let me play a violin for the cheater

[donnamaybe]

But "reason" implies that its a good excuse, as if it HAD to be done.

ExACTly.

[YellowShark]

Yep, that's pretty disgusting that your EX would be with someone who had a pregnant wife. I guess it kind of blows that whole "my MM doesn't have sex with his W" theory out of the water!

 

Not only was she a pregnant wife, they spent the past 4 years trying to get pregnant with much difficulty and many visits to many doctors. And when it finally did "take," MM decided to betray me - (and his pregnant wife) - with my EX. How sick is that?

 

And sometimes, there is no "WHY" that will ever be enough of an explanation. Sometimes it is just too horrific.

 

And that is what I felt. The act was so horrific and so socially corrupt that I didn't need an explanation why. I had all the information I needed to walk away from 7 years together. Hell, I could barely look her in the eyes I was so disgusted, and to top it all off my EX was hosting the baby shower. Crazy.

[YellowShark]

But remember - they're not "excuses." They're "reasons."

 

"Reasons," "excuses..." Semantic games IMHO.

 

Couples are 50% responsible for what happens in their relationships. A cheater is 100% responsible for their affair.

 

There is nothing on earth that can be a reason or excuse to "fall into someone else's vagina," or "onto his penis."

[JustJoe]

And unless my situation changes, it's my decision to not say anything about what happened after I was initially 'found out'.

But this is what I'm talking about. I am commenting on someone elses thread & MY personal infidelity is still an issue. It's almost like I'm not permitted an opinion because of my WAY past. It will still be brought up. Still will be beaten down - even though no one knows the whole story before, during or after.

I guess it's just the nature of the beast......so to speak. AKA: LS

I do agree with you and have seen it myself. Because I was the OM, any opinion I might have is suspect by the majority of BS'S. But I don't think this is the nature of LS, but human nature, itself. Birds of a feather...ETC. BS'S tend to take the opinions of other BS'S more than they do the ideas of WS'S or OM/OW'S.

[YellowShark]

...I was the OM, any opinion I might have is suspect by the majority of BS'S. But I don't think this is the nature of LS, but human nature, itself. Birds of a feather...ETC. BS'S tend to take the opinions of other BS'S more than they do the ideas of WS'S or OM/OW'S.

 

Absolutely true. The WS's often look for absolution because they claim "it just happened," or "he/she drove me to do it." While the BS's often are looking for support and sympathy from being thrown under a bus.

 

It's kinda like how a rape victim would not want to hear the opinions of rapists to feel better about what happened to them.

[Snowflower]

Not only was she a pregnant wife, they spent the past 4 years trying to get pregnant with much difficulty and many visits to many doctors. And when it finally did "take," MM decided to betray me - (and his pregnant wife) - with my EX. How sick is that?

 

 

 

And that is what I felt. The act was so horrific and so socially corrupt that I didn't need an explanation why. I had all the information I needed to walk away from 7 years together. Hell, I could barely look her in the eyes I was so disgusted, and to top it all off my EX was hosting the baby shower. Crazy.

 

Does the BW know about your ex and her H?

[JustJoe]

Absolutely true. The WS's often look for absolution because they claim "it just happened," or "he/she drove me to do it." While the BS's often are looking for support and sympathy from being thrown under a bus.

 

It's kinda like how a rape victim would not want to hear the opinions of rapists to feel better about what happened to them.

I agree, but IF the BS doesn't understand the POV of the cheater or OM/OW, then it is likely to happen again, because we both know that it takes two to make a bad marriage as well as a good one. Dexter solves his problems by blanket condemnation of ALL disloyal partners, everywhere, and doesn't consider the other possibilities, that maybe the BS was an abuser, or alcoholic, or refuses sex to the WS, ETC. Frankly there are as many reasons to cheat as there are reasons to marry , in the first place.

[desertIslandCactus]

I do agree with you and have seen it myself. Because I was the OM, any opinion I might have is suspect by the majority of BS'S. But I don't think this is the nature of LS, but human nature, itself. Birds of a feather...ETC. BS'S tend to take the opinions of other BS'S more than they do the ideas of WS'S or OM/OW'S.

