Are you a nice guy who can't get a date?

[Untouchable_Fire]

I noticed a thread on how a sweet guy can't get any attention from girls. I don't think that is true at all. I think it is something guys say to avoid looking at themselves.

 

It's true to a certain degree. I know guys who hit several categories you have listed yet don't struggle to get women because they are Aholes.

 

Cocky is really attractive... so attractive it trumps a huge number of other flaws.

 

So... while you do have a very valid point... it's only half the story.

[that girl]

It's true to a certain degree. I know guys who hit several categories you have listed yet don't struggle to get women because they are Aholes.

 

Cocky is really attractive... so attractive it trumps a huge number of other flaws.

 

So... while you do have a very valid point... it's only half the story.

 

But they're not getting women because they're a-holes. Lots of a-holes don't get any.

 

The a-holes who make it work for them have managed to figure out how to target women who are receptive to that. I'm not into that, so I can't give advice on it (plus, I don't think it is healthy). But it isn't just being a jerk that gets them the girl.

 

You have to decide whether you want to have mutual relationships with nice people or drama fests with people who have low self-esteem.

[dispatch3d]

ahhhh 5 or whatever one was about "jerks" and "dating advice" is so offensive hahaha

[Eclypse]

Confidence is key, as is your selection in a partner. I am a nice guy dating a nice girl. When I look back on some of the girls I used to like I think that I dodged a bullet. And it's funny how now whenever I go to parties I get hit on (sometimes aggressively) by a lot of women. It's awesome!

 

I used to think the whole be confident advice was bs but now I know it's true. Try it, it really works!

[irc333]

I'm somewhat attractive and nice. I'm working out to become attractive.

 

Doesn't necessarily mean this will work though. Just sayin'

[Sarah1977]

I always date nice guys. Nice, smart, and funny. Those are my weaknesses.

 

I've noticed that most of the guys who describe themselves as 'nice' really aren't.

 

Actions speak louder than words. Some guys are just all talk.

[Leandro]

Doesn't necessarily mean this will work though. Just sayin'

True, but it will make me feel more confident. I'm doing it for myself and not the girls.

[sally4sara]

Interestingly, no one claims that positive generalizations about women necessitate hatred in the generalizer. "Women are more nurturing," "Women are less violent," "Women are ..." Why is that? Seems if generalizations are a determinant of hatred, shouldn't matter whether they are positive or negative. Yet no hue and cry goes up when women are generalized positively.

 

I won't always assume hatred for comments like these, but I will argue the validity of the statement. It ignores the nurturing and passive men and the cold, violent women I've known. Sexist generalizations are intended to pigeon hole people into easily identified boxes so the person doing the generalizing doesn't have to think too hard or step outside of their comfort zone. No risk; no personal growth.

 

My mother - cold and violent

Me - use to be hella violent but figured out somewhere along the way how to be nurturing.

Male cousin - faints at the sight of blood despite coming from a family of hunters and was highly disturbed when the man who murdered his father was found neck tied in a motel room because it didn't (in his mind) accomplish anything good.

Ex brother in law - LOVES kids and is an amazingly nurturing single father of three with only two being his biologically.

Ex roomate - Begged his ONS to not abort and give him the kid to raise alone. Then, many years later of almost zero contact with the kid, she decided to try to take custody from him. He played fair, retained custody and still puts in the many state travel to ensure she still gets to see the kid WITHOUT getting child support from her.

 

See how even complimentary generalizations leave people unrecognized, mis-labeled, and misunderstood?

[Untouchable_Fire]

But they're not getting women because they're a-holes. Lots of a-holes don't get any.

The a-holes who make it work for them have managed to figure out how to target women who are receptive to that. I'm not into that, so I can't give advice on it (plus, I don't think it is healthy). But it isn't just being a jerk that gets them the girl.

You have to decide whether you want to have mutual relationships with nice people or drama fests with people who have low self-esteem.

 

Yes you are correct that just being a jerk isn't a great tactic. Also that many nice guys are nice because they have serious flaws.

 

Really this whole topic and idea have been beaten to death. I don't see this as a problem in other cultures. Guys there don't label themselves as nice or bad, and the women are much more intelligent about picking men.

 

I've been through this whole thing personally. In highschool I was crazy nice... very close to doormat type behavior. I thought that is how a guy is supposed to act. Well... It didn't take long to realize girls have no respect for that type of guy. So, as I entered college I just decided I didn't care and would act however I like. That worked really well. Over time I often pushed the limits of what behavior the women I dated would accept. I've found you have MUCH more leeway at being mean than you do being nice. The trick is to constantly provide attention and a high level of sexual interest.

