Insanitylater Posted November 5, 2010 Posted November 5, 2010 In response to the recent "being sweet guy" post, I have decided to set the record straight. When we say a good guy, or nice guy, in reality it means being respectful, and mature. Saying nice, or sweet is not the way to approach it because people can tear that apart too easily. They will say well you need more confidence, or you need to man-up. If you look at the sweet guy post you can see how the majority views the OP as the timid weakling that gets sand kicked in his face, as the alpha male body builder gets the girl. That is the scenario most women have in their mind when they reply to any nice guy post. They automatically assume that the guy must be the problem. So lets change it, and label it as mature and respectful. This opens a whole new reality in the discussion. Now the posters dont have the ammo to reply with, as they did when you say you are nice or sweet. And most guys will agree with me, that there are a lot of women that shy away from mature, respectful men in dating. A lot of women like jerks. The reason they like jerks is because they can read jerks. They know what a jerk wants, they know how the game is played, the know the outcome. They feel safe in that type of reality. Look at how younger women will date, have fun, party, etc, than after so many years, she decides to put that behind her, grow up and find a good man to marry and have a family with. If that same type of good guy approached her years earlier, she would have blown him off because he didnt fit her situation at the time. Theres a lot of women that dont like mature respectful guys because it scares them. They dont know how to act with them. It also can cause the women to look at herself and deal with her own relationship issues, were as dating the jerk allows her to blame everything on him.
JungleLover Posted November 5, 2010 Posted November 5, 2010 (edited) I think what is throwing most "nice guys" off is the fact that they think that being sweet, nice, respectful, and mature equals attractiveness. They think that just because they have all of the above qualities that women should want them. No offense to the so said nice guys but they don't understand what it is to be attractive. Being nice and respectful are great virtues as human beings but that does not equate to being attractive. These traits are great bonuses but men just have trouble understanding this. Because you give back rubs, tell her how beautiful she is, and will never cheat on her, this does not automatically mean you should get the girl. What also throw many men for a loop is that they take what women say literally too often and they cannot adjust their thinking to interpret what women actually mean. Men tend too stick to one-dimensional thinking when it comes to women. If a woman says "why can't I find a nice guy." Men look up the word nice in the dictionary and say "hey, I fit that description but why is she rejecting me all of the time. I am nice." When women say they want a nice guy, they simply want men who they are attracted to and who is attracted to them. Whatever traits she is attracted to specifically is purely subjective. Edited November 5, 2010 by JungleLover
Author Insanitylater Posted November 5, 2010 Author Posted November 5, 2010 take what women say literally too often and they cannot adjust their thinking to interpret what women actually mean. Men tend too stick to one-dimensional thinking when it comes to women. LOL and of course its the guys fault again for not being able to figure her out.
GoodOnPaper Posted November 5, 2010 Posted November 5, 2010 No offense to the so said nice guys but they don't understand what it is to be attractive. No kidding . . . to this day, I am stunned that I somehow managed to reproduce . . . I like the OP's positive spin. The thing is, the "nice guy's" social ineptness is mixed in with some authentic values that are worth preserving. The key is to get through those brutal early dating (or lack-of-dating) years with some semblance of sanity and self-esteem. There are several ways to go off the deep end -- become so bitter that you're your own worst enemy, jump into a relationship with the first woman who shows an interest even if you aren't that attracted to her, etc. I don't think the "nice guy" should sit around waiting for the party girls to mature and change their tastes in men, but at the same time he needs to be patient and give himself a chance to be a late bloomer.
Sarah1977 Posted November 5, 2010 Posted November 5, 2010 I think what is throwing most "nice guys" off is the fact that they think that being sweet, nice, respectful, and mature equals attractiveness. They think that just because they have all of the above qualities that women should want them. See, I think a truly nice person is that way because he feels good about himself and likes to make other people feel good as well. Guys that think if I do X, Y, Z, I am OWED a girlfriend aren't nice. They are just as manipulative as a cocky jerk. The only difference is in technique. So called "Nice guys" buy you flowers and expect you'll fall all over them. Cocky guys will not call you and expect you'll fall all over them. BOTH are jerks, just wearing different clothing. A real nice guy does nice things to make you happy. Nothing more, nothing less. He doesn't do it expecting to be OWED anything later.
