this is depressing

[northern_sky]

northern sky, why not affect what you can control and try for now to put aside actions, people, situations that you can't control?

 

Right now, the only thing you can and should control is how well you do with your thesis project.

 

I guess I'm worried that I DID have control, but messed things up with him by making the wrong choices even when I obsessively tried to do the right thing. Part of me feels like I ruined something that could have been great, had I chilled out and just had fun with him, and it's hard for me to forgive myself for that. What do I tell myself when I have these thoughts, that I fcked up something potentially great which may never come along again? Recall, he's the only guy I've felt this strongly attracted (both intellectually and physically) to who has been interested in me to date.

[threebyfate]

I guess I'm worried that I DID have control, but messed things up with him by making the wrong choices even when I obsessively tried to do the right thing. Part of me feels like I ruined something that could have been great, had I chilled out and just had fun with him, and it's hard for me to forgive myself for that. What do I tell myself when I have these thoughts, that I fcked up something potentially great which may never come along again? Recall, he's the only guy I've felt this strongly attracted (both intellectually and physically) to who has been interested in me to date.

If you have to twist yourself into a pretzel to appeal to anyone, they're the wrong person regardless of attraction. And self-flagellation is harmful instead of helpful. Since when are people perfect in all their actions? Haven't met one yet, including and especially myself. Bet he also made some "mistakes" of which you didn't even notice.

 

Stop cycling over what you perceived as personal wrong doing. Whether you did or not, keep in mind that this guy wasn't ready or looking for a relationship. When individuals are in this frame of mind, they tend to give off mixed signals.

 

Also, when there are two individuals involved, neither can control the outcome of interactions. Sometimes people are in sync, other times every action is grating.

 

I sometimes wonder if people who keep cycling in self-perceived failures aren't in the grip of control issues. When internalizing the "failures" to self, it gives you the ability to reinvent the situation so the outcome is positive, hence you have full control.

[northern_sky]

If you have to twist yourself into a pretzel to appeal to anyone, they're the wrong person regardless of attraction. And self-flagellation is harmful instead of helpful. Since when are people perfect in all their actions? Haven't met one yet, including and especially myself. Bet he also made some "mistakes" of which you didn't even notice.

 

Stop cycling over what you perceived as personal wrong doing. Whether you did or not, keep in mind that this guy wasn't ready or looking for a relationship. When individuals are in this frame of mind, they tend to give off mixed signals.

 

Also, when there are two individuals involved, neither can control the outcome of interactions. Sometimes people are in sync, other times every action is grating.

 

I sometimes wonder if people who keep cycling in self-perceived failures aren't in the grip of control issues. When internalizing the "failures" to self, it gives you the ability to reinvent the situation so the outcome is positive, hence you have full control.

 

Yeah, I definitely do have control issues. I feel like in theory I have could have more control over a lot of social situations, IF I only knew the right way to act. But I feel powerless at the same time, because I don't know what that right way is. As a result I obsessively try to figure out the right way, and never get there.

 

I'm very hard on myself. I truly believe that if I had just acted with confidence there was a good chance he would have wanted a relationship with me. He seemed pretty open to the idea at first, but then withdrew. I see guys all the time who say they don't want a relationship, but then change their minds when a confident, appealing woman comes along.

 

The problem is I feel that I DO have to twist myself into a pretzel for the type of guy I am attracted to and I know from experience that lowering my standards only leads to bad relationships. The type of guy to which I'm typically drawn -- smart in the same way that I am, driven, and cute -- usually goes for confident women. Like J, they may be initially attracted to my positive qualities, but will inevitably be put off by my craziness and lack of confidence. The type of guy who wouldn't be put off usually doesn't have the other traits that appeal to me.

[Akherousia]

Yeah, I definitely do have control issues. I feel like in theory I have could have more control over a lot of social situations, IF I only knew the right way to act. But I feel powerless at the same time, because I don't know what that right way is. As a result I obsessively try to figure out the right way, and never get there.

 

I'm very hard on myself. I truly believe that if I had just acted with confidence there was a good chance he would have wanted a relationship with me. He seemed pretty open to the idea at first, but then withdrew. I see guys all the time who say they don't want a relationship, but then change their minds when a confident, appealing woman comes along.

 

The problem is I feel that I DO have to twist myself into a pretzel for the type of guy I am attracted to and I know from experience that lowering my standards only leads to bad relationships. The type of guy to which I'm typically drawn -- smart in the same way that I am, driven, and cute -- usually goes for confident women. Like J, they may be initially attracted to my positive qualities, but will inevitably be put off by my craziness and lack of confidence. The type of guy who wouldn't be put off usually doesn't have the other traits that appeal to me.