 

Yes many of the guys I see who fall into the nice category simply have no self esteem. Their lack of success with women makes them really unconfident which makes them even less attractive.

 

But seriously... arrogance, selfishness, jerk type, and abusive behaviors all seem to blend together to spell Self Confidence to most women here.

 

Let me tell you this. As a guy I would rather date a woman who is a doormat than a woman who is a jerk. With the doormat I have to always ask how she really feels before making choices... with a bitchy I'm constantly fighting.

[Eeyore79]

would you go out with a guy who looked like this dude? http://whatthecrap.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/dude.jpg

 

If you intended to choose an example of a man whom nobody would want to date, you should have chosen someone else - that's Jeff Bridges, and he is hot as hell

[Green]

If you intended to choose an example of a man whom nobody would want to date, you should have chosen someone else - that's Jeff Bridges, and he is hot as hell

 

She said she had been interested in some funny looking dudes... then I put a picture of "the Dude"

 

although I consider myself a lot better looking then Jeff Bridges.

 

Here is an example of a men I consider sub par looking http://nebp.org.uk/news/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/alexander-mcqueen.jpg (ugly yet not fat/skinny/nerdy or poor looking)

 

http://www.alexanderbell.us/Initiative/IMG_GEL/Bell.jpg (kind of old and nerdy but not fat/skinny or poor looking)

 

http://labs.oracle.com/people/jalexander/jeff-alexander.jpg (kinda nerdy and weak looking but not ultra nerdy or weak... not to old/fat

 

you get the point

 

Not that being bad looking should stop anyone from getting woman

[Eeyore79]

The only one I'd be totally turned off by would be the last one. If the other two were confident, charismatic and interesting, I'd probably date them.

[Green]

The only one I'd be totally turned off by would be the last one. If the other two were confident, charismatic and interesting, I'd probably date them.

 

The last one was meant to be the least attractive. He just seemed weak in that specific picture. (all those picture were random pics that came up on google search)

 

If I wanted to obviously put up a very unatractive guy I would just post a pic like this http://cdn.fd.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/weird-guy-with-guns.jpg

 

actualy that is even to cool

 

this http://media.ebaumsworld.com/mediaFiles/picture/438388/80629440.jpg

 

Of course even this guy could get a gf if he just TRIED and had other things going for him.

 

or him http://www.celebrityplasticsurgery.tv/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/carrot_juiced_sholders.jpg

[Eeyore79]

They might not get the hottest girls, but they'd get someone at least. I think it's fair to say that attractiveness is a combination of looks and personality - if you're not hot, you can still boost your attractiveness by having a great personality. Maybe you still can't boost it high enough to get the absolute hottest girls, but you can certainly get someone of equivalent attractiveness.

 

Personally I'm willing to date a physically unattractive guy if I like him as a person. Obviously I have an "Eww, gross, no way!" line, and if a guy is on the other side of it then there's no chance I'll date him no matter how nice he is. But that line is drawn pretty low down the scale, because I'm more interested in a man's other attributes. Even if a guy is on the other side of my "Eww!" line, there will be a girl somewhere who would consider dating him because she has lower minimum standards.

[krz12]

The last one was meant to be the least attractive. He just seemed weak in that specific picture. (all those picture were random pics that came up on google search)

 

If I wanted to obviously put up a very unatractive guy I would just post a pic like this http://cdn.fd.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/weird-guy-with-guns.jpg

 

actualy that is even to cool

 

this http://media.ebaumsworld.com/mediaFiles/picture/438388/80629440.jpg

 

Of course even this guy could get a gf if he just TRIED and had other things going for him.

 

or him http://www.celebrityplasticsurgery.tv/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/carrot_juiced_sholders.jpg

 

 

It seems to me, anecdotally, that the range of looks on men is smaller than it is on women.

 

There aren't really that many truly hideous men, barring obesity or other physical trauma, and even then, the male body seems to 'spread' fat better than the female one dose.

[Cracker Jack]

To be honest, I think I'm a good (Not too nice or too mean. Just in the middle) guy. I think I'm okay in terms of looks, but I often get a good amount of positive attention from women, and have had good chances with women--so if I blame my lack of success on my looks, it'd be a total lie. There are different types who give off this attention, so it's no particular type. I'm just not good when it comes to talking to them. I have SA, which really makes the simplest things (Interacting with people in general) difficult. So, I suppose that would put me in the anti-social category.

