TheShyIntrovert Posted November 5, 2010 Posted November 5, 2010 I'm hearing a lot about nice guys finishing last. 9 times out of 10 a "nice guy" is someone who bends over backwards for a potential date, doing favors for them, doing "nice" things but never asking them out or doing anything that implies they want anything other then friendship. I have to admit I've done it too and it does not work. Now I hear a bunch of bull from alpha male dating tips that you just have to treat her more like an object and then she will be yours. Next time you see her engage with more physical contact. If she freaks out then you are just an ugly chud, it is not that you are doing anything wrong. Seriously, do people believe this crap? The issue with the nice guy routine is the guy is NOT nice or charming, he is being sad, pathetic, and desperate. I don't think it is a problem only men deal with I have had some experiences where woman tried way to hard and it felt smothering. Ok the "nice guys" don't need to stop being nice. They just need to be more assertive and ask out the girl to a date, and stop doing rejection free activities like study dates over coffee, driving her places because her car is in the shop, being her designated driver because she wants to get drunk and flirt with a bunch of drunk guys at a party etc.
seekandfind Posted November 5, 2010 Posted November 5, 2010 My friend gave me some really good advice once. It's super simple, but it applies to almost everything. In three words: BE THE MAN. What does that mean you ask? Well, if a girl you just met said she was too busy this week to go out, and gave no mention or hint of possibly rescheduling for next week, what would the MAN do? Call her again next week, and most likely get rejected? NOPE! He would be talking to the next girl. Would the MAN waste his time and energy texting her everyday, even if she doesn't respond back very fast and isn't holding a very interesting conversation (short boring responses)? NOPE! He is an active guy, he has a lot going on. He might text her again in a few days, and maybe this time she will actually be engaging. And he will make a direct point to ask her out. And if she says no, it's all good. NEXT! When the MAN is going to be at the same party as this girl that he is interested in, how does he behave? Does he follow her around the entire time, hoping something will happen? NOPE! He casually lets his presence be known, maybe says a quick "Hi" to her upon arrival, and then goes and has fun with all his friends, waiting for a opportune time to do some work. And he is very nonchalant, having a great time with his friends at the party, and she will see this. Then when he does talk to her, she will have a higher chance of being interested. Basically, being the MAN will lead to a more fulfilling life, doing more fun things, meeting more attractive women, being more successful. So friends, when you wake up in the morning, ask your self one simple question: What would the MAN do?
donnamaybe Posted November 5, 2010 Posted November 5, 2010 Good posts. Thank you for giving some male perspectives on this "nice guy" issue. I have a VERY nice guy at home, but he also is the kind who would NEVER take any crap off of a woman, or anyone else for that matter. I'm nice to him and do things for him; he does the same for me. It's called a "healthy relationship." Asking "how high?" when a gal says "jump" doesn't mean you're a nice guy. It means you're a whimp.
GorillaTheater Posted November 5, 2010 Posted November 5, 2010 Good posts. Thank you for giving some male perspectives on this "nice guy" issue. I have a VERY nice guy at home, but he also is the kind who would NEVER take any crap off of a woman, or anyone else for that matter. I'm nice to him and do things for him; he does the same for me. It's called a "healthy relationship." Asking "how high?" when a gal says "jump" doesn't mean you're a nice guy. It means you're a whimp. Yeah, male and female definitions of a Nice Guy tend to differ radically. The alpha/bad boy builds and maintains attraction. The beta/nice guy makes the woman feel safe and secure. Since women need both, men need both traits, finding that right balance between alpha and beta.