 

 

When a woman that kick-starts their libido comes along . Maybe you're aiming too high? Yes, the type of guy you want(as all people always want someone cute, or tall, or hot, or with muscles, or with big breasts) is wanted by pretty much every woman.

 

Do you have what it takes to get a man like that? Speaking from what I've read here, I believe you should look for a guy who is not as attractive as the guy you want.

[threebyfate]

Yeah, I definitely do have control issues. I feel like in theory I have could have more control over a lot of social situations, IF I only knew the right way to act. But I feel powerless at the same time, because I don't know what that right way is. As a result I obsessively try to figure out the right way, and never get there.

The right way is your own way, the way that feels authentic to you. When trying to "act" in a particular manner, it will feel inauthentic to the observer.

 

I'm very hard on myself. I truly believe that if I had just acted with confidence there was a good chance he would have wanted a relationship with me. He seemed pretty open to the idea at first, but then withdrew. I see guys all the time who say they don't want a relationship, but then change their minds when a confident, appealing woman comes along.

Plenty of guys are swayed by their physical, hormonal reactions but emotionally, they're not ready for relationships. You'll find that these are the types of guys who bolt at the earliest sign of any inconvenience to self. Not good relationship material.

 

The problem is I feel that I DO have to twist myself into a pretzel for the type of guy I am attracted to and I know from experience that lowering my standards only leads to bad relationships. The type of guy to which I'm typically drawn -- smart in the same way that I am, driven, and cute -- usually goes for confident women. Like J, they may be initially attracted to my positive qualities, but will inevitably be put off by my craziness and lack of confidence. The type of guy who wouldn't be put off usually doesn't have the other traits that appeal to me.

This is compensatory behaviour and something that many people adhere to. What they lack, they look for someone else to fulfill within them, instead of working on self-fulfillment. The same compensatory types appear to believe that relationships are of mutual need, sometimes of the soul-sucking codependent variety, rather than want to be with someone in a mutually enhancing relationship.

[northern_sky]

When a woman that kick-starts their libido comes along . Maybe you're aiming too high? Yes, the type of guy you want(as all people always want someone cute, or tall, or hot, or with muscles, or with big breasts) is wanted by pretty much every woman.

 

Do you have what it takes to get a man like that? Speaking from what I've read here, I believe you should look for a guy who is not as attractive as the guy you want.

 

Thanks for assuming I can't get an attractive guy. I believe that I am attractive (when I'm not being hard on myself). And it's not like I need some model. I just want somebody who is smart, driven and relatively cute. Btw, I've seen pictures of J's ex and she's average looking, but seemed confident and smart. I don't believe he's superficial relative to other guys. He's also told me before that me at several points finds me very attractive, and it's obvious when we're physical. My confidence is the issue.

 

Why speaking from what you've read here. How do you know I don't offer those qualities?

Edited November 6, 2010 by northern_sky

[northern_sky]

The right way is your own way, the way that feels authentic to you. When trying to "act" in a particular manner, it will feel inauthentic to the observer.

 

I agree, but the reality is my awkwardness seems to turn everyone off. I don't know if it's healthy to just accept it as the way I will always be, because then I don't see my relationship success ever improving. But at the same time, you're right, that I don't want to fake it. So what's the best approach to solving that problem?

 

Plenty of guys are swayed by their physical, hormonal reactions but emotionally, they're not ready for relationships. You'll find that these are the types of guys who bolt at the earliest sign of any inconvenience to self. Not good relationship material.

 

Yeah, you're right. I need to stop taking all the blame.

 

This is compensatory behaviour and something that many people adhere to. What they lack, they look for someone else to fulfill within them, instead of working on self-fulfillment. The same compensatory types appear to believe that relationships are of mutual need, sometimes of the soul-sucking codependent variety, rather than want to be with someone in a mutually enhancing relationship.

 

But aren't most people attracted to confidence in mates, even those who lack it? Based on my history, I don't seem to do well with guys who lack confidence either.

[northern_sky]

When a woman that kick-starts their libido comes along . Maybe you're aiming too high? Yes, the type of guy you want(as all people always want someone cute, or tall, or hot, or with muscles, or with big breasts) is wanted by pretty much every woman.

 

Do you have what it takes to get a man like that? Speaking from what I've read here, I believe you should look for a guy who is not as attractive as the guy you want.

