One Of Lifes Mysterious Universal Riddles....

[The-Zen-Warrior]

For the longest time I have been curious about one particular thing, in regards to marriage separations, annulments and the big tamale...divorce!

 

Say you have a married couple, married 10 years, good house, 2 cars, a child both work respectable jobs ect. ect. ect. Say one day one of the spouses either by choice or other has an affair! After a while the dark deed comes to the surface and is exposed for all to see. Say that this hypothetical scenario plays out with a divorce. The disenfranchised spouse does the finger pointing of blame, you dirty spouse, you cheated, you had an affair in me, you broke my trust ect. ect ect.

 

Why is it in most cases the departing spouse, normally the one who cheated and did bad deeds, why is it they almost always assume no blame for how things played out? Why is it that the cheating spouse almost always feels victimized and disregards the cheating as a normal function? Why is it that the cheating and departing spouse almost always points the finger of blame towards the victimized spouse, who in essence did nothing wrong?

 

I only ask all of this, for I would seriously like to know about the psychology of a spouse, who has been proven to have done wrong, like cheating and such, why do they act like they "walk on water" and everyone else, namely the victimized spouse, the one left behind, why do they dish the blame out to them?

 

Do "true blue" cheating spouses have some sort of screw loose? Is their internal wiring in their heads short circuiting? Or is it the most dreaded answer of them all, is it because they just don't give a damn?

 

Please chime in here, now is your turn to play the role of "Doctor Phil" and let us know why you think spouses who cheat, when departing the marriage, sometimes behave in the way that I have described above!

[strength-abounds]

Zen

 

In my opinion, the departing spouse plays victim to eleviate any and all blame he/she may be experiencing from deciding to break those sacred wedding vow. That's the same bull***t my ExW gave me, then decided to lay in any man's bed that showed her attention that she wasn't getting from me after she moved out.

[worlybear]

IMO the betrayer plays the victim card because they haven't got the guts to admit they're in the wrong and it's easier to put the responsibility onto someone else. After all it's the WS who could've saved everyone a lot of heartache by finishing the marriage/relationship and then moving on.... yeah right and I just saw me a flying pig!

[eamherst14051]

Guilt..........Guilt..........Guilt

[strangeways]

Guilt..........Guilt..........Guilt

 

What eamherst said. Oh yeah, and selfishness.

[BettyBoo]

I think they do this to deflect attention away from their own wrongdoing. If I can divert blame and attention to someone else it means the heat is off me.

 

I know of similar situations where a cheating wife decided to play the victim and alienate her husband from the family. Why did she do this? Because she wanted to be seen as a victim to retain her position of control and manipulation. Victims have to be protected. There is also another basic factor - people who do nasty crap have no sense of moral responsibility therefore it is not a surprise when they accept no responsibility or accountabilty when their actions come to light .

Dont expect good behaviour from a prat

[TaraMaiden]

For the longest time I have been curious about one particular thing, in regards to marriage separations, annulments and the big tamale...divorce!

 

Say you have a married couple, married 10 years, good house, 2 cars, a child both work respectable jobs ect. ect. ect. Say one day one of the spouses either by choice or other has an affair! After a while the dark deed comes to the surface and is exposed for all to see. Say that this hypothetical scenario plays out with a divorce. The disenfranchised spouse does the finger pointing of blame, you dirty spouse, you cheated, you had an affair in me, you broke my trust ect. ect ect.

 

Why is it in most cases the departing spouse, normally the one who cheated and did bad deeds, why is it they almost always assume no blame for how things played out? Why is it that the cheating spouse almost always feels victimized and disregards the cheating as a normal function? Why is it that the cheating and departing spouse almost always points the finger of blame towards the victimized spouse, who in essence did nothing wrong?

 

I only ask all of this, for I would seriously like to know about the psychology of a spouse, who has been proven to have done wrong, like cheating and such, why do they act like they "walk on water" and everyone else, namely the victimized spouse, the one left behind, why do they dish the blame out to them?

 

Do "true blue" cheating spouses have some sort of screw loose? Is their internal wiring in their heads short circuiting? Or is it the most dreaded answer of them all, is it because they just don't give a damn?

