Psychological Phases Following DDay

[OWoman]

On another thread, this response:

 

Do you know BS CAN go through two psychological phases following DDAY?

 

One is as you stated: If only I had been x,y,z, this wouldn't have happened. Self-blame is a protective mechanism during PTSD; it is an effort to control out of control emotions. What do we seek to initially control? Ourselves. I think you made a very valid point here.

 

The other is blaming the OW. It sheilds us from hating the object of our love and trust, our WS, until we are strong enough to confront them.

 

made me think: Is it one or the other? One, and then another? What other "blame" reactions might spontaneously occur? What determines which is more likely to be the immediate response of a BS following DDay?

 

Of friends that I know that have been BSs, the "self-blame" option seemed to kick in like clockwork - they immediately looked within themselves for some reason for their WS to have engaged in an A.

 

I can also understand the need to project the blame externally onto some outside threat (the OW / OM) to protect the self-loved one dyad, although I've not witnessed that among friends who've been BSs. (Perhaps they vented elsewhere, knowing my politics on that...)

 

I would have thought it would have been easier to project the blame outward (the OW / OM) instead of inward (the self), particularly where the BS had robust self-esteem before DDay - but this doesn't appear to be the case (or at least, not reliably enough to be a predictor). So, if some BSs go straight to the "blame OW / OM" stage and not first through some "self-blame" stage, what protects them against the "self-blame" stage? Or is it obligatory, and every BS must go through it - if not immediately, then at some stage?

 

Does anyone have any experience, or has anyone read or witnessed anything, that might shed some light on that?

[PegNosePete]

Of friends that I know that have been BSs, the "self-blame" option seemed to kick in like clockwork - they immediately looked within themselves for some reason for their WS to have engaged in an A.

Yep, I did this. For all of about 10 minutes.

 

So, if some BSs go straight to the "blame OW / OM" stage and not first through some "self-blame" stage, what protects them against the "self-blame" stage? Or is it obligatory, and every BS must go through it - if not immediately, then at some stage?

You seem to be missing a phase. The phase of blaming the WS. This is after all, where the blame truly lies. I never blamed the OM because he is not the one who promised to stick with me through thick and thin, in sickness and in health, til death do us part. That was my STBX, and she gets 100% of the blame for cheating on me. After my 10 minutes of self-blame, I went straight to this phase and have stayed there ever since.

 

True I wouldn't exactly be mates with the OM, in fact I wouldn't lift a finger to save him from the Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal without an order signed in triplicate, sent in, sent back, queried, lost, found, subjected to public enquiry, lost again, and finally buried in soft peat for three months and recycled as firelighters. He is a d*ck and an ********* who f*cks other people's wives. But that's what (some) single guys do, they hit on anything with more than one X chromosome. I don't blame him for what happened because it was entirely my STBX's responsibility to tell him to F*CK RIGHT OFF.

[Owl]

I can't say that I ever truly went through the "self-blame" phase.

 

I know my self -esteem tanked...and I did a ton of introspection, trying to find what it was I did that could have led to/caused her to cheat.

 

But...there wasn't anything. I realized pretty quickly that it wasn't anything that I did. There were circumstances going on that contributed to her choice....but even those things were things that I had been trying to address prior to her EA.

 

So in my case, I blamed her and I blamed OM. I didn't (and still don't) accept the blame for her cheating. Nor do I see where I truly "contributed to the poor state of the marriage that led to her cheating" that we sometimes see discussed. On the contrary...I'd been trying to work on those things well BEFORE it got to that point.

 

But in my case, I pretty much jumped straight into blaming my wife and OM both for their parts in the affair.

[2sure]

I think the emotional patterns of a BS or anyone who has been through a traumatic crisis like a death, accident, loss ...are pretty similar and follow along the steps of grieving.

 

I would have to say that after my H's infidelity I wished it was because of something I did or didnt do...that would have been easier to fix, to control, to get over.

 

Blaming OW was for me, just a distraction I grew bored with.

