Author Spark1111 Posted November 11, 2010 Author Posted November 11, 2010 I felt power as the BS, because my serial cheating SO's always chose me in the end, they always stayed with me. I felt like they never could abandon me. Their bond with me was too strong. Ugh! This did not empower me! This would feel too much like I won a competition for a prize of some sort. Certainly after DDAY, I did not find him any sort of prize, and I wasn't prepared to be anyone's default choice. We had to start from ground zero, and that was after several months when I could not stand the sight of him and he could no longer stand the sight of her. What a mess! One I certainly did not deserve. And I agree with you Jennie: I don't own him. He could have had his relationship with her, he only had to be truthful about it and separate respectfully. But he lied about it for so long, under the guise of keeping his family together, that is was a joke: His deception and secrecy almost blew his family apart WAAAAY more than declaring his feelings for her ever would.
jennie-jennie Posted November 11, 2010 Posted November 11, 2010 I'm sorry, I guess I'm having trouble understanding bonds. Are you saying that MM has a comperable bond with his W then? I'm not doubting your bond, but it seems that if your bond was the strongest bond of all, then leaving his W would be a relatively easy choice for him. Yet, he continues to choose what I assume you might say is the lesser bond, meaning his W. And your SO's were bonded to you as well, yet they all cheated on you, which I would consider to be disrespectful and damaging to that bond. I guess I'm having a hard time understanding what good a bond is if it doesn't encourage one to act (as in MM), or it doesn't keep one from causing damage (as in the xSO's). I'm also unclear on how these bonds would cause you as a fBS to become an OW? Yes, these MM who are in extramarital relationships with a deep level of emotional involvement have double bonds, that's the problem. They are bonded to two women, for different reasons. The fact that my SOs had problems with sexual addictions was a problem within themselves, and really had nothing to do with our bond.
jennie-jennie Posted November 11, 2010 Posted November 11, 2010 I'm also unclear on how these bonds would cause you as a fBS to become an OW? I became an OW after having been a BS because I fell in love with a man that was married. Period. There is nothing more to it. I never held it against the OW of my SOs that they felt love and/or lust towards my SOs, nor do I hold it against myself that I feel love and lust towards my MM. Just like I understood that they wanted to be with the man they loved and/or lusted for, I want to be with the man I love and lust for. It isn't any more complicated than that. I'm from a hedonistic culture. We do what gives us pleasure.
Author Spark1111 Posted November 11, 2010 Author Posted November 11, 2010 Yes, these MM who are in extramarital relationships with a deep level of emotional involvement have double bonds, that's the problem. They are bonded to two women, for different reasons. The fact that my SOs had problems with sexual addictions was a problem within themselves, and really had nothing to do with our bond. During my fWS....midlife crisis? Split-self? Depression? Confusion? In addition to his emotionally bonded OW, he also was trawling the waters with old high school girlfriends, frequented porn sites and strip clubs, and just opened himself to all sorts of potential experiences outside of our marital relationship. Yet came home here and cooked (he loves to cook) every holiday dinner for extended family. What a great family guy! I know she never knew that. I hope she would never find out. Let her think she was the love of his life. Why have any more pain result from this affair? But I still cannot understand how having been through the pain of betrayal, something that still affected her during the affair with my H, she allowed herself to believe he would be different, and it would not hurt me? In the same way she had been devastated by her xH? Maybe her picker was broken.
jennie-jennie Posted November 11, 2010 Posted November 11, 2010 During my fWS....midlife crisis? Split-self? Depression? Confusion? In addition to his emotionally bonded OW, he also was trawling the waters with old high school girlfriends, frequented porn sites and strip clubs, and just opened himself to all sorts of potential experiences outside of our marital relationship. Yet came home here and cooked (he loves to cook) every holiday dinner for extended family. What a great family guy! I know she never knew that. I hope she would never find out. Let her think she was the love of his life. Why have any more pain result from this affair? But I still cannot understand how having been through the pain of betrayal, something that still affected her during the affair with my H, she allowed herself to believe he would be different, and it would not hurt me? In the same way she had been devastated by her xH? Maybe her picker was broken. Spark, don't you understand that you were irrelevant? In the big scheme of love you didn't matter. Just like we can enjoy a good meal although we know other people in the world are starving. Just like we can allow ourselves to have a life style which takes more than our share of the world's resources, when other people do not have enough to live a decent life. You do this although you have empathy, right? Just like most people in the western world do. Oh sure, you might give a little to charity to sooth your conscious, but still, you wouldn't switch places with them. Neither would the OW give up her love just so you could have it.
sally4sara Posted November 11, 2010 Posted November 11, 2010 I've been cheated on at least a couple times that I know of. Still never slept with a married person. So when do I get my medal of recognition?