 

I have lost count of the times I've been anxious to get as far away as possible from a woman that was talking to me because I was scared and clueless about what to do. It's so pathetic and I don't know what to do to stop this. Once you factor in the few times I've been rejected (I was friends with these women, so it wasn't too hard telling them my feelings) because of my height, and the fact that my friend (Who I was somewhat dating) merely used me then went back to her ex, I just feel like I'm way behind at 23. I'm very inexperienced when it comes to women, and it just sucks. Aside from women I've known for a good bit, I've asked out absolutely no women at all. I'm in college and asked out 0 women.

 

Overall, I'm not bitter towards anyone, and think I can still improve. In my position, tho, it's really a lot more difficult than it sounds.

[Mike B.]

Overall, I'm not bitter towards anyone, and think I can still improve. In my position, tho, it's really a lot more difficult than it sounds.

 

 

That is a good attitude. You ever thought about seeking professional help for your SA?

[Cracker Jack]

^Thanks.

 

A few yrs back, I attended therapy for about eleven months for my SA. It was pretty effective--and I believed I had improved significantly. I honestly thought I no longer needed therapy, and instead of continuing, I decided to see how better I've truly gotten. At first it was all good; I was doing more interacting with people than I've ever done. But, I eventually turned into my old, unconfident self again. Simply put, I left therapy earlier than I should've.

 

The more I was around people, hearing about their relationships, careers, hobbies, the more I just began to feel out of place, like I wasn't worthy to be around them because I had none of those things. I just felt like they were all above me. Then when people would invite me to places, like parties, I would just make up a lie so I wouldn't go. I have to consider going back to therapy, because I doubt I can improve on my own. And if I don't improve, I'll never experience a relationship.

 

If I'm derailing the thread, I apologize.

[deebeechrisyo]

I don't think your SA was ever "gone", you just learned how to deal with it. Somewhere down the road you forgot how, or refused to continue doing what was working. I really don't think anxiety is curable.

 

I still have SA but I've learned to deal with it. I'm much better now. I still feel anxious whenever I approach girls but I follow through now, whereas back then I wouldn't have. Just think, girls like confidence, and what better display of confidence is there than being able to ask for a girl's number with a sometimes debilitating trait like social anxiety trying to hold you back.

 

Think of SA as something completely independent of your personality, because in a way it is. It's just something that is there, like a birthmark. Imagine a guy with only one eye who asks for a girl's number. Women will see that and say "wow that guy is very confident!". Having SA is kind of the same thing, just that it isn't visible to the outside world.

[Green]

I don't think your SA was ever "gone", you just learned how to deal with it. Somewhere down the road you forgot how, or refused to continue doing what was working. I really don't think anxiety is curable.

 

I still have SA but I've learned to deal with it. I'm much better now. I still feel anxious whenever I approach girls but I follow through now, whereas back then I wouldn't have. Just think, girls like confidence, and what better display of confidence is there than being able to ask for a girl's number with a sometimes debilitating trait like social anxiety trying to hold you back.

 

Think of SA as something completely independent of your personality, because in a way it is. It's just something that is there, like a birthmark. Imagine a guy with only one eye who asks for a girl's number. Women will see that and say "wow that guy is very confident!". Having SA is kind of the same thing, just that it isn't visible to the outside world.

 

I don't mean to derail the point you were making but its not about asking a girl for her number. The contact info will stem naturaly from you being brave enough to SHOW INTEREST. Whats the best way to show interes A) aproach and talk to them B) have fun (u know be flirty) C) ASK THEM OUT (get the contact info whether they say yes or no)

 

DOn't make the contact info your goal or a step that needs to come before asking them out.... ASK OUT FIRST... If you meet a girl you like and instead of saying let me get your number you just say "lets get a bite to eat" and she says "yes" of course you are going to get her number...

[nddb]

I noticed a thread on how a sweet guy can't get any attention from girls. I don't think that is true at all. I think it is something guys say to avoid looking at themselves.

 

So if you're a nice guy and you're not getting any dates, there are a few things to consider:

 

1- Are you nice but a little anti-social? If you don't make the effort to talk to women, they can't know how nice you are.

 

2- Are you perhaps a little subpar looking? It sucks, but everyone wants someone they find attractive. That doesn't mean you're doomed if you're ugly, short, bald, or fat. But do the best you can with what you have. Make an effort with your clothes (casual stuff doesn't have to be ratty), manage your facial hair, try to keep your weight at a healthy level, get a good hair cut, and buy some breath mints.

