prairiemoon Posted November 3, 2010 Posted November 3, 2010 will some of you please provide your opinions? i have been in a relationship with a man for 11 years. he's 57, i'm 48. we raised his/my children together and all seem to be thriving, attending uni, etc. two years ago, i had the opportunity to take a job on the other side of the world. because of his mother's failing health ( in another country from where our home is) and his 19 year old being an idiot, he would not move with me, instead he came back and forth and we saw each other approximately six months of the year. the company he worked for went bankrupt three years ago, and he was out of work for approximately a year. we have one of those not shared financial arrangements - you pay half, i pay half. of course, when he lost his employment, i paid all. a contract position became available in my company, and he got it. pay is lousy but the work is interesting, allows him to travel (which he loves to do) and to interact with high level managers. back in may this year - something changed - when i went home for a month, there was limited, if any, physical contact, and arguments when i least expected it. all of a sudden, his travel patterns changed and he was having to go to los angeles every three weeks. i sent him an interesting poem by cummings that spoke to me about how i felt and how i felt about him. he forwarded it to an email address that i had no access to. odd, i thought. out of the blue, we have a horrible week at work on this side of the planet, and two of my employees invite me on a shopping trip. we walk in the apple store, i'm tired and needing a treat, so i decide to buy an ipad. one of the girls pulls out her credit card and says 'this is from P, with love'. i was so pleased, got a bit teary eyed in the middle of the apple store. i missed him. however - none of it was adding up. so i sent him a general email asking about the state of our relationship, when he would be across next, and should i be concerned about anyone else. his response was an emphatic NO - that he wasn't even interested in a female cat, let alone another woman. fast forward three months, his mother is gravely ill in september, so i come home to look after some work being done on the house so he can go to her country and be with her. he was home with me for three days and was on his laptop constantly - something he has not done in the past. as i'd walk past, he'd quickly fiddle with the thing and shut it down. when he left for the airport, he asked his son to take him to the airport, and gave me a mere peck on the cheek as i was coming out of the bathroom to say goodbye - to go half way around the world. when he left, for the first time ever in our relationship, he's locked the safe, he's put away all his receipts in boxes, and his laptop that he left has a new password on it. i couldn't take it. my gut told me something was going on. so i tinkered and i tinkered until i got access to his computer. i still couldn't get to the email address that i had previously had access to, but i could get to all his documents. lo and behold, i found emails that he had cut and pasted from her, attached to the bottom of some sporting information he was writing. these emails were sent by a woman who obviously had known him intimately for some time, telling him how sexually appealing he was, how kind, gentle, strong, blah blah - you get the drift. so i dug more - and found where he had saved a horoscope compatability reading between a pisces and a cancer - he's a cancer. i'm a scorpio. enough said. the final straw, was going thru history and finding all kinds of wonderful youtube songs that he had saved and made a list of and some wonderful poetry that well, i never received. by the time he landed at his mother's country, i had written him an email saying 'get rid of pisces woman or we're done'. he wrote back that it meant nothing and he would get rid of her immediately. for two weeks while he was dealing with his mother, we were on skype arguing this point - he finally 'confessed' that he had gone on to match.com and had met her there, and that she was from colorado. as one might imagine, i had all kinds of glen close thoughts going thru my mind and boiled bunnies - he had sent her pictures of our home with our address, etc etc. i demanded his phone records, his credit card records and access to all his email accounts. of course, he had cleared all the incriminating emails in the account he was using to communicate with her. he agreed to send me the credit card records, but not his mobile phone records as he feared i would track her down and ruin this poor womans life. (it's important to note here, i'm a democrat, i don't own a gun, and i have never been in any sort of physical altercation). the man blatantly underestimated my resolve - i was a woman possessed. so i called the phone company and got all the phone records for his company phone (which is my company by the way) and had them sent to me. as i waited anxiously to receive them, i started goign thru his work email that he had given me access to. there were several emails between him and a general manager in los angeles (who i know, who is 35, married and the exact physical, emotional and personality type opposite of me) - inappropriate emails, her calling him 'an angel', her asking him to analyse her handwriting, inviting him to meet for cocktails, etc etc. i smelled a rat. so i emailed him and asked him to tell me about his relationship with her. she was just going thru surgery, was having trouble at home and was lonely, and so they just went t o dinner, blah blah. i asked him not to see her again, he agreed. at this point, i thought i had an entirely different problem on my hands, a middle aged man that is chasing anything that looks like a woman rather than a man trying to