People dont really know what a nice guy is. And what games that guys have to go...

November 5, 2010

I'm 30 now. And I've like wasted 10 years on these stupid games and women that dont have a clue in there heads. Now I have to start all over somehow. Just not sure where to start yet.

I feel ya... I have to make the conscious effort not to be distrustful when I start seeing someone. Ive been in that situation before, where a guy does that to me, and its unfair, I didnt do anything to wrong him, why am I paying for it? And so it just couldnt work out. But it really is hard... Ive been single for a year now, would love to date and be open to meeting someone, without deep down wondering "okay, when is this great guy going to jet and the *real* him start to show!* Blah...

November 5, 2010

This might come off a little harsh (blame it on insomnia and full-time school) but you aren't going to find anyone worth having while you have this kind of attitude.

I get it, your ex is basically a piece of trash. I feel really bad for those kids, and you did an amazing thing trying to step up and take care of them when she so obviously couldn't/wouldn't. But at this point.. every post you make is about how women don't like nice guys, women don't get it, women don't know what they're looking for -- and that isn't going to get you anywhere. You need to change your attitude and the image you project or you're going to get trapped in the same cycle. Just like there's that stereotype about the girl who always dates the same type of jerk.. it goes both ways.

November 5, 2010

I agree but for now I really dont care. But coming off arrogant and selfish isn't going to solve anything either.

This might come off a little harsh (blame it on insomnia and full-time school) but you aren't going to find anyone worth having while you have this kind of attitude.

I get it, your ex is basically a piece of trash. I feel really bad for those kids, and you did an amazing thing trying to step up and take care of them when she so obviously couldn't/wouldn't. But at this point.. every post you make is about how women don't like nice guys, women don't get it, women don't know what they're looking for -- and that isn't going to get you anywhere. You need to change your attitude and the image you project or you're going to get trapped in the same cycle. Just like there's that stereotype about the girl who always dates the same type of jerk.. it goes both ways.

November 5, 2010

I'm 30 now. And I've like wasted 10 years on these stupid games and women that dont have a clue in there heads. Now I have to start all over somehow. Just not sure where to start yet.

Yeah I have to admit, I have my moments where I feel just like this. Then I have my moments where Im more hopeful, but way more moments like this than not LoL!

Seriously though, Im 33 now, kiddo is almost 14...I always wanted to have another kid with someone, be a family with a man by my side and all that jazz, now Ive crossed that off my list cause now theres no way Im starting over with a baby when the one will be an adult in just a few years.

Im very close to crossing getting married off my list too since once kiddo is 18, it will be the first time in my adult life that I wont have to be responsible for anyone..Im liking the idea of seeing what its like to only have myself to think about. Not cause I wanna be selfish, but cause I have no clue what its like to have that sort of freedom.

I think I have old maid syndrome

November 5, 2010

Ok.. Well atleast I think a nice guy is. Able to handle a person's faults, Respectful, Caring and forgiving. Able to be your best friend as well as a stern figure. Able to know when to fight when its needed but not when its uncalled for. Understanding about health difficulties such as periods and things like that. The kind of guy that actually remembers your b-day or anniversaries or your favorite flower. To me. its understanding that life isn't about the big picture its the smaller things that come along that make the big picture what it is. Smart, witty, But not cocky in anyway. And not obsessive. but honest as a fault.

This is a great definition of a nice guy.

November 5, 2010

Good stuff here. Another term I would like to discuss: what exactly do women mean by confidence? I always thought confidence was asking for a girl's number, and then calling her and asking her out on a date later. What else does confidence entail?

Being the center of attention or the life of the party? That is an extrovert feature, not necessarily confidence. I would exhaust myself trying to do something like that on a regular basis.

Being able to go up to any and every girl and flirt with her? That is something players do. I would hope women would be able to identify that as a player attribute.

I consider myself very confident in most non-social activities I engage in, be they technical, athletic, or job-oriented. I have no clue whether or not I'm socially confident because I just have no clue what is classified as socially confident.

How exactly do you women notice whether a guy is confident or not?

