When somebody says "lower your standards" or "stay in your league"

[Akherousia]

No, I took my pictures down a few hours after I posted that thread (a few days ago) and you opened your account today. Which tells me you either didn't see my pictures or you're a regular user hiding behind a new account (and I think I can guess who ), which basically invalidates your opinion to me. But nice try with the new account...

 

As you'll notice most of the men who responded to my thread said they thought I was above average or attractive. This is what I mean about beauty being subjective. Some attractive guys find me average, others find me very attractive, as I'm sure any guy I've dated will attest.

 

It doesn't hurt that I'm hella smart and a great conversationalist.

 

 

No, it means that I could have been reading this forum for some time now but only decided to chime in with my opinions.

 

Or because a book was writen a thousand years ago, I could not possibly have read it?

 

"As you'll notice most of the men who responded to my thread said they thought I was above average or attractive. This is what I mean about beauty being subjective. Some attractive guys find me average, others find me very attractive, as I'm sure any guy I've dated will attest."

 

Most guys said that because most of those guys were average. How do I know? Brad Pitt is going to find Angelina Jolie to be attractive. Brad Pitt is not going to find some average woman to be physically attractive. Those guys could have said that, that you are attractive, because they know you have low self - esteem and don't want to hurt you.

 

Beauty is not subjective. Science has shown that men are attracted to certain women and women are attracted to certain men but when you put a bunch of guys with the typical male drive, you can be sure that to them, a loaf of bread is caviar.

Edited November 7, 2010 by Akherousia

[Aflac2010]

Yeah I don't like the whole "league" and "social food chain" thing that basically says "oh you're not supposed to go after that person, you're supposed to go after this person, because their more equivalent to you socially and in terms of looks. But usually what that means like one of the posters before said, is to go after people you're not attracted to at all. What's the fun in that? What's the point? How did this whole social/attraction hierarchy come about anyway? It just seems kinda silly and just another way to complicate dating. It's also insulting to the person who gets told that. It's basically saying "Oh you don't look as good as her or she's socially better than you, so you should know that you can't get her. As you all know sometimes when a guy goes after a woman and gets rejected, sometimes he'll get ridiculed for the rejection by others (co-workers, etc.) I think that sometimes the reason why this happens is because people might have thought the guy was pursuing someone "out of his league". Even if this is true, I don't think anyone should be faulted or ridiculed for pursuing something they want.

[SteveC80]

Ah, so now you're bragging. So why are they ex boyfriends?

 

"You assume every woman will melt into a puddle when some hot dope comes along."

 

most males melt as soon as woman touches them. Don't think that any average man wouldn't die if Angelina Jolie kissed him. Since most women are average(as are most men), yes, most women are going to melt and regress to their 15 year old self as soon as Gerard Butler smiles at them.

 

Please. I can walk down a street and find ten guys who fit that description.

 

Then explain to me how so many women can't find a guy to their liking?

 

Stockholm has women from all places. There are women from Turkey. There are women from italy and France. You should def. watch some Brazilian Soap operas. Pretty much every average woman in Brazil tops Natalie Portman in Beauty, body and sex appeal.

 

I agree with your posts,as some here know i used to do a little modeling and when i was younger and not to brag but women flocked to me

 

Im not exaggerating in that hundred of married women came to me and tried to cheat on their husbands just becadue they were insanely attracted to me

 

My best friends wife who never showed signs of being bad or promiscious and my best friend who treated her liek godl long story short she texted me one day and told me to meet her and wanted to *blank* me

 

Women will kill each other to get to extrenely hot men

 

The oens who say they dont like the extremely hot guys blla blah hblah are saying that out of insecurity,if oen of us hit on them and charmed thme theyd drop their panties whitin seconds

 

Women are worse then men

[counterman]

I think attractiveness is subjective. However, there can be a degree of generalisations in terms of who we do find attractive and I think these are mostly with the most attractive people as defined by their features, and overall appearance.

 

I often wondered why some people would date down, so to speak ,if they do not find their partners attractive. I have seen some odd couples where their is an obvious difference in physical appearance and yet they seem very together. Some of my friends are that situation. Now, I cannot assume what motives they may have or if the affections and chemistry are genuine but I do deduce that there must be some degree of attraction.