connect online with one woman. i went to a counselor three times with all the updates on how conversations were progressing. he was brilliant at assuring me i was not insane. he got home a week later. i picked him up at the airport, and just couldn't hold back - we got to the parking lot and i lit into him. i was devastated, crushed, etc. he had been withholding any emotional connection from me and giving it to this woman. two days later, we are sitting and discussing, and he says 'i'm tired of you driving me crazy, are you ready for the truth, because i am not going to give it to you. there never was a woman on match.com, it was only this woman in los angeles'. my first reaction was almost relief because i knew who she was and didn't have to worry about glenn close knowing where i live. and then i got pissed, and all the shock wore off and the pain set in. this woman, i'll call her S, is a classic man eater flirt who uses her wiles to get what she needs. i have seen her type a million times and she and i never got on well. he is incredibly apologetic and has been since being caught out. he has gone to counseling with me, and he has agreed to the no contact rule. she on the other hand, has not. sent him a linked in invitation - a convenient excuse to test the waters a month later. i told him, you need to call her and tell her again, no contact - if you really want us to work. i am back in the country that i work in, and he's in los angeles this week. he has made a very concerted effort to speak with me daily and provide me with his itinerary etc. i still don't trust him. my gut tells me that their connection, from what i read, was a deep one. he swears up and down that they did not have sex, i want to believe that so much (his doctor told him he's suffering from ED, and he found out that he has herpes a few years back, child of the 70s that he is! i have it too - merry christmas to that one) i'm going back home in three weeks for a month, and the plan now is for him to finally come here. the shrink told him, you have to decide what's most important - me or coddling a 19 year old that needs to grow up. so here's my questions that i'd value input on; 1. what are the chances that he was just feeling lonely and she paid attention to him and she could have been anyone? 2. he tells me that it only escalated in the last three months. his phone records seem to indicate that as they didn't talk on the phone much at all before that time. do EA's really escalate that quickly? and do men really and truly not see it coming? 3. he tells me that he didn't think about the consequences at all while he was interacting with her. does a man that truly loves you think that way? or does a man that is committed to you really think that way? 4. how do i know he won't do it again? this has been gut wrenching for me, i was an absolute wreck when i found out, digging thru things, paying a locksmith to crack the home safe, ridiculous stuff i have never done before. i felt like my life had been hijacked and i was going to lose everything i had - him included. 5. how do i know if he's worth the risk of trying again? we have committed for now, to work on our relationship and see where it goes. we are so incredibly compatible in the day to day stuff, i like that and would be truly devastated if it was gone. but i just can't go thru this again. 6. i sent her one email - i attached his phone records, and a copy of the email that he had saved from her. i said three sentences in the email: 1. do not contact me or any of my again for any reason. you have assistants you can work thru, please do so. 2. you have no idea the trauma that you have contributed to and how many peoples lives have been affected. 3. how dare you. was i wrong to send her an email? i did not threaten, nor am i interested in threatening, i wanted her to know that i know. 7. how do you combat a midlife crisis in a man? when we first moved in together, he was making HUGE money, and i was average - now, all this time later, the roles are completely reversed. I just want to know that all this heartache is going to be worth it. any input thoughts opinions would be welcomed with open arms. prairiemoon
BettyBoo Posted November 3, 2010 Posted November 3, 2010 You poor woman . How awful this experience has been for you. I dont have any advise to give however I am supporting a friend who is going through the same thing. She like you had a hunch that something was not right. There was no sex and he was sending inappropriate e mails to another woman. He went to a convention and ended up in bed with this woman. My friend confronted him on his return as she felt he had been sending e mails. She asserted that she knew he had met her even though she did in fact not know. So he confessed to sleeping with her in fact he then confessed he had an affair with her years ago also. She was devastated and left the home for a week to think what she might do. She returned to the family home and they have went to counselling. My friend is still not happy and feels she cannot trust him. She also phoned the other woman to tell her about how much hurt she had caused. The womans response was that she had nothing to say on the matter and had a lawyer send a letter to my friend not to contact her again! My friend was furious and is more upset now as she feels she has been belittled by both of them. You alone know what you can cope with and it seems that you need to draw up a clear plan of action with your husband as to how you are going to get your marriage back on track. All your good intentions are pointless if he is not right there beside you putting his weight and goodwill into saving your marriage. He has lied to you and caused a lot of hurt. It takes time to recover from such a betrayal. I do wish you the best of luck and I hope things work out for you.