Insanitylater Posted November 5, 2010 Posted November 5, 2010 None of this thread is what in my mind refers to a nice guy. Everyone always gives the definition as if the guy is a wimp or lets people walk all over him. Nice in my mind = calling her when you say so not pretending to be busy not lying treating her with respect etc etc You can treat her good, and she still goes after the ahole. Plain and simple, if you treat her nice and respectful from the start, she will usually take advantage of that one way or another.
carhill Posted November 5, 2010 Posted November 5, 2010 (edited) Yeah, I recall my defining moment, shortly before getting married, when I was taking care of my then future wife, to the exclusion of all else, after she had serious and painful surgery. I think the beginning of the end was right there. Looking back, the clear lack of appreciation or acknowledgment on her part portended the future of our M. Too bad I wasn't clear back then on what a nice guy was and wasn't. Yup. Well, we all learn in our own good time. OP, good points. Props. Especially the last paragraph. Edited November 5, 2010 by carhill
Nemicron Posted November 5, 2010 Posted November 5, 2010 You folks apparently haven't really been reading the other threads. First of all, it really doesn't have to do with being assertive. If you've noticed in the other threads its either Girls bashing guys because they dont understand and then guys bashing girls because they dont understand. Bottom line is either way, people as a whole need to stop playing games. I've seen women on this site even playing them. " Oh I dumped a guy and totally smashed his heart. But oh I'm gonna keep calling him and torment him more " OR even the guys, " oh I'm just out to get laid and what not. Or the other types that just want sympathy for their lives going to crap. A real nice guy isn't a stalker or a serial killer. They are respectful and understanding and caring And honest to a fault. And I think that being that way actually either spooks alot of women. Or maybe its because its not much of a challenge.
Eeyore79 Posted November 5, 2010 Posted November 5, 2010 Nice in my mind = calling her when you say so not pretending to be busy not lying treating her with respect etc etc Being nice does not entitle you to have a girlfriend; it merely means you behave like a decent human being. You still have to be attractive for a girl to want to date you. Good looks are attractive - or, failing that, confidence and charisma are attractive. Niceness alone isn't going to get you anywhere.
Untouchable_Fire Posted November 5, 2010 Posted November 5, 2010 Ok the "nice guys" don't need to stop being nice. They just need to be more assertive and ask out the girl to a date, and stop doing rejection free activities like study dates over coffee, driving her places because her car is in the shop, being her designated driver because she wants to get drunk and flirt with a bunch of drunk guys at a party etc. It is not that simple. The problem is more about how you carry yourself and the energy you project to these women. Women can't tell whether confidence comes from a good place or a bad one, similarly they can't tell why your not confident. Frankly... most guys don't know why they are that way either... so the answer is to act confident in everything you do... even when your not. Fake confidence is less attractive, but it's still better than showing weakness. Get it?
donnamaybe Posted November 5, 2010 Posted November 5, 2010 Plain and simple, if you treat her nice and respectful from the start, she will usually take advantage of that one way or another.And there's yer trouble. Either you THINK you're treating her nice when, in reality, you're behaving like a whimp... OR You're hanging out with some pretty rotten females.
Untouchable_Fire Posted November 5, 2010 Posted November 5, 2010 Being nice does not entitle you to have a girlfriend; it merely means you behave like a decent human being. You still have to be attractive for a girl to want to date you. Good looks are attractive - or, failing that, confidence and charisma are attractive. Niceness alone isn't going to get you anywhere. I disagree. I think love is one the few things all people are entitled to... I don't like the attitude that if your not good looking enough you don't deserve to be loved. Nor should you need charisma, confidence... or whatever.
donnamaybe Posted November 5, 2010 Posted November 5, 2010 I disagree. I think love is one the few things all people are entitled to... I don't like the attitude that if your not good looking enough you don't deserve to be loved. Nor should you need charisma, confidence... or whatever. Well, anyone IS more attractive when they are confident. I've said many times on LS that I've met guys who, at first glance, didn't do a thing for me and I would NEVER have been interested EXCEPT they were confident (which isn't to say they were arrogant-just not all self conscious and nervous) and had a great sense of humor.
Nemicron Posted November 5, 2010 Posted November 5, 2010 YEa I agree that is a bad way of thinking about it. I disagree. I think love is one the few things all people are entitled to... I don't like the attitude that if your not good looking enough you don't deserve to be loved. Nor should you need charisma, confidence... or whatever.