November 5, 2010

Good stuff here. Another term I would like to discuss: what exactly do women mean by confidence? I always thought confidence was asking for a girl's number, and then calling her and asking her out on a date later. What else does confidence entail?

Being the center of attention or the life of the party? That is an extrovert feature, not necessarily confidence. I would exhaust myself trying to do something like that on a regular basis.

Being able to go up to any and every girl and flirt with her? That is something players do. I would hope women would be able to identify that as a player attribute.

To me its a guy who is sure of himself, doesnt second guess himself, his self-worth or his abilities. Yeah its a safe bet that all players are confident, but not all confident men are players.

November 5, 2010

I'd probably have to say it has to deal with confidence about yourself and how you feel about yourself. Not just the attention you are grabbing.

Good stuff here. Another term I would like to discuss: what exactly do women mean by confidence? I always thought confidence was asking for a girl's number, and then calling her and asking her out on a date later. What else does confidence entail?

Being the center of attention or the life of the party? That is an extrovert feature, not necessarily confidence. I would exhaust myself trying to do something like that on a regular basis.

Being able to go up to any and every girl and flirt with her? That is something players do. I would hope women would be able to identify that as a player attribute.

I consider myself very confident in most non-social activities I engage in, be they technical, athletic, or job-oriented. I have no clue whether or not I'm socially confident because I just have no clue what is classified as socially confident.

How exactly do you women notice whether a guy is confident or not?

November 5, 2010

I agree but for now I really dont care. But coming off arrogant and selfish isn't going to solve anything either.

I think she was being very direct and maybe a little provocative, but you know, she does have a good point.

Mate, seriously, one day you're going to have to have a good hard look at yourself as well as to why you are not, or feel that you are not, successful in dating or with women in general. It cannot always be the other person's fault to the exclusion of your own.

Now you're saying you 'really don't care', but you care enough to initiate and debate on a thread that spans some six pages now.

I researched some of my own queries regarding why I am not too great with women either, and you know what, I didn't even have to start a thread because I identified my problems reading through older threads and I own my problems. It is not going to do me any good whinging about why women are this way or that way.

November 5, 2010

First: I haven't read all the posts on this thread. So others might have already made this point.

As a card carrying member of "Heartless Bitches International", let me first state that there is a big difference between a nice guy and a Nice Guy as they say they dislike. A person doesn't have to be a jerk to get a girl.

For example, let's say that something your girl does really irritates you. A jerk would yell at the top of their lungs about it, throw things, make the girl feel guilty for it (check out the Emotional Manipulators section for rants against jerks), etc. A truly nice guy would say calmly that this is bothering them and see if they can work out a solution. A Nice Guy will say that they are perfectly happy when they are getting run over, then when they've finally had enough of whatever it is they never complained about will leave and run to their friends saying they are so horribly mistreated and how the world hates Nice Guys.

A lot of things that Nice Guys do seem to be related to passive-aggression. That is one of the things that drives me absolutely batcrap insane.

Here are a few articles that, while not pulling many punches, explain better than I can what I mean.

http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/niceguys/niceguys.shtml -- "Why "Nice Guys" Are Often Such Losers"

http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/niceguys/nice2.shtml -- "Nice Guys We Can Do Without"

http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/niceguys/shotinfoot.shtml -- The owner of the site dissecting a post from a self-proclaimed "nice guy" who definitely acts like a Nice Guy instead.

Edited November 5, 2010 by Lorelai

November 5, 2010

I think you misunderstand my intentions. I really haven't been writing about this for myself. I'm mostly tired of people picking on these guys. And I'm tired of people taking advantage of them. So I'm trying to set the record straight. I am a nice guy to a degree. But like I said I am bitter. I have no intention on stroking some gals ego just because she doesnt see how she's behaving or not. I've did that for 4 years and I'm done with being nice about it.

I think she was being very direct and maybe a little provocative, but you know, she does have a good point.

Mate, seriously, one day you're going to have to have a good hard look at yourself as well as to why you are not, or feel that you are not, successful in dating or with women in general. It cannot always be the other person's fault to the exclusion of your own.

Now you're saying you 'really don't care', but you care enough to initiate and debate on a thread that spans some six pages now.

