People dont really know what a nice guy is. And what games that guys have to go...

[hydorclops]

That Girl wrote, "Here's the thing you have to get: women aren't that different from men when it comes to who they want to date."

I agree. But take it a step further. Men are attracted to the same men that women are, for the same reasons. They don't want to date them, but they want to be friends and hang out with them.

 

Not everyone is popular. There's no need to try, if it doesn't come naturally. Some of the fine people around the edges, quiet, circumspect, even nice, have their own value. It's OK to have a smaller circle of friends than the most popular people.

 

For many, dating is a means to an end, not something that you have to be skilled at. You can be non popular, bad at dating, yet be great at relationships.

 

"Nice guys finish last" is an idea that I've always seen as a warning for people in business. I don't know when or why it became associated with dating. It makes sense in the zero sum game of business, but seems untrue when applied to human relationships.

[GoodOnPaper]

For many, dating is a means to an end, not something that you have to be skilled at. You can be non popular, bad at dating, yet be great at relationships.

 

I think a lot of "nice guys" -- including myself -- have this quality in common. But it is a killer during the young, formative dating years. Girls have a much larger dating pool than guys at that point and my experience was that a girl would freak out if the thought of us staying together more than a couple of months didn't freak me out.

 

The bigger problem is when you are bad at attracting women, it puts a LOT of pressure on the decision to pursue (or go along with) an LTR when the planets align and a woman miraculously shows an interest. Choosing from one option probably won't land you the best LTR partner. All-in-all, I would rather have been good at attracting women even if I wouldn't be good at relationships as a result.

[Nemicron]

Ok.. Well atleast I think a nice guy is. Able to handle a person's faults, Respectful, Caring and forgiving. Able to be your best friend as well as a stern figure. Able to know when to fight when its needed but not when its uncalled for. Understanding about health difficulties such as periods and things like that. The kind of guy that actually remembers your b-day or anniversaries or your favorite flower. To me. its understanding that life isn't about the big picture its the smaller things that come along that make the big picture what it is. Smart, witty, But not cocky in anyway. And not obsessive. but honest as a fault.

 

Id say that what a true nice guy really is. Not some of these other things that I've seen people come up with. And in all honesty its hardly ever a 2 way street. it never comes back. And I've never seen a women with even half of those qualities.

 

 

Anybody care to define 'nice guy'? Seems to me you're all talking about a guy with low self-esteem who lets himself be treated like a doormat! That's not my definition of a nice guy.

 

Nor is somebody with low self esteem attractive, to men or women. If you read these forums carefully there are some very constant universal traits which are attractive to the opposite sex - confidence being one of the most important.

 

I have come across plenty of 'nice guys' who are also confident and therefore very attractive - regardless of their physical attributes.

 

I would say 95% of the men I've dated in the past have been 'nice guys', but none of them would take bad treatment lying down - if they had I would instantly lose respect for them.

 

I would also instantly lose respect for a guy who didn't treat me well so it works both ways. If you all think that by 'not giving a sh*t', and acting like the 'bad boys' you think women desire you're barking up the wrong tree.

 

'Bad boys' exude confidence and raw sexuality - that's what girls find attractive about them - but most times they'll get hurt playing with these types of men and that definitely isn't what they want.

 

What the vast majority of women want is a man who has that same air of confidence and raw sexuality on the outside but is a genuinely 'nice guy' on the inside. One who will treat her like a princess in public and a sex goddess in private.

 

If more people treated each other as they would like to be treated themselves the world would be a much 'nicer' place all round.

[Mme. Chaucer]

OP, if you talk to women who are in a relationship that they are happy with, that is fulfilling on all important levels - I think you will find in almost all cases that they are in a relationship with a "nice guy."

 

I read your other thread. I understand why you are bitter and I am truly sorry that you went through all that you did. Regardless, YOU need to have enough self respect to stand up for your own boundaries and standards, and to not accept less in your relationships.

 

When you have that, you won't have to fear being a "nice" guy any longer. You can be a nice, strong, good man with the same qualities in your woman.

[Nemicron]

Thank you for understanding. But my original point is alot the posts I've noticed are from arrogant people that dont know what they are talking about. For example: I read a post from some lady that is in her early 20's she enjoys shopping and goes to alot of parties. And all she can do is complain about how Men only get themselves off instead of even caring about what the Women hes having sex with wants or enjoys. Which is exactly what I've been trying to explain and failing at.

