are people really that whacked? I don't get it. Some of you think that is worse than being beat and abused? Really?

 

Are you people for real? Do you hear/see what you are typing out here and it really makes sense for you?

 

Those who have never been in an abusive situation: It changes a person and makes them in a dark hollow hole where they feel like they can never escape. They are cast in a corner and stuck there to rot and wither up and die!......That's how they feel!

 

Any sign of hope or survival that comes there way....they will jump at it and take it for an escape. No one can know how that feels unless they have been there.

 

If that ends up to the fact the they "cheated" on their abuser, how can one blame them for taking that way out?

 

I don't get it....I really don't

 

 

I can't agree with you more Jamie. I have seen the destruction of physical/emotional abuse. The person is so beaten down she CANT get out without help and support. and no, I don't see her cheating, in this situation, as betrayal. It is survival! It may be too hard to get this concept if you havent been there or seen it repeatedly first hand. And Im talking about serious ongoing abuse where the woman has lost all sense of self. Which is what always happens in that kind of relationship.

[Fieldsofgold]

[b]Cheating on your spouse is literally throwing them under a bus. There is no worse form of betrayal [/b]!than throwing your emotional and financial partner under a bus... and frankly it is a hostile act against your spouse.

 

Now if we want to [u]move the goalposts[/u] around and say that they cheated because they were in an [b]abusive[/b] relationship, then it is still wrong to cheat. The abused person is now in a situation where they are abused at home, and living a double life outside the home. Which really really complicates life for them, and doesn't deal with the abuse at home.

 

So if we are going to move the goalposts and talk about abusive relationships then abused spouses need to deal with the abuse first, then get into another relationship second. Not get into a secret relationship first to escape the abuse at home.

 

Abuse is absolutely wrong, cheating is a form of abuse and also wrong. 1+1 doesn't equal potato.

 

OK, I HAVE TO respond to this. First let me say that I have not been following this thread, so I don't know all that led to this topic. Second, Yellowshark, I respect you and your opinions, enjoy reading your posts, and always agree with you --- until now.*

 

That said, having lived through both serial cheating, and physical/psychological abuse - I'd take cheating over the other abuse any day. There is no greater betrayal than wondering if today is the day your beloved, the man who pledged to love and cherish you forever, the man you share children with, is going to torture you, mutilate you, and snuff your life out like it was nothing. THAT IS THE ULTIMATE BETRAYAL, and to say cheating is worse is, in the words of JamieA, just f***ed up. Live it for a year or two, heal the broken bones without medical attention, fear for the lives of your children and loved ones if he thinks you've told anyone, keep a loaded gun wih you 24/7 for years, because he's promised to step out from*behind a building or a car, and kill you, he's threatened to mutilate and torture *and kill you and your family if you tell anyone, he's held a loaded revolver with the hammer cocked to your infant child's head - live all that, and then come*back and we'll talk about the ultimate betrayal.*

 

Let me tell you, for years, I slept (If/when I slept) sitting up in a corner, behind a pile of boxes, fully clothed to shoes, with a loaded gun in my lap, in a room with two exits. I kept stuff stacked all over my house (sort of like the hoarders you see on tv shows), so that my xH could not easily sneak up on me. (he had a nasty habit of breaking in my house to beat me.) A little bit like a soldier in enemy territory 24/7, except there's no going home - ever. At the grocery store, church, school, everywhere I went, I was looking over my shoulder, with a gun in my purse, because he had promised what he would do, and he didn't fear G-d or the law. While I have healed for the most part, and live like a "normal" person, it is only because G-d delivered me from a spirit of fear, and gave me power, love and a sound mind. (Bible, II Timothy 1:7)

 

Even so, typing this today, nearly 40 years later, evokes surprising emotions.

 

I can't condone carrying on an affair all the while living with abuse. But if the abuse is severe enough - I'm talking really bad, life-threatening, soul-destroying abuse *- I really would not be surprised or blame someone under those conditions for what they might do. That kind of long-term abuse takes you out of your right mind. It's like soldiers who return from POW camps, who are "shell-shocked." You don't really hold them responsible, because of what they went through. Well I'm here to tell you, people who have been severely abused, are no different - except that the government doesn't have an agency to help them. They don't get disability for it. They often don't get community support.*

***

No I don't condone affairs, no I never had one, but when someonenhas been through severe abuse, I don't blame them for nearly anything they do.