 

What on earth is there to say?

 

It was a bad marriage and I loved her deserved her more than her husband .. But I am a man of integrity because I went to him and told him (disclosure) .. And then they divorced.

[desertIslandCactus]

I agree, but IF the BS doesn't understand the POV of the cheater or OM/OW, then it is likely to happen again, because we both know that it takes two to make a bad marriage as well as a good one. Dexter solves his problems by blanket condemnation of ALL disloyal partners, everywhere, and doesn't consider the other possibilities, that maybe the BS was an abuser, or alcoholic, or refuses sex to the WS, ETC. Frankly there are as many reasons to cheat as there are reasons to marry , in the first place.

 

Actually none. A bad marriage that cannot be fixed: Divorce first. Otherwise you only create another marriage based on the adultery.

[Mimolicious]

Dexter, Im really sorry that your wife was a jerk and hurt you. I think what you went through sucks. However, there comes a time to forgive and move on. You seem to go out of your way to chastise and berate any and all OW on this board, even when you dont know the whole story. Does that make you feel better? It seems like you are on some sort of mission to cut down any woman that you can who seemingly has done what your wife did to you. That in my opinion is no way to heal. And by the way, once a cheater always a cheater is so not true. My aunt and uncle met during their awful marriages and they have been together 25 years and are still in love.

Good luck to you. I know you will just respond defensively to this post, but hopefully, when the time is right, you will TRULY start to heal.

 

 

Did you just do a little "going out of your way" yourself? How you know so much about Dex and how do you know what exactly your Aunt and Uncle have gone through in 25yrs? Couples dont always ditch their business out, less likely to family members...

 

"Can't help who you fall in love with" its a fallible excuse. For you to "fall in love" with someone, you must go through a series of encounters so how did "it just happened"? Whatever!

 

It baffles me how half the universe behaves in such a way and have little regards for commitment, family, fellow human beings, etc... They throw the word "LOVE" as it supposed to make shyte smell like roses. "LOVE"? I dont hurt the people I "LOVE" to the point of leaving them feeling lifeless. I love my children, I can't hurt them. I love my family, I cant seem to imagine to cause them any pain. I loved my xH, I would have never betrayed our union... He did! cause he found "amazing" in some other tramp that he started benchmarking his marriage against. He is now a very broken (in all different aspects) man.

 

At this point, they should just have a fill in the option form in some of these forums. Every other story sounds cookie-cutter. Some start, take place and end the same way. Very rare that you find the "Happy Ending" which is really just a "New Beginning" with HIGHER possibilities of shattering because it's already chipped, better yet cracked.

 

Sorry, whoever doesn't like what I have to say, they can just ignore my post. It is what it is... you can't walk around life trying to mute what is not music to your ears. Actually, you can! Then there is a name you will go by- "DELUSIONAL".

[BlackLovely]

first of all, the "move on" can be said to everyone on this board and then hence there wouldn't be anyone here.

 

second, the only part of the story I need to know is if the OW/OM knew the person they were bedding down is married.

 

If they were lied to and didn't know the marital status of the person they are with, thats a different matter.

 

and nice try with saying "OW" as if I don't apply the same to OM as well...which I do, many times over.

 

 

 

 

if they continue on a path where they don't care about who they hurt in the process, yes. Too many people here don't give a crap who they hurt and can't seem to take criticism or the cold hard truth about things.

 

 

 

 

yes, it is. even if someone doesn't actually ever physically cheat again, its in their character and the desire to mess around with new people doesn't go away, they just supress their actions. hence...still a cheater

 

 

 

 

 

well if you knew that, then it indicates your real motive for posting it now doesn't it?

People use different ways of healing. I believe that people have to get angry at the pain people cause them, in order to heal. The only way out is through.

I can see both sides of the issue, because I saw my parent's marriage. My mother was incredibly abusive to my father, yet he should have been enough of a man to demand proper treatment, instead of sneaking off like a passive aggressive child.

I would get an orchestra for the BS spouse, but only a viola for a cheater.

