denise_xo Posted November 8, 2010 Posted November 8, 2010 Unless there is some sort of reasonably obvious professional or business reason for these meetings to occur, then I will apply exactly the same standard to your H that I applied in OP's case: These are dates. A "date" being defined as when a man and a woman meet one on one and engage in a social activity, particularly where consumption of food and alcoholic beverages is involved, particularly where this activity occurs in a pub, restaurant, or other location, place and circumstances which are frequently known to facilitate breaching of legitimate relationship boundaries. Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one.
TheMENemy Posted November 8, 2010 Posted November 8, 2010 How the **** do you know? Are you psychic?? No I don't know, and I'm not psychic, but the OP has declined to actually say what her part of the conversation/argument was, although she did confirm that when this happened previously, it ended up with her bf begging for forgiveness from her. She has also expressed a very clear "take it or leave it" attitude with respect to her ability to maintain pre-existing relationships with other men. IME opposite sex one on one friendships of this kind are not particularly helpful to maintenance of a serious committed relationship with a current SO. They are also completely unnecessary. Any friend of one party should be a friend of the relationship and a friend of both. That's in a serious, exclusive committed relationship of course. I can see why you are sympathetic to the OP because you have analogized the OP with your husband's situation. Your H has convinced you that he has some legitimate reason to be socializing one on one with other females (assuming it's not for obviously legitimate business reasons--business used as a "cover" for socializing doesn't count as "legit"). No heterosexual man wastes his time socializing (unless very rarely) one on one with females unless he has some kind of ulterior motive. Could be sexual, could be emotional, could be something else entirely. What it is NOT, is healthy for the primary relationship. The energy he is investing into these other "friendships" is energy that could be better directed to your marriage.
TheMENemy Posted November 8, 2010 Posted November 8, 2010 Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one. What part do you disagree with? You just said your husband frequently meets one on one with other women for drinks and/or dinner. You don't claim these meetings are related to any legitimate business or professional purpose (such as buying a client lunch on a sales call). How are these meetings not "dates"?
denise_xo Posted November 8, 2010 Posted November 8, 2010 No I don't know, and I'm not psychic, but the OP has declined to actually say what her part of the conversation/argument was, although she did confirm that when this happened previously, it ended up with her bf begging for forgiveness from her. She has also expressed a very clear "take it or leave it" attitude with respect to her ability to maintain pre-existing relationships with other men. IME opposite sex one on one friendships of this kind are not particularly helpful to maintenance of a serious committed relationship with a current SO. They are also completely unnecessary. Any friend of one party should be a friend of the relationship and a friend of both. That's in a serious, exclusive committed relationship of course. I can see why you are sympathetic to the OP because you have analogized the OP with your husband's situation. Your H has convinced you that he has some legitimate reason to be socializing one on one with other females (assuming it's not for obviously legitimate business reasons--business used as a "cover" for socializing doesn't count as "legit"). No heterosexual man wastes his time socializing (unless very rarely) one on one with females unless he has some kind of ulterior motive. Could be sexual, could be emotional, could be something else entirely. What it is NOT, is healthy for the primary relationship. The energy he is investing into these other "friendships" is energy that could be better directed to your marriage. My H hasn't 'convinced' me of anything. We share the same perspectives on these issues and it works for us. I don't have any particular 'sympathy' towards the OP. My responses to her have reflected my opinion on her situation.
Tim The Enchanter Posted November 8, 2010 Posted November 8, 2010 No heterosexual man wastes his time socializing (unless very rarely) one on one with females unless he has some kind of ulterior motive. Could be sexual, could be emotional, could be something else entirely. What it is NOT, is healthy for the primary relationship. The energy he is investing into these other "friendships" is energy that could be better directed to your marriage. I agree. I love how women always seem to think they know how their male "friends" think better than other men. For me, having my girlfriend go out with a straight male friend, one on one, would be a cause of extreme vexation on my part. I'm not saying I would shout and scream the way the OP's boyfriend has, but I would be simmering beneath the surface. I wonder how the OP or any woman would react if a boyfriend told them "Hey, I can't come over on Friday because I'm meeting up with Kelly for dinner. Oh it's ok, we're old friends."