 

As for myself, I wouldn't date anyone that is less attractive than me. In saying that, there are no defined "leagues"; it is just whether I am attracted to the girl or not. Now, I do not know what drives that feeling of physical attraction but, trying to look at it objectively, I would there is a correlation between the physical appearance of the girl and the girls I am attracted to. To me, they're all very attractive but some of my friends wouldn't find them attractive.

 

As I can gather on my level of attractiveness by the feedback I get from the girls I approach, I would say that I am fine with where I am at. There is no "lowering of standards". Some are not interested but some definitely are. That really depends on other factors, rather than pure physical attraction, like personality. However, I am absolutely realistic about my appearance. I am definitely not the hottest thing going around (even though I might feel it sometimes), so I don't expect to get all the hot girls.

 

As for you northern_sky, I did find you attractive. But I agree with what you said, it really is subjective for the most part.

[Leigh 87]

5' 2", 140 lbs is not 20 pounds overweight.

 

 

 

But it is too big to have a very hot body; it is not a 5'5, 110, slender women, who is delicate, feminine, and ethereal.

SOMEDUDE - I have a better body then the model girl. My face is not ugly either; and yet, some guys find me attractive, some hot; however, there are MANY AVERAGE and BELOW average guys, that DO NOT find me attractive.

 

Plenty of girls like me have above average bodies, but their face is not quiet universally attractive enough to bring in ALL men.

 

The thing about women with above average bodies like myself ( about a 7or 8), I find that it is frustrating for me to FIND what league I am in! I mean, one hot guy at the gym found me to be attractive, yet many average and plain guys do not really notice me haha.

 

I think in terms of looks, they do determine to SOME extent, the level of attractivness in the opposite sex that you have the capacity to attract and attain.

 

League does mean looks; 5 ' 2 at 140 lbs, even with a great face and great career and personality, will not lure as many men in who prefer taller, slimmer, bikini clad women; because there are plenty of slim, universally more attractive women out there who ALSO have good personalities.

Ultimately, we want to end up with a partner in life that we want to ber with every day, and that goes way beyond appearances; however, there are many slender and beautiful LOOKING women, who ARE also a joy to be around.

 

If a guy is blessed with good looks, then I guess he naturally realized that he has the option of not only getting a girl with a great personality, but one that also has a body that they strongly desire.

[sweetjasmine]

But it is too big to have a very hot body;

 

According to who?

 

Even when I weighed a little more than that, I still had plenty of people admiring my body. And when I dipped below 130, I had plenty of people ask me if I was ill. If I weighed 110 (which is probably a little chunky/overweight by your standards), I would look like walking death, and in fact, the only way I could get to that weight would be to seriously harm myself and/or cut off a limb or two. But that's what's "ethereal" and feminine? I'll give you one thing - it certainly is delicate. In order to weigh 110, I'd have to be so malnourished that you could snap me in half.

 

So why does one person or another get to decide what weights/heights constitute a "very hot body", across the board, when there's more to someone's body than measurements? Why do you use the word "universally" when comparing the 5'2" 140 lbs girl to slimmer women? How do you know that the slimmer woman is going to be universally more attractive?

 

And 5'5" 110 lbs. is medically underweight. Your perspective seems warped.

[Alma Mobley]

And 5'5" 110 lbs. is medically underweight. Your perspective seems warped.

 

I believe Leigh suffers from an eating disorder, so yes, her perspective is warped. The above is NOT a "hot body" and most men would be turned off by it. Some men do prefer the skinny-waif look, and that is fine.

 

I'm 5'6" and normally weigh 130lbs (I had a baby recently and am breastfeeding, so my weight is higher at the moment) and men certainly treated me like I had a "hot" body. When I weighed 120, I didn't look very good. It's silly to say only this or only that = hot.

[You'reasian]

Whenver sombody has problems attracting the opposite sex you usually hear this which may be good advice but it kinda leaves a bad taste in my mouth as far as the dating scene marriage love etc

 

In the sense that people are on levels and only settle for what they can get with how they look or whatever

 

Are most people picked because the perosn inittiating realized he or she just cant do any betetr and not becasue they tohught that person was good looking when they first sae them?

