justasking1 Posted November 4, 2010 Posted November 4, 2010 I work in an undeveloped part of the world where there are no counseling services and I have few foreigners I can talk to about personal issues so I'm hoping to get some much needed insight and perspective here. I've been with my partner for a couple of years. We met here where I work, through work. He's from this part of the world--very different culture, though he's more western thinking and advanced than most and we don't have issues about cultural differences, but more general personality issues. We live and work together. The thing that makes life hardest for me in this relationship is that he tends to get angry and snap. It used to be much worse but with my bringing this to his attention, using books to guide, using the internet for advice, he's improved. He genuinely made an effort to understand and change and I was grateful. But it still comes out from time to time and I'm at the end of my patience. I tried to allow for the fact that this is a culture where people don't learn emotional intelligence, without giving up my own principles and needs, but there is a limit. Something happened today to make me seek outside help. We're both linguists so it seems to be given that we can chat about language. He used a religious word in greeting online that I've never seen him use before and isn't commonly used at all where we live as that religion is virtually non-existent here. Given that he's never used it and no one uses it, I wondered where he picked it up. I was just thinking, "wow, that's interesting. Unusual." So I asked how he thought to use the word. That was it. The upshot of the response, and the kind of thing that exemplifies the anger, was this. "Why can't I use a word like...?" "Why do you have to ask me why I use...?" "You're trying to control me..." And delivered in an angry voice, loudly, as usual. I tried to address that calmly, although felt deeply sad and hurt inside. I replied that "I never said you can't use a word like... just asked why you chose that word." I asked if he honestly believed my asking why he used that word meant I was trying to control him. Would asking if he drunk tea this morning meant I was triying to control him? I feel that, in a relationship, you need to be able to question and discuss anything, without fear of verbal or physical abuse in response. During a fairly intense negative period a few months back I got online and searched and showed that his anger when I tried to ask basic questions, his interrupting when I tried to talk, was the psychological equivalent of physical abuse. He also has a very irritating habit of, when I choose to raise my concerns about his behaviour, not only does he not let me finish the sentence, but he'll blame me for doing the same thing, even if I don't actually do it. It goes like this: I raise my concern... and he interrupts, raise his voice and says: "You do ABCDEF" and anything he can think of so I don't get to finish expressing my concerns. It makes me lose respect for him because I know he knows what he’s saying isn’t true. How can you respect someone who won’t listen and, worse, creates more conflict at the expense of the relationship and the person they claim to love? He’s been doing this since the beginning and it makes me so mad, that despite his promises to stop it, he still does it. At several points in our relationship I introduced fighting fair and I explained that if he truly believed those are my issues he has every right to raise them, but he knows that, in the interests of fighthing fair, raising them in the middle of my trying to raise concerns about him is not fair and it's destructive. I lose respect for him because not only does he not follow through on his promises to learn not to do that (he has promised so many times), but that if he truly believed I was guilty of that thing he would have made the effort to raise it separately. But he knows very well that he's just deflecting attention from himself. I just feel like, when push comes to shove, he cares about his own ego and being right more than anything else, including the good of the relationship. I almost always challenge him unless I know I’ll say something I’ll regret, and sometimes I’ve failed and said things I regret, but lately I’ve said that if he even dares to speak like that in front of my family he’ll be out on the street. I asked him directly if my parents were standing here would he speak to me the way he does when he seems to be possessed by some arsehole spirit? He says no, but it doesn’t make any difference as it keeps returning. It was around that time that I had had it and abstained from any sexual contact because I was so fed up and hurt. Nothing I did or said made him take my concerns seriously. The thought of engaging in anything sexual made me feel sick. It wasn't until a week or so of refusing that he finally asked if something was wrong. It took his needs not being met for him to notice I was unhappy. I felt extremely hurt that he didn’t notice my unhappiness until he didn’t get sex or that he didn’t even put two and two together that the last time I showed any interest was just before he became angry again. It was then, when I had his attention, that I explained that I wasn't really unwell, but that I was very pissed and why. I held my calm and read out the various pieces of info online about abusive relationships. He was really upset and embarrassed and made sincere attempts to change. When I likened him to the psychologically abusive equivalent of his father he finally took notice. I was impressed that he didn’t react angrily to that, but actually listened. But it didn’t last long. But it keeps coming back. It's worse that there is no one here to hold him accountable and that there is no obvious evidence of his abuse because it's not physical. On top of that, women generally don’t stand up to men here and I would be seen as a trouble maker by most women and men here so no one would really empathise with my position. I don’t let that stop me standing up for myself, but I just don’t get any support. His father was extremely abusive to them as children and it doesn't surprise me that he has anger problems. But I'm really past the point of having to be the teacher for the student who doesn’t seem to want to learn. He has internet access most days, he knows how to use it, and yet he spends time on other things. I have to be both the emotional intelligence teacher as well as the one that gets the slap in the face. I can't be both. The irony is that he works in “women’s empowerment” fields. I asked if he tells the people he works with how he verbally abuses me in the home, or if he writes about his abuse on his facebook friends profiles or in the links he puts up about social justice. Of course he doesn’t tell them. Am I over reacting? Do you have suggestions? What would you advise someone in this position? What would you advise someone in his position? If I had any family or friends here I’d move out and be with them until something changed, but I don’t have that. I have a lot invested in work here and would need time to disengage from that. I fully intend to show him these responses because I feel he needs perspective from people that think more the way I do than the culture that doesn’t support women being as outspoken as I am. I have hang ups and insecurities too. My greatest one is being lied to or cheated on. He lied to me many times early on in our relationship. I know for a fact. He admitted it, but only after I discovered the lies for myself, as confirmed by others or by accidentally discovering them. He never actually admitted them of his own will and it took hours and sometimes days of arguing to get him to admit the truth. He maintains he never actually physically cheated, but he did lie about things that related to other women. Now, when he doesn't seem to be telling the truth, behaves uncharacteristically or gets defensive when I ask a simple question, I feel uneasy. My challenge is believing someone who gets defensive out of proportion to the issue at hand. I find that very difficult. He’ll get angry when or if he sees this, predictably, as he’ll say I misrepresented him to others. So be it. I have no one to talk to and I need my side of the story heard by people who can probably be supportive. The hardest thing is that there really are no counsellors. I've tried and asked around and they don't exist. I know there are a lot of issues here. I appreciate your thoughts and advice. Thank you very much.