 

If someone had come along and rescued me, I very well might have slept with them, IDK. After all, I am a mere mortal. Thankfully that is why we have "forgiveness."*

 

I do believe that cheating IS abuse - I was cheated on repeatedly - but I would never say it is the ultimate betrayal. Just MHO.

 

(Sorry for the long and rambling post)*

[BB07]

Fields........your post made me cry.

 

What you have lived through and survived is truly amazing and you seem like such a wonderful kind beautiful inside and out woman. I commend you for surviving such cruelty. What a beautiful and amazing spirit you have!

 

As for your post......I think you have illustrated very well the mindset of an abused woman.....thumbs up!

[desertIslandCactus]

Cheating on your spouse is literally throwing them under a bus. There is no worse form of betrayal than throwing your emotional and financial partner under a bus... and frankly it is a hostile act against your spouse.

 

Now if we want to move the goalposts around and say that they cheated because they were in an abusive relationship, then it is still wrong to cheat. The abused person is now in a situation where they are abused at home, and living a double life outside the home. Which really really complicates life for them, and doesn't deal with the abuse at home.

 

So if we are going to move the goalposts and talk about abusive relationships then abused spouses need to deal with the abuse first, then get into another relationship second. Not get into a secret relationship first to escape the abuse at home.

 

Abuse is absolutely wrong, cheating is a form of abuse and also wrong. 1+1 doesn't equal potato.

 

Another one of those instances when two wrongs do not make a 'right'. Cheating and abuse are each separate in themselves.

[NoIDidn't]

Frankly........I'm glad the woman got out of her abusive situation and I don't care how she did it, the fact remains she got OUT and that is the most important thing.

 

Well, I wholeheartedly disagree with this stance. It does matter how she got out. It doesn't appear that she learned anything about staying out of such situations in the future. All she did was go with the next person that validated her.

 

I've seen these situations enough to recognize what happens next. The abused comes out of these situations so distrustful and hurt, even if the new lover isn't an abuser - their minds don't know that.

 

It would have been better for her to seek therapy and divorce clean than to start an affair. Affairs are escapism - even if they result in a new relationship. They are escapism. She still needs to deal with why she even allowed herself to stay married to an abuser for so long.

 

Please note Joe, that I'm more concerned about what she learned from the situation than from just throwing her in the category of "cheater". I get that she was abused by her previous H, but she does herself and her new spouse a disservice by not confronting the issue that lead her to that point. And she obviously has issues if she can claim that she was afraid for her life if she told the police but not if she cheated. That and the religion thing. Her religion also condemns adultery. She's not getting off the hook that easily. She has some internal work to do.

[NoIDidn't]

NID, if a dog-owner beats and abuses his dog, and if another person comes and offers love and rewards, which person will the dog go to? This was just an illustration showing that ALL BS'S aren't victims, or guiltless.

 

This analogy comes up rather frequently with those that think it actually applies to people. Don't OPs frequently state that the BS doesn't "own" their spouse? Then why equate that to something that IS owned? A dog was purchased and IS owned by its owners.

 

And, a dog will frequently return to abusive owners regardless of the kindness shown by a stranger. The facts don't support this analogy.

 

My response to your post had nothing to do with her previous H, but everything to do with her thought processes. I can understand being so beat down that the smallest kindness seems like the world to you. But so do other people that would abuse you next. Because she didn't do honest emotional and psychological work to get out of her situation, she's still not likely to get what she "deserved".

[BB07]

Well, I wholeheartedly disagree with this stance. It does matter how she got out. It doesn't appear that she learned anything about staying out of such situations in the future. All she did was go with the next person that validated her.

 

I've seen these situations enough to recognize what happens next. The abused comes out of these situations so distrustful and hurt, even if the new lover isn't an abuser - their minds don't know that.

 

It would have been better for her to seek therapy and divorce clean than to start an affair. Affairs are escapism - even if they result in a new relationship. They are escapism. She still needs to deal with why she even allowed herself to stay married to an abuser for so long.