[bentnotbroken]

I blamed myself as I knew I had contributed to some major problems. I started to pray and I was lead to some other things that I hadn't been aware of. Once those things were confirmed, I filed for divorce. I knew that I did nothing to make him cheat...it was him. I got counseling(we tried it together for a hot minute but he was deep in his fog), maintained the counseling to change some things within myself. I recognize now that the things that lead him to cheat were all his and he was responsible for those actions.

 

I am responsible for the actions to abuse and neglect of him and myself. I have worked really hard at changing those things. I speak my mind more, I refuse to be any body's doormat, and I refuse to stifle my emotions, feelings or thoughts to appease anyone. I will display those things without using abuse to do so.

 

I blamed her. She knew his family. She knew he had children and a wife(hell she had a husband and children), so yes I blame her for HER behavior not his. He didn't rape her. She willing had sex with him. She willing helped him lied (as he did her). She made a choice to insert herself into my life and remain there. But she is NOT, I repeat NOT, responsible for his actions. She only had the option of saying no, she did not initiate any of it.

 

He is and always will be the one who made the choice to not only abuse me, but to allow( and in some cases encourage)someone else to abuse me. He was the one who looked at my face daily. He was the one who looked me in the eye and lied.

[aeh]

For me, I never really blamed the OW. My husband said they both shared culpability in initiating it. I was looking at myself, feeling "less than" and insecure in so many ways. It is only recently that my H has admitted that it was she who pursued him. I have spent very little time blaming her though. The anger/hurt was all directed at my H and for whatever role I played in our relationship pre-A.

[YellowShark]

Didn't blame myself for her two affairs. I didn't blame the two different MM she had affairs with. I went directly to blaming my WS for her affairs. Especially since we did the couples therapy route after her first affair.

 

Even after 5 months of introspection I know now I did nothing that would have caused my EX to cheat. She simply turned out to be a cheater, who also cheated during her first marriage. (The things you learn in couples therapy... )

[TerryW]

In my case as a BS, I was already blaming myself for the shape our relationship was in. He acted like he was so great so I internalized that if he wasn't the problem then I was. My friends couldn't understand why on the outside I had it all but had such low self esteem. I blamed myself at first but later placed all the blade on him as having a character defect. I now see that we both contributed to making our marriage weak. I never gave the OW much blame just asked God to take care of it for me. I don't/won't know what she gets and I'm happy about that.

[Spark1111]

On another thread, this response:

 

 

 

made me think: Is it one or the other? One, and then another? What other "blame" reactions might spontaneously occur? What determines which is more likely to be the immediate response of a BS following DDay?

 

Of friends that I know that have been BSs, the "self-blame" option seemed to kick in like clockwork - they immediately looked within themselves for some reason for their WS to have engaged in an A.

 

I can also understand the need to project the blame externally onto some outside threat (the OW / OM) to protect the self-loved one dyad, although I've not witnessed that among friends who've been BSs. (Perhaps they vented elsewhere, knowing my politics on that...)

 

I would have thought it would have been easier to project the blame outward (the OW / OM) instead of inward (the self), particularly where the BS had robust self-esteem before DDay - but this doesn't appear to be the case (or at least, not reliably enough to be a predictor). So, if some BSs go straight to the "blame OW / OM" stage and not first through some "self-blame" stage, what protects them against the "self-blame" stage? Or is it obligatory, and every BS must go through it - if not immediately, then at some stage?

 

Does anyone have any experience, or has anyone read or witnessed anything, that might shed some light on that?

 

I think what protects them from the self-blame stage is blinding rage at the betrayal by a loved one. Afterall, rage is depression turned outward, Turn that depression inward, and one can be reduced to a non-functioning puddle.

 

It takes tremendous pain of possible loss of love, (in hindsight) to introspect and say, yeah, If I could have done a,b,c, better, than THIS PAIN of x,y,z would not have happened to me.

 

It is a self-protection from the pain...similiar to survivor's guilt. As stages of normalcy and sanity begin to return, most BS realize that there was nothing that they could have done differently. So slowly, the anger beins to shift to the WS and often, the AP.

 

It was friends and family, hearing of my H's affair, who asked if I wanted them to go march on her doorstep and give her a piece of their minds?

 

Heavens, no! But see how the clan can't deal with blaming the loved one? The immediately diflected blame to the OW.

