The "Dumb Animal"/Sex Starved Theory

[Holding-On]

So.. my boyfriend has this theory about the reptilian brain and how it drives us. In particular he was discussing it in relation to food/activity level.

His theory, based on chats with his neuroscientist friend is that as physical beings we are programmed to survive by consuming calories and finding a way to conserve this energy (work no more than necessary). He calls this part of us the "dumb animal".

 

If you trigger this dumb animal into panic (diet too hard too fast say) you will find yourself up at midnight scarfing down ice cream by the gallon going "why am I doing this?"

and willpower has nothing to do with it, your body is trying to make sure you survive.

 

Like trying not to breath say - hard to do - your system will take over. The trick being to make your "dumb animal" system nervous (eat less fats and sugars than you would crave, work out more than you would) but not overdo it and induce "panic mode". Anyway, it worked for my boyfriend. He's lost 80 pounds.

 

I like this theory because it certainly explains why people who manage to create successful empires out of nothing still struggle to have the "willpower" to maintain a good weight. We are very down on people who don't weigh the correct amount. There is a lot of harsh criticism on the dating board to be sure.

 

So... I would like to open a discussion about sex as an innate driving force. To avoid sidetracking, we can assume for argument that infidelity is morally and legally wrong, the WS has control of their actions and the BS is a pure and innocent party.

 

However, I read here so much about how cheaters are stupid or very crass. The one thread that got me thinking about this is how a man came out on his porch and found his wife necking with his neighbor (whose wife was in bed across the way). This seemed reminiscent of "scarfing down ice cream at midnight" to me.

 

Some people rarely crave food beyond their needs even when there is tons available and some married people are not tempted even when they are famous and people are throwing their panties at them on a regular basis. However some people may have much stronger drives for food or sex.

Thoughts?

[Owl]

I think that there have been thousands of people who have starved themselves to death, deliberately, in protest of various things over the course of mankind.

 

I believe that there are also thousands (if not millions) of men and women who have voluntarily given up sex for various reasons throughout our history as a species.

 

I absolutely accept that we are in a constant struggle with the "animal vs. rational" parts of our personality/brains/etc...

 

However...I also believe that the vast majority of people out there have the ability to rule over their 'animal brain' with their rational, logical minds.

 

It's one of the primary key distinguising features that seperates us from animals.

 

The ability to overrule our animal nature, our own bodies with our thinking minds.

 

So...can that "animal nature" be a contributing factor to one's choice to cheat on their spouse? Surely. Is it the final deciding factor? Nope...because their "rational minds" can control that animal portion...if they choose to do so.

[freestyle]

Also, some cheaters could be getting great sex on tap at home---

 

..and they still cheat. It's not always because the spouse/partner is withholding.

[Holding-On]

Also, some cheaters could be getting great sex on tap at home---

 

..and they still cheat. It's not always because the spouse/partner is withholding.

 

Morbidly obese people are certainly not calorie starved but their reptilian brain might think so. I am not including the BS in this equation at all (hence my underlined disclaimer). Rather I am wondering if for some WS the basic drives seem to take over/have overwhelming influence and then they are left wondering "$#%@, why did I just do that??". Kissing on the porch or screwing someone's best friend in the laundry room hardly seems like a planned out event. In countries where punishments include stoning you'd expect noone would commit adultery.

 

I understand that some people are able to go without sex their whole lives or kill themselves deliberately through food deprivation but I am interested in the people who can't. If you google "hoarding" for example you will find that OCD people actually have underdeveloped parts of their brains. So even though it appears they are extremely lazy and ought to be able to part with what is, to the rest of us, clearly junk, there is some biological imperative to be overcome for them that doesn't have to be for the rest of us.

 

It seems to me that the better we understand what drives us, the more likely we are to successfully circumvent our biology to our advantage. Hence why I invite this discussion.

[sumdude]

Well it's proven by lab rats that they'll keep pushing the cocaine lever until they OD. The pleasure centers in the brain are very powerful. Like others posted it's about the control of the rational mind over the pleasure impulse. Being able to see cause and effect, project an outcome and choose whether or not to engage in a certain behavior. Plus if you're constantly flooding those receptors with happy neurotransmitters it takes more and more of the stimulus to get the same response. Which is of course the nature of addiction.

 

Some people seem to be more prone to it than others. Whether it's nature or learned is a question yet to be fully answered though often it may be both.

 

As far as cheating.. there are so many reasons someone might do it. Could be just for the good sex feelings. Could be to get external validation. Could be to find a better financial situation. Way too complicated to be just the lizard brain.

[wheelwright]

Love however is not part of the reptilian brain.

 

Some As are about love.

 

Some Ms do not nurture love - which may lead to an A. Pretty much in the irrational way you describe, but not for the sex.

 

So many EAs you see.

