ladydesigner Posted November 9, 2010 Posted November 9, 2010 This is of interest to me, LD..... My H was really angry at himself and I was growing frustrated with his depression and poor me attitude.... I think he sought to blame me, or at least punish me, for what he PERCEIVED was a lack of love or attention on my part....when in reality, he was truly angry at himself. Some projection there. So who does he choose as his OW? A woman also angry, bitter almost, at her xH who married his last AP. It tainted everything he held dear....and it only works because the only person in the world who would encourage you on that path is none other....than your AP! This is a great post Spark. My anger is something I am working on now. I have never faced it head on like I am now. It is my anger that has led me here and you are right my XAP encouraged that anger in me and I made the CHOICE:mad:
jennie-jennie Posted November 9, 2010 Posted November 9, 2010 An OP is only borrowing a bird that belongs to someone else. It is not in your hand. Morally or legally. How hard is it to understand that a human being can not be owned. How hard is it to understand that there is not just one true set of morals. How hard is is to understand that it is not illegal to have both a wife and a girlfriend (ie the OW).
pureinheart Posted November 10, 2010 Posted November 10, 2010 How hard is it to understand that a human being can not be owned. How hard is it to understand that there is not just one true set of morals. How hard is is to understand that it is not illegal to have both a wife and a girlfriend (ie the OW). I guess it is difficult for some, although not for me, I control no one, or nothing.
thomasb Posted November 10, 2010 Posted November 10, 2010 How hard is it to understand that a human being can not be owned. How hard is it to understand that there is not just one true set of morals. How hard is is to understand that it is not illegal to have both a wife and a girlfriend (ie the OW). Having been in the service and lived a lot of different places in the world, I've seen no where yet that lying and cheating is acceptable behavior. I also have never seen anywhere it is acceptable to break promises and vows to be faithful.
thomasb Posted November 10, 2010 Posted November 10, 2010 I guess it is difficult for some, although not for me, I control no one, or nothing. True, but there is something called self control. Affairs, including my own, would not happen if more people exhibited a little more of it.
Author Spark1111 Posted November 10, 2010 Author Posted November 10, 2010 Sometimes this works the other way around. The BS (now xW) in my situation was first a WS. While she had absolutely no moral qualms shagging around on her BH, she was completely outraged when it happened TO HER. It wasn't that she thought infidelity was wrong - she'd never had a moment's regret for her own; it was that she thought it was wrong FOR SOMEONE ELSE TO DO IT TO HER. This too is of interest to me OW. We are all somewhat egocentric when it comes to our feelings, belief systems and actions. We do love to justify our own behaviors. Where it becomes problematic is where it becomes extreme, as in, "it's only right when I do it, because my needs are greater than anyone else's." Narcissim? Hystrionics? Self centered? Self-deluded? Unfortunately, I think your H xW is not all that unusual, IMHO.
jennie-jennie Posted November 10, 2010 Posted November 10, 2010 Having been in the service and lived a lot of different places in the world, I've seen no where yet that lying and cheating is acceptable behavior. I also have never seen anywhere it is acceptable to break promises and vows to be faithful. Morals can differ on an individual and/or cultural basis. The tendency to keep promises and vows can differ on an individual and/or cultural basis. The tendency to view the obligation to keep the marital vows as the WS' responsibility and not the OW/OM's varies on an individual and/or cultural basis.
donnamaybe Posted November 10, 2010 Posted November 10, 2010 How hard is it to understand that a human being can not be owned. How hard is it to understand that there is not just one true set of morals. How hard is is to understand that it is not illegal to have both a wife and a girlfriend (ie the OW).How hard is it to understand that, "universally" speaking, lying is just wrong? I've taught my kids that. Don't we all?
jennie-jennie Posted November 10, 2010 Posted November 10, 2010 How hard is it to understand that, "universally" speaking, lying is just wrong? I've taught my kids that. Don't we all? I agree that lying is wrong, which is why I am a very honest person and I also encourage my MM to be. As well as my kids of course. Unfortunately my MM is not from the same culture as I am, so the public shaming of broken vows is worse to him than the lying necessary to hide the extramarital relationship.
Brokenlady Posted November 10, 2010 Posted November 10, 2010 This too is of interest to me OW. We are all somewhat egocentric when it comes to our feelings, belief systems and actions. We do love to justify our own behaviors. Where it becomes problematic is where it becomes extreme, as in, "it's only right when I do it, because my needs are greater than anyone else's." Narcissim? Hystrionics? Self centered? Self-deluded? Unfortunately, I think your H xW is not all that unusual, IMHO. This is something my therapist refers to as a "jaw-dropping inability for empathy." You'd think having it done to them would humble them to consider the impact of their own behavior, but it doesn't because there is just no capacity for empathy there.