 

I hate the word settle but we all settle in some way for whatever we can get or attract and it may not be what we are that moved by but we cant do any better

 

I know its depressing to break down the whole thing like this but isnt it kind of reality we settle for what we can get with where we are on the social food chain?

 

And if we were allot higher up wed probably be with somebody different?

 

Define better.

 

I've had my fair share of dating and relationship experiences with somewhat average looking to modelesque.

 

I would much rather take a decent looking, wonderful, healthy, fantastic, great partner of a woman over a catty, selfish, unavailable hottie.

 

I believe I know what better is for me.

[Woggle]

I agree with your posts,as some here know i used to do a little modeling and when i was younger and not to brag but women flocked to me

 

Im not exaggerating in that hundred of married women came to me and tried to cheat on their husbands just becadue they were insanely attracted to me

 

My best friends wife who never showed signs of being bad or promiscious and my best friend who treated her liek godl long story short she texted me one day and told me to meet her and wanted to *blank* me

 

Women will kill each other to get to extrenely hot men

 

The oens who say they dont like the extremely hot guys blla blah hblah are saying that out of insecurity,if oen of us hit on them and charmed thme theyd drop their panties whitin seconds

 

Women are worse then men

 

 

Very true. I really think this is why many good looking players are able to use and discard women with no problem. They know damn well why women want them and they treat them accordingly. I have no sympathy for the women who get played by these players.

[Leigh 87]

I never said 110 at 5 ' 5 was always ideal for YOU. YOU look best at YOUR natural weight. As do all women; most women of this height are not healthy at 110 lbs. I am saying, that the women who have naturally slender, long limbs, whilst also having a big wip to waist ratio ( a curvy hour glass), in addition to a ncie butt and breasts, are more physically attractive than a 5 '2 women who is 140 lbs.

 

Weighing below your natural weight looks BAD - I am not SAYING that YOU would look better at 110 lbs. I am saying that I think the hottest looking women, have prety faces, in addition to having long and slelnder limbs, with a smallish body type that CAN healthily be 5 ' 5 ish and 114 ish or lower, or be 5 '7 and even 112 lbs.

 

There is a reason the soccer stars and all those male models, and just attractive men in general, are not with womon who are 5 '2 and 140 lbs; these women are NOT FAT by any means, however, it is not as physically attractive to as many men, as is a women that has naturally long and slender limbs, such as models do ( the healthy ones, with curves, not boy ish ones).

 

I AM NOT saying any one is "fat". I am saying that very very good looking men DO tend to go for women who have great skin, look pretty, are fit and healthy, and take care of their bodies, in addition to being slender and feminine

 

One women isd 5 ' 2 and 140 lbs, with a cute face, but not stunning features; whilst the women next to her is 5 '6 ish, 110 - 114 lbs, with a very small waist, and a pilates toned body, with long slender legs, and nice breasts, and she also has a memorable and distinctively beasutiful face.

 

I can tell you, that the slimmer, fitter looking and more striking women will win the affection of more attractive men, than the girl who has less stunning facial featurs, and not a long, slender, bikini type body.

 

This is just reality. Women who are not model material get great guys, of course, but most of them are not super attractive. Although the notion of "leagues" is not absolute; some women are slightly less attractive than their partner, and viser versa.

 

Although most super hot men and women are not with very average partners. Because there are lots of lovely, smart, awsome people that are attractive.

[Kamille]

I notice that people who believe in leagues, at least on LS, are the ones who struggle the most with self-esteem issues and with establishing long-term relationships. Honestly, I think it's because their priorities are skewed. Their approach to attraction isn't really about finding a compatible partner, sharing their life with someone, establishing a healthy relationship. It's all about proving their value to the world. I think some of the posters here think the "hotness" factor of their dates, gf-bf, etc, is linked to their social status, much like a job, a car or clothes. Basically, they approach partners as accessories.

 

I just can't figure out which comes first: the self-esteem issue or the belief that there is some kind of "universal beauty contest" they have to win.