 

First of all, if your going to parties to meet guys. Your more then not going to find a guy that cares about giving a women a orgasm.

Secondly, if your only hobby and/or interests are shopping. You only going to attract a certain type of guy.

And third, You can't sterotype all guys are being jerks. Just like Guys should do with women. I realize I'm not a sage in this matter either. But Not all " nice guys " are stalkers or serial killers

[GivenUp0083]

My nice qualities? hmmm...

 

Well I know when I beat the **** out of them I use an open slap hand instead of a closed fist punch. I figured that makes me a little bit more on the nicer side, right?

[Nemicron]

I think your missing the point. lol

 

My nice qualities? hmmm...

 

Well I know when I beat the **** out of them I use an open slap hand instead of a closed fist punch. I figured that makes me a little bit more on the nicer side, right?

[Nemicron]

I'm gonna post this because I've seen other threads with Men and women that dont get it.

 

One lady mentions something about just because your a nice guy doesn't mean you get a GF right away. Well.. hmm that is true. No body said you should be duck taped to a wall or something. Decent human being or not. You totally missing the point! I've seen the most unattractive guys ever end up with these like uber attractive women. But it didn't have anything to do with they way the looked. MAybe some women in here aren't like that. Or Shallow and I give you mad kudos for that. But seriously think outside the box. Alot of women are like that. And it seems to be alot of the types that a "nice guy" is actually meeting. Again, it rally doesn't have anything to do with being assertive.

 

Another girl mentioned something about some guys act like they are nice until they get what they want. And then get bored and bail. Thats true also. Unfortunately there are guys like that. But on the flip side. I've met alot of girls that are just as shallow. So its both sides on that one.

[Nemicron]

Then there is the always assumption that your a whimp. Some other girl said.

 

That isn't true completely either. Now grant you there are some guys out there that even if they are soaking wet the weigh about 120 lbs and for whatever reason aren't good at confrontation. But there must be something or someone that fits even those types.

 

And there are women out there that. Sleep with anything that comes here way. But not because they are slutty like my ex. But because they think that sex is the only real way to show love.

 

Me personally I may be bitter. But I can't shake the nice guy either. lol I'm 6'2" 200lbs, athletic build and I am a lil out of shape. But I can handle myself in a fight and I have military training in my background. I'm not a whimp. And I dont think I look terrible either. I'm just looking for something special.

[ReturnToSender]

Yeah, definitely on both sides. Everyone I know describes me as such a nice girl, blah blah blah, apparently no man Ive been with seems to see or appreciate it blah blah lol but yeah, the guys I choose are inherently just jerks. They didnt come off that way, yeah its the confidence and self-assuredness that Im attracted to, unfortunately, the guys also end up being self-absorbed and well...jerks.

 

On the flip, guys that Ive been involved with have accused me of losing interest because they are a "nice guy" and thats not it at all. I do want a guy who is nice, but the ones Ive run into are the sorts who tell me a million times over one dinner how pretty I am...flattering over appetizers, creepy by the time Ive heard it 20 times by the time our main course arrives. Or write me massive amounts of poetry, or write songs for me, etc. Every so often, yeah that really would be sweet, but I seem to attract the nice guy who goes overboard with it.

 

I dont like being put on a pedestal...Im not perfect, Im not divine, nothing like that, and its super uncomfortable to be in a position where the guy Im with looks up to me like that. I seem to attract either the guy who puts himself before everything at all times and i dont matter, or the guy who puts me above everything and his own needs dont matter.

 

Would be great to meet a guy who isnt one of the two extremes...

[Nemicron]

See I like that a honest answer. And I totally agree. Being smothered gets old. And I think some guys take it to an extreme and thats what turns girls off. And in that respect who could blame you there. You should try living in colorado sometime. Its a nightmare with plenty of self absorbed jerks. Or so some of my female friends have mentioned.

And truely I do hope you find a nice guy that doesn't require some assembly lol. Thank you for actually answering honestly. I feel like I've been running into a brick wall with trying to argue my case here.

 

 

Yeah, definitely on both sides. Everyone I know describes me as such a nice girl, blah blah blah, apparently no man Ive been with seems to see or appreciate it blah blah lol but yeah, the guys I choose are inherently just jerks. They didnt come off that way, yeah its the confidence and self-assuredness that Im attracted to, unfortunately, the guys also end up being self-absorbed and well...jerks.