nikayla Posted November 4, 2010 Posted November 4, 2010 In most cases, if you have to ask, then you already know that he is abusive. You state that he a part of the women's empowerment movement, but can you define who female empowerment is in that region? Your American definition of equality may differ vastly from that of his culture's. His verbal backlashes may be a conglomeration of childhood abuse, a short temper, and the language barrier (even with your linguistics background, I bet some things still get lost in translation). This frustration may be expressed as anger when it truly is not. Can you seek out a religious leader or mentor for support and counseling? He or she may better address your relationship issues from the culture's perspective. And since women get little support there, I suggest you do this discreetly--as you wouldn't want to bring attention to yourself. Lastly, if you are not happy, then maybe going your separate way is best. I wish you the best of luck in making your decision.
carhill Posted November 4, 2010 Posted November 4, 2010 OP, if you have freedom of movement, I'd utilize it. IMO, no one should be another's 'therapist'. I'm assuming you're a foreigner to the local area and are temporarily or permanently able to work in-country. Correct as appropriate. Since I live in a very culturally diverse area of the US where traditions still exist from the 'old world', I see such behaviors as you describe fairly often. Men treating their wives/partners in ways which generally are culturally frowned upon here but 'work' in their microcosm of the 'old ways', perhaps due to the women knowing no other reality. You know how things should be in a healthy relationship. You've exercised patience, compassion and understanding. IMO, continuing in an unbalanced relationship will further erode self-esteem and promote resentment, neither of which portends well for healthy long-term growth or prosperity. As our MC put it, you have a decision to make.
TheMENemy Posted November 4, 2010 Posted November 4, 2010 I work in an undeveloped part of the world where there are no counseling services and I have few foreigners I can talk to about personal issues so I'm hoping to get some much needed insight and perspective here. I've been with my partner for a couple of years. We met here where I work, through work. He's from this part of the world--very different culture, though he's more western thinking and advanced than most and we don't have issues about cultural differences, but more general personality issues. OK. Reading between the lines, you're working somewhere in Africa for some kind of governmental or NGO. This guy is a somewhat westernized local who you met on the job. The way this guy is behaving is probably something that's culturally-related. Most likely, in his original culture, women keep their mouths closed. Period. This is never going to change no matter what you do. Sometimes these cultural divides just can't be crossed so easily.