JungleLover Posted November 5, 2010 Posted November 5, 2010 LOL and of course its the guys fault again for not being able to figure her out. It really is. A small amount of men naturally get it. A fair amount of men figure it out, adjust and succeed in dating. While the "nice guy" sits sulking at home with light bulb never going on saying "why me?" Some of these guy will make kids and some won't. Maybe nature intends for it to be this way.
JungleLover Posted November 5, 2010 Posted November 5, 2010 See, I think a truly nice person is that way because he feels good about himself and likes to make other people feel good as well. Guys that think if I do X, Y, Z, I am OWED a girlfriend aren't nice. They are just as manipulative as a cocky jerk. The only difference is in technique. So called "Nice guys" buy you flowers and expect you'll fall all over them. Cocky guys will not call you and expect you'll fall all over them. BOTH are jerks, just wearing different clothing. A real nice guy does nice things to make you happy. Nothing more, nothing less. He doesn't do it expecting to be OWED anything later. I agree. There are nice guys who are truly nice and also truly attractive to women so they get women but then there is the so called nice guy who thinks just because he has good manners, his dating calendar should be full. It just doesn't work that way.
Author Insanitylater Posted November 5, 2010 Author Posted November 5, 2010 I agree. There are nice guys who are truly nice and also truly attractive to women so they get women but then there is the so called nice guy who thinks just because he has good manners, his dating calendar should be full. It just doesn't work that way. Once again leave it to women wo totally go off the rails into another subject. This thread isnt about being owed anything. Its about being respectful and treating a women the way she says she wants to be treated. But she still goes out with the jerk, only to come back crying, why cant I find a nice guy. Thats all it is. Women keep trying to manipulate the situation anytime a guy posts anything close to this subject. look at how many threads there are on this site about guys being with jerks, and everyone replies telling her hes a jerk and to leave him, yet she keeps dating him, saying i love him so much. Thats what we are talking about. Most women need the guy to have a little bit of jerk in him or she will walk all over him. Its almost like she has no control over herself, so she needs enough of a jerk to keep her in place. Thats exactly what shows through in the earlier reply when one of the posters said the guy needs to figure out the girls mind and what shes thinking. In other words, " as a woman I am incapable of communicating clearly, and telling you exactly what I want, so as a man, I need you to be able to interpret my constantly changing moods, emotions, and drama, or else it will steamroll you on its way to the next closest guy. So you as a guy, need to keep me in line and have enough of an attitude to keep me in check"
Nemicron Posted November 5, 2010 Posted November 5, 2010 See thats what I've been trying to say also. My experience was that alot of women screw their lives up in their teens and 20's But suddenly they realize that want to settle down and then they stop playing the games. Thank you. Somone else said it better then I did.
Nemicron Posted November 5, 2010 Posted November 5, 2010 And also just because alot of guys think in 1 dimension. Doesn't mean you should play games instead. Its not hard to be clear. relationships shouldnt be about having to have a magic decoder ring. For example. I have this friend of mine that she just wants F-buddies. Now I've been her friend for 6 years or so. So I know her pretty well. But recently she got super upset when one of her f-buddies wouldn't pay any attention to her. So she got all upset and everything. I asked her why she was getting so upset unless she thought of this dude as a BF. She jumps up and down swearing that he's not a BF they are just friends. But to me I think anyone that gets upset about their F-buddy not paying and attention to them has feelings. Specially the way she acted. And how she responded to it. So then for the next week or so she was telling me that she wanted me and everything. I didn't really pay much attention to it because I know it was just because she didn't have anyone else around. And sure enough hen the guy finally said he was sorry. Suddenly the I love you's and crap disappeared.