 

Eh, not all attractive men are that superficial. Based on the photos I've seen of J's exes and what he says that he finds attractive, he is not the superficial type. The kind of guy I want is also not superficial, and I believe they do exist. I know, though, that my lack of confidence will always be a deal-breaker for men to which I'm drawn.

[threebyfate]

I agree, but the reality is my awkwardness seems to turn everyone off. I don't know if it's healthy to just accept it as the way I will always be, because then I don't see my relationship success ever improving. But at the same time, you're right, that I don't want to fake it. So what's the best approach to solving that problem?

The less you view your approach as awkward, the more fluid your interactions will be since you're not fighting self. Look at how we're interacting right now. Nothing awkward about it. And before you immediately jump onto the "but it's different, you're not someone I'm attracted to or it's easier online" excuses, in order to interact as such, it's inherent within you, no matter what medium you're using.

 

Also, as an introvert, you're never going to have a million friends since friendships or relationships with no depth, aren't your thing. Accept this and understand that there will only be a minimal number of people who you can interact with, at the depth level that makes you happy.

Yeah, you're right. I need to stop taking all the blame.

You bet. Forget the blame aspect totally. Not now since you have your education to consider but when you have more time, consider what you learned from this interaction instead of looking for more ways to tear yourself apart through self-criticism.

But aren't most people attracted to confidence in mates, even those who lack it? Based on my history, I don't seem to do well with guys who lack confidence either.

Forget the confidence aspect and look for another intuitive. Connection will be much easier.

[OceanGirl]

Listen to TBF.

 

Instead of trying really hard to be what you are not, just accept yourself. There will come a guy who will find your little quirks endearing.

[Kamille]

In undergrad, I was fascinated by a friend of mine. She was really quiet, pretty but not outstandingly so, she almost only spoke when spoken to, she would often just sit back and smile when out in a group and yet, all my guys friends were crazy about her. At the time I thought confidence meant "outgoing", so it took me awhile to piece together that what they found attractive was that even though she was quiet, she was also confident. She simply didn't feel the need to try and impress anybody and accepted she was quirky. And you know what, my guy friends loved it. They found her intriguing.

 

Once I made that realization, I gave myself the right to accept who I was and stopped thinking that being confident meant being outgoing. I accepted that I often felt awkward in social situations and gave myself the right to be quiet. Surprisingly, that's when I became more comfortable in social situations.

 

Do the same Shadow. There's no secret recipe to the social world, there's just self-acceptance.

 

Note on the alcohol and amphetamines: you're stepping on a slippery slope. First, because alcohol is a depressant and, well, I know little about amphetamines, but I can only imagine the high is followed by a low. You already struggle with depression, and these drugs contribute to perpetuating it. And, certainly, I doubt you want to create a dependency. Amongst other things that lift your spirit and make you feel relaxed and confident: exercise and, if you don't have time to hit the gym, masturbation. No, I'm not even blushing when saying that . As those two "activities" provide a natural high, they are much better for your body.

[northern_sky]

Yesterday evening I sent J an email as a last ditch effort before throwing in the towel. I think it was well composed. I basically told him explicitly what I'm looking for to clear up the confusion, and asked him if that's what he wants. I told him I want to have fun with him, but I don't know if that's possible given where we both are. I also told him that I'm going to be really busy in the next month working on my thesis, so I probably won't be able to see him until that's done, but will have more free time at the beginning of next year.

 

I figure if he's truly interested, he'll step up to the plate. If not, I will have my answer once and for all. I am expecting that he will not step up to the plate. He is away at for a wedding in the city this weekend, so I will probably not hear back from him until tomorrow night or Monday. But I think getting that definitive response will help me completely move on.

 

Btw, to those who think it was wrong for me to bring this up over email rather than in person, this is a question I mulled over. We're both rather awkward (in general, not just with each other), and we both seem to feel much more comfortable expressing ourselves in the written word.

 

I don't imagine our in person conversation would have gone well, as the one time I tried to discuss this with him irl before things were left vague and confusing.

Edited November 6, 2010 by northern_sky

[xpaperxcutx]

Yesterday evening I sent J an email as a last ditch effort before throwing in the towel. I think it was well composed. I basically told him explicitly what I'm looking for to clear up the confusion, and asked him if that's what he wants. I told him I want to have fun with him, but I don't know if that's possible given where we both are. I also told him that I'm going to be really busy in the next month working on my thesis, so I probably won't be able to see him until that's done, but will have more free time at the beginning of next year.