 

Please chime in here, now is your turn to play the role of "Doctor Phil" and let us know why you think spouses who cheat, when departing the marriage, sometimes behave in the way that I have described above!

 

There's a difference between 'Blame' and 'Responsibility'.

 

The Blame for the cheating, lies with the wandering spouse.

The Responsibility for the structure of the marriage lies with both spouses.

Sometimes, people confuse the two.

There is no excuse for cheating.

But there are reasons the cheating spouse feels are relevant, for their cheating.

The blame lies with the cheater.

The responsibility must be discussed.

[iheartboobs]

Beats me, Zen, but I got texts from the ex just yesterday concerning this exact same phenomenom.

 

-She texted to tell me I needed to forgive her.

-I told her no.

-She told me she forgave her ex boyfriend who cheated on her and a week later he died so I needed to forgive her because I didn't know how much longer she'd be around.

-I told her if she promised to die in a week I'd be happy to forgive her.

-She asked why I was so mean.

-I said it was because I didn't like her.

-She asked why I didn't like her.

-I said because she left me and 4 months later she was screwing one of my friends.

-She told me if I'd treated her more like a person and less like my property things might have happened differently (she considered me to be controlling because, when she went out to the bar until 2 or 3 in the morning, I wanted her to call me and let me know she was okay).

 

So yeah, she left, started dating a friend of mine without telling me, told me she wanted to work on the marriage (while still secretly dating the friend), and after I found out about all this she tells me it's my fault for treating her like my property.

 

She takes no responsibility for the marriage going south, no responsibility for the separation, and no responsibility for the affair... to her, it's all my fault. I'm with you, Zen, what the hell is wrong with these people?

[HopelessinDTW]

I agree with most of what has already been mentioned. What I would add is that, I think the spouse that does the cheating has a personality disorder to some degree. If you look up borderline personality disorder, you'll see that the cheater in many cases has a lot of the traits of a person with BPD. My stbx can lie to me without a blink of an eye, and the next minute do the complete opposite. She can be the nicest person on the face of the earth once minute, then turn into a fiery dragon the next...without any warning. I also think the cheater has also has in some cases childhood issues that are unresolved, and these affect you in adulthood. My stbx also has low-self esteem, always needed to be acknowledged for her successes, always needed someone to tell her how great of a person she is, etc. She would always tell me about how she did great things at work, and how stupid the people around her were. I always felt that she needed to feel important and better than the people around her to make her feel good. Her closest friends are not married, they are not very attractive, do not make as much money as her, etc. She always associates with those that make her look good when they are around her. Her 'friends' are just puppets, and they tend to agree with whatever she says and does. Whenshe doesn't get that acknowledgement, she tends to break off that friendship. I think in many ways that's what happened to me. I didn't always agree with her, didn't bow down to her every request, and pointed out her faults...she didn't like that. At the end, she decided to end our marriage like those friendships she had with people she didn;t agree with.

[Woggle]

Personal accountability is a foreign concept to them.

[nikayla]

The-Zen-Warrior:

 

You should seriously watch an episode of Cheaters. The reactions when the cheaters are caught range from "You work all the time...I was lonely" to (a bunch of expletives) followed by a street brawl. Many cheaters are manipulators who believe that they are above commitment and fidelity...what I don't understand is the spouses who take them back...REPEATEDLY!

[Woggle]

And if they didn't work all the time it would be because they are a loser and she doesn't feel provided for. You can't win with these types.

[iheartboobs]

I agree with most of what has already been mentioned. What I would add is that, I think the spouse that does the cheating has a personality disorder to some degree. If you look up borderline personality disorder, you'll see that the cheater in many cases has a lot of the traits of a person with BPD. My stbx can lie to me without a blink of an eye, and the next minute do the complete opposite. She can be the nicest person on the face of the earth once minute, then turn into a fiery dragon the next...without any warning. I also think the cheater has also has in some cases childhood issues that are unresolved, and these affect you in adulthood. My stbx also has low-self esteem, always needed to be acknowledged for her successes, always needed someone to tell her how great of a person she is, etc. She would always tell me about how she did great things at work, and how stupid the people around her were. I always felt that she needed to feel important and better than the people around her to make her feel good. Her closest friends are not married, they are not very attractive, do not make as much money as her, etc. She always associates with those that make her look good when they are around her. Her 'friends' are just puppets, and they tend to agree with whatever she says and does. Whenshe doesn't get that acknowledgement, she tends to break off that friendship. I think in many ways that's what happened to me. I didn't always agree with her, didn't bow down to her every request, and pointed out her faults...she didn't like that. At the end, she decided to end our marriage like those friendships she had with people she didn;t agree with.