 

Please note Joe, that I'm more concerned about what she learned from the situation than from just throwing her in the category of "cheater". I get that she was abused by her previous H, but she does herself and her new spouse a disservice by not confronting the issue that lead her to that point. And she obviously has issues if she can claim that she was afraid for her life if she told the police but not if she cheated. That and the religion thing. Her religion also condemns adultery. She's not getting off the hook that easily. She has some internal work to do.

 

I respect your opinion and you made some good points.

I agree that she has some issues that need to be addressed and hopefully she has .......but I do believe that love and hope and forgiveness itself can be healing and who are we to judge that it hasn't taken place?

 

 

JustJoe........can you tell us how long this woman has been out of the abusive relationship and how long have her and the new man been married?

[NoIDidn't]

I respect your opinion and you made some good points.

I agree that she has some issues that need to be addressed and hopefully she has .......but I do believe that love and hope and forgiveness itself can be healing and who are we to judge that it hasn't taken place?

 

 

JustJoe........can you tell us how long this woman has been out of the abusive relationship and how long have her and the new man been married?

 

I agree that love, hope, and forgiveness can be healing, but I fail to see how I have judged her in any way. Joe gave an unflattering account of what happened and I called a spade a spade. She ran from the arms of her abuser to another man. Its great that she got out, but that's not the end.

 

And the length of that relationship really won't prove what has or hasn't been learned as plenty of people are miserable in long-term relationships.

 

I can only hope that she has done the emotional/psychological work to stay out of abusive situations. Otherwise, its wash, rinse, repeat.

[confusedinkansas]

WTF (Why the F**k) do some people think that cheating is the ultimate betrayal when there is physical/mental abuse? Are people really that whacked? I don't get it. Some of you think that is worse than being beat and abused? Really?

 

Are you people for real? Do you hear/see what you are typing out here and it really makes sense for you?

 

This is something I've wondered many times since coming to this website.

BS's here think that adultry is the WORST thing in the world that can happen to a human. I will always disagree with that. Have personally seen MUCH worse.

There are MANY MANY things in this world that are far worse than someone cheating.

 

Okay, well if it was that bad then the unhappy spouse should have been aware enough to think about what would make them happy. What could cheating possibly add to a marriage that is already in trouble or unhappy?

For ME (since I can't speak for everyone) Cheating added.....SANITY!

 

 

TheMENemy: The thief steals because he has no money. Wow you really don't have a lot of insight into human nature, do you? What you just said, above, is just some political propaganda that someone fed you.

Oh Dear....Enlighten me then......WHY does a thief steal? Why does a drug or alcohol abuser do what they do?

[U2RockZz]

WTF (Why the F**k) do some people think that cheating is the ultimate betrayal when there is physical/mental abuse? Are people really that whacked? I don't get it. Some of you think that is worse than being beat and abused? Really?

 

Are you people for real? Do you hear/see what you are typing out here and it really makes sense for you?

 

Those who have never been in an abusive situation: It changes a person and makes them in a dark hollow hole where they feel like they can never escape. They are cast in a corner and stuck there to rot and wither up and die!......That's how they feel!

 

Any sign of hope or survival that comes there way....they will jump at it and take it for an escape. No one can know how that feels unless they have been there.

 

If that ends up to the fact the they "cheated" on their abuser, how can one blame them for taking that way out?

 

I don't get it....I really don't

 

you never will, i think you have a law in place for DV....but for adultery....it's a licensed crime...."mama plays papa pays"....give the men reasonable custody(in case of kids) and money...let's see how many men still wanted to be married , see writing s)(* is so easy.

[Fieldsofgold]

you never will, i think you have a law in place for DV....but for adultery....it's a licensed crime....[b-]"mama plays papa pays"[/b]....give the men reasonable custody(in case of kids) and money...let's see how many men still wanted to be married , see writing s)(* is so easy.

 

The bolded - Only if he's a good, hardworking, honest guy. If he's a worthless azzclown who will go to any lengths to avoid paying child support, and mama doesn't have a lot of money to lawyer up, mama will raise his kids without being able to get a dime.

 

And yes there are laws against DV, but not that easy to enforce. And those promises that he'll come back later and kill you and your whole family, goes a long way.

[NoLongerSad]

There are MANY MANY things in this world that are far worse than someone cheating.