[Akherousia]

I notice that people who believe in leagues, at least on LS, are the ones who struggle the most with self-esteem issues and with establishing long-term relationships. Honestly, I think it's because their priorities are skewed. Their approach to attraction isn't really about finding a compatible partner, sharing their life with someone, establishing a healthy relationship. It's all about proving their value to the world. I think some of the posters here think the "hotness" factor of their dates, gf-bf, etc, is linked to their social status, much like a job, a car or clothes. Basically, they approach partners as accessories.

 

I just can't figure out which comes first: the self-esteem issue or the belief that there is some kind of "universal beauty contest" they have to win.

 

One time I was in Spain and I had in front of mine something quite spectacular. A swedish couple. They were both in their early 20's. The woman was easily 6'2'' and the man was above 6'7''. They were incredibly beautiful. Do you honestly believe that the woman or the man would fall in love with the average Spanish person?

 

When attraction is what makes people come together? We mate for good genes, we don't mate for "liking the same things" and having the "same political views".

 

We mate as our genetic wiring tells us to mate. And to go against nature? That'd be like denying yourself water.

[somedude81]

I notice that people who believe in leagues, at least on LS, are the ones who struggle the most with self-esteem issues and with establishing long-term relationships.

I agree with you.

 

When I was younger, I didn't care about leagues at all; I pursued whomever girl I was attracted to.

 

It wasn't till I started receiving constant rejection that I realized that some women are more obtainable than others.

 

Now that I'm older, I don't even bother getting to know very attractive girls, because I know that getting one is basically impossible.

 

The biggest hurdle is that really hot girls, have lots of guys after them. So I would have to compete with the other guys, many of whom are much more attractive than myself.

 

Long story short, the concept of leagues develops naturally. If one is rarely rejected then they never internalize the belief.

[brainygirl]

I notice that people who believe in leagues, at least on LS, are the ones who struggle the most with self-esteem issues and with establishing long-term relationships. Honestly, I think it's because their priorities are skewed. Their approach to attraction isn't really about finding a compatible partner, sharing their life with someone, establishing a healthy relationship. It's all about proving their value to the world. I think some of the posters here think the "hotness" factor of their dates, gf-bf, etc, is linked to their social status, much like a job, a car or clothes. Basically, they approach partners as accessories.

 

I just can't figure out which comes first: the self-esteem issue or the belief that there is some kind of "universal beauty contest" they have to win.

 

I think you have a point. Some of the guys here complaining that "average" women who are all young, slim, and beautiful, have posted pictures asking what they looked like. And while they weren't ugly, they weren't on the same level as the girls they are looking down their nose on as "not that great".

[Akherousia]

I think you have a point. Some of the guys here complaining that "average" women who are all young, slim, and beautiful, have posted pictures asking what they looked like. And while they weren't ugly, they weren't on the same level as the girls they are looking down their nose on as "not that great".

 

And their inability to understand mating stratergy is amusing too.

[somedude81]

I think you have a point. Some of the guys here complaining that "average" women who are all young, slim, and beautiful, have posted pictures asking what they looked like. And while they weren't ugly, they weren't on the same level as the girls they are looking down their nose on as "not that great".

The problem with that thought, is that most young, slim girls are attractive. One would have to look hard to find one that wasn't.

 

Really the only thing that affects a woman's attractiveness is her weight. Even then, most young women aren't overweight.

 

So when just about every girl is young, slim and cute; should I purposely try to find one that isn't?

 

Also, the average woman is more attractive than the average man. So of course the guys aren't on the same level as the girls. The number of guys that can be called hot is a much smaller percentage of women that are hot.

[Akherousia]

The problem with that thought, is that most young, slim girls are attractive. One would have to look hard to find one that wasn't.

 

Really the only thing that affects a woman's attractiveness is her weight. Even then, most young women aren't overweight.

 

So when just about every girl is young, slim and cute; should I purposely try to find one that isn't?

 

Also, the average woman is more attractive than the average man. So of course the guys aren't on the same level as the girls. The number of guys that can be called hot is a much smaller percentage of women that are hot.