 

There are some very valid contributing factors, however, the cheater makes the choice to sleep around. They could also simply divorce their spouse, rather than dragging innocents (BS and children) into the cesspool of betrayal.

[Mimolicious]

Actually none. A bad marriage that cannot be fixed: Divorce first. Otherwise you only create another marriage based on the adultery.

 

 

I agree. Some people just complicate their lives and make matters worse by inserting a third (even a 4th) character into their R. Seems like rather than finding peace, comfort, understanding, etc. "Amazing" becomes diesel fuel but to an already 3 alarm fire. In a lot of instances, what was supposed to be the "quick-fix" becomes the real issue. Watch an episode of "SNAPPED". We also see it all over the news...

 

This is when I start to believe that behind every successful M/W, there is a wonderful W/M and behind an unsuccessful M?W there are 2.

If someone is in such a "BAD PLACE", dont love or care to be with the person they are M to then GTFO!

 

IT IS THAT SIMPLE. Even if there are certain circumstances. Health, money, housing, kids, etc... You can still take care of all of that if you separate your drama from reality and work towards handling your business. I would have appreaciated honesty rather than having my 20's wasted and being lied to. The end result was the SAME.

[Dexter Morgan]

Dexter solves his problems by blanket condemnation of ALL disloyal partners, everywhere, and doesn't consider the other possibilities, that maybe the BS was an abuser, or alcoholic, or refuses sex to the WS, ETC. .

 

the other possibilities are irrelevant, its still not an excuse to cheat. They are reasons to leave, but not excuses to cheat.

[Dexter Morgan]

YS, I completely agree with your post. We all make our own choices. Which is why I hate it when people rationalize or excuse their own bad behaviors and choices. Own up. If you made a bad choice or wrong decision man up and try to make it right. Lord knows, you really can't change what you have already done. But, you can try to make reparations.

Very true! - As long as you're not posting here.

Because there is 0 tolerance & 0 "forgiveness" or trying to see the other side of the coin here. Which is why when I've personally tried to post here on OTHER issues besides the infidelity....I'm still stricken down. The infidelity ALWAYS comes up, like it's the reason for EVERYTHING in my life this many years later. Which isn't true.

 

uh, the difference here is, as opposed to those who have remorse and regret their affair...you neither regretted it or have any remorse, you said so yourself.

[Dexter Morgan]

I can't speak for anyone else here......But I sure don't!! .

 

ya, you just don't regret your affair and wouldn't do anything differently if you had to do it all over again:rolleyes:

[Dexter Morgan]

Dexter:

"yes, it is. even if someone doesn't actually ever physically cheat again, its in their character and the desire to mess around with new people doesn't go away, they just supress their actions. hence...still a cheater"

 

Well its impressive that you can read the minds of EVERY person who has ever cheated.

 

very impressive, isn't it?

 

 

 

People cheat for many different reasons and under many different circumstances. You may want to be a bit more careful with your generalizations. Especially when you dont even know the people you are saying these things about.

 

they are cheaters, thats all I need to know.

[Mimolicious]

the other possibilities are irrelevant, its still not an excuse to cheat. They are reasons to leave, but not excuses to cheat.

 

 

Exactly! As I mentioned above. I love it how a person may not have time or desire to deal with their personal issues, yet have time to entertain matters of the heart and nurture an A. The excuses become reasons though...

[YellowShark]

Does the BW know about your ex and her H?

 

Without the risk of threadjacking I shall quickly answer your question.

 

Yes she knows. I told her in person the very next day after I caught my EX and her husband red-handed in-the-act. I texted her, she came over, I told her what happened. I have not heard a peep from her since that talk in May. I moved out 4 days after D-Day. From what I've been told her husband and my EX have convinced her I made it all up. Like I just got up one night, went nuts, and made up a story. Yup, that's what I did. Silly me. Anyhow, it started as an EA in early 2009, and you know the rest now. Typical gaslighting by my EX and MM on the wife - (who just delivered a baby girl 2 weeks ago.)

 

Anyhow... enough about my story... back to the thread...