 

WS tend not to communicate how unhappy they are, or what changes they would like to enact within the relationship. Like OWl, I begged him to go to counseling pre-affair and address some issues within the marriage.

 

He refused.

 

So, while my initial blink became "this truly has nothing to dow with me," it took a good long while for my emotions to catch up with my logical reasoning.

[OWoman]

Cognitively, it makes sense to me that the BS would blame the WS - after all, the person who promised to love and cherish them has betrayed their trust horribly. Emotionally, I can understand the need to externalise the blame, and want to project it onto the OW / OM, to protect the image one has of the loved one (especially if one is not yet sure whether or not to try to reconcile). And I've seen enough strong, self-assured people go through the "self-blame" thing to accept - and start to try to understand - that as a valid response, even though logic and rationality want to insist that it's misplaced (well, certainly in the friends I know IRL who went through that - I guess nothing is completely universal). But I must admit I'm puzzled that more people with robust self-esteem (pre-DDay; obviously DDay itself must implode self-esteem) don't project outward - whether anger toward the WS or blame at the OW / OM - rather than the internalised response.

 

I totally get Spark's point about anger being externalised depression / depression being anger turned inward; and I also get that the BS must go through a rush of a zillion different - and conflicting - emotions, so I'm not wanting to downplay or simplify that... But I do wonder, and those who've lived through it might have some inkling - why they responded one way or the other. Did their rational minds kick in and corral their emotions? Was the knock to their self-esteem so great that their normally-healthy self-esteem stopped functioning, and they saw themselves as they imagined their WS saw them? Had they been picking up subconsciously on how their WS had been treating them during the A, slowly eroding their self-esteem without them being aware? Were they just so angry that any other emotion was crowded out until the explosive anger had been sufficiently vented to allow for some kind of introspection / reflection / different emotion to surface?

 

I'm really not sure why I'm so puzzled by this. Perhaps because I've seen really good friends acting really out of character on making the discovery; perhaps because I've not been through something like a betrayal, and have no experience of my own to fall back on, and am trying to imagine how I might respond in such a situation; perhaps because it's more interesting than wondering what /whether to cook tonight... IDK. If it's becoming invasive or irritating, feel free to ignore...

[Mulberry]

I would think that the stages of grief would apply to discovering infidelity as they would any sort of loss.

 

having the anger stage directed almost wholly at the OP is an interesting perspective, and one that is certainly food for thought

 

it actually resonates a bit with me because of a blog I follow (that I've been reading for years) and how it's now focused on the discovery of infidelity and the dissolution of their marriage.

 

the most recent post talks about trust, but the comments are what have me thinking today, and this thread brought it to mind...very angry towards the OW, with an almost 'men can't help themselves, but women should be held to a higher standard' mentality. Reverse sexism perhaps?

 

morethanaminivanmom. blogspot .com

[Owl]

I'm really not sure why I'm so puzzled by this. Perhaps because I've seen really good friends acting really out of character on making the discovery; perhaps because I've not been through something like a betrayal, and have no experience of my own to fall back on, and am trying to imagine how I might respond in such a situation; perhaps because it's more interesting than wondering what /whether to cook tonight... IDK. If it's becoming invasive or irritating, feel free to ignore...

 

I can completely believe it.

 

I'm a very self-assured, self-confidant (sometimes cocky), highly intelligent and self-sufficient man. I've been through some seriously bad stuff in my life...dealt with it, and came out of it stronger as a result.

 

I'm the guy who can fix your computer one minute, then teach a martial arts class the next. Solo static line skydive with my sons, and cook my wife a gourmet meal that night. I can knit a sweater (really!), or be dropped in the back woods 50 miles from town with my ruck and be home in a couple of days.

 

I've survived a lot.

 

And I was a complete and total emotional basket case for 3 weeks post d-day. Seriously considered suicide. Total and complete loss of self-esteem and self worth. Depression and PTSD like you'd expect post-combat. I lost more than 25lbs during that same time frame because I couldn't eat, couldn't sleep, and couldn't stop from walking for miles and miles to wear off nervous energy.