 

On the flip, guys that Ive been involved with have accused me of losing interest because they are a "nice guy" and thats not it at all. I do want a guy who is nice, but the ones Ive run into are the sorts who tell me a million times over one dinner how pretty I am...flattering over appetizers, creepy by the time Ive heard it 20 times by the time our main course arrives. Or write me massive amounts of poetry, or write songs for me, etc. Every so often, yeah that really would be sweet, but I seem to attract the nice guy who goes overboard with it.

 

I dont like being put on a pedestal...Im not perfect, Im not divine, nothing like that, and its super uncomfortable to be in a position where the guy Im with looks up to me like that. I seem to attract either the guy who puts himself before everything at all times and i dont matter, or the guy who puts me above everything and his own needs dont matter.

 

Would be great to meet a guy who isnt one of the two extremes...

[Nemicron]

Another thing a girl mentioned. Was something about you have to be attractive for the girl to hook up to you. Again. Thats a really shallow way of thinking. It is true however that you have to have some attractiveness to appeal to that person. But in all honesty it isn't always looks. Just like this other person mentioned. Sometimes its intelligence. Sometimes its a persons eyes. Etc.. And thats my point. A nice guy doesn't have to be attractive or assertive. All it takes is one spark of interest. But if you've shut yourself down completely. You wouldn't even see that.

[Eeyore79]

A nice guy doesn't have to be attractive or assertive. All it takes is one spark of interest.

 

No, a guy doesn't have to be attractive or assertive for a woman somewhere to like him... there's someone for everyone. But those are the attributes that tend to have mass market appeal - if you're one or the other, the vast majority of girls will be somewhat interested in you. If you have neither, you're stuck waiting for one of the minority of women who might fancy you to come along, and that could take a while...

[ReturnToSender]

Thanks so much Nemicon, I live in SoBe so the plastic "Hollywood" attitude abounds here. See and be seen, act on airs, all of that. My ex gave in to that 100%, now hes all party like a rock star, which sucks cause he can be the sweetest guy ever, and ever so often he is that way to me, but where before hed only act Hollywood when wed go out socially, then he stated doing it all the time. There was no off button anymore.

 

Its super hard to tell who is bs'ing you or not, and the women are the same way. Its hard to tell what anyone is like cause it seems like so many people are putting on airs "see and be seen" and have a rep to maintain. Its ridiculous.

 

And yeah, the nice guys, even the nice girls over compensate. Ill even say Im guilty of that...cause after awhile I did get into a "kill him with kindness" mode, which is something my ex complained to me about when we were breaking up. He said it would make him feel bad cause he didnt understand what he does that he deserves someone so sweet. The worlds just gone mad, thats what I think LoL

[Nemicron]

wel that is true also. But do you not agree. that it doesnt have to be that complicated? Shouldnt be simpler that somehow?

 

No, a guy doesn't have to be attractive or assertive for a woman somewhere to like him... there's someone for everyone. But those are the attributes that tend to have mass market appeal - if you're one or the other, the vast majority of girls will be somewhat interested in you. If you have neither, you're stuck waiting for one of the minority of women who might fancy you to come along, and that could take a while...

[LittleTiger]

Ok.. Well atleast I think a nice guy is. Able to handle a person's faults, Respectful, Caring and forgiving. Able to be your best friend as well as a stern figure. Able to know when to fight when its needed but not when its uncalled for. Understanding about health difficulties such as periods and things like that. The kind of guy that actually remembers your b-day or anniversaries or your favorite flower. To me. its understanding that life isn't about the big picture its the smaller things that come along that make the big picture what it is. Smart, witty, But not cocky in anyway. And not obsessive. but honest as a fault.

 

Id say that what a true nice guy really is. Not some of these other things that I've seen people come up with. And in all honesty its hardly ever a 2 way street. it never comes back. And I've never seen a women with even half of those qualities.

 

Then we agree on what a 'nice guy' is. These kinds of men are rare and the women they deserve are also rare - but they/we () do exist. If the 'nice guy' you've described is you, there is a very special woman somewhere who will consider you a great catch and appreciate how lucky she is.

 

I had a read through your story so that I could understand better where you're coming from and I'm sorry for what you've been through. It sounds like you've had a terrible time. The important thing now is to look to the future.