I researched some of my own queries regarding why I am not too great with women either, and you know what, I didn't even have to start a thread because I identified my problems reading through older threads and I own my problems. It is not going to do me any good whinging about why women are this way or that way.

November 5, 2010

You may actually have a point. But aren't both sides just those three examples?

First: I haven't read all the posts on this thread. So others might have already made this point.

As a card carrying member of "Heartless Bitches International", let me first state that there is a big difference between a nice guy and a Nice Guy as they say they dislike. A person doesn't have to be a jerk to get a girl.

For example, let's say that something your girl does really irritates you. A jerk would yell at the top of their lungs about it, throw things, make the girl feel guilty for it (check out the Emotional Manipulators section for rants against jerks), etc. A truly nice guy would say calmly that this is bothering them and see if they can work out a solution. A Nice Guy will say that they are perfectly happy when they are getting run over, then when they've finally had enough of whatever it is they never complained about will leave and run to their friends saying they are so horribly mistreated and how the world hates Nice Guys.

A lot of things that Nice Guys do seem to be related to passive-aggression. That is one of the things that drives me absolutely batcrap insane.

Here are a few articles that, while not pulling many punches, explain better than I can what I mean.

http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/niceguys/niceguys.shtml -- "Why "Nice Guys" Are Often Such Losers"

http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/niceguys/nice2.shtml -- "Nice Guys We Can Do Without"

http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/niceguys/shotinfoot.shtml -- The owner of the site dissecting a post from a self-proclaimed "nice guy" who definitely acts like a Nice Guy instead.

November 5, 2010

I want to add one other point.

Women often pull the same "Nice Girl" type things, too. And there are (sadly) many women out there who are just as much users and emotional manipulators as the male emotional manipulators highlighted in "The Manipulation Files". This is not limited to gender.

If you've been in relationships with women who've used you.... you might check those articles out and reverse the gender where it's necessary. There's also a very good article on there that a person wrote about analyzing past relationships to try to learn from them and at least get something positive out of the horror you're now fortunately away from....

http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/manipulator/badrelationships.shtml

And to answer your question about what a "nice guy" is rather than what a "Nice Guy" is....

A nice guy does many of the positive things that a "Nice Guy" does -- like being caring, considerate, polite, remembering birthdays, being romantic, etc... but they do it because they value themselves *and* their partner. They don't stay with an abuser because they think they can change them or fix them... they respect themselves enough to know they don't have to tolerate abuse. They don't refuse to speak up when things bother them because they're afraid of losing the woman they're with (because they know bottling up their feelings makes those frustrations lead to a real fight over something that could have been discussed sometimes months or years before and resolved), and they know how to have a conversation instead of an argument. They don't use guilt trips or play the martyr.

November 5, 2010

'Bad boys' exude confidence and raw sexuality - that's what girls find attractive about them - but most times they'll get hurt playing with these types of men and that definitely isn't what they want.

What the vast majority of women want is a man who has that same air of confidence and raw sexuality on the outside but is a genuinely 'nice guy' on the inside. One who will treat her like a princess in public and a sex goddess in private.

I agree with this statement. The problem is that the women will go for the bad boy (drama) to F*** and then look for a guy they can talk to and make him their friend. This way they get the sexy guy AND the thoughtful guy (but only one will be the bf and it will be the one that their F***ing).

The solution is to be the sexy guy with a heart of gold but they are very rare

so women will keep F***int the sexy guy and hope he will turn into the sexy/thoughtful guy ( but men do the same thing to thoughtful women, TBF ).

November 5, 2010

Well thank you Miss Lorelai, I actually think thats very helpful. And thank you for addressing my question. I dont think I'm a Tm because I did put up with abuse and all that crap for 4 years. But in my own saving grace. I was trying to protect her kids from her.

I want to add one other point.

Women often pull the same "Nice Girl" type things, too. And there are (sadly) many women out there who are just as much users and emotional manipulators as the male emotional manipulators highlighted in "The Manipulation Files". This is not limited to gender.