Eeyore79 Posted November 5, 2010 Posted November 5, 2010 I disagree. I think love is one the few things all people are entitled to... I don't like the attitude that if your not good looking enough you don't deserve to be loved. Nor should you need charisma, confidence... or whatever. Nobody said you have to be good looking for someone to love you, but you have to have at least something going for you in order for women to find you attractive. If you're handsome, women will fall over themselves to date you. If you're not handsome, women will still fall over themselves to date you if you're cool, funny, charming, confident, etc. If you're not offering either looks or personality, don't be surprised when women don't generally find you attractive. There will of course be the odd woman who likes you, but she might prove pretty hard to find - to have mass market appeal you either have to have looks or personality.
deebeechrisyo Posted November 5, 2010 Posted November 5, 2010 That said, keep in mind that boredom is a moment killer. Always be talking because a woman’s interest in you sways: it’s always going up or down. It’s your job to be making it go up. Always be funny and confident to keep things interesting. If that was true, than the half of the population that are introverts would always be single. On another note, I've learned to avoid the women who claim that they hate to be bored, not necessarily because it's a red flag but they just don't really mesh with my personality.
Surrealist Posted November 5, 2010 Posted November 5, 2010 This thread hasn't clarified the nice guy at all. InsanityLater fortunately did. If a guy is a doormat that doesn't translate to being nice in any capacity, everyone else by default are jerks / a-holes.
AD1980 Posted November 5, 2010 Posted November 5, 2010 If that was true, than the half of the population that are introverts would always be single. On another note, I've learned to avoid the women who claim that they hate to be bored, not necessarily because it's a red flag but they just don't really mesh with my personality. Amen..Any women who needs to be constantly "entertained" is not for me Theres boring slow paced moments in life in general its now always one big show or party even in relationships..
Untouchable_Fire Posted November 5, 2010 Posted November 5, 2010 Well, anyone IS more attractive when they are confident. I've said many times on LS that I've met guys who, at first glance, didn't do a thing for me and I would NEVER have been interested EXCEPT they were confident (which isn't to say they were arrogant-just not all self conscious and nervous) and had a great sense of humor. If a woman is all self conscious and nervous around me I take that as a bit of a compliment. Having one act all confident when she isn't I don't like. It feels dishonest. So... If I don't have to bow down and worship at the alter of confidence... why does everyone else? Confidence is nice... but there are tons of other things I look for in a mate. Nobody said you have to be good looking for someone to love you, but you have to have at least something going for you in order for women to find you attractive. If you're handsome, women will fall over themselves to date you. If you're not handsome, women will still fall over themselves to date you if you're cool, funny, charming, confident, etc. If you're not offering either looks or personality, don't be surprised when women don't generally find you attractive. There will of course be the odd woman who likes you, but she might prove pretty hard to find - to have mass market appeal you either have to have looks or personality. I agree with most of what your saying... it's just I do think people are entitled to find love. Man or woman, fat or think, tall or short, smart or dumb... ect. We all have the right to find love. That means we can't really look at someone and say... your unlovable because your not cool or attractive. The reality is that if your uncool and unattractive... stop trying to date people who are those things. Why not find love with someone similar to yourself? That's what I would do.
Eeyore79 Posted November 6, 2010 Posted November 6, 2010 We all have the right to find love. The reality is that if your uncool and unattractive... stop trying to date people who are those things. Why not find love with someone similar to yourself? This is the crux of the matter. There are guys who perhaps don't have the qualities which women consider to be generally attractive, who complain that women aren't interested in them - what they mean is the majority of women (especially the hottest ones) aren't interested. I'm sure there are a number of less attractive women who'd be only too happy to date these guys, but the guys don't want them - they all want the hot chick, and they think that being nice entitles them to have her... because she said she wanted a nice guy, right? The hot chick then complains that hot guys treat her like crap, and the nice guy gets annoyed because he would treat her like gold but she won't date him. So he assumes the hot chick is talking a load of bull when she says she wants a nice guy, because he's a nice guy and she doesn't want him! The thing is, though, when she says she wants a "nice" guy, what she means is she wants a "nice, attractive" guy. If you're not attractive to her in one way or another, it's irrelevant how nice you are. When I say "attractive", I don't mean attractive by some objective standard - I mean you have to be attractive to the person you're aiming at, and some people standards are lower than others. There's someone for everyone, and everyone deserves love... but if you're an less attractive man, it's probably going to be a less attractive woman who's interested in you. If you keep aiming too high, you're probably going to be disappointed.