strength-abounds Posted November 3, 2010 Posted November 3, 2010 Wow, I am sorry prairiemoon for your heartache. Infidelity is a huge barrier to cross for both the cheater and the betrayed. I wish I could tell you that everything will be ok but my opinion on cheaters and the relationships that they kill are a low opinion. Have you ever heard "a leopard never changes its spots"? I hate using such a cliche to address your problem, but unfortunately, it speaks the truth. The biggest hurdle you are going to have to overcome is the trust that has been broken because of his affair. Trust is something that can be rebuilt but it takes years to accomplish this. Ask yourself, can you or are you willing to spend YEARS not trusting this man? You may feel different about trust; but for me, trust MUST be present in any relationship or the relationship is doomed for the beginning. Couples do heal after infidelity; and more often than not, if the relationship can heal, the couple will be stronger after the affair. But it takes time. Do you have the time? Good luck and God Bless.
goingstrong Posted November 3, 2010 Posted November 3, 2010 Prarie, My ADD was really challenging me as I read your post 1. what are the chances that he was just feeling lonely and she paid attention to him and she could have been anyone? Very high, but what difference does it make? He is cheating either way 2. he tells me that it only escalated in the last three months. his phone records seem to indicate that as they didn't talk on the phone much at all before that time. do EA's really escalate that quickly? and do men really and truly not see it coming? The woman seeks the EA, the man does not..he wants the PA and the pursuit of it. He gives her the EA to get the PA in return....that is how the game is played. Men have buddies to confide in, they don't need women to talk, they need women for the physical stuff 3. he tells me that he didn't think about the consequences at all while he was interacting with her. does a man that truly loves you think that way? or does a man that is committed to you really think that way? Yes, that's because his little head was doing the thinking for him..you were after all, separated for many months and men are driven by what is between a women's legs..even at 47. BTW, Is this the first male you have ever dealt with? Sorry to give you man lesson number one, but it is the truth no matter how unpleasant or crude it sounds 4. how do i know he won't do it again? this has been gut wrenching for me, i was an absolute wreck when i found out, digging thru things, paying a locksmith to crack the home safe, ridiculous stuff i have never done before. i felt like my life had been hijacked and i was going to lose everything i had - him included. You don't , and most likely anything short of you being together all the time, he will continue. 5. how do i know if he's worth the risk of trying again? we have committed for now, to work on our relationship and see where it goes. we are so incredibly compatible in the day to day stuff, i like that and would be truly devastated if it was gone. but i just can't go thru this again. In a thousand words or less, that's the million dollar question that only you can answer. In short, you don't. 6. i sent her one email - i attached his phone records, and a copy of the email that he had saved from her. i said three sentences in the email: 1. do not contact me or any of my again for any reason. you have assistants you can work thru, please do so. 2. you have no idea the trauma that you have contributed to and how many peoples lives have been affected. 3. how dare you. was i wrong to send her an email? i did not threaten, nor am i interested in threatening, i wanted her to know that i know. this will have little or no effect on her. The ball is in his court, not hers. 7. how do you combat a midlife crisis in a man? when we first moved in together, he was making HUGE money, and i was average - now, all this time later, the roles are completely reversed. You don't, he does. You cannot change him, but only change the way you react to him. That, might, get him to change himself in the way that you want. I just want to know that all this heartache is going to be worth it. any input thoughts opinions would be welcomed with open arms. prairiemoon BTW, you will get more responses if you don't put so much down all at once. In today's youtube, 20 second attention span society, people want trailers to get them interested, not the whole movie at once.