 

Trust me...no matter how bad you might THINK being betrayed like this is...the actual being there is really, really difficult to comprehend until you are. I did NOTHING like I would have expected.

 

Now, in my own defense, I still took a lot of the right actions to fix things even in the light of all of that. And it worked, as evidenced by my marriage today.

 

But I'd tell you that it's almost impossible to predict how someone will handle betrayal of this magnitude until they have to deal with it. My best friends, my family...couldn't believe how this all impacted me at the time.

[OWoman]

But I'd tell you that it's almost impossible to predict how someone will handle betrayal of this magnitude until they have to deal with it. My best friends, my family...couldn't believe how this all impacted me at the time.

 

I'd believe this. I really don't know how I would respond in a situation like that. I suspect that I would also be surprised.

 

I'm a very self-assured, self-confidant (sometimes cocky), highly intelligent and self-sufficient man.

 

Surely not?

 

I'm the guy who can fix your computer one minute, then teach a martial arts class the next. Solo static line skydive with my sons, and cook my wife a gourmet meal that night. I can knit a sweater (really!)

 

Are you offering?

 

Seriously, though, I've seen one of the most capable women I know morph overnight from being the person you'd call ahead of Bruce Willis to save the world from a terrifying threat, to being a self-doubting shadow who put herself on a vicious diet (she had a gorgeous figure - no need to lose weight!) because she thought - hoped - that the reason her H had an A was because he found her "too porky" (the OW was as thin as a rake). As though by controlling her weight she could somehow control her life, her M, her errant H... even though their was nothing wrong with her weight or her life (her M and her errant H, hmmm...) I've seen a medical pioneer lose his nerve, questioning his judgment because he didn't spot the A coming - as though his "bravado" and "bluff" were the reason he lost touch with where his WW was at, neglecting her unspoken needs and "driving" her to the A... And I've seen a really devoted father question whether his close R with his kids was the cause of his W's A, because they - especially he - had isolated her from the family unit, causing him to withdraw and leaving his kids floundering even more... None of it pretty. Broken self-esteem is more shocking to behold than a mutilated corpse, IMO.

[Owl]

Surely not?

 

I know how hard this is to believe, given how modest I am here on LS...but true!!!! :D :D LOL!!!

 

Are you offering?

 

Nope...only met one woman so far who can pay my rates!

 

Seriously, though, I've seen one of the most capable women I know morph overnight from being the person you'd call ahead of Bruce Willis to save the world from a terrifying threat, to being a self-doubting shadow who put herself on a vicious diet (she had a gorgeous figure - no need to lose weight!) because she thought - hoped - that the reason her H had an A was because he found her "too porky" (the OW was as thin as a rake). As though by controlling her weight she could somehow control her life, her M, her errant H... even though their was nothing wrong with her weight or her life (her M and her errant H, hmmm...) I've seen a medical pioneer lose his nerve, questioning his judgment because he didn't spot the A coming - as though his "bravado" and "bluff" were the reason he lost touch with where his WW was at, neglecting her unspoken needs and "driving" her to the A... And I've seen a really devoted father question whether his close R with his kids was the cause of his W's A, because they - especially he - had isolated her from the family unit, causing him to withdraw and leaving his kids floundering even more... None of it pretty. Broken self-esteem is more shocking to behold than a mutilated corpse, IMO.

 

I've literally seen both...and while one may be more nauseating than the other, it's really hard to see someone that you truly thought of as an exteremely capable person broken down like that.

[seren]

I agree that no one knows how they will deal with a D Day until they live it. I had friends whose husband's had an A and saw the hurt first hand and thought to myself, I am so glad that H would never do that to me, to us. I so believed in him and in us. Even before the A I thought I must be doing something wrong for my husband to be the way he was. I thought he was stressed etc and his constant drip, drip comments were affecting my self esteem.

 

To the outside world I was super confident, efficient, the fixer of problems, a real no nonsense assertive woman. Yet, in my home I felt not good enough, after all, this was my lovely man, who I loved so very much. I had told my friends that I just couldn't take anymore and they suggested that perhaps there was someone else, yet even they couldn't see my H doing that. So when he told me he had been having an A I was floored, absolutely never saw it coming.