Green Posted November 5, 2010 Posted November 5, 2010 look being respectful and paying for dinner and holding a door open isn't going to automaticly get you a girlfriend. To complain about how you don't currently have a gf or havn't for a long time is NOT respectful or mature. Women often dump/reject or refuse to continue seeing a guy in a non confrontational way. You're a great/nice <insert posotive adjective here> guy but I can't see you anymore. Then the guy harps on what ever the woman said "I'm a nice guy that must be why she doesn't want me" NO First you are a very imature/insecure guy if you can't handle being dumped/rejected by women. It really doesn't mean anything bad about you if a woman dumps you. What is bad is if you FEEL SORRY FOR YOURSELF and that is what these so called "nice guys" do. Feeling sorry for yourself helps nothing. Yes Exciting bad boys who just want to use a woman up and throw her away are a thrill for a woman. Yes boring guys who just want to take things slow and start off just as friends and slowly and timidly progress into something are boring to most women.... Ur goal isn't to be apealing to the largest number of women. your goal is to be the best you that you can be.... end of story. grow some balls, START TRYING, and stop feeling sorry for yourself
carhill Posted November 5, 2010 Posted November 5, 2010 OP, having had some experience with this, and the luxury of talking about it with women over the years, I think your OP raises some important issues. One, IME seldom discussed on LS, is the dynamic of predictability and its manifestations as indicators, healthy indicators, of the psychology of the individual. This predictability can be seen as two-fold: One, the woman, especially with past experience, as you said, 'knows' the jerk and can handle his behaviors and psychology. He's predictable. She knows what he 'wants' and how he 'gets it'. Generally, for most women, the first experiences with the opposite sex, whether it be the lecherous uncle Bob or the clammy-handed pimple-face puberty boy diddling her, are with the most bold, aggressive, and least respectful of the male gender. She has vast experience with this type. Now, although her experiences with a mature and respectful guy *may* be less, there's predictability there too. If she's had *any* positive male role models, she immediately recognizes the safe haven of mature, respectful guy. He's her rest stop, a nice place to go potty and grab a drink of validation before heading back out onto the road of adventure and 'life'; he provides her the same positive energy as her male role model and, like the role model, he does it selflessly and without expectation. You'll note the expectation part, since many women use the 'he expects me to be attracted to him or like him because he's 'nice' to me' as a description of a 'not nice' guy. Of course, mature, respectful guy has no such expectations. He gives freely of himself to the world around him and genuinely cares for people. Why doesn't the lady fall for mature respectful guy? Complex. My current belief, supported by what women have told me directly and what I've observed in my 51 on this rock, is *some* do. Those who don't, even with attraction and chemistry, essentially don't feel worthy of that kind of health or don't find the compatibility within themselves to form a long-lasting bond. I believe, in some cases, they really *want* to, cognitively, but it just won't 'take' at the instinctive and elemental levels necessary to stay the course in life. I was married for a decade to such a person. Sometimes, what we want and what we feel or are attracted to doesn't match up, and that's really good information. There is no 'right' and 'wrong' about who these people are or who they are attracted to or bond with, rather *compatibility*. So, when I meet a woman who says she *wants* a mature respectful guy and sense she is not attracted to such a man, by the preponderance of her words and actions, I nod my head knowingly and bid her fond farewell on her journey in life. We all have our path.