 

Isn't that kind of rehashing what he had told you? Why are you turning this on him when he already affirmed you that he doesn't want anything but fun.

 

 

Btw, to those who think it was wrong for me to bring this up over email rather than in person, this is a question I mulled over. We're both rather awkward (in general, not just with each other), and we both seem to feel much more comfortable expressing ourselves in the written word.

 

I don't imagine our in person conversation would have gone well, as the one time I tried to discuss this with him irl before things were left vague and confusing.

 

Well you pretty much answered your own question. If the both of you are awkward in person, doesn't that already spell out your incompatibility?

[northern_sky]

 

 

Isn't that kind of rehashing what he had told you? Why are you turning this on him when he already affirmed you that he doesn't want anything but fun.

 

 

I am second guessing myself now and realizing that sending the message was a mistake. I realize that I spend way too much time trying to control how the other person sees me rather than thinking about what's best for me.

 

Well you pretty much answered your own question. If the both of you are awkward in person, doesn't that already spell out your incompatibility?

 

yes.

[xpaperxcutx]

 

I am second guessing myself now and realizing that sending the message was a mistake. I realize that I spend way too much time trying to control how the other person sees me rather than thinking about what's best for me.

 

 

 

yes.

 

Well there's no point in taking back what you wrote him. The best thing you can do is say " NEXT!".

[northern_sky]

Lol, my roommate literally just posted a facebook photo of me and J deep in conversation moments before we hooked up. Arg. I blocked her from my newsfeed. I don't need to see that s4$5.

[welikeincrowds]

I am second guessing myself now and realizing that sending the message was a mistake.

 

I think I might agree with you. There are only so many "define the relationship" conversations one can have before it's obvious someone is stalling.

[northern_sky]

I am at an extreme low.

 

I spent most of yesterday doing something positive for myself: working on my thesis.

 

I logged on to facebook late last night and the top thing in my newsfeed was a new status from him. This means he clearly has internet access wherever he's staying and is choosing to not respond to my message. His status update was a cryptic quote: "You never understand the universe." I feel like it's some vague, snide reference to me.

 

I know I shouldn't care, and I'm really trying not to, but for some reason I feel awful. And I know I will be crushed if he never responds to my message, because I expected he would at least be decent enough to do that after how much contact we've had, the rather personal conversations we've shared, and the fact that we're in the same circle of friends. I know it's irrational, but if he had at least sent me a polite message saying he wasn't interested, I would have felt better.

 

I know a lot of people can't understand why I would care so much. But please just try to understand that for me this is really painful. Really, some dismissive comment about how I'm feeling right now will only make me beat myself up.

 

I feel like I got a taste of something I really wanted with him, and I will never get it again. He was everything I wanted, if he had only been emotionally available. And I really feel like it was a fluke that he liked me. After all I'm not getting any younger.

[Kamille]

Once again, you're expecting a response on your timeline and reading into things that are undecipherable.

 

I feel like I got a taste of something I really wanted with him, and I will never get it again. He was everything I wanted, if he had only been emotionally available. And I really feel like it was a fluke that he liked me.

 

Nope, not true. I hope you have learned by now that these feelings you're currently experiencing are part of your grieving process and only temporary. Go back to your breaking up history: you raise this "only this guy, this was special, I will never find anyone like him" line every time a relationship ends. It's normal to feel this way, but recognize that this feeling is temporary. If we base ourselves on your dating history, you will be dating someone else who is somehow exceptional according to you and to whom you must absolutely hang on in 2 months or less.

[Star Gazer]

I haven't read the entire thread.

 

I do agree that you deserve some sort of response back, honestly, if only because you have the same circle of friends. Problem is, you've had the same conversation several times now (I think), so he very well may think that responding (the same way he has all along) in an attempt to clarify things apparently still isn't going to help you understand where his head is at... So he's choosing to ignore you to drive the point home.

 

OR he might think that your message deserves a thoughtful response, and he just hasn't had time to craft one. You don't know. The only thing you know, and you do know this, is that he's EU and does not want what you want. You are BOTH compromising your needs.

 

I feel like I got a taste of something I really wanted with him, and I will never get it again. He was everything I wanted, if he had only been emotionally available. And I really feel like it was a fluke that he liked me. After all I'm not getting any younger.

 

Being emotionally available AND wanting the same thing you do should be the two top qualities a guy must have before you look at all of his other qualities, because without that, how can he ever be everything you want and need? He simply can't.

 

And do you realize those top two qualities (EU and wanting the same things) are all personal to him, and have nothing to do with you? And therefore shouldn't feel like a rejection?