 

Treat yourself with the same respect as you would others and please don't allow one woman to turn you into a lesser man than you are.

[Nemicron]

yea ok you have me beat I think on that. I'd say Hollywood and new york are full of people like that.

 

As far as the Bs-ing I totally agree. I personally have been told all the nice and sweet things and later it turns out to be a lie. I'm so done with playing those stupid games. I'm SO tired of running into cheaters and liars. So I'm not one of the kind of guys that ever really bothered with wearing a ton of different masks. I'm just who I am. So I gave up looking for anyone real.

 

 

Thanks so much Nemicon, I live in SoBe so the plastic "Hollywood" attitude abounds here. See and be seen, act on airs, all of that. My ex gave in to that 100%, now hes all party like a rock star, which sucks cause he can be the sweetest guy ever, and ever so often he is that way to me, but where before hed only act Hollywood when wed go out socially, then he stated doing it all the time. There was no off button anymore.

 

Its super hard to tell who is bs'ing you or not, and the women are the same way. Its hard to tell what anyone is like cause it seems like so many people are putting on airs "see and be seen" and have a rep to maintain. Its ridiculous.

 

And yeah, the nice guys, even the nice girls over compensate. Ill even say Im guilty of that...cause after awhile I did get into a "kill him with kindness" mode, which is something my ex complained to me about when we were breaking up. He said it would make him feel bad cause he didnt understand what he does that he deserves someone so sweet. The worlds just gone mad, thats what I think LoL

[Eeyore79]

Shouldnt be simpler that somehow?

 

I don't really see how it can be simpler than "You have to be attractive for someone to be attracted to you". Attractiveness being a combination of looks and personality, of course.

 

If you're attractive to the majority of women, you probably won't have any trouble finding someone who wants to date you. But if, for whatever reason (ugliness, shyness, etc) you don't have a broad appeal, then you're pitching yourself to a very small section of the female population, and it'll take longer to find someone who wants to date you.

[Nemicron]

WEll thank you. And yes I'm talking about that is what a true Nice guy is really like. Supportive to the end and understanding.

 

I've actually am suprisingly understanding with periods and things like that In the past I've even taken out my ex's tampons for her while she was trashed. I didn't want her to end up with TSS.

 

But see this is my point. I mean whats so hard about settling down. Or taking the time to understand the person your looking for. Or even making a a special dinner. Even if it doesn't turn out like you really wanted. Thats what a nice guy is really about. and instead we get put down passed up and used. People dont really understand. And there are always the type of guy that kisses a person butt just to make him seem like a caring person.

 

Then we agree on what a 'nice guy' is. These kinds of men are rare and the women they deserve are also rare - but they/we () do exist. If the 'nice guy' you've described is you, there is a very special woman somewhere who will consider you a great catch and appreciate how lucky she is.

 

I had a read through your story so that I could understand better where you're coming from and I'm sorry for what you've been through. It sounds like you've had a terrible time. The important thing now is to look to the future.

 

Treat yourself with the same respect as you would others and please don't allow one woman to turn you into a lesser man than you are.

[Nemicron]

I really dont share your views on this subject. I've seen girls go for guys that were total jerks to say the least. And girls walk all over other guys because they wanted a free dinner. Or even girls going completely nuts because they were insecure. Looks aren't everything.

 

As far as for me. I just dont really care what people think anymore. But I have been trying to get people to see the difference.

 

I don't really see how it can be simpler than "You have to be attractive for someone to be attracted to you". Attractiveness being a combination of looks and personality, of course.

 

If you're attractive to the majority of women, you probably won't have any trouble finding someone who wants to date you. But if, for whatever reason (ugliness, shyness, etc) you don't have a broad appeal, then you're pitching yourself to a very small section of the female population, and it'll take longer to find someone who wants to date you.

[ReturnToSender]

yea ok you have me beat I think on that. I'd say Hollywood and new york are full of people like that.

 

As far as the Bs-ing I totally agree. I personally have been told all the nice and sweet things and later it turns out to be a lie. I'm so done with playing those stupid games. I'm SO tired of running into cheaters and liars. So I'm not one of the kind of guys that ever really bothered with wearing a ton of different masks. I'm just who I am. So I gave up looking for anyone real.

 

Dont give up... Im trying not to. Though I do get the feeling I wont really meet anyone til I move out of here, I still try not to let it get to me.