 

Yes sure but this is an "infidelity" message board.

 

If you want to discuss domestic violence or something else, I am sure there are other discussion boards for those subjects.

[Dexter Morgan]

WTF (Why the F**k) do some people think that cheating is the ultimate betrayal when there is physical/mental abuse?

 

mental/physical abuse are in different categories of betrayal. cheating IS the ultimate betrayal of the heart.

 

 

Are people really that whacked? I don't get it. Some of you think that is worse than being beat and abused? Really?

 

uh, no....not really.

 

 

Are you people for real?

 

yes, we are, since most of us would agree that mental and physical abuse are worse, but again, in different categories.

 

 

Do you hear/see what you are typing out here and it really makes sense for you?

 

yes, it does....read above.

 

 

If that ends up to the fact the they "cheated" on their abuser, how can one blame them for taking that way out?

 

I blame the abuser for their abuse, and I blame the cheater for their cheating.

[Mimolicious]

WTF (Why the F**k) do some people think that cheating is the ultimate betrayal when there is physical/mental abuse? Are people really that whacked? I don't get it. Some of you think that is worse than being beat and abused? Really?

 

Are you people for real? Do you hear/see what you are typing out here and it really makes sense for you?

 

Those who have never been in an abusive situation: It changes a person and makes them in a dark hollow hole where they feel like they can never escape. They are cast in a corner and stuck there to rot and wither up and die!......That's how they feel!

 

Any sign of hope or survival that comes there way....they will jump at it and take it for an escape. No one can know how that feels unless they have been there.

 

If that ends up to the fact the they "cheated" on their abuser, how can one blame them for taking that way out?

 

I don't get it....I really don't

 

I get what you are saying, I really do. Now I have another "WTF" moment for you. Why would someone in such an "abusive" circle have the time to entertain matters of the heart? There are a million answers to that but most the time people don't have the strength, determination, self-esteem, etc to get out of their bad situations the best possible way. What do they do? They go from bad to worse. Not all exactly get the knight in shining armor and get scooped up in the white horse. They actually end up in darker, colder corners just with a little less space to breath, since now there is a party of 3 (or 4).

 

You are basically saying that affairs in instances are the way out of abusive relationships? Interesting! So it is ok for damaged people to just roll the snow ball through life? I mean, unless I am cheating with a shrink, I dont see how can this be the end-all solution. Abused people need help, all sorts of help.

 

Yes, someone may give you shelter, food, love, etc... that doesn't mean that you are a renewed person.

 

Crazy.

[confusedinkansas]

Yes sure but this is an "infidelity" message board.

 

If you want to discuss domestic violence or something else, I am sure there are other discussion boards for those subjects.

 

Yes I realize that it's an infidelity message board.

My comments are based on many here saying that infidelity is the worst thing EVER to happen to someone. I'm just saying, it isn't.

[112233]

There are MANY MANY things in this world that are far worse than someone cheating.

 

People who shout that are still shouting about their own pain and/or sheltered from reality. Watching your 17 year old daughter or sister die as her kidneys shut down is pretty horrible, for instance.

[Dexter Morgan]

Some people may get offended because they have a conscience that bothers them, but they don't want to face it or be confronted with the guilt of their actions.

 

I think there are some people who have an inaccurate sense of entitlement; they feel they deserve whatever they want, and don't deserve whatever they don't want.

 

And then there is probably the occasional AP who doesn't want to be bested in a debate, and complains to have the BS's posts removed, or neutralized by the delay of being moderated. Just guessin'

 

I'd say all above is highly accurate.

[Dexter Morgan]

You and I sometimes disagree, Dex, but I know that you have several valid points , but you have a preconception about marriage that isn't necessarily true in every case.

 

and what preconception would that be?

[NoLongerSad]

Yes I realize that it's an infidelity message board.

My comments are based on many here saying that infidelity is the worst thing EVER to happen to someone. I'm just saying, it isn't.

 

 

Do you know what "context" is?

 

This is a site to discuss relationships. In terms of relationships, what's worse than being cheated on?

[Dexter Morgan]

Do you know what "context" is?

 

This is a site to discuss relationships. In terms of relationships, what's worse than being cheated on?