TheMENemy Posted November 8, 2010 Posted November 8, 2010 My H hasn't 'convinced' me of anything. We share the same perspectives on these issues and it works for us. Reading between the lines, does this mean you have your male friends that you spend time with, too? I don't have any particular 'sympathy' towards the OP. My responses to her have reflected my opinion on her situation. Of course you have sympathy towards her, since you analogized your own personal situation to hers, except with your H in the role of the partner maintaining multiple opposite sex friendships. That's "sympathy" or perhaps "empathy." Also I was interested to see that you posted this back in September: I don't think there's anything to be confused about. Just live your life the way it makes you happy. I feel grateful for the days of my life when I have been in a mutually loving relationship, but getting married and having children has never been an objective for me (children are deal breakers). I guess some women get overwhelmingly hit by some kind of biological clock. I'm happy it's passed me by so far. I realize I'm in a minority, but it works for me. Did you get married in the past month or two? If so, congratulations.
denise_xo Posted November 8, 2010 Posted November 8, 2010 Reading between the lines, does this mean you have your male friends that you spend time with, too? Of course you have sympathy towards her, since you analogized your own personal situation to hers, except with your H in the role of the partner maintaining multiple opposite sex friendships. That's "sympathy" or perhaps "empathy." Also I was interested to see that you posted this back in September: Did you get married in the past month or two? If so, congratulations. On the first point: yes of course, it goes both ways. On your second point: you can call it what you want, from my POV I'm expressing my opinion. On your third point: No, I have been married for several years.
TheMENemy Posted November 8, 2010 Posted November 8, 2010 On the first point: yes of course, it goes both ways. Well Denise, it's interesting to me that you chose to first post that your H engaged in opposite sex friendships and you were OK with it, without divulging that you do exactly the same thing. Why not simply have said "both my husband and I engage in one on one opposite sex friendships" if you were trying to make a point that you think they are OK? In any event I didn't get the impression from OP that her bf wishes to maintain opposite sex friendships so there's no mutuality in their relationship. The question remains as to why either you or your H think that such one on one opposite sex friendships are even necessary and how they are helpful to your marriage. You and your H must both have an awful lot of free time I suppose. Personally I prefer to spend my available free time with my spouse, call me crazy if you want. On your second point: you can call it what you want, from my POV I'm expressing my opinion. Yes but now that we know you engage in such friendships too, not just your H, "sympathy" or "empathy" are clearly appropriate words to have used. On your third point: No, I have been married for several years. That's fine, your prior post is worded ambiguously, thanks for clearing things up.
denise_xo Posted November 8, 2010 Posted November 8, 2010 (edited) Well Denise, it's interesting to me that you chose to first post that your H engaged in opposite sex friendships and you were OK with it, without divulging that you do exactly the same thing. Why not simply have said "both my husband and I engage in one on one opposite sex friendships" if you were trying to make a point that you think they are OK? In any event I didn't get the impression from OP that her bf wishes to maintain opposite sex friendships so there's no mutuality in their relationship. The question remains as to why either you or your H think that such one on one opposite sex friendships are even necessary and how they are helpful to your marriage. You and your H must both have an awful lot of free time I suppose. Personally I prefer to spend my available free time with my spouse, call me crazy if you want. Yes but now that we know you engage in such friendships too, not just your H, "sympathy" or "empathy" are clearly appropriate words to have used. That's fine, your prior post is worded ambiguously, thanks for clearing things up. Listen, I'll word my posts however I see fit. I'm not too worried about which vocabulary you want to apply to them, or how you think I should have written them. I would never call you crazy. But my H and I arrange our marriage in the way that we see fit, just as you and your spouse arrange yours the way you see fit. Edited November 8, 2010 by denise_xo
TheMENemy Posted November 8, 2010 Posted November 8, 2010 Listen, I'll word my posts however I see fit. Obviously. The point is that you chose initially to obfuscate by omitting the fact that both you and your H have opposite sex friendships. In fact you and your H have an "understanding." That is a different situation than OP's, in which there was obviously no agreement that both parties could have whatever opposite sex friendships they wanted to have. I'm not too worried about which vocabulary you want to apply to them, or how you think I should have written them. Again, that's obvious. However, a minimal level of factual completeness would seem to be a reasonable expectation if a poster such as yourself chooses to inject their own personal relationship situation into a discussion thread in support of a contention or argument related to the thread topic. You didn't do that, at least not until requested for clarification. On the contrary, you left out the critical fact that both you and your H have agreed that both of you can have opposite sex friendships, which is not the case in OP's situation, and in doing so, implied that OP's bf had absolutely no legitimate reason to question the propriety of such friendships. I would never call you crazy. Thank you. But my H and I arrange our marriage in the way that we see fit, just as you and your spouse arrange yours the way you see fit. Again obviously you are free to arrange your life any way you see fit. However, if you choose to use the way you have arranged your life as fodder for a position you're taking in a discussion thread, you need to not leave out critical details which, once revealed, completely destroy the point you are trying to make.