If you've been in relationships with women who've used you.... you might check those articles out and reverse the gender where it's necessary. There's also a very good article on there that a person wrote about analyzing past relationships to try to learn from them and at least get something positive out of the horror you're now fortunately away from....

http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/manipulator/badrelationships.shtml

And to answer your question about what a "nice guy" is rather than what a "Nice Guy" is....

A nice guy does many of the positive things that a "Nice Guy" does -- like being caring, considerate, polite, remembering birthdays, being romantic, etc... but they do it because they value themselves *and* their partner. They don't stay with an abuser because they think they can change them or fix them... they respect themselves enough to know they don't have to tolerate abuse. They don't refuse to speak up when things bother them because they're afraid of losing the woman they're with (because they know bottling up their feelings makes those frustrations lead to a real fight over something that could have been discussed sometimes months or years before and resolved), and they know how to have a conversation instead of an argument. They don't use guilt trips or play the martyr.

November 5, 2010

I believe you also have a valid point also. But that is also a game that alot of women I've seen play. And it isn't right to lead a guy along like that either. isn't right for a guy to do that either

I agree with this statement. The problem is that the women will go for the bad boy (drama) to F*** and then look for a guy they can talk to and make him their friend. This way they get the sexy guy AND the thoughtful guy (but only one will be the bf and it will be the one that their F***ing).

The solution is to be the sexy guy with a heart of gold but they are very rare
so women will keep F***int the sexy guy and hope he will turn into the sexy/thoughtful guy ( but men do the same thing to thoughtful women, TBF ).

November 6, 2010

I'm inviting anyone Girl or guy to post on here and add some of the nice qualities that attract them. And maybe we could compare them. AND MAYBE we can make each other side understand for a change.

And as a side note: Yes I'm bitter. But again I have every right to be. You would be too. If you'd seen half the crap I have. I'm not gonna kiss anyone's butt because I think its what they want you to hear. I'm not shallow like that And I have seen some guys on these threads that are like that.

Nice qualities that attract me: a guy should be very horny, desperate to have sex with me, open about being horny, with no performance anxiety and no extra-pounds, pays for dinner and everything if needed, talks a lot about real himself, not afraid to be himself, does stuff that I want him to do, says me white lies which I want to hear such as I am beautiful, sexy, amazing and anything pleasant about me.

As for the statement " I'm not gonna kiss anyone's butt because I think its what they want you to hear". I would love to hear that a guy wants to kiss my butt and if he really did that it would be a great turn IMO.

November 6, 2010

http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/niceguys/niceguys.shtml -- "Why "Nice Guys" Are Often Such Losers"

http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/niceguys/nice2.shtml -- "Nice Guys We Can Do Without"

http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/niceguys/shotinfoot.shtml -- The owner of the site dissecting a post from a self-proclaimed "nice guy" who definitely acts like a Nice Guy instead.

This stuff is great. All of the whiny, girly types AKA so called nice guys needs to read this stuff.

She was right on with this part-

Whiny, girly-type nice guy: I'm insecure because I don't like to chop little girls' heads off?

The author rseponse: I'll bet you just don't have a CLUE what this statement really meant (From Nice Guys We Can Do Without): "Nice guys who are too STUPID to figure out any other way out of their so-called predicament except to conclude that they have to become woman-battering heavy drinkers and sports players."

These guy just don't get it. They think too much in black and white when they should be thinking out of the box. This whole <said in girly, whiny voice> "well I am a nice guy and since she doesn't like me I must have to be a jerk and beat her for her to like me" is just so vomit-inducing. Get a clue fellas. Get a clue. Whining won't give you the clue.

November 6, 2010

I believe you have me kinda stumped on this one. lol

Well either way. You can't totally be with a guy and expect them to worship you like that. it isn't really right. But hey why should I judge?

Nice qualities that attract me: a guy should be very horny, desperate to have sex with me, open about being horny, with no performance anxiety and no extra-pounds, pays for dinner and everything if needed, talks a lot about real himself, not afraid to be himself, does stuff that I want him to do, says me white lies which I want to hear such as I am beautiful, sexy, amazing and anything pleasant about me.
As for the statement " I'm not gonna kiss anyone's butt because I think its what they want you to hear". I would love to hear that a guy wants to kiss my butt and if he really did that it would be a great turn IMO.