 

I agree, but IF the BS doesn't understand the POV of the cheater or OM/OW, then it is likely to happen again, because we both know that it takes two to make a bad marriage as well as a good one.

 

Absolutely agree. I think it is very healthy for the BS to hear the reasons why their WS stepped-out of the marriage. That can be done very effectively in therapy.

 

There are millions of bad marriages out there where people are cheating this very minute. Most WS will say it's because they get something out of the affair they don't have in their marriage. IMHO 1 time out of 10 the BS knows about their partner's infidelity and doesn't care, or tolerates it so that they may "keep a lifestyle they have become accustom to." Another time out of ten they stay for the kid's sake. While 8 times out of 10 the BS has no knowledge of the affair until D-Day. They think everyting is fine, and are simply innocent bystanders in an act perpetrated in secret by the WS.

 

It takes so many levels of willful, conscious choices to cheat, and carry on an affair, that it is impossible that a BS forces or drives a WS to do it. The WS has to commit to having an affair. So I see an affair as a product of the WS's issues, not the actions of the BS. The affair is how the WS choses to deal with their issues in their relationship.

 

So - for me - the WS just needs to take full ownership and say, "I "f"ed up, I didn't cheat on you because we don't have sex as much as I like, I cheated because I don't know how to deal with my own issues... (like not having sex as much as I want.)"

[JustJoe]

Without the risk of threadjacking I shall quickly answer your question.

 

Yes she knows. I told her in person the very next day after I caught my EX and her husband red-handed in-the-act. I texted her, she came over, I told her what happened. I have not heard a peep from her since that talk in May. I moved out 4 days after D-Day. From what I've been told her husband and my EX have convinced her I made it all up. Like I just got up one night, went nuts, and made up a story. Yup, that's what I did. Silly me. Anyhow, it started as an EA in early 2009, and you know the rest now. Typical gaslighting by my EX and MM on the wife - (who just delivered a baby girl 2 weeks ago.)

 

Anyhow... enough about my story... back to the thread...

 

 

 

Absolutely agree. I think it is very healthy for the BS to hear the reasons why their WS stepped-out of the marriage. That can be done very effectively in therapy.

 

There are millions of bad marriages out there where people are cheating this very minute. Most WS will say it's because they get something out of the affair they don't have in their marriage. IMHO 1 time out of 10 the BS knows about their partner's infidelity and doesn't care, or tolerates it so that they may "keep a lifestyle they have become accustom to." Another time out of ten they stay for the kid's sake. While 8 times out of 10 the BS has no knowledge of the affair until D-Day. They think everyting is fine, and are simply innocent bystanders in an act perpetrated in secret by the WS.

 

It takes so many levels of willful, conscious choices to cheat, and carry on an affair, that it is impossible that a BS forces or drives a WS to do it. The WS has to commit to having an affair. So I see an affair as a product of the WS's issues, not the actions of the BS. The affair is how the WS choses to deal with their issues in their relationship.

 

So - for me - the WS just needs to take full ownership and say, "I "f"ed up, I didn't cheat on you because we don't have sex as much as I like, I cheated because I don't know how to deal with my own issues... (like not having sex as much as I want.)"

I disagree with this to a certain extent. My GF didn't intend on cheating , when she met me. There was no pre-meditation. But to continue the affair was dishonest and she knows it, as well as I do. She certainly isn't proud of it, but views it as a bad reaction to a bad marriage. But BS'S aren't always saints or victims, either. You can't expect loyalty from a person that you misuse or neglect.

[confusedinkansas]

ya, you just don't regret your affair and wouldn't do anything differently if you had to do it all over again:rolleyes:

 

Never once did I say - I wouldn't do anything differently. There are many things that involved that affair that I'd do differently......The first one being, not to do it in the first place. (Believe it or not, I've learned a great deal here) To demand from my husband the attention & ANSWERS I deserved.

As for regret - Not really. Because of the way things played out.

 

Remorse - I definitely feel bad that it happened. I wish there could have been a different way to handle things.

 

To you BS's that DID listen every time your spouses talked about any difficulties in the marriage.........& then they slept with someone else dispite it - Well you obviously have a leg to stand on. You obviously have an arguement to the spouse that betrayed you.