denise_xo Posted November 8, 2010 Posted November 8, 2010 Obviously. The point is that you chose initially to obfuscate by omitting the fact that both you and your H have opposite sex friendships. In fact you and your H have an "understanding." That is a different situation than OP's, in which there was obviously no agreement that both parties could have whatever opposite sex friendships they wanted to have. Again, that's obvious. However, a minimal level of factual completeness would seem to be a reasonable expectation if a poster such as yourself chooses to inject their own personal relationship situation into a discussion thread in support of a contention or argument related to the thread topic. You didn't do that, at least not until requested for clarification. On the contrary, you left out the critical fact that both you and your H have agreed that both of you can have opposite sex friendships, which is not the case in OP's situation, and in doing so, implied that OP's bf had absolutely no legitimate reason to question the propriety of such friendships. Thank you. Again obviously you are free to arrange your life any way you see fit. However, if you choose to use the way you have arranged your life as fodder for a position you're taking in a discussion thread, you need to not leave out critical details which, once revealed, completely destroy the point you are trying to make. Again, we'll just have to disagree here.
Author Carm Posted November 8, 2010 Author Posted November 8, 2010 Denise, thank you....you are obviously a confident woman and secure in your relationship. For the other men here who think its wrong, I say you should look deep inside yourself because you probably have deeply routed insecurity issues. No I would not like if my bf went out on a weekend night with a girl friend of his but since this is a weekday evening and I know he is unavailable then I think there is nothing wrong with it since I know me and I'm interested in fooling around on my bf. Like I said before, I am not interested in a guy that lacks confidence in himself and the relationship. Temptation is everywhere (if you want it to be) so at the end of the day it comes down to trust!
harmfulsweetz Posted November 8, 2010 Posted November 8, 2010 OP sounds emotionally abusive to her ex bf, IMO. Sometimes people who feel they are being emotionally abused react with anger. How did you figure that one out? Can't you stand the idea that a man may well be in the wrong? OP, I understand where he's coming from about the dinner thing. But to react in such an angry fashion is a dealbreaker for me at least. I've been with a guy with jealousy issues and these were soon followed by anger issues, which landed me in a possessive, controlling and manipulative relationship. If a guy so much as looked in my direction, I was called a 'slut' for what I was wearing, for the make-up etc. It only gets worse from hereonin. A guy can voice his opinions without abusing you.
harmfulsweetz Posted November 8, 2010 Posted November 8, 2010 Nickel, OP admitted that she made her bf go out on a double date with an OM and OM's wife. OM made "puppy dog eyes" at her throughout the dinner. What guy wouldn't get extremely angry at that except someone with a real bad cuckold fetish? Then she tops it off with making an out and out dinner date with OM#2. Let's look at what OP says was actually said to her in the convo. His friends think her behavior is "weird" and that she's "promiscuous." He called her names. After a day of NC he called and screamed at her. What did SHE say to him during these two convos? Nothing at all? Are you kidding me? The OP is a woman who apparently does whatever she feels like with no apologies. Do you actually think she said nothing at all during these two conversations? I'm more than sure she "gave" at least as good as she "got." Sorry to say this but what right do you have to make assumptions about the OP? The guy has issues, (he's even said he'd go to therapy for them) which indicates to me that he could have imagined the 'puppy dog' eyes, people imagine all sorts of things when they want to. My ex imagined every guy that came near me was hitting on me, even a guy I was best friends with (and had been for 13 years). I almost stopped speaking to said friend because of the trouble it was causing. No one has the right to call someone that, to make them feel like that. His issues are HIS issues. Not hers. My ex, too, was cheated on prior to meeting me, if I was honest, he wasn't ready for a relationship because he was still dealing with all of that. I just can't stand people who have issues, who twist these issues so that they are about the other person, rather than actually working on themselves. They project these issues, blaming the other person, but it doesn't matter who they are with. They will still act the same until they sort their problems out.