November 6, 2010

Ok I think I understand where your coming from. But not all " nice guys" are whiney. And complain all the time about some girl not giving it up to them. I do agree I've seen probably hundred of threads that have guys that are like that. SO I'd say I can see your side to it now.

This stuff is great. All of the whiny, girly types AKA so called nice guys needs to read this stuff.

She was right on with this part-

Whiny, girly-type nice guy: I'm insecure because I don't like to chop little girls' heads off?

The author rseponse: I'll bet you just don't have a CLUE what this statement really meant (From Nice Guys We Can Do Without): "Nice guys who are too STUPID to figure out any other way out of their so-called predicament except to conclude that they have to become woman-battering heavy drinkers and sports players."

These guy just don't get it. They think too much in black and white when they should be thinking out of the box. This whole <said in girly, whiny voice> "well I am a nice guy and since she doesn't like me I must have to be a jerk and beat her for her to like me" is just so vomit-inducing. Get a clue fellas. Get a clue. Whining won't give you the clue.

November 6, 2010

Good stuff here. Another term I would like to discuss: what exactly do women mean by confidence? I always thought confidence was asking for a girl's number, and then calling her and asking her out on a date later. What else does confidence entail?

Being the center of attention or the life of the party? That is an extrovert feature, not necessarily confidence. I would exhaust myself trying to do something like that on a regular basis.

Being able to go up to any and every girl and flirt with her? That is something players do. I would hope women would be able to identify that as a player attribute.

I consider myself very confident in most non-social activities I engage in, be they technical, athletic, or job-oriented. I have no clue whether or not I'm socially confident because I just have no clue what is classified as socially confident.

How exactly do you women notice whether a guy is confident or not?

Confidence is a cliche fluff term in the dating world it means very little,women usually use it as a wrod to desribe a man theyre physically attracted to to not seem too shallow..

Veyr few peopel are always confident or never ocnfident usually somewhere in between and doesnt correlate to wheter they get women or not

November 6, 2010

YOu have a point also. Anyone wanna refute this one?

Confidence is a cliche fluff term in the dating world it means very little,women usually use it as a wrod to desribe a man theyre physically attracted to to not seem too shallow..

Veyr few peopel are always confident or never ocnfident usually somewhere in between and doesnt correlate to wheter they get women or not

November 6, 2010

YOu have a point also. Anyone wanna refute this one?

Yes, I'll refute it. Confidence is not a cliche. Women are attracted to the 'confidence' itself, very often regardless of what the man looks like, because confidence suggests other things about him. Of course, if he also looks great we're not going to complain.

Obviously nobody is confident all the time but some people exude confidence which, sorry guys, is damn sexy.

Confidence says you're not afraid to be yourself and you like who you are. It says you're not a doormat, that you can take charge and take care of yourself and others if necessary. It says that you will stand up for what you believe in, even if the consequences may not be in your favour. It says you know what you want and you're prepared to do what it takes to get it. Confidence even suggests that you might be great in bed.

Don't kid yourselves guys. Confidence is NOT about looks and there is absolutely no reason why a 'nice guy', even an average looking one, can't have confidence in bucket loads.

November 6, 2010

Confidence says you're not afraid to be yourself and you like who you are. It says you're not a doormat, that you can take charge and take care of yourself and others if necessary. It says that you will stand up for what you believe in, even if the consequences may not be in your favour. It says you know what you want and you're prepared to do what it takes to get it. Confidence even suggests that you might be great in bed.

So you can tell a man has all those traits in the first few minutes of meeting him:laugh: i highly doubt it

I know plenty of guys who are insecure deep down but get plenty of women becasue theyre highly attractive and can also fake confidence

If womens intution was so dead on alll the time then none of them would get "played" by these "players"

November 6, 2010

I believe you have me kinda stumped on this one. lol
Well either way. You can't totally be with a guy and expect them to worship you like that. it isn't really right. But hey why should I judge?

Unfortunatley that's how all women are. They want to be worshipped and have the upper hand at all times without "giving" anything back to the guy. That has been proven over and over again.

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People dont really know what a nice guy is. And what games that guys have to go...

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