 

Wow dude. Just... wow.

 

Were we married to the same woman? I could not describe my ex wife any more accurately than that. It's simply uncanny.

 

Seriously, dude, thank you for that... I always knew my ex was never really happy no matter how hard I tried, but she always told me it was nothing until she left, and then she told me it was my fault. I always felt there was something wrong with her and it couldn't have been all my fault, but it feels really great to be able to put a name to it.

[sumdude]

Wow dude. Just... wow.

 

Were we married to the same woman? I could not describe my ex wife any more accurately than that. It's simply uncanny.

 

Seriously, dude, thank you for that... I always knew my ex was never really happy no matter how hard I tried, but she always told me it was nothing until she left, and then she told me it was my fault. I always felt there was something wrong with her and it couldn't have been all my fault, but it feels really great to be able to put a name to it.

 

Yeah no doubt. In fact when I looked up BPD when the D was going down it reminded me of my ex wife too. Lying was second nature, she had a messed up childhood, she was unable to make really deep bonds with people for any length of time. Every job started out with "I love my new boss and job. 2 - 12 months later the boss is an ogre and work is full of enemies.

 

She really did have some issues, I'm not just saying that cause she broke my heart years ago cheating, lying and leaving. It make it easier to forgive to a point. Cause somebody way back in her life really messed her up and she just didn't know any better and couldn't seem to help herself. Man I feel for the poor man she married after me.

 

Now i wouldn't say everyone whose ever cheated has to have some sort of personality disorder. But... at some level they have the ability not to care as much and convince themselves that they are justified. Some people are thieves and Ok with it.

Edited November 4, 2010 by sumdude

[YellowShark]

...now is your turn to play the role of "Doctor Phil" and let us know why you think spouses who cheat, when departing the marriage, sometimes behave in the way that I have described above!

 

Very simple. There is no way to defend what is indefensible - (the affair.) So the cheating partner deflects onto the faithful partner and demonizes them.

 

Every job started out with "I love my new boss and job. 2 - 12 months later the boss is an ogre and work is full of enemies.

 

She really did have some issues, I'm not just saying that cause she broke my heart years ago cheating, lying and leaving. It make it easier to forgive to a point. Cause somebody way back in her life really messed her up and she just didn't know any better and couldn't seem to help herself. Man I feel for the poor man she married after me.

 

My EX to a tee. She went through several jobs and every single one ended in failure. It always started off as wonderful and ended badly for some excuse or another. She also broke my heart by cheating, lying, but in my case I left when the final affair was revealed.

[PhiloDog]

Sign me up as an ex (as of today at 8:30am) of a BPD spouse! Crazy how you find out all this stuff they thought internally, but never voiced it until it was time to leave. She blames me for the affair, yet I know she had it because of the way he looked/s at her and made her feel. Of course, it made her feel that way--it was the beginning of a relationship, not a marriage.

 

It's not really that much of a surprise now, seeing how she trades in friends and jobs when they don't pander to her. Once she found out I wasn't going to follow her around like a puppy for the rest of her life, she wanted out. These people trade in spouses/jobs/friends/aspirations like their cars.

 

I think a lot of it does come down to low-self esteem. They need fresh new bodies to make them feel good. When they've used it up, time to move on.

[Woggle]

I am starting to think there is a manual that these women read because the stories are the same no matter where I hear them.

[iheartboobs]

I am starting to think there is a manual that these women read because the stories are the same no matter where I hear them.