Author justasking1 Posted November 5, 2010 Author Posted November 5, 2010 Thank you very much. Your (all) responses are very spot on and it's a relief to share the burden and receive very thoughtful insight. The empowerment is basic, where the west was 50 years ago, enabling women to get jobs and decision-making positions. Women do mostly stay quiet and certainly don't challenge someone, as I do. A few do, though, and I support them. Even his Mum challenges his Dad and his Dad helps out in the house which virtually no men do. His father takes heat from local men about it but tells them to go jump. He himself is helpful in the house--much better housekeeper than me and loves doing it. I'm grateful for that. That's the bizarre thing. He doesn't care about gender roles at home, but just behaves like a you know what. When I said that all the cleaning inthe world doesn't detract from a man who gives you a black eye (symbolically) he got it, but didn't make a difference. I'd much rather live in a dirty, loving home than a clean abusive one. I've been here almost 5 years and work closely with women. But I'm not willing to compromise my core values or my happiness and my family. My Dad would be horrified if he knew my partner was verbally abusive as they took great pains to raise us as strong people and my Dad has been very generous towards him, extremely generous. You would think that alone would generate some kind of big picture thinking--but no. Not that generosity dictates that someone should be cowtowingly grateful, but a little bit of mindfulness would be expected. The thing is, he knows better. He's educated, he is well read, he has worked with foreigners for a long time and knows his behaviour is not acceptable. He expresses this knowledge and, watching him with the women, I know he believes in equality, but has major issues with his own anger, temper and ego. Even if he was born and raised in a western nation, he'd still have the same issues. He takes his temper out equally on men as women. It's not limited to me, which is a relief, but doesn't make it any easier to take. I've seen him lose it with ordinary people, especially men, who did nothing wrong. I did confide in two of his more liberal friends who sympathised and acknowledged the problem. He even promised to be accountable to one of them and openly admitted the problem to his friend and I thought there may be real progress. That was a big step for someone with ego issues. He visited with him once, but the promise was to make it a regular thing. He didn't. It reminds me a lot of someone who has an addiction and can't stick with the program. We don't drink or smoke by the way so there are no issues on that side of things. He genuinely seems to be sorry and confused that he can't control his anger, he reads spiritual guides, zen guides, psychological stuff but approaches it like a project and then forgets about it a week later. Several times i pointed him in the direction of online help but he didn't act on it other to copy and paste some information. One curious thing happened recently. His little bro visited. My partner said something to me in a commanding way and I was about to tell him to do it himself when his brother piped up and commented (bravely, since young people are not supposed to question seniors) "Are you turning into our father?" He got it in one. I was like, well, if he can see it, I'm not going crazy. I stepped back to watch. My partner seemed to miss the point altogether and brushed off his younger brother's comment as if it is irrelevant because he's younger, yet my partner is the one to openly suggest older people must listen to the youth. He's extremely hypocritical. Extremely lacking in self-awareness. Full of himself. I feel I'm becoming someone I don't like and I promised myself I wouldn't let that happen again. I try to remain patient but I get angry and shout because remaining patient doesn't work, withholding doesn't work, it's like nothing works. I've been in very good, healthy relationships in the past and one much worse than this--both extremes. I've dealt with someone's ego and anger before and this is really child's play in comparison, but it still hurts and I'm at a loss as to how to make him understand it is not acceptable and I cannot tolerate this. I don't want to live with him like this for the rest of my life. I don't want my children to be raised by someone with his anger. I don't want them to be subjected to that. We don't have children and part of the reason I've ensured that is there is no way I would allow them to be brought up by the person he is now. And I don't want them to be subjected to the me that gets to upset now. One idea I thought of is to bring it right out in the open among a select group of men from his home village. I'm on very good terms with everyone. I brought a lot of opportunities there and they value that. They know of his anger and know that I have issues with it. They would resent him if they knew I left because of his temper. They'd want to do something to help. Part of me thought, what if we sat down with these men and I explained the issue and that my partner needs to be held accountable for his actions. That I will leave if he doesn't change. That I know I'm here, but where I come from, and where we plan to move to next year, this is not acceptable and my family will reject him. It's like the addiction thing. You have to be accountable to more than yourself and one other person. You can easily deceive yourself and one person, but it's much harder to deceive yourself with more people involved. It's dawning on me that this may be very like that. The negative is that people would start talking but, really, I don't think that's the end of the world. Maybe everyone could learn something from it. There are good things, of course, but they don't outweigh this emotional pain anymore. There is a religious pastor/counselor but even my open-minded friends who are highly religious said he's probably not the right person because he doesn't psychological issues and probably wouldn't be much help. I thought, if they say that, and they are big church goers, it may not be the best. My problem is if I leave I have to pack up house and move across the world. There's no going back. I don't get a second chance. It's too expensive to go and come again. I have a lot invested emotionally and love being here, a little financially, but I can forgo that. I know it may just have to happen and that's ok. It will break my heart to leave here, but it may well break in a different way if I stay in this relationship. Thank you though. I do appreciate your helpful words and thoughts.
britchick Posted November 5, 2010 Posted November 5, 2010 Wow, that's a lot of information. What stuck out for me is that you are tolerating behaviour that you wouldn't if your family could see it. Now, your family (I hope!) love and treasure you and if you can look at your relationship through their eyes, what do you see? Someone that treats you with love and respect but has some flaws? Or someone whose actions/attitude towards you are basically at odds with what you/them would find acceptable. If you two lived together in your home country, how would you feel about his behaviour towards you? If you think to yourself, I would never tolerate this at home, you have to ask yourself why you are tolerating it now. It's a difficult thing to overcome behaviour learnt in childhood, doubly so if that behaviour is endorsed by the society it exists in (as an aside, people seem to become more and more like their parents the older they get and less liberal, could this get worse, not better?) It seems that tolerating this behaviour is completely at odds with your upbringing and expectations. What are the factors contributing towards this? A love of your work? Is there anyway you can stay and not live with him? Are you sure the country, work and a way of life are the things you really love, perhaps not him?
nycgirl6 Posted November 8, 2010 Posted November 8, 2010 My last relationship was with an Iranian guy who came to America in his teens, and this sounds very similar. I finally decided to find a man who I didn't have to teach the basics of civility to. I want one already "cooked". I feel relieved to have gotten rid of him (although he stills calls once in awhile, and I talk to him to see if he's learned anything on his own and nope, he never does).
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