 

cheating is definitely not the "worst" things someone can do to you, but it is the worst form of "betrayal" in my mind.

[Fieldsofgold]

 

. . . I blame the abuser for their abuse, and I blame the cheater for their cheating.

 

I've already said plenty, probably too much, about abuse.

 

Thinking back on that time in my life, I will have to say that I lived under such a cloud of terror, I can't imagine how I would have had the emotional presence, or nerve to carry on an affair. My whole focus was survival for myself and our child. It is hard to imagine jeapordizing that with an affair. The only kind of man I wanted was one with a gun and a badge, who was on MY side!

 

But still will say that when one has been severely abused their mind and boundaries are so damaged, I guess anything's possible.

 

I also will say that the sitch Joe related is the only such one I've heard of. Most affairs are NOT the result of a damaged person trying to escape severe abuse.

 

Most affairs are an act of selfishness, and they typically result in emotional abuse, whether they are ever discovered or not.

[Mimolicious]

 

OK, I HAVE TO respond to this. First let me say that I have not been following this thread, so I don't know all that led to this topic. Second, Yellowshark, I respect you and your opinions, enjoy reading your posts, and always agree with you --- until now.*

 

That said, having lived through both serial cheating, and physical/psychological abuse - I'd take cheating over the other abuse any day. There is no greater betrayal than wondering if today is the day your beloved, the man who pledged to love and cherish you forever, the man you share children with, is going to torture you, mutilate you, and snuff your life out like it was nothing. THAT IS THE ULTIMATE BETRAYAL, and to say cheating is worse is, in the words of JamieA, just f***ed up. Live it for a year or two, heal the broken bones without medical attention, fear for the lives of your children and loved ones if he thinks you've told anyone, keep a loaded gun wih you 24/7 for years, because he's promised to step out from*behind a building or a car, and kill you, he's threatened to mutilate and torture *and kill you and your family if you tell anyone, he's held a loaded revolver with the hammer cocked to your infant child's head - live all that, and then come*back and we'll talk about the ultimate betrayal.*

 

Let me tell you, for years, I slept (If/when I slept) sitting up in a corner, behind a pile of boxes, fully clothed to shoes, with a loaded gun in my lap, in a room with two exits. I kept stuff stacked all over my house (sort of like the hoarders you see on tv shows), so that my xH could not easily sneak up on me. (he had a nasty habit of breaking in my house to beat me.) A little bit like a soldier in enemy territory 24/7, except there's no going home - ever. At the grocery store, church, school, everywhere I went, I was looking over my shoulder, with a gun in my purse, because he had promised what he would do, and he didn't fear G-d or the law. While I have healed for the most part, and live like a "normal" person, it is only because G-d delivered me from a spirit of fear, and gave me power, love and a sound mind. (Bible, II Timothy 1:7)

 

Even so, typing this today, nearly 40 years later, evokes surprising emotions.

 

I can't condone carrying on an affair all the while living with abuse. But if the abuse is severe enough - I'm talking really bad, life-threatening, soul-destroying abuse *- I really would not be surprised or blame someone under those conditions for what they might do. That kind of long-term abuse takes you out of your right mind. It's like soldiers who return from POW camps, who are "shell-shocked." You don't really hold them responsible, because of what they went through. Well I'm here to tell you, people who have been severely abused, are no different - except that the government doesn't have an agency to help them. They don't get disability for it. They often don't get community support.*

***

No I don't condone affairs, no I never had one, but when someonenhas been through severe abuse, I don't blame them for nearly anything they do.

 

If someone had come along and rescued me, I very well might have slept with them, IDK. After all, I am a mere mortal. Thankfully that is why we have "forgiveness."*

 

I do believe that cheating IS abuse - I was cheated on repeatedly - but I would never say it is the ultimate betrayal. Just MHO.

 

(Sorry for the long and rambling post)*

 

 

Whoa FOG. God bless your heart bebe. You are one true survivor. God delivers babygirl!

 

I still don't see how sleeping with someone fixes anything?! It's a temporary cure to a permanent issue. Sends you to a cloud till your lights are punched out again. Why not find a way to get YOURSELF out. Unfortunate that people may find comfort and thrills in another person, yet they lack the courage and resources to find help within organizations.