Snowflower Posted November 11, 2010 Posted November 11, 2010 But I still cannot understand how having been through the pain of betrayal, something that still affected her during the affair with my H, she allowed herself to believe he would be different, and it would not hurt me? In the same way she had been devastated by her xH? Perhaps because her xH was one of those rare MM who left his wife for the OW. Maybe she assumed this would happen in her situation with your husband, as well. Or maybe her father left her mother for someone else, who knows. That's the only way it makes sense to me!
OWoman Posted November 11, 2010 Posted November 11, 2010 So for a previously BS, could the step to become an OW be a desire for EMPOWERMENT? While I definitely hold that being an OW is potentially one of the most empowering Rs one can have, there are many OWs whose experience is the opposite The disempowered BS who goes on to become a disempowered OW gets a double whammy...
PortuguesePrincess80 Posted November 11, 2010 Posted November 11, 2010 While I definitely hold that being an OW is potentially one of the most empowering Rs one can have, there are many OWs whose experience is the opposite The disempowered BS who goes on to become a disempowered OW gets a double whammy... I agree with that! Maybe in the moment the OW/OM feel the empowerment..but when D-Day rolls around...thats gone down the drain...yet once again!
Author Spark1111 Posted November 11, 2010 Author Posted November 11, 2010 Perhaps because her xH was one of those rare MM who left his wife for the OW. Maybe she assumed this would happen in her situation with your husband, as well. Or maybe her father left her mother for someone else, who knows. That's the only way it makes sense to me! Snow, I believe ALL of the above holds true! Good insight!
Author Spark1111 Posted November 11, 2010 Author Posted November 11, 2010 While I definitely hold that being an OW is potentially one of the most empowering Rs one can have, there are many OWs whose experience is the opposite The disempowered BS who goes on to become a disempowered OW gets a double whammy... Truly, truly heartbreaking I agree. In those cases I would hope these women can afford GOOD therapists (trust me there are bad ones) and learn to empower themselves and go on to have rewarding relationships.
ladydesigner Posted November 11, 2010 Posted November 11, 2010 While I definitely hold that being an OW is potentially one of the most empowering Rs one can have, there are many OWs whose experience is the opposite The disempowered BS who goes on to become a disempowered OW gets a double whammy... This is me and it sucks and I am still extricating my self-esteem from the mud.
donnamaybe Posted November 12, 2010 Posted November 12, 2010 I'm sorry, I guess I'm having trouble understanding bonds. Are you saying that MM has a comperable bond with his W then? I'm not doubting your bond, but it seems that if your bond was the strongest bond of all, then leaving his W would be a relatively easy choice for him. Yet, he continues to choose what I assume you might say is the lesser bond, meaning his W. And your SO's were bonded to you as well, yet they all cheated on you, which I would consider to be disrespectful and damaging to that bond. I guess I'm having a hard time understanding what good a bond is if it doesn't encourage one to act (as in MM), or it doesn't keep one from causing damage (as in the xSO's). I'm also unclear on how these bonds would cause you as a fBS to become an OW?Wow. When you lay it out like that it's kind of difficult to miss the conundrum here. How can it be both ways? If there IS such a strong bond, yes, one would think a person could easily leave their spouse for their AP. No excuse would keep me from the person I truly loved (i.e. kids, finances, etc.)
donnamaybe Posted November 12, 2010 Posted November 12, 2010 The fact that my SOs had problems with sexual addictions was a problem within themselves, and really had nothing to do with our bond. I'm from a hedonistic culture. We do what gives us pleasure.So how can someone who lives in a hedonistic culture where folks simply do what gives them pleasure be diagnosed with sexual addictions? That's absolutely a contradiction. Wouldn't a psychologist from that culture simply state he's just doing what makes him feel good? And why would it be considered a "problem" if that's what everyone does and it's expected?