Author Carm Posted November 8, 2010 Author Posted November 8, 2010 Sorry to say this but what right do you have to make assumptions about the OP? The guy has issues, (he's even said he'd go to therapy for them) which indicates to me that he could have imagined the 'puppy dog' eyes, people imagine all sorts of things when they want to. My ex imagined every guy that came near me was hitting on me, even a guy I was best friends with (and had been for 13 years). I almost stopped speaking to said friend because of the trouble it was causing. No one has the right to call someone that, to make them feel like that. His issues are HIS issues. Not hers. My ex, too, was cheated on prior to meeting me, if I was honest, he wasn't ready for a relationship because he was still dealing with all of that. I just can't stand people who have issues, who twist these issues so that they are about the other person, rather than actually working on themselves. They project these issues, blaming the other person, but it doesn't matter who they are with. They will still act the same until they sort their problems out. I totally agree with the comment about the puppy dog look at me, I didn't see it BUT regardless I can't help it who looks at me like that, its about trust. I did end up ending it with him on the weekend but he's been back pedalling saying he's sorry and that he knows he has issues but then also says he should have just let me go and learn my lesson. Excuse me? "let me go" implies control and "learn my lesson" implies a sexual advance on me. Evidently, he believes I'm capable of cheating on him or at the very least am unable to fend off any inappropriate advances. He's still pointing the finger at me for his anger! Whatever....but this dance continues with roses and I'm sorry's.....well I'm sorry but its a big turn off for me.
brainygirl Posted November 8, 2010 Posted November 8, 2010 Here's my take, either the man I'm with trusts me or he doesn't. If he trusts me it shouldn't matter where I go or who I go with, I am trustworthy. If he doesn't trust me, it also doesn't matter where I go or who I am with because he shouldn't be with me. Its the same way with men I date. I trust them until I have a reason not to, and then I end things. This jealosy thing is just a method both parties us to control and manipulate each other. And yes, I've seen it work both ways (Don't look at/talk to/spend time with him/her) and (I'm going out with so and so tonight because you won't . . . . ). Its sick both ways. OP only you know the motivations for you or your friends, but if the boyfriend is screaming at you over a double date with a friend, things need to end.
TheMENemy Posted November 8, 2010 Posted November 8, 2010 I just can't stand people who have issues, who twist these issues so that they are about the other person, rather than actually working on themselves. They project these issues, blaming the other person, but it doesn't matter who they are with. They will still act the same until they sort their problems out. Should I copy and paste this over to your FWB thread or shall you?
harmfulsweetz Posted November 9, 2010 Posted November 9, 2010 I totally agree with the comment about the puppy dog look at me, I didn't see it BUT regardless I can't help it who looks at me like that, its about trust. I did end up ending it with him on the weekend but he's been back pedalling saying he's sorry and that he knows he has issues but then also says he should have just let me go and learn my lesson. Excuse me? "let me go" implies control and "learn my lesson" implies a sexual advance on me. Evidently, he believes I'm capable of cheating on him or at the very least am unable to fend off any inappropriate advances. He's still pointing the finger at me for his anger! Whatever....but this dance continues with roses and I'm sorry's.....well I'm sorry but its a big turn off for me. Stand your ground, he sounds like he has more issues than Rolling Stone. End of the day, guy either trusts you or he doesn't. It's not about the other people looking at you, because when I was in the same situation, he would blow a gasket over the tiniest glance my way. It didn't matter what kind of look it was really, he'd find a way to make out it was 'sexual' or something. I just can't stand people who have issues, who twist these issues so that they are about the other person, rather than actually working on themselves. They project these issues, blaming the other person, but it doesn't matter who they are with. They will still act the same until they sort their problems out. Should I copy and paste this over to your FWB thread or shall you? Wow, you're far reaching with that one aren't you? Sorry OP but this needs saying. And sorry everyone else too. (I promise this is the last you'll read about this). You really know how to twist things so that they fit your interpretation don't you? How's about, you keep my thread seperate from other threads please?Also, as stated in my thread, stop inferring things that aren't there. I don't blame him for my issues, my issues are mine and mine alone, had them before him, no doubt will after him. How many times does a girl need to say that? In this thread (in the quoted parts) you specifically twist it so that it is not the man's fault at all, in fact, going as far to twist it so that it is OPs fault. Can you not comprehend a man may be indeed wrong? In my thread, you vehemently refuse point blank to believe the guy could be at least at fault for some of it. End rant.Apologies to all except the one I'm directing it at.