 

Tell me something. You know all of that. So why do you insist in pursuing a woman when you don't have the power(looks, height, body, money, social status) to get a woman?

 

You have to understand that women have endless options. There's always some guy interested in a woman, regardless of how pretty or average she is.

 

What do you have to offer?

[Kamille]

One time I was in Spain and I had in front of mine something quite spectacular. A swedish couple. They were both in their early 20's. The woman was easily 6'2'' and the man was above 6'7''. They were incredibly beautiful. Do you honestly believe that the woman or the man would fall in love with the average Spanish person?

 

When attraction is what makes people come together? We mate for good genes, we don't mate for "liking the same things" and having the "same political views".

 

We mate as our genetic wiring tells us to mate. And to go against nature? That'd be like denying yourself water.

 

Methodology my dear Watkins.

 

The studies you base your understanding of attraction on are actually lab studies, where a population, generally students, are asked to rate the "attractiveness" of a partner. Some studies have tested women's attractions based on their time of the month.

 

But here, you are talking about pure physical attraction and no interpersonal relationship. It's also "one-time". I don't think the conclusions extrapolated from these studies should be that biology is destiny. So these studies explain short term attraction, of the kind you might find at closing time in a bar scene. It's valuable for predicting ONS, but not much else.

 

In fact, longitudinal social studies have proven that the single most valuable predictors of long-term attraction are education and social class. In other words, people with a degree are more likely to marry someone with an equivalent degree. Yes, common background plays a key part on who we chose as long term partners. This means compatibility is a much more important factor than looks in finding a partner.

Edited November 7, 2010 by Kamille

[somedude81]

Tell me something. You know all of that. So why do you insist in pursuing a woman when you don't have the power(looks, height, body, money, social status) to get a woman?

Because it's human nature to want to have a partner. I also have a thing called a sex drive.

[EasyHeart]

I notice that people who believe in leagues, at least on LS, are the ones who struggle the most with self-esteem issues and with establishing long-term relationships. Honestly, I think it's because their priorities are skewed. Their approach to attraction isn't really about finding a compatible partner, sharing their life with someone, establishing a healthy relationship. It's all about proving their value to the world. I think some of the posters here think the "hotness" factor of their dates, gf-bf, etc, is linked to their social status, much like a job, a car or clothes. Basically, they approach partners as accessories.

 

I just can't figure out which comes first: the self-esteem issue or the belief that there is some kind of "universal beauty contest" they have to win.

I think you've hit the nail on the head!!!

 

And I think it's the low self-esteem that comes first. The arm-candy is a way to obtain external validation: "I must be a good person. Look at the hot chick (or guy) I'm with!"

[Akherousia]

Methodology my dear Watkins.

 

The studies you base your understanding of attraction on are actually lab studies, where a population, generally students, are asked to rate the "attractiveness" of a partner. Some studies have tested women's attractions based on their time of the month.

 

But here, you are talking about pure physical attraction and no interpersonal relationship. It's also "one-time". I don't think the conclusions extrapolated from these studies should be that biology is destiny. So these studies explain short term attraction, of the kind you might find at closing time in a bar scene. It's valuable for predicting ONS, but not much else.

 

In fact, longitudinal social studies have proven that the single most valuable predictors of long-term attraction are education and social class. In other words, people with a degree are more likely to marry someone with an equivalent degree. Yes, common background plays a key part on who we chose as long term partners. This means compatibility is a much more important factor than looks in finding a partner.

 

 

My 9th grade teacher has a master in Geology. Her husband of 20 years has the 9th grade. My teacher is tall, gifted with natural D's and she's very cute. Why have they been together for so long? Because her husband offered a way out of the village she lived in and because he works hard(provider) to keep her happy.

 

I know a man, bald and obese living with an attractive younger women. Why did she marry him? Because he had a house and she wanted to leave her parents house.

 

I know another guy, he looks like he's the younger brother of Christian Bale. His line of work is tarot. He reads cards for a living. He's been living with the woman he's with, for the past 10 years. He never payed anything.

 

My father has higher education. My mother has the 4th grade. They've been together for the past 27 years. Why? Because my mother is friking hot.