 

For those husbands or wives that made a choice to NOT listen when their spouse talked about problems.......Well, YOU don't have any room to talk if things happen TO your marriages. - Whether it be infidelity or divorce.

Edited November 12, 2010 by confusedinkansas

[Dexter Morgan]

For those husbands or wives that made a choice to NOT listen when their spouse talked about problems.......Well, YOU don't have any room to talk if things happen TO your marriages. - Whether it be infidelity or divorce.

 

oh, you mean emotional extortion. "do and behave as I want, or I will #### someone else" ?

 

sorry, if its bad enough to cheat, then there is no reason to continue the marriage. divorce first rather than introducing baggage to a marriage that you cannot get rid of.

[Snowflower]

Without the risk of threadjacking I shall quickly answer your question.

 

Yes she knows. I told her in person the very next day after I caught my EX and her husband red-handed in-the-act. I texted her, she came over, I told her what happened. I have not heard a peep from her since that talk in May. I moved out 4 days after D-Day. From what I've been told her husband and my EX have convinced her I made it all up. Like I just got up one night, went nuts, and made up a story. Yup, that's what I did. Silly me. Anyhow, it started as an EA in early 2009, and you know the rest now. Typical gaslighting by my EX and MM on the wife - (who just delivered a baby girl 2 weeks ago.)

 

Anyhow... enough about my story... back to the thread...

 

You're right it is a threadjack. My apologies to the OP.

 

I was just so disgusted by the story you posted. At least you have planted the seed of doubt in the BW's mind. There is no way she can't at least wonder what is the real reason why you and your xW are no longer together.

 

Sometimes it takes a BS awhile to get their bearings and decide what to do. It isn't always automatic for some...the shock and denial can be strong which is probably the case for this BS. And during what is supposed to be such a joyous time...the birth of her first child. Truly heartbreaking.

 

Back to topic, if an unfaithful partner or OP is genuinely remorseful and has learned from their mistakes, IMO forgiveness might be possible.

 

Unfortunately, many MP/OP appear to be excusing and rationalizing their choices. Nothing is learned and the pain of the BS is all for nothing.

Edited November 12, 2010 by Snowflower

[Snowflower]

But BS'S aren't always saints or victims, either. You can't expect loyalty from a person that you misuse or neglect.

 

I agree, there are some not so nice spouses out there. I've become much more aware of this over the last couple of years. I even wonder in some cases where I've witnessed some ugly marital strife, "which spouse is going to cheat first?"

 

 

For those husbands or wives that made a choice to NOT listen when their spouse talked about problems.......Well, YOU don't have any room to talk if things happen TO your marriages. - Whether it be infidelity or divorce.

 

Okay, well if it was that bad then the unhappy spouse should have been aware enough to think about what would make them happy. What could cheating possibly add to a marriage that is already in trouble or unhappy?

 

 

 

 

 

 

sorry, if its bad enough to cheat, then there is no reason to continue the marriage. divorce first rather than introducing baggage to a marriage that you cannot get rid of.

 

Yes, it greatly complicates the situation. Cheating does nothing but add more problems.

[Fieldsofgold]

What is it about cheaters, or OW/OM that knew ahead of time they were messing around with someone elses spouse, that can basically destroy someone's world, inflict real life pain.....but when someone in a forum like this calls them on their hypocrisy, bulls###, or self-centered character.....then its just an absolute crime.

 

he/she who hurts people in real life look real silly claiming offense when someone puts the truth out there in words.

 

I just wanna know what gets inside their heads....they go out and f##k with someone's life...then come here and get offended when they meet people who aren't sympathetic to their less than sympathetic attitude towards their real life victims.

 

This IS an Opinion and Support forum. People have different opinions about what constitutes support. Participation here IS voluntary. When people post, even if it is offensive to ME, it may still be their idea of helpful support. I try to keep that in mind.

 

Sometimes, it in fact IS helpful, even when it might not be what I want to hear.

 

If I think it is not helpful, I have the right to ignore it.