 

I felt sick to my stomach, huge gut wrenching pain that just wouldn't go away. I literally stopped functioning, hardly ate, lost almost 2 stone in weight, smoked my brains out and was just numb. I would never believe that anything could do this to me. I am a survivor of abuse and rape, have weathered cancer, homelessness and god knows what else, and survived with far less trauma than D Day. Why? because my husband was the only person who I let in, who had my heart and 100% trust. My Bad.

 

I felt huge rage and anger too, in all honesty, if OW had crossed my path in the first few days I think I might have lost the plot - and I am vehemently against physically attacking anyone, I wouldn't hurt anyone, it isn't my way. However, when she and I spoke, it was I who comforted her. No one understood that, my husband hates that I defended her and said she was not to blame.

 

I never, not for one moment blamed the OW for luring him away, no disrespect meant to her, but you couldn't have picked a more complete opposite of me if you had drawn a photokit. I didn't think it was because she was prettier or more intelligent, I didn't really understand why, until later. I was off work for 3 months with stress related Lupus flares that all but finished me off.

 

I think the blame game happens because the BS is in such a god awful place, especially if they never saw it coming, then they look to themselves as the reason, it is only in retrospect and after honest talking by both the WS and the BS that any sense of why can be understood. When I understood that my husband had PTSD after Iraq where friends had died in front of him, him feeling afraid and unable to fix my cancer scare that I finally understood that the issue was with my husband and his lack of esteem, that he looked to feel disgust at himself and so had the affair. To be frank, I felt sorry that he had not only hurt me and us, but also the OW, yet she knew he was married, as was she, so that was her boat to row.

 

It felt like a death, the stages of grief are very similar as it is a loss, albiet a very different one to bereavement, yet the mourning of what was is so very real. Dammed awful times, thank god they are now past.

[fltc]

He is a d*ck and an ********* who f*cks other people's wives. <snip> I don't blame him for what happened because it was entirely my STBX's responsibility to tell him to F*CK RIGHT OFF.

 

Exactly. Guys who f*ck other people's wives only f*ck those wives who are willing to be f*cked.

 

I believe the woman ALWAYS controls sex! Guys do NOT seduce women, they're allowed to think they did by women who are smart enough to make the man think he was successful.

 

 

NOTE: I suppose I'm one of those guys who f*cks other men's wives, once because she misled me about her status and once because her divorce was filed and was about to become final.

[melenkurion]

It's only been five weeks since D-day.

 

I can see I have some share of the blame for the "complacency" we fell into. So what? I don't see that I am any more to blame there than he is, and I am not cut up about it.

 

Mostly, at the moment, I blame the OM. He was supposedly a friend, so I really do feel it as a double betrayal. I loathe him more than I loathe anyone, or anything. I fervently wish unending pain, abject misery and utter ruination upon his life. I know in my head I need to move away from that, but there we are. I find that really difficult while they are now living together.

 

Yes, I'm utterly furious with WS: he was the one that really betrayed his commitment to me, after all. But, I still love the tosser, so I can't quite manage the sheer burning purity of hatred I feel to OM.

[Dexter Morgan]

I never went through any self-blame stage.

 

While no marriage is perfect, and we certainly both could have did things differently, nothing is so bad to warrant cheating.

 

It was a simple case of she'll never be satisified with the same guy forever. I feel sorry for her new man....and for her, cuz if she starts cheating....he'll clock her........again.

 

2 people are responsible for the state of their marriage. only one is in a decision to be an unscrupulous POS.

[wheelwright]

I can completely believe it.

 

I'm a very self-assured, self-confidant (sometimes cocky), highly intelligent and self-sufficient man. I've been through some seriously bad stuff in my life...dealt with it, and came out of it stronger as a result.

 

I'm the guy who can fix your computer one minute, then teach a martial arts class the next. Solo static line skydive with my sons, and cook my wife a gourmet meal that night. I can knit a sweater (really!), or be dropped in the back woods 50 miles from town with my ruck and be home in a couple of days.

 

I've survived a lot.