 

My grandmother married my Grandfather, a carpenter, when she could have had a doctor. Why? Because my grandfather was 6'4''.

 

They were together from age 18 until age 50(death).

 

Studies have been done and they show that tall men are far more likely to become wealthy, have good jobs etc. This explains(and taller men being more masculine) why women want the taller guy.

 

Maybe those stats indicating that people with degrees stay married longer only show that people with degrees know that breaking a contract(marriage) is not that smart.

 

Beauty, height, body and good genes will always be number one. I'm pretty sure the women I know, the women I talk to and even the women we see on LS would not find a 5'4'' man to be more attractive than a 6'2'' man.

 

Unless the guy is Tom Cruise.

 

As for women and men looking for other things beyond beauty when intereted in marriage, well, you are not going to exactly jump into something without making a profit out of it, are ya?

[brainygirl]

The problem with that thought, is that most young, slim girls are attractive. One would have to look hard to find one that wasn't.

 

Really the only thing that affects a woman's attractiveness is her weight. Even then, most young women aren't overweight.

 

So when just about every girl is young, slim and cute; should I purposely try to find one that isn't?

 

Also, the average woman is more attractive than the average man. So of course the guys aren't on the same level as the girls. The number of guys that can be called hot is a much smaller percentage of women that are hot.

 

1) I'm sure that isn't true, you just don't notice the girls who aren't "hot"

2) What do you have to offer besides a chip on your shoulder and a rather shallow atttitude about women's bodies?

 

what are you do to?

 

Meet women your own age

get more interesting

develop your personality and career

Do some soul searching and decide what is important to you in a mate (aside from being slim) and then, once you know what you want in a partner, start trying to meet all sorts of people with similar values.

 

Or you can continue to complain about women on line while bashing their bodies.

[Kamille]

My 9th grade teacher has a master in Geology. Her husband of 20 years has the 9th grade. My teacher is tall, gifted with natural D's and she's very cute. Why have they been together for so long? Because her husband offered a way out of the village she lived in and because he works hard(provider) to keep her happy.

 

I know a man, bald and obese living with an attractive younger women. Why did she marry him? Because he had a house and she wanted to leave her parents house.

 

I know another guy, he looks like he's the younger brother of Christian Bale. His line of work is tarot. He reads cards for a living. He's been living with the woman he's with, for the past 10 years. He never payed anything.

 

My father has higher education. My mother has the 4th grade. They've been together for the past 27 years. Why? Because my mother is friking hot.

 

My grandmother married my Grandfather, a carpenter, when she could have had a doctor. Why? Because my grandfather was 6'4''.

 

They were together from age 18 until age 50(death).

 

Studies have been done and they show that tall men are far more likely to become wealthy, have good jobs etc. This explains(and taller men being more masculine) why women want the taller guy.

 

Maybe those stats indicating that people with degrees stay married longer only show that people with degrees know that breaking a contract(marriage) is not that smart.

 

Beauty, height, body and good genes will always be number one. I'm pretty sure the women I know, the women I talk to and even the women we see on LS would not find a 5'4'' man to be more attractive than a 6'2'' man.

 

Unless the guy is Tom Cruise.

 

As for women and men looking for other things beyond beauty when intereted in marriage, well, you are not going to exactly jump into something without making a profit out of it, are ya?

 

 

Great list of anecdotal evidence. You want me to provide one where attractions levels are dissimilar in couples? I thought you didn't dabble in empirical analysis.

[brainygirl]

Sounds like green, doesn't it?

[Els]

I notice that people who believe in leagues, at least on LS, are the ones who struggle the most with self-esteem issues and with establishing long-term relationships. Honestly, I think it's because their priorities are skewed. Their approach to attraction isn't really about finding a compatible partner, sharing their life with someone, establishing a healthy relationship. It's all about proving their value to the world. I think some of the posters here think the "hotness" factor of their dates, gf-bf, etc, is linked to their social status, much like a job, a car or clothes. Basically, they approach partners as accessories.

 

I just can't figure out which comes first: the self-esteem issue or the belief that there is some kind of "universal beauty contest" they have to win.

 

I completely, completely agree with this.