Lorelai Posted November 6, 2010 Posted November 6, 2010 There are users and doormats in both genders. They seem to manage to find each other with alarming regularity. A truly nice person of either gender doesn't play games. If your motivation in doing whatever you do when you date someone is to "get something" -- whether it's to get a relationship, get them in bed, get their wallets.... instead of being genuinely what you *want* to do, it's a problem. Best advice I can give is to be genuine, and to treat others as you'd like to be treated. Of course, I'm still single, so maybe that advice isn't that great. But I'm not being used or using someone else either.
runner Posted November 6, 2010 Posted November 6, 2010 My friend gave me some really good advice once. It's super simple, but it applies to almost everything. In three words: BE THE MAN. What does that mean you ask? Well, if a girl you just met said she was too busy this week to go out, and gave no mention or hint of possibly rescheduling for next week, what would the MAN do? Call her again next week, and most likely get rejected? NOPE! He would be talking to the next girl. Would the MAN waste his time and energy texting her everyday, even if she doesn't respond back very fast and isn't holding a very interesting conversation (short boring responses)? NOPE! He is an active guy, he has a lot going on. He might text her again in a few days, and maybe this time she will actually be engaging. And he will make a direct point to ask her out. And if she says no, it's all good. NEXT! When the MAN is going to be at the same party as this girl that he is interested in, how does he behave? Does he follow her around the entire time, hoping something will happen? NOPE! He casually lets his presence be known, maybe says a quick "Hi" to her upon arrival, and then goes and has fun with all his friends, waiting for a opportune time to do some work. And he is very nonchalant, having a great time with his friends at the party, and she will see this. Then when he does talk to her, she will have a higher chance of being interested. Basically, being the MAN will lead to a more fulfilling life, doing more fun things, meeting more attractive women, being more successful. So friends, when you wake up in the morning, ask your self one simple question: What would the MAN do? he might say, "stay thirsty my friends."
Insanitylater Posted November 6, 2010 Posted November 6, 2010 Being nice does not entitle you to have a girlfriend Show me where I typed that. No one is saying it entitles you to anything. The point I'm making is that women say they want a guy to respect them, treat them maturely, etc etc, (in other words nice) if you do that they dont want you, but if you brush them off, cancel, do the typical I'm too busy for you, too good for you scenario, than they come running. Thats what my beef is.
carhill Posted November 6, 2010 Posted November 6, 2010 Yes, it is assigning an emotional memory to the reality of *some* women's words and actions not even remotely matching up which causes *some* good men inordinate frustration and bitterness. Having been one of them, I look back now at all the bullets I dodged and wonder why I beat myself up so much over it 'Men are jerks. I never meet a nice guy. You know, my last boyfriend did xxxx and xxx' 'Well, I hope you find what you're looking for'. (Exit as quickly as possible) Do not see such a potential as an 'opportunity'. It isn't, except for pain and suffering. Just leave it alone
lululucy Posted November 6, 2010 Posted November 6, 2010 Show me where I typed that. No one is saying it entitles you to anything. The point I'm making is that women say they want a guy to respect them, treat them maturely, etc etc, (in other words nice) if you do that they dont want you, but if you brush them off, cancel, do the typical I'm too busy for you, too good for you scenario, than they come running. Thats what my beef is. A lot of guys do the same thing -- if you're too available, take their calls all the time and agree to any date they suggest, the attention soon wanes. It isn't exclusive to the female gender.
Insanitylater Posted November 6, 2010 Posted November 6, 2010 A lot of guys do the same thing -- if you're too available, take their calls all the time and agree to any date they suggest, the attention soon wanes. It isn't exclusive to the female gender. YES we all know that both sexes do it. When I start dating guys I will complain about them.
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