Brokenlady Posted November 10, 2010 Posted November 10, 2010 I think it's also possible that some BS's become OW because it looks (from the outside) like a good deal for the OW, particularly when the MM leaves his W for the OW. No question in my mind that DM's xW thinks we rode off happily into the sunset. That delusion has led to a real fouling up of his daughter's sense of justice in the world. To the outside, it looks like we got off scott-free, but of course, you all know how badly I've gotten scathed. And so maybe for xW it looked to her like a good deal to her to be the OW for a change - to be the one getting the "good part", to be the one with the knowledge rather than the one in the dark.
jennie-jennie Posted November 10, 2010 Posted November 10, 2010 This is something my therapist refers to as a "jaw-dropping inability for empathy." You'd think having it done to them would humble them to consider the impact of their own behavior, but it doesn't because there is just no capacity for empathy there. But an extramarital relationship is not "done to them". The BSs are just an unfortunate casualty of a love relationship being that one (or both) of the participants is married.
Author Spark1111 Posted November 10, 2010 Author Posted November 10, 2010 This is something my therapist refers to as a "jaw-dropping inability for empathy." You'd think having it done to them would humble them to consider the impact of their own behavior, but it doesn't because there is just no capacity for empathy there. This is the part I try to wrap my head around! And I love the phrase, "jaw-dropping inability to empathize.":) And I guess this thread is an attempt to understand why that seems to so often happen. Is it truly a lack of empathy for others? Or does it become that over time?
Snowflower Posted November 10, 2010 Posted November 10, 2010 I think it's also possible that some BS's become OW because it looks (from the outside) like a good deal for the OW, particularly when the MM leaves his W for the OW. No question in my mind that DM's xW thinks we rode off happily into the sunset. That delusion has led to a real fouling up of his daughter's sense of justice in the world. To the outside, it looks like we got off scott-free, but of course, you all know how badly I've gotten scathed. And so maybe for xW it looked to her like a good deal to her to be the OW for a change - to be the one getting the "good part", to be the one with the knowledge rather than the one in the dark. I'm glad you brought this up, BL Particularly the bolded part. I had thought of the same thing but didn't quite know how to say it as a BS. I've read here several times from some former BW-turned-OW that their xH had left them for the OW. So maybe in their minds (speaking generally of course), the MM they are currently involved with will leave their marriage for them. :love: I think you bring up a likely scenario. Of course, it is just generalizations but I think it makes sense in some situations along with the fact that some people feel the need to even the score.
Author Spark1111 Posted November 10, 2010 Author Posted November 10, 2010 I think it's also possible that some BS's become OW because it looks (from the outside) like a good deal for the OW, particularly when the MM leaves his W for the OW. No question in my mind that DM's xW thinks we rode off happily into the sunset. That delusion has led to a real fouling up of his daughter's sense of justice in the world. To the outside, it looks like we got off scott-free, but of course, you all know how badly I've gotten scathed. And so maybe for xW it looked to her like a good deal to her to be the OW for a change - to be the one getting the "good part", to be the one with the knowledge rather than the one in the dark. I think this is a great point BL! Whether realized or not, whether it be conscious or not, knowledge is EMPOWERING. So for a previously BS, could the step to become an OW be a desire for EMPOWERMENT? Because few experiences are more self-esteem shattering, feeling NO POWER or a total loss of power, than the discovery that the spouse you trusted had a secret affair with another.
Author Spark1111 Posted November 10, 2010 Author Posted November 10, 2010 I'm glad you brought this up, BL Particularly the bolded part. I had thought of the same thing but didn't quite know how to say it as a BS. I've read here several times from some former BW-turned-OW that their xH had left them for the OW. So maybe in their minds (speaking generally of course), the MM they are currently involved with will leave their marriage for them. :love: I think you bring up a likely scenario. Of course, it is just generalizations but I think it makes sense in some situations along with the fact that some people feel the need to even the score. SF, another great point! Some may just want that feeling of empowerment. Others may have a little more sinister motive; they may feel a little more vengeful whether realized or not: They have a score to settle. The revenge affair.
thomasb Posted November 10, 2010 Posted November 10, 2010 [/b] SF, another great point! Some may just want that feeling of empowerment. Others may have a little more sinister motive; they may feel a little more vengeful whether realized or not: They have a score to settle. The revenge affair. I think you all are right. The sad thing is they are hurting a totally innocent person in the process. And themselves.