 

3- Are you noticing who is into you? Are you fixating on girls who have made it clear they aren't interested? Recently I was at a wedding where there was only one single guy and about 20 single women. One of my friends was interested in the lone single guy so she tried to talk to him repeatedly but she couldn't engage him. The lone single guy had completely focused on another girl, despite the fact that said girl had already told him she had no interest in him. Now maybe he just didn't find my friend attractive (though she is cute), but personally I think he was so focused on winning over the girl who wasn't interested that it didn't even occur to him to interact with anyone else. There were 20 single girls there and the only people he talked to were his guy friends, their significant others, the bride and groom, and a chick who isn't interested.

 

4- Have you asked out every girl in your social circle? Yeah, I know it is the reverse of the other issue, but it can be a problem too. In my experience it is much rarer, but I've known a few guys who had asked out every single girl they knew. No one wants to be with someone who would take anyone. Everyone wants to feel a bit special. If you ask out a girl and she says no, don't turn around and ask out her best friend. She's going to know she was second choice. If you ask out a girl because you think you were getting the vibe but she says no, take it well. Shrug and say "You can't blame a guy for trying." Be nice to her, but don't think you're going to wear her down. Give it some time before you ask out any of her friends. If one of her friends strikes you fancy, be friendly but give it at least a couple of weeks before making a move. That way she can feel like you asked her out because you like her and not because you're working your way through everyone.

 

5- Are you not really a nice guy? Cocky behavior is one thing, it isn't my thing but it can be charming. But lots of the dating tips for guys just mean acting like a dick. And truth is, some girls will go for it. They are generally low self-esteem drama queens, but I won't deny it works. Who it won't work with is a girl who is nice and has some self-esteem. She might hang out with you, but she's pretty unlikely to date you. Actual charming people make others feel better about themselves.

 

6- Do you kind of hate women? Do you think things like "Women never like nice guys!" "Women are illogical!" or "Women like to blame other people and never take responsibility for themselves!" Then you aren't a nice guy so stop complaining about how women don't like nice guys.

 

7- Do you look too hard for signs that she isn't interested? If you ask a woman if she'd like to go to dinner on Tuesday and she says no, but she could go Thursday she is interested. If she isn't texting you or calling you but she regularly accepts dates, she's either not a phone person, really busy, or feels uncomfortable calling guys who she has just started seeing. It doesn't mean she isn't interested.

 

Very well put and helpful.

[that girl]

So, as I entered college I just decided I didn't care and would act however I like. That worked really well. Over time I often pushed the limits of what behavior the women I dated would accept. I've found you have MUCH more leeway at being mean than you do being nice. The trick is to constantly provide attention and a high level of sexual interest.

Haven't you had some pretty awful experiences with women post-high school that led to your issues with American women?

 

My guess is that has a lot to do with your tendency to push the boundries of bad behavior as far as you can.

 

But seriously... arrogance, selfishness, jerk type, and abusive behaviors all seem to blend together to spell Self Confidence to most women here.

 

I know there are differences in social circles, but I struggle to come up with arrogrant, selfish jerky guys my friends have gone for. Post-college, I can't think of one. That isn't saying every guy I know is perfect, we all have our selfish moments, but they aren't jerks.

 

That leaves us with two possibilities, either I have unusually high self esteem having friends or you assume every guy who is successful with women has these traits.

[Green]

I'm in my later 30s and have had about 10 dates, none which have led to a second date.

 

1- yes, I don't approach because I don't want to be shot down and risk being called a creep.

 

Creep is something women say, there isn't always logic to it. I've been called a creep... and guess what it was funny... in fact My own gf has called me a creep and a perv berofe... so just get over it. and TRY and stop being SCARED

 

2- I'm a bit overweight and I have no idea what to do when it comes to clothes. A number of women have said they like how I look. I don't really know where I stand here.

 

Just buy clothes that the maniquens are wearing and as for being overwieght you should want to be physicaly fit and eat right for your own comfort and well being . (and yes it will make you look sexier) but plenty of out of shape crapily dressed people get dates and gf's so don't let that hold you back.

 

3- No one has approached me in all these years. I've never noticed anyone interested though most men' date=' let alone women, can read body language far better than I can. I'm really clueless here.[/quote']

 

Why don't you just approach women you like and assume they enjoy being approached until they give you an obvious sign like "don't ever talk to me again" say they say "I have to go to the bathroom" just assume they had to go to the bathroom don't read into things.