JungleLover Posted November 5, 2010 Posted November 5, 2010 (edited) Yes Exciting bad boys who just want to use a woman up and throw her away are a thrill for a woman. Yes boring guys who just want to take things slow and start off just as friends and slowly and timidly progress into something are boring to most women.... Ur goal isn't to be apealing to the largest number of women. your goal is to be the best you that you can be.... end of story. grow some balls, START TRYING, and stop feeling sorry for yourself First of all, her is the shocker- I am a guy! Just because I am not jumping on the side of these whiny, sensitive dudes I see how it can be confusing. These guys just babble on these sites and in real life how the women just won't love them because they like jerks. Suck it up and learn how to get some women and stop whining. We got the front page of this forum just bringing these whiny girly-type dudes out here feeling sorry for themselves and it is pathetic. I am not going to pat you guys on the back for this whining. It is this same sort of behavior and frustration that you show here that is not getting you girlfriends. If you think this sort of attitude is not showing in your behavior and on dates with women then you will be left in the dark forever. Green, you said it best, man. Grow some balls and stop feeling sorry for your self and coming to these forums crying on these women shoulders and picketing them. Stop ranting and jumping down women throats because they feel a natural attraction to certain types of men. It won't change a thing. Many of these nice, sweet guys post and you can just see how they are looking to be patted on the head or approved by the female members. Where is my freakin barf bag!? Just man up and learn how to attract a woman or two. So what, some of them like jerks. So. You are not going to whine and cry it out of them. We got a f****** river flowing here. If you can't figure out how to attract them even with help then nature has a place for you. Your genes don't get passed on so I guess that means less whiners in the world's future. Geesh. Edited November 5, 2010 by JungleLover
JungleLover Posted November 5, 2010 Posted November 5, 2010 So, when I meet a woman who says she *wants* a mature respectful guy and sense she is not attracted to such a man, by the preponderance of her words and actions, I nod my head knowingly and bid her fond farewell on her journey in life. We all have our path. Exactly what I said above. Great post, carhill. This is a great statement how you have to not take women so literally and learn how to sense what she truly wants through other words and actions and you take that all into consideration. This concept that I quoted from you above will simply go over the so called nice guys' head forever.
Mike B. Posted November 5, 2010 Posted November 5, 2010 See thats what I've been trying to say also. My experience was that alot of women screw their lives up in their teens and 20's But suddenly they realize that want to settle down and then they stop playing the games. Thank you. Somone else said it better then I did. Sorry, to break the bad news to you, my friend. That sort of behavior doesn't disappear in the 30s, 40s, and 50s. I can assure you that it is alive and strong in these ages.
lululucy Posted November 5, 2010 Posted November 5, 2010 I am not going to pat you guys on the back for this whining. It is this same sort of behavior and frustration that you show here that is not getting you girlfriends. If you think this sort of attitude is not showing in your behavior and on dates with women then you will be left in the dark forever.... Just man up and learn how to attract a woman or two. So what, some of them like jerks. So. You are not going to whine and cry it out of them. We got a f****** river flowing here. If you can't figure out how to attract them even with help then nature has a place for you. Your genes don't get passed on so I guess that means less whiners in the world's future. Geesh. A-freakin'-men. I don't want a boring guy who will just tell me I'm pretty and dote on me day in and day out. I want a guy who will keep me interested, make me have to work for his attention sometimes -- isn't the chase supposed to be the most fun part of a relationship? If that's gone before the relationship even begins, it ain't going anywhere. The guy I settle down with has to have nice qualities, of course, but like hell I'm going to be with someone who just buys me flowers all the time and cries about their feelings. I'm the girl, I'm supposed to do that stuff.
Nemicron Posted November 5, 2010 Posted November 5, 2010 You guys really dont get it. There are the whiney type yes. But thats not what any of this is about. instead of being arrogant about it and stubborn. You should stop and listen.
Cee Posted November 5, 2010 Posted November 5, 2010 Some women love players and jerks because they equate love with longing, intensity, and drama. It's akin to an addiction to wanting. Or at least that's how it was for me. I'm steering myself in a healthier direction, but old habits are hard to break.
lululucy Posted November 5, 2010 Posted November 5, 2010 You guys really dont get it. There are the whiney type yes. But thats not what any of this is about. instead of being arrogant about it and stubborn. You should stop and listen. I'm not being arrogant or stubborn. I am just agreeing that these are the reasons women don't want nice guys by the usual definition. The definition by the OP is great and spot on but I think the point is that a lot of people on LS today have been saying that their main problem is that they are a nice guy when in reality the posts reveal a lot of "woe is me" and "why don't women love me".
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