Author Spark1111 Posted November 12, 2010 Author Posted November 12, 2010 Spark, don't you understand that you were irrelevant? In the big scheme of love you didn't matter. Just like we can enjoy a good meal although we know other people in the world are starving. Just like we can allow ourselves to have a life style which takes more than our share of the world's resources, when other people do not have enough to live a decent life. You do this although you have empathy, right? Just like most people in the western world do. Oh sure, you might give a little to charity to sooth your conscious, but still, you wouldn't switch places with them. Neither would the OW give up her love just so you could have it. Well then I do not believe she is very evolved or educated in areas or affairs, familial relationships, or strong self-esteem issues. She, despite her career and education, did not educate herself to the causes of affairs and the kinds of people who have them and the reasons why. Love schmov. You would think after being in one failed relationship after another, a person would stop blaming external factors and start to introspect as to why these disasterous choices abound in their life. Is their picker broken? Do they undervalue themselves to the point that they seem to always accept unacceptable behavior? Why is that? Or, lonely with no better options out there? Addicted to romantic dramas? EVERY SO's fault? When patterns of behavior emerge...I would think it SHOULD BE a big red flag to that person. As for being irrelevant to her "love," ok. But empathy? I was often abused as a child as my mother declined into mental illness. When I had my children, I educated myself regarding good parenting, good coping skills, proper communication, so I would NEVER make the same mistakes or parent the same as my mother. My children adore me and have turned out very successfully. I feel blessed. I guess some people, even intelligent and educated people, never try to change the course of destructive behaviors.
PortuguesePrincess80 Posted November 12, 2010 Posted November 12, 2010 Well then I do not believe she is very evolved or educated in areas or affairs, familial relationships, or strong self-esteem issues. She, despite her career and education, did not educate herself to the causes of affairs and the kinds of people who have them and the reasons why. Love schmov. You would think after being in one failed relationship after another, a person would stop blaming external factors and start to introspect as to why these disastrous choices abound in their life. Is their picker broken? Do they undervalue themselves to the point that they seem to always accept unacceptable behavior? Why is that? Or, lonely with no better options out there? Addicted to romantic dramas? EVERY SO's fault? When patterns of behavior emerge...I would think it SHOULD BE a big red flag to that person. As for being irrelevant to her "love," ok. But empathy? I was often abused as a child as my mother declined into mental illness. When I had my children, I educated myself regarding good parenting, good coping skills, proper communication, so I would NEVER make the same mistakes or parent the same as my mother. My children adore me and have turned out very successfully. I feel blessed. I guess some people, even intelligent and educated people, never try to change the course of destructive behaviors. I applaud you on that girl! I wouldn't have been able to post that with getting some infraction...which I have been getting a lot lately! Wonder who those the tough cookies are that keep on reporting me ... 2 guesses...none of which I will say! Either way...you are absolutely right...although I dont think the intellectual and educated need apply in this scenario. Either way when you think its okay to tell your children its ok to be involved with a married man...and let them parade around and tell everyone about it...well...sheesh need I say more?
jthorne Posted November 12, 2010 Posted November 12, 2010 I guess some people, even intelligent and educated people, never try to change the course of destructive behaviors.How funny. A dear friend has a thread on this on a different board. Why would they change the course of destructive behaviors when they can use them as an excuse? I submit that by not changing the course they are only hurting themselves in the end, but whadda I know.
jennie-jennie Posted November 12, 2010 Posted November 12, 2010 Well then I do not believe she is very evolved or educated in areas or affairs, familial relationships, or strong self-esteem issues. She, despite her career and education, did not educate herself to the causes of affairs and the kinds of people who have them and the reasons why. Love schmov. You would think after being in one failed relationship after another, a person would stop blaming external factors and start to introspect as to why these disasterous choices abound in their life. Is their picker broken? Do they undervalue themselves to the point that they seem to always accept unacceptable behavior? Why is that? Or, lonely with no better options out there? Addicted to romantic dramas? EVERY SO's fault? When patterns of behavior emerge...I would think it SHOULD BE a big red flag to that person. As for being irrelevant to her "love," ok. But empathy? I was often abused as a child as my mother declined into mental illness. When I had my children, I educated myself regarding good parenting, good coping skills, proper communication, so I would NEVER make the same mistakes or parent the same as my mother. My children adore me and have turned out very successfully. I feel blessed. I guess some people, even intelligent and educated people, never try to change the course of destructive behaviors. She can have empathy for you, ie feel sorry for you, even if it doesn't change the decisions she makes. As far as her dysfunctional patterns go, perhaps she is working on them, it is a slow process.