 

4- I've never asked out any woman in my social circle. Why would I want to ruin a friendship' date=' which is what I fear would happen? My social circle is not very big as it is.[/quote']

 

Because u have urges and want more then friendship... as a single guy you really shouldn't want to be "friends" with attractive women... u shoujld want to date them

 

5- I think I'm a nice guy and it seems to me to be the type of nice guy who can't get dates.

 

You also seem like a guy stuck in his ways unwilling to try what is sugested out of fear and self pitty. Yeah you sound like a nice guy

 

6- I've blamed just about everybody out of frustration' date=' but I've blamed other men more than women and I blame myself a lot.[/quote']

 

how about you stop blaming people and just do something about it, use your hornyness and need for human companionship as a motive.

 

7- If she makes a list of requirements and I meet all but one I don't contact her. I think she may be offended if I did. A few women have sent out flirts in the online dating. I liked what they had to offer very much' date=' but I don't think I met their requirements so I didn't respond. If a woman says "no" to a date once I don't contact her again. I don't think she'd be very happy if I did. [/quote']

 

why don't you worry about making urself happy, you can't control what other people think. As long as you are respectful thats all you can do. Its not disrespectful to ask people out on dates.

[Untouchable_Fire]

Haven't you had some pretty awful experiences with women post-high school that led to your issues with American women?

My guess is that has a lot to do with your tendency to push the boundries of bad behavior as far as you can.

 

I did that mostly around 18... my first year of college. I actually met a girl around that time and we got married when I was 20... then divorced at 23. I learned alot about relationships from that. Plus I got a big dose of why divorce sucks... even with no kids involved.

 

I'd say I wasn't the best of BF's from age 23-26... I had about 5 different GF's in that period and I did all the dumping. I was not a great BF.... I would classify my behavior as fairly selfish. I was just dating the wrong type of girl. I was going after the prettiest girl I could find... somewhat regardless of personality. I think that is why I was always dissatisfied in the relationship.

 

26-31 I've dated about 5 different girls. It's a totally different dynamic because starting at 26 I had a good career and had lots of money. I was much more mellow. I focused on being romantic and sweet, but not being a pushover. Results were pretty bad. 2 cheated, 1 constantly required me to buy her gifts, and 1 was so jealous it was crazy but flirted with every guy in the room. The bright spot is that right now at 31 I'm dating someone who is AMAZING!

 

The whole time I assumed I was just doing something wrong. Now I realize that the women I dated were just either crazy or low quality.

 

I know there are differences in social circles, but I struggle to come up with arrogrant, selfish jerky guys my friends have gone for. Post-college, I can't think of one. That isn't saying every guy I know is perfect, we all have our selfish moments, but they aren't jerks.

That leaves us with two possibilities, either I have unusually high self esteem having friends or you assume every guy who is successful with women has these traits.

 

It's not really that simple. It could be that because your intelligent in these things your attracted to friends who are as well. Usually the more superficial, or self centered a person is the more likely they are to be unable to differentiate these traits.

 

I can only speak in terms of my own experiences.

[Floridaman]

1- yes, I don't approach because I don't want to be shot down and risk being called a creep.

You gotta take chances, Gamma, just like when you look for a job. You don't have to apply for a certain job, but you won't get it if you don't apply.

 

I'm a bit overweight and I have no idea what to do when it comes to clothes. A number of women have said they like how I look. I don't really know where I stand here.

Do you have a female sister, cousin or other relative who might be able to give you some advice in the store about clothing that will look well?

 

Speaking of cousins and relatives, ask them if they know a girl that might be interested in you. I met my future wife on a blind date from a married female business colleague who had been setting her best friend up on blind dates. I was the last blind date my wife had...

 

I've never asked out any woman in my social circle. Why would I want to ruin a friendship, which is what I fear would happen? My social circle is not very big as it is.

You're missing out if you don't at least try in your social circle. You already know these women so you're ahead there as you have some things in common already.

 

If they say no, it won't be the end of the world. Just keep pushing and you'll eventually find some success.

 

If you feel nervous about asking out someone you already know, please carefully consider some women you know that you could ask out. It might pay off, Gamma.

 

I only recently realized I could have asked out a girl I sat next to in college. She was always making conversation with me, but I never picked up on this. I had at least one thing in common with her: that class. My mistake and loss for not considering asking her out.

 

Gamma, I suspect you're no longer on LS, like another user I've PM'd.

I sent you a PM.

I'd like to comment on your situation and perhaps give you some help.

 

If you're finding some success in dating and that's why you're not here anymore, that's a great reason.

 

I've been where you were in my late 20s and please know that we only wish the best for you, Gamma.

Edited December 4, 2010 by Floridaman