 

And I was a complete and total emotional basket case for 3 weeks post d-day. Seriously considered suicide. Total and complete loss of self-esteem and self worth. Depression and PTSD like you'd expect post-combat. I lost more than 25lbs during that same time frame because I couldn't eat, couldn't sleep, and couldn't stop from walking for miles and miles to wear off nervous energy.

 

Trust me...no matter how bad you might THINK being betrayed like this is...the actual being there is really, really difficult to comprehend until you are. I did NOTHING like I would have expected.

 

Now, in my own defense, I still took a lot of the right actions to fix things even in the light of all of that. And it worked, as evidenced by my marriage today.

 

But I'd tell you that it's almost impossible to predict how someone will handle betrayal of this magnitude until they have to deal with it. My best friends, my family...couldn't believe how this all impacted me at the time.

 

This was heart rending to read.

 

And I still don't get it.

 

My feeling still is your pain was about you more than you W's behaviour.

 

That's how I think about pain these days.

[wheelwright]

I agree that no one knows how they will deal with a D Day until they live it. I had friends whose husband's had an A and saw the hurt first hand and thought to myself, I am so glad that H would never do that to me, to us. I so believed in him and in us. Even before the A I thought I must be doing something wrong for my husband to be the way he was. I thought he was stressed etc and his constant drip, drip comments were affecting my self esteem.

 

To the outside world I was super confident, efficient, the fixer of problems, a real no nonsense assertive woman. Yet, in my home I felt not good enough, after all, this was my lovely man, who I loved so very much. I had told my friends that I just couldn't take anymore and they suggested that perhaps there was someone else, yet even they couldn't see my H doing that. So when he told me he had been having an A I was floored, absolutely never saw it coming.

 

I felt sick to my stomach, huge gut wrenching pain that just wouldn't go away. I literally stopped functioning, hardly ate, lost almost 2 stone in weight, smoked my brains out and was just numb. I would never believe that anything could do this to me. I am a survivor of abuse and rape, have weathered cancer, homelessness and god knows what else, and survived with far less trauma than D Day. Why? because my husband was the only person who I let in, who had my heart and 100% trust. My Bad.

 

I felt huge rage and anger too, in all honesty, if OW had crossed my path in the first few days I think I might have lost the plot - and I am vehemently against physically attacking anyone, I wouldn't hurt anyone, it isn't my way. However, when she and I spoke, it was I who comforted her. No one understood that, my husband hates that I defended her and said she was not to blame.

 

I never, not for one moment blamed the OW for luring him away, no disrespect meant to her, but you couldn't have picked a more complete opposite of me if you had drawn a photokit. I didn't think it was because she was prettier or more intelligent, I didn't really understand why, until later. I was off work for 3 months with stress related Lupus flares that all but finished me off.

 

I think the blame game happens because the BS is in such a god awful place, especially if they never saw it coming, then they look to themselves as the reason, it is only in retrospect and after honest talking by both the WS and the BS that any sense of why can be understood. When I understood that my husband had PTSD after Iraq where friends had died in front of him, him feeling afraid and unable to fix my cancer scare that I finally understood that the issue was with my husband and his lack of esteem, that he looked to feel disgust at himself and so had the affair. To be frank, I felt sorry that he had not only hurt me and us, but also the OW, yet she knew he was married, as was she, so that was her boat to row.

 

It felt like a death, the stages of grief are very similar as it is a loss, albiet a very different one to bereavement, yet the mourning of what was is so very real. Dammed awful times, thank god they are now past.

 

I thought this a beautiful post. Vulnerability and honesty breathe through it.

 

I also felt a grief like a death - when xMOM threw me over for his W.

 

I believe his BS would not have felt so bad towards me if she knew more. And that makes me feel bad.

 

But I could be wrong.

[Owl]

This was heart rending to read.

 

And I still don't get it.

 

My feeling still is your pain was about you more than you W's behaviour.

 

That's how I think about pain these days.

 

Her behavior was what caused my pain.

 

Her betrayal of our marriage was what "shattered my reality".

 

She was one of my pillars of support...and her actions (temporarily) removed her as part of that without warning, without cause.

 

I don't understand what's so hard to get?