 

Well, when I looked up BPD, the article I read said that something like 10% of women have it, so the chances of meeting and getting into a relationship with someone like that aren't exactly remote. It doesn't help that people with disorders are usually really good at acting normal, either... I thought my ex wife was the most sane and logical woman I'd ever been with until we got married.

 

It also doesn't help that pretty much every woman I've ever met seems overly emotional, illogical, and at least a little bit crazy to me.

[HopelessinDTW]

Well, when I looked up BPD, the article I read said that something like 10% of women have it, so the chances of meeting and getting into a relationship with someone like that aren't exactly remote. It doesn't help that people with disorders are usually really good at acting normal, either... I thought my ex wife was the most sane and logical woman I'd ever been with until we got married.

 

It also doesn't help that pretty much every woman I've ever met seems overly emotional, illogical, and at least a little bit crazy to me.

Well, I don't want to bash women here, but in general women tend to make decisions based more on emotion than men. So to a certain degree, that may manifest itself as illogical. And it's also true that both men and women put on an 'act' when they first meet to make themselves someone they are not....to some degree.

 

In my particular case, until we separated I didn't realize how bad of a compulsive lier my stbx was. I starting thinking back to things that she said that didn't make sense, and realized the reason why they didn't make sense was because they were untrue. In fact, I could look back to instances that occured over 10 years ago and figure out that they were lies, I actually spoke to her old friends that she "threw away", and asked them about these instances. Well, in basically all cases, she lied to me so that I would side with her. You see lying is manipulation. If the truth hurts, they turn to lying to make themselves feel better, make themselves out to be something better than they really are. It's all a band-aid to deep seeded problems they have that they just can't resolve, or don't want to deal with.

 

Another thing to look out for is the immediate family. In my case the MIL is a nutjob to say the least. My stbx throughout our marriage told me this, and has told me that the MIL has gone from one anti-depressent med's to another. So if there is clues within the family of some mental illness, then there is also a chance that the stbx could have these problems. I only wish I knew this 12 years ago, but hey you live and learn....

[2sure]

Its so that they can live with themselves.

Dont forget too that these same WS are remorseful, repentant, aplogetic...until the divorce comes. Then they turn on you again.

For me, it was as if my H was saying all the right things and when I stopped believing him and gave up...he became the wronged spouse.

I never once, to him or anyone defended my actions in divorcing.

[YellowShark]

Its so that they can live with themselves. Dont forget too that these same WS are remorseful, repentant, aplogetic...until the divorce comes. Then they turn on you again.

 

Yup. I caught my EX in-the-act with a MM and it was her second affair in our 7-year relationship. Once I had moved out her tune is now "It wasn't going to work out anyways because of all his issues." End of sentence. I guess thats how she lives with herself and what she did.

 

Ya, I DO have issues with her having two affairs!

 

Well, when I looked up BPD, the article I read said that something like 10% of women have it, so the chances of meeting and getting into a relationship with someone like that aren't exactly remote. It doesn't help that people with disorders are usually really good at acting normal, either... I thought my ex wife was the most sane and logical woman I'd ever been with until we got married.

 

Same here. My EX was smart, witty, pretty, really fun-to-be-with. Then after a couple years together came the reality, she burnt nearly every bridge she crossed, she lied, she cheated, she drank, she couldn't hold a job for more than a year, she spent wildly.... and generally it was never her fault. Go figure.

Edited November 5, 2010 by YellowShark

[lapse]

Beats me, Zen, but I got texts from the ex just yesterday concerning this exact same phenomenom.

 

-She texted to tell me I needed to forgive her.

-I told her no.

-She told me she forgave her ex boyfriend who cheated on her and a week later he died so I needed to forgive her because I didn't know how much longer she'd be around.

-I told her if she promised to die in a week I'd be happy to forgive her.

-She asked why I was so mean.

-I said it was because I didn't like her.

-She asked why I didn't like her.

-I said because she left me and 4 months later she was screwing one of my friends.

-She told me if I'd treated her more like a person and less like my property things might have happened differently (she considered me to be controlling because, when she went out to the bar until 2 or 3 in the morning, I wanted her to call me and let me know she was okay).

 

That - the bolded part - that is some funny stuff. Good wit!