 

It IS interesting to me when someone takes any disagreeing post as a personal attack. Or thinks every post is about them personally. The poster gets reported. Then said reporter goes on throughout that same post, flaming and attacking everyone else to an amazing magnitude. I always find that interesting.

 

How do they justify that? I don't know - I guess it is the same mentality that allows someone to ruin other people's lives IRL with an affair, and then complain when an anonymous person on a public forum is not complimentary.

 

(Hopefully that poster will not think I am talking about them, and report me - again! LOL!)

 

About some of the other posts here - I agree that we don't choose who we are attracted to. BUT I do believe with all my heart that we can choose to control what we do with that attraction, IF we are sufficiently motivated to do so. I really like what an earlier poster said - if we found out our love interest was a serial killer, serial rapist, child abuser, animal abuser, or some other such perverse thing - we'd probably get over them in a hurry. (too bad we don't see 'married' as one of those "off-limits" things.) And if later on, the WS throws the AP under the bus, the AP will have to control their feelings and move on. Even after a full-blown affair. My point being that the AP's can, and most likely will be, gotten over - sooner or later. Why not do it at the beginning, when it is easier, and save everyone a lot of pain.

 

Why not? Because I believe that ethics are learned. We are not just born ethical or unethical. Some people were fortunate to have had good teaching/role models growing up, and learned good ethics at an early age. Those people were able to avoid some of the pitfalls that others did not. Some people learned ethics after they were older - sometimes from hard personal experience - maybe their own, or from observing someone else. For this reason, I DO NOT believe at all that cheaters are "hopeless." Yes, there may or may not be greater risks, but I totally believe people can have life-changing experiences and come out the other side as totally different people. Or they may go through a slow personal learning and growth process. But I know that people can and do completely change and transform. (If I had believed people could not change, I'd have shot myself years ago.)

 

When an OM/OW comes here in pain, usually my heart goes out to them, especially if they are young and less experienced. Doesn't mean I agree with their choices at all, doesn't mean they were not accountable for what happened to them. Doesn't mean that I don't feel equal or greater compassion for the BS and others hurt by them, just means that I do have compassion for the hurt they are going through, and the place they are in, in their life. I believe we all reap what we sow, and I have compassion for the pain they have and will bring on themselves, or will allow others to inflict on them. And I dearly wish I could do something or say something to help them see their way through it. Even the ones who are so frustrating and offensive (and report me) - if at some point they came here broken-hearted and needed support, I would still have compassion. (No, I'm still not talking about you, so don't report me!)

 

One day years ago, I went to the local neighborhood store and found my good friend and neighbor (the clerk) and her 12 y/o daughter, dead on the floor from point-blank shotgun blasts. The first person there after the crime, and needless to say, it was a terrible experience. Everyone, myself included, was up in arms, wanted justice -- the death penalty -- for the killers. Several days after the teenage boys were arrested, I was required to go to the sheriff to give additional information. While I was there, I saw the boys, and the boys' families. Due to circumstances, I sat across the room from them for a lengthy period of time. No one realized I was associated with the crime. I watched them, listened to them talk. I realized their lives were just as destroyed as my friends'. The boys, the killers, whether they got the death penalty or not - their lives were destroyed almost before they'd even begun to live. I realized that no matter the verdict - no one would "win." I thought of the words of Jesus: "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do."

 

To me, that statement applies to most of us, most of the time. Yes, we "know" at a basic level what we are doing - but usually, there is so much more that we don't realize. We don't see the pain we are creating for ourselves and everyone around us. We don't understand why we should care about other people, even strangers we don't know. We don't see the long-term ramifications of our actions. We don't see the lasting impact of our thoughtless or selfish behavior. We just don't see "the big picture." We don't REALLY "know" what we are doing. And no matter what side we are on, even when we think we have "won," there really are no winners.

 

So while I do sometimes get so very frustrated and aggravated, and sometimes disgusted - I do have compassion and a desire to help, if I can, those who have gotten themselves in a painful place.

[BB07]

A BEAUTIFUL post fieldsofgold!

 

You are a truly beautiful soul.