jennie-jennie Posted November 12, 2010 Posted November 12, 2010 How funny. A dear friend has a thread on this on a different board. Why would they change the course of destructive behaviors when they can use them as an excuse? I submit that by not changing the course they are only hurting themselves in the end, but whadda I know. I saw that thread. Dreamingoftigers has some really insightful posts well worth reading in that thread: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?t=251684
jennie-jennie Posted November 12, 2010 Posted November 12, 2010 So how can someone who lives in a hedonistic culture where folks simply do what gives them pleasure be diagnosed with sexual addictions? That's absolutely a contradiction. Wouldn't a psychologist from that culture simply state he's just doing what makes him feel good? And why would it be considered a "problem" if that's what everyone does and it's expected? There is a difference between drinking a glass of wine because you enjoy the taste and being an alcoholic. There is a difference between eating food sufficient enough to keep you alive and healthy and having bulimia. There is a difference between enjoying what life has to give you and being a sexual addict.
jennie-jennie Posted November 12, 2010 Posted November 12, 2010 And for that matter, why are you not more accepting of your MM sleeping with his wife? After all, you are from a hedonistic culture, so you of all people should be understanding if he chooses to have sex with his wife Because part of my pleasure is knowing my MM is exclusively mine.
PortuguesePrincess80 Posted November 13, 2010 Posted November 13, 2010 Because part of my pleasure is knowing my MM is exclusively mine. Here is the definition of EXCLUSIVE in case you didn't know: 1. excluding all else; rejecting other considerations, possibilities, events, etc: an exclusive preoccupation with money 2. belonging to a particular individual or group and to no other; not shared: exclusive rights ; an exclusive story 3. belonging to or catering for a privileged minority, esp a fashionable clique: an exclusive restaurant 4. limited (to); found only (in): this model is exclusive to Harrods 5. single; unique; only: the exclusive means of transport on the island was the bicycle 6. separate and incompatible: mutually exclusive principles 7. ( immediately postpositive ) not including the numbers, dates, letters, etc, mentioned: 1980--84 exclusive 8. except (for); not taking account (of): exclusive of bonus payments, you will earn this amount 9. commerce (of a contract, agreement, etc) binding the parties to do business only with each other with respect to a class of goods or services 10. logic Compare inclusive (of a disjunction) true if only one rather than both of its component propositions is true — n 11. an exclusive story; a story reported in only one newspaper None of which apply to you and this mm who ISNT married to you!
seren Posted November 13, 2010 Posted November 13, 2010 (edited) I am confused, I thought he had slept with his wife just a few months ago. Apologies if I have this wrong JJ, but didn't you post about this? Yours? surely not, after all we don't own people, now do we? (said tongue in cheek) Edited November 13, 2010 by seren more bla bla
dreamingoftigers Posted November 13, 2010 Posted November 13, 2010 This makes sense to me in some aspects but for me personally, I am just the opposite. Before my H had an affair, I didn't really give infidelity a lot of thought. It never occurred in my parents' marriage (that I was aware of-I'm very positive that it didn't) and it seldom happened in the marriages of my friends, relatives, colleagues, etc. Oh sure, I heard about it from time to time. But, it didn't really affect me since I hadn't experienced it up close. After all the pain and confusion I went through, there would be no way in H*LL I would be a participant in infidelity again. Either as a BW or as an OW. I've seen firsthand how affairs usually end and the pain for everyone involved and how affairs don't usually work out. I've had my brush with infidelity that will last me a lifetime. I remember for a long time after my husband's affair, I felt that my life had been "tainted" by something awful. At least I could say it was not of my own doing. I wouldn't want to bring it again through my own actions. I have felt the exact same way. I do think it is the worst thing that can happen to a woman besides the death of her children and in happier cases, the death of her family members, but I have not been close enough to mine to know.
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