[willowthewisp]

Hi Zen

 

I saw your post on YGG thread but wanted to respons here so as not to thread jack.

 

I think with a cheater they are inherently selfish, they aren't happy with the relationship, probably b/c they don't feel they are getting what they want, Rather than leave (which one would AFTER trying to address and resolve any problems), they decide they are entitled to whatever it is they want and go out and get it. Somewhere, deep down they have had morals installed in them by their parents and society and they know what they are doing is wrong. So when they get caught and kicked to the curb, they have to defend themseleves by making it about the BS, they do this in order to maintain their sense of self as a good person.

 

So, unwilling to look at themself, to address their selfishness and inability to resolve relationship problems in a healthy and constructive way.

 

Want to know a good indication of a future cheater? Well, my thoughts anyway and I'm no expert, look at how they behave, how many relationships they have had and their views on sex.

[The-Zen-Warrior]

Want to know a good indication of a future cheater? Well, my thoughts anyway and I'm no expert, look at how they behave, how many relationships they have had and their views on sex.

 

Well Willow, your words here do make some sense! I wish at the ripe ole age of 21, when I got married to my ex-wife, I wish I knew this stuff. You say how there behave, well I think my ex-wife, at least at first behaved normally. During the courtship and then say the first 10-11 years of a 14 year marriage, I think she behaved well.

 

How many relationships she had before marriage, I think I remember her saying she only had a couple, one serious, the other just for poop's and giggles. Plus my ex-wife was only 18 when we married, she really didn't have time to do the whole dating thing after high school. So these two boyfriends were just high school sweet hearts, nothing that was ascertained in the "real world"!

 

And my ex-wife's views on sex, now this is something I should have focused in on better, when courting my ex-wife. I remember her a couple times, say within the first couple months of marriage, using the term, the "pussy is power"! I approached the topic several times wondering what she was talking about. Then with both words and body language, she would say with this (((pointing at her crotch))) a woman can have the world! And as the marriage progressed, I started to learn the even with me she was using her crotch as a tool.

 

I remember back to say 2002 when I entered the world of professional car sales. I know, I know, I know, I can just hear all the car salesman jokes out there right now. But I wanted to do it, see what it was all about. So I started working at a local Chevrolet dealership. This job was strictly a commission position, one pay check a month, what you sell is what you earn! I can remember about 4-5 months in, I blew the top off the roof in regards to anything I've ever earned in my life, it was a months I sold 27 cars and 3 trucks a total of 30 vehicles, that paycheck was approx. $10,500 dollars, for the month. My ex-wife for weeks after handing her that paycheck was giving it up to me "hand to fist", every night she was riding me like a government mule ((Happy times))!

 

Lets fast forward to the year 2007, almost 2008, the industry was slowing way down, the economical problems of the nation were quickly catching up to all areas employment, car sales included. In the final months of me being a car salesman I think the best I could do was dig up about $2500 to maybe $3000 a month, that was good in comparison to some other employees around the dealership, that were only scoring like $800.00 to maybe $1500.00 paychecks. When I would bring my paychecks home, and the money wasn't good enough or high enough, ((no government mule riding time for me)), she would then either tell me, no crotch ation for you with these numbers! Or she would "lay in wait" and just act like a ice cube when it came to bed time, no action, no riding, no talk, just "Not in the mood and go to sleep"!

 

So I learned or was re-reminded of what my ex-wife was saying in the very beginning that ((pussy is power)) and with it you can get the world! She was using it as a tool, a secret weapon if you will, if Zen gets the big money ACTION! If Zen brings home little money NO ACTION!

 

This pussy is power thing carried over into my life, even after I retired from car sales. In the final year of our marriage she cut me off from the action 100%, no more riding, no more action no more nothing! Heck, I could have found more action and intimacy with a man hole cover on the streets, than my wife! That is where I failed, I should have read into it a lot more when she kept referring to her crotch as being something of power and with it she could get the world.

Edited November 5, 2010 by The-Zen-Warrior

[TheMENemy]

I'm pretty lucky, my wife got most of the cheating out of her system during her first marriage.

 

Most of it.