thomasb Posted November 10, 2010 Posted November 10, 2010 How hard is it to understand that, "universally" speaking, lying is just wrong? I've taught my kids that. Don't we all? Apparently not everyone thinks that deception and breaking vows made before God is wrong. At one time I was no exception, however, I have done everything in my power to repent those mistakes and make things right.
jennie-jennie Posted November 10, 2010 Posted November 10, 2010 I think this is a great point BL! Whether realized or not, whether it be conscious or not, knowledge is EMPOWERING. So for a previously BS, could the step to become an OW be a desire for EMPOWERMENT? Because few experiences are more self-esteem shattering, feeling NO POWER or a total loss of power, than the discovery that the spouse you trusted had a secret affair with another. I felt power as the BS, because my serial cheating SO's always chose me in the end, they always stayed with me. I felt like they never could abandon me. Their bond with me was too strong.
jennie-jennie Posted November 10, 2010 Posted November 10, 2010 Apparently not everyone thinks that deception and breaking vows made before God is wrong. At one time I was no exception, however, I have done everything in my power to repent those mistakes and make things right. True. Most people here where I live do not believe in God, and they don't believe that vows are to be kept solely because you once made them. If you wouldn't make the same vow today, then it is time to break it. Interestingly enough, there isn't even a word for "commitment" in my language.
anne1707 Posted November 10, 2010 Posted November 10, 2010 Jennie You seem to be contradicting yourself. First of all you say that the BS has no influence etc over the WS and AP: I would call it a "jaw-dropping inability to empathize" that the BS don't understand that they have little or no impact on the love relationship between two consenting adults. Is it truly a lack of empathy for others? To think that they would play a part in someone else's love relationship? But in your very next post, you say that when you were the BS, your SO could never leave you because the bond was too strong: I felt power as the BS, because my serial cheating SO's always chose me in the end, they always stayed with me. I felt like they never could abandon me. Their bond with me was too strong. How can there be no influence when the bond is too strong to break?
donnamaybe Posted November 10, 2010 Posted November 10, 2010 I would call it a "jaw-dropping inability to empathize" that the BS don't understand that they have little or no impact on the love relationship between two consenting adults. Is it truly a lack of empathy for others? To think that they would play a part in someone else's love relationship? How can you empathize (or not) with a situation you know nothing about? Go ahead. Tell the wife. Let's see if she "empathizes."
jennie-jennie Posted November 10, 2010 Posted November 10, 2010 Jennie You seem to be contradicting yourself. First of all you say that the BS has no influence etc over the WS and AP: But in your very next post, you say that when you were the BS, your SO could never leave you because the bond was too strong: How can there be no influence when the bond is too strong to break? It is two separate relationships. And remember, my exSOs were serial cheaters with sexual addictions which is completely different than a long term extramarital relationship with deep emotional connection. The longest any of their multiple relationships lasted was half a year. More common was a night or a week, perhaps a month. Also I feel the same power as the OW today. My MM is not able to break our bond either because it is too strong. This power has nothing to do with the parallel relationships my SOs had, or the marriage my MM has, it is a characteristic of the bond I have with the men in my life. I've never had a man leave me.
jthorne Posted November 11, 2010 Posted November 11, 2010 It is two separate relationships. And remember, my exSOs were serial cheaters with sexual addictions which is completely different than a long term extramarital relationship with deep emotional connection. The longest any of their multiple relationships lasted was half a year. More common was a night or a week, perhaps a month. Also I feel the same power as the OW today. My MM is not able to break our bond either because it is too strong. This power has nothing to do with the parallel relationships my SOs had, or the marriage my MM has, it is a characteristic of the bond I have with the men in my life. I've never had a man leave me.I'm sorry, I guess I'm having trouble understanding bonds. Are you saying that MM has a comperable bond with his W then? I'm not doubting your bond, but it seems that if your bond was the strongest bond of all, then leaving his W would be a relatively easy choice for him. Yet, he continues to choose what I assume you might say is the lesser bond, meaning his W. And your SO's were bonded to you as well, yet they all cheated on you, which I would consider to be disrespectful and damaging to that bond. I guess I'm having a hard time understanding what good a bond is if it doesn't encourage one to act (as in MM), or it doesn't keep one from causing damage (as in the xSO's). I'm also unclear on how these bonds would cause you as a fBS to become an OW?
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