 

Also, I'm pretty sure you had some negative things to say about J, that or whatever reason you are choosing to ignore now. I'm hungover in my girlfriend's casita on my iPhone right now so I don't have the ability to search right now... But just say the word and I will. You need to take those rose colored glasses off when it comes to this guy.

 

This guy wasn't the be all end all of your romantic life. There is better, there will be better. But you can't find it until you let go.

[northern_sky]

I haven't read the entire thread.

 

I do agree that you deserve some sort of response back, honestly, if only because you have the same circle of friends. Problem is, you've had the same conversation several times now (I think), so he very well may think that responding (the same way he has all along) in an attempt to clarify things apparently still isn't going to help you understand where his head is at... So he's choosing to ignore you to drive the point home.

 

OR he might think that your message deserves a thoughtful response, and he just hasn't had time to craft one. You don't know. The only thing you know, and you do know this, is that he's EU and does not want what you want. You are BOTH compromising your needs.

 

 

 

Being emotionally available AND wanting the same thing you do should be the two top qualities a guy must have before you look at all of his other qualities, because without that, how can he ever be everything you want and need? He simply can't.

 

And do you realize those top two qualities (EU and wanting the same things) are all personal to him, and have nothing to do with you? And therefore shouldn't feel like a rejection?

 

Also, I'm pretty sure you had some negative things to say about J, that or whatever reason you are choosing to ignore now. I'm hungover in my girlfriend's casita on my iPhone right now so I don't have the ability to search right now... But just say the word and I will. You need to take those rose colored glasses off when it comes to this guy.

 

This guy wasn't the be all end all of your romantic life. There is better, there will be better. But you can't find it until you let go.

 

Thanks, that actually made me feel a bit more level-headed.

 

The only negative thing I remember is my first impression of him, which is that he was narcissistic. But after getting to know him better, I think I was too harsh. He does seem genuinely considerate in a lot of ways. Heh, I wish there was more about him for me to dislike.

[northern_sky]

Btw, if it illuminates anything I'll reveal the question I asked him. One thing that's been bothering me is that we've had sex a bunch of times and he could be teaming with STDs for all I know given his recent preference for casual sex. I probably should have just gone out and gotten tested to make sure I'm still clean, but the truth is I've been scared and avoidant.

 

So on Thursday night I asked him when he had last been tested. He said over the summer, when he was with his ex. I gulped and asked him if he had had sex with anyone else since being tested. He seemed really offended. He said, "usually I wouldn't answer that question at all, but for medical purposes only you're the only person I've had sex with since my ex." Then he asked me when I had last been tested, and I told him in mid September. He then said, "usually I wouldn't ask this, but for medical purposes only have you had sex with anyone since?" I told him I hadn't, which is true.

 

After I broached this, he seemed really offended and weird. I guess I don't really understand, because if he thought my question was so offensive and inappropriate, he shouldn't have asked me the same thing.

 

It was a stupid idea. I should have just gotten tested and found out. Who knows if he's even being honest.

Edited November 7, 2010 by northern_sky

[Gattica]

If anyone gets offended by being asked about STD testing, they aren't mature even to be having sex.

 

Your health should be a top priority.

[Kamille]

Btw, if it illuminates anything I'll reveal the question I asked him. One thing that's been bothering me is that we've had sex a bunch of times and he could be teaming with STDs for all I know given his recent preference for casual sex. I probably should have just gone out and gotten tested to make sure I'm still clean, but the truth is I've been scared and avoidant.

 

So on Thursday night I asked him when he had last been tested. He said over the summer, when he was with his ex. I gulped and asked him if he had had sex with anyone else since being tested. He seemed really offended. He said, "usually I wouldn't answer that question at all, but for medical purposes only you're the only person I've had sex with since my ex." Then he asked me when I had last been tested, and I told him in mid September. He then said, "usually I wouldn't ask this, but for medical purposes only have you had sex with anyone since?" I told him I hadn't, which is true.

 

After I broached this, he seemed really offended and weird. It was a stupid idea. I should have just gotten tested and found out. Who knows if he's even being honest.

 

I've had that conversation with every guy I've dated, granted, usually before engaging in sex. There is no reason to approach it as if you're accusing him of anything and no reason for him for to be offended.

 

Don't internalize asking a question. Stop trying to figure out if you've done anything wrong. Just remember, you got involved with this guy knowing it wasn't going to get serious.

[threebyfate]

Sending positive vibes your way, northern_sky.

 

No EU guy is worth the grief.