seren Posted November 3, 2010 Posted November 3, 2010 (edited) Hi Prariemoon, sorry you are going through all this. I am 3 years on from D Day, we are reconciled and I have to say happy, in a better place than we were before the A - which is not something I ever thought I would say in the early days after my H told me about his 8 month (sporadic) A. Like you, I became the big earner, was very succesful professionally. It can work out, but it is just gut wrenching. My answers are based on my experience, so here goes so here's my questions that i'd value input on; 1. what are the chances that he was just feeling lonely and she paid attention to him and she could have been anyone? My H tells me this, I happen to believe him, but recognise that not all A's are this way. It wasn't so much loneliness as him not feeling good enough about himself. 2. he tells me that it only escalated in the last three months. his phone records seem to indicate that as they didn't talk on the phone much at all before that time. do EA's really escalate that quickly? and do men really and truly not see it coming? I think that there is always an amount of banter and things are said via text and emails that they would never say out loud. Don't know if they see it coming, you know your H 3. he tells me that he didn't think about the consequences at all while he was interacting with her. does a man that truly loves you think that way? or does a man that is committed to you really think that way? I know from my H that during the A he didn't think very highly of himself, but that, in his words, he had his head up his a***, always loved me, thought I didn't love him, hated himself. Was he committed? I think compartmentalising and conflict avoidance are a factor in my sitch 4. how do i know he won't do it again? this has been gut wrenching for me, i was an absolute wreck when i found out, digging thru things, paying a locksmith to crack the home safe, ridiculous stuff i have never done before. i felt like my life had been hijacked and i was going to lose everything i had - him included. You don't, no one ever does, even those of us who said it wouldn't happen to us. Well it does and it stinks and it hurts. There are those who say they a leopard cannot change it's spots, well leopards aren't people, and I reckon people can, BUT only if they are remorseful 5. how do i know if he's worth the risk of trying again? we have committed for now, to work on our relationship and see where it goes. we are so incredibly compatible in the day to day stuff, i like that and would be truly devastated if it was gone. but i just can't go thru this again. Ahh the kicker question, there is always a risk in any relationship, but I agree, once bitten and all that. I would never, ever stay if it were to happen again. I have established boundaries, a sort of mental line drawn in the sand and my H knows exactly what will happen if it ever happened again. I trust him not to. 6. i sent her one email - i attached his phone records, and a copy of the email that he had saved from her. i said three sentences in the email: 1. do not contact me or any of my again for any reason. you have assistants you can work thru, please do so. 2. you have no idea the trauma that you have contributed to and how many peoples lives have been affected. 3. how dare you. was i wrong to send her an email? i did not threaten, nor am i interested in threatening, i wanted her to know that i know. does it really matter what she thinks? If she didn't know that having an A with a married man who was deceiving his wife would hurt the BS, then she must be pretty stupid. 7. how do you combat a midlife crisis in a man? when we first moved in together, he was making HUGE money, and i was average - now, all this time later, the roles are completely reversed. Mine had an A after a very traumatic series of events in his life, he went totally out of character. The A sort of woke him up to what he had, what we had and what we were in danger of losing. I cannot fault my H since D Day, sure we have rows the same as anyone, but we make time for each other more, I have scaled down work some, we have our priorities right. I too have looked at how I contributed to our marriage taking a wrong turn and accept responsibility for my part. NOT the A, nothing ever justifies an A. I just want to know that all this heartache is going to be worth it. any input thoughts opinions would be welcomed with open arms. Hang in there Prariemoon, you need truth before you can move forward, a lot of straight talking, even if/when it hurts to know things. To know demystify's the A, I always assumed it would be moonlight and roses - but it turns out it was snatched sessions in a cheap hotel that OW paid for. Concentrate on moving forward, not on the OW, she is no longer in the picture. It can work, it just takes work, lots of it. Serenx prairiemoon Edited November 3, 2010 by seren clarity
Author prairiemoon Posted November 3, 2010 Author Posted November 3, 2010 point well taken on the youtube generation and keeping posts short! i just don't know what the outcome will be, that's the most difficult part. cheers, PM
goingstrong Posted November 4, 2010 Posted November 4, 2010 (edited) Seren, I think you posts is riddled with many women interpretations of what you feel the man's answers are. These for example he tells me that he didn't think about the consequences at all while he was interacting with her. does a man that truly loves you think that way? or does a man that is committed to you really think that way? I know from my H that during the A he didn't think very highly of himself, but that, in his words, he had his head up his a***, always loved me, thought I didn't love him, hated himself. Was he committed? I think compartmentalising and conflict avoidance are a factor in my sitch 1. what are the chances that he was just feeling lonely and she paid attention to him and she could have been anyone? My H tells me this, I happen to believe him, but recognise that not all A's are this way. It wasn't so much loneliness as him not feeling good enough about himself. are you hearing what you want to hear, or your husband trying to keep the peace. Nothing makes a man feel better than having sex with multiple women. He may have been lonely physically, but he was not feeling bad about himself or conversationally lonely. Now I'm not saying that it is this with you case or all of them, but 99% of men's affairs are about sex...if they want a conversation, they will get a dog or hang out with their friends. The male posters here are the touchy feely type of men that do not represent an accurate cross section of the typical male in a western society, therefore their posts are going to be biased on the sensitive side. Additionally, when I man gets caught in an affair with alot to lose, he will say anything for damage control...count on it. Edited November 4, 2010 by goingstrong
2sure Posted November 4, 2010 Posted November 4, 2010 Lived it. My advice: As of right now and the foreseeable future your H cannot be trusted. Call it a mid life crisis, call it the affair fog, call it selfish , lonely whatever. He cannot be trusted. So - dont let him or anyone else say or imply that you are paranoid , insecure , or shrewish. Because of the two of you...the only one acting right is YOU. Until things physically and tangibly change you should check and verify. After the changes take place you can begin to work, together, on the betrayal and the recovery. But you are not there yet.
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