NickelbackFan Posted November 9, 2010 Posted November 9, 2010 Stand your ground, he sounds like he has more issues than Rolling Stone. End of the day, guy either trusts you or he doesn't. It's not about the other people looking at you, because when I was in the same situation, he would blow a gasket over the tiniest glance my way. It didn't matter what kind of look it was really, he'd find a way to make out it was 'sexual' or something. Wow, you're far reaching with that one aren't you? Sorry OP but this needs saying. And sorry everyone else too. (I promise this is the last you'll read about this). You really know how to twist things so that they fit your interpretation don't you? How's about, you keep my thread seperate from other threads please?Also, as stated in my thread, stop inferring things that aren't there. I don't blame him for my issues, my issues are mine and mine alone, had them before him, no doubt will after him. How many times does a girl need to say that? In this thread (in the quoted parts) you specifically twist it so that it is not the man's fault at all, in fact, going as far to twist it so that it is OPs fault. Can you not comprehend a man may be indeed wrong? In my thread, you vehemently refuse point blank to believe the guy could be at least at fault for some of it. End rant.Apologies to all except the one I'm directing it at. Just like you hijacked my thread with your oh so very wrong assumptions.
harmfulsweetz Posted November 9, 2010 Posted November 9, 2010 Just like you hijacked my thread with your oh so very wrong assumptions. No, I actually was responding to your thread, not hijacking it. Get it right. Menemy was referring to my thread not Carm's thus that comment had no place here. My comments referred to your thread, and my personal experiences with a similar scenario thus had a place there. It may have slipped into 'tangent territory' but it was ontopic.It's also a threadjack, not a hijack.
NickelbackFan Posted November 9, 2010 Posted November 9, 2010 No, I actually was responding to your thread, not hijacking it. Get it right. Menemy was referring to my thread not Carm's thus that comment had no place here. My comments referred to your thread, and my personal experiences with a similar scenario thus had a place there. It may have slipped into 'tangent territory' but it was ontopic.It's also a threadjack, not a hijack. Oh I love a woman who can admit whens shes wrong
harmfulsweetz Posted November 9, 2010 Posted November 9, 2010 Oh I love a woman who can admit whens shes wrong Women are never wrong. Live and learn. Women are always right, men just have to start learning that and their lives will be so much easier.
NickelbackFan Posted November 9, 2010 Posted November 9, 2010 Women are never wrong. Live and learn. Women are always right, men just have to start learning that and their lives will be so much easier. LOL yes and the pope wears a thong.
harmfulsweetz Posted November 9, 2010 Posted November 9, 2010 LOL yes and the pope wears a thong. I bet he does too, the saucy minx.
kdark Posted November 9, 2010 Posted November 9, 2010 No heterosexual man wastes his time socializing (unless very rarely) one on one with females unless he has some kind of ulterior motive. Could be sexual, could be emotional, could be something else entirely. What it is NOT, is healthy for the primary relationship. The energy he is investing into these other "friendships" is energy that could be better directed to your marriage. I know I am late to the party, but this paragraph really struck a chord with me. One of my deepest friendships has been with a platonic female friend, where my only ulterior motive was that I enjoyed her company. That friendship started while I was in a relationship, and it didn't change after my gf and I broke up. And for the record, she was smoking hot (and bi sexual to boot). I think I was able to have this friendship with her because I didn't see her as only a potential gf or potential f-buddy who I kept around "just in case", but as a fellow person who I always had a blast around. I actually think this friendship was helpful to my relationship because I could get an unbiased female opinion on my relationship problems, and I gave her an unbiased male opinion on her relationship problems, instead of just the standard advice from same sex friends everyone gets. Is this really that rare themenemy?
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