 

I feel like im just way too old for the games...okay maybe not an age thing but a place of life thing. Im serious about what I want out of life, its not all fun and games and I dont have my whole life ahead of me...the time to make something of it is definitely now. Ive never been into the games, but I think I tolerated it more when I was younger and now I have no patience for it.

 

I try to remind myself, if I feel this way, there has to be a guy out there with my mindset and place of life who feels the same way too...somehow in all this craziness, we'll end up in the same room, and I dont wanna be like a bitter hag when I meet him! LoL

[Nemicron]

LOL yea I know how you feel. You should see some of the comments some of these arrogant guys are saying also about nice guys. Thats why I started this thread I've been trying to explain it over and over. And it seems like so many people on here are completely blind. ITs like telling the the sky is actually blue when they think is red or something. It really amazes me.

 

But I am done with trying to date and things like that until I can get my life in order. And even then I dont think I'll be trust me people for a really long while.

 

Dont give up... Im trying not to. Though I do get the feeling I wont really meet anyone til I move out of here, I still try not to let it get to me.

 

I feel like im just way too old for the games...okay maybe not an age thing but a place of life thing. Im serious about what I want out of life, its not all fun and games and I dont have my whole life ahead of me...the time to make something of it is definitely now. Ive never been into the games, but I think I tolerated it more when I was younger and now I have no patience for it.

 

I try to remind myself, if I feel this way, there has to be a guy out there with my mindset and place of life who feels the same way too...somehow in all this craziness, we'll end up in the same room, and I dont wanna be like a bitter hag when I meet him! LoL

[Mike B.]

yea ok you have me beat I think on that. I'd say Hollywood and new york are full of people like that.

 

As far as the Bs-ing I totally agree. I personally have been told all the nice and sweet things and later it turns out to be a lie. I'm so done with playing those stupid games. I'm SO tired of running into cheaters and liars. So I'm not one of the kind of guys that ever really bothered with wearing a ton of different masks. I'm just who I am. So I gave up looking for anyone real.

 

 

This situation is so familiar to me. Believe me, I was in your shoes not too long ago. I was looking to replace a special woman in my life that I let get away. I thought if I could just be as kind to women as she was to me when we were dating, I would find someone who was like her. Boy was I wrong. It was not until I just gave up, didn't care anymore, and just started letting my hair down and freely dating that things started booming. After dating quite a bit of women recently, I think I might have found someone who is right for me. Only time will tell.

[Nemicron]

Im glad that you found someone. But the girl I let go of completely ruined my life. And still doesn't care about the actions she's done. And can't own up to her crimes. Thats mostly why I dont care anymore. I'm not playing anymore games or even tolerating it anymore. And because of my past. I hardly have much faith in women as a whole. There no excuse in the world in my mind for playing these stupid games. People get hurt and their lives get destroyed And who suffers for it? Not the person that did it.

 

Theres even a girl on this site that accidentally got pregnant. And then ended up with a miscarriage. And the dude totally bailed. In that very same token. I met some guy that got used by a women just to get knocked up and then bailed on even her own baby. So I'm wondering WTF is the point anymore?

 

This situation is so familiar to me. Believe me, I was in your shoes not too long ago. I was looking to replace a special woman in my life that I let get away. I thought if I could just be as kind to women as she was to me when we were dating, I would find someone who was like her. Boy was I wrong. It was not until I just gave up, didn't care anymore, and just started letting my hair down and freely dating that things started booming. After dating quite a bit of women recently, I think I might have found someone who is right for me. Only time will tell.

[ReturnToSender]

LOL yea I know how you feel. You should see some of the comments some of these arrogant guys are saying also about nice guys. Thats why I started this thread I've been trying to explain it over and over. And it seems like so many people on here are completely blind. ITs like telling the the sky is actually blue when they think is red or something. It really amazes me.

 

But I am done with trying to date and things like that until I can get my life in order. And even then I dont think I'll be trust me people for a really long while.

 

I feel ya... I have to make the conscious effort not to be distrustful when I start seeing someone. Ive been in that situation before, where a guy does that to me, and its unfair, I didnt do anything to wrong him, why am I paying for it? And so it just couldnt work out. But it really is hard... Ive been single for a year now, would love to date and be open to meeting someone, without deep down wondering "okay, when is this great guy going to jet and the *real* him start to show!* Blah...