 

Hence you have higher order emotions played out against higher order cultural moral considerations. The latter are bound by principles and feelings - the former too.

 

IME, this isn't pretty for the identity and integrity of the WS.

 

So if love is your forbidden ice-cream, where will that leave you? Losing weight here is a self-destruct.

 

And you can't make ice-cream out of the wrong ingredients. In fact the diet varieties make me want to - well -they are not appealing. Just sometimes we think we ought to eat them. Despite the saccharin.

[bentnotbroken]

Morbidly obese people are certainly not calorie starved but their reptilian brain might think so. I am not including the BS in this equation at all (hence my underlined disclaimer). Rather I am wondering if for some WS the basic drives seem to take over/have overwhelming influence and then they are left wondering "$#%@, why did I just do that??". Kissing on the porch or screwing someone's best friend in the laundry room hardly seems like a planned out event. In countries where punishments include stoning you'd expect noone would commit adultery.

 

I understand that some people are able to go without sex their whole lives or kill themselves deliberately through food deprivation but I am interested in the people who can't. If you google "hoarding" for example you will find that OCD people actually have underdeveloped parts of their brains. So even though it appears they are extremely lazy and ought to be able to part with what is, to the rest of us, clearly junk, there is some biological imperative to be overcome for them that doesn't have to be for the rest of us.

 

It seems to me that the better we understand what drives us, the more likely we are to successfully circumvent our biology to our advantage. Hence why I invite this discussion.

 

 

This one statement holds true for more most things we consider outside the "norm". It is a theory and the results are suspect.

[Fieldsofgold]

Morbidly obese people are certainly not calorie starved but their reptilian brain might think so. I am not including the BS in this equation at all (hence my underlined disclaimer). Rather I am wondering if for some WS the basic drives seem to take over/have overwhelming influence and then they are left wondering "$#%@, why did I just do that??". Kissing on the porch or screwing someone's best friend in the laundry room hardly seems like a planned out event. In countries where punishments include stoning you'd expect noone would commit adultery.

 

I understand that some people are able to go without sex their whole lives or kill themselves deliberately through food deprivation but I am interested in the people who can't. If you google "hoarding" for example you will find that OCD people actually have underdeveloped parts of their brains. So even though it appears they are extremely lazy and ought to be able to part with what is, to the rest of us, clearly junk, there is some biological imperative to be overcome for them that doesn't have to be for the rest of us.

 

It seems to me that the better we understand what drives us, the more likely we are to successfully circumvent our biology to our advantage. Hence why I invite this discussion.

 

The bolded - No, hoarders do NOT have under-developed parts of their brains. Their brain development is just fine. They do, however, have parts of their brains that are under-active, or less responsive thatn average. Whether this is "cause" or "effect" has yet to be determined. And there is clear evidence that their brains can be re-trained to respond at a more effective level, through cognitive behavioral therapy. (medication is not effective for hoarders who do not have OCD, and many hoarders do not have OCD)

 

This may sound like a thread jump, but if we're going to discuss brain functions, I think this is significant.

[Fieldsofgold]

Sorry, posted twice

[wheelwright]

The bolded - No, hoarders do NOT have under-developed parts of their brains. Their brain development is just fine. They do, however, have parts of their brains that are under-active, or less responsive thatn average. Whether this is "cause" or "effect" has yet to be determined. And there is clear evidence that their brains can be re-trained to respond at a more effective level, through cognitive behavioral therapy. (medication is not effective for hoarders who do not have OCD, and many hoarders do not have OCD)

 

This may sound like a thread jump, but if we're going to discuss brain functions, I think this is significant.

 

But we all have parts of our brains that are less active than others, don't we?

 

We could try and fail to measure it all.

 

Anyway, I thought this comment important.

 

More important is whether cheaters are in some way deficient or just different.

 

Like we have dyslexia or something?

[Fieldsofgold]

But we all have parts of our brains that are less active than others, don't we?

 

We could try and fail to measure it all.

 

Anyway, I thought this comment important.

 

More important is whether cheaters are in some way deficient or just different.

 

Like we have dyslexia or something?

 

I really don't know if everyone has parts of their brains that are less active. I have no idea if that's a true statement or not. I know with hoarders, there are actually two sections of the brain that are out of sync, and one of those sections is underactive as a result. And it can be re-programmed.

 

Whether this applies to infidelity, again, who knows. I think there are just so many variables that influence a person's behavior. There could be

dozens of factors in one individual that could contribute to their cheating.

 

Even the original theory about the weight loss is questionable. I have read info about why we over-eat after a severely restricted diet. I can't remember the details, but as I recall it was something about brain chemistry balance. (Of course, I didn't lose 80 lbs., either!)

 

I just think the factors that contribute to cheating can be so complex and varied. Or maybe just simply that someone saw something they wanted. I just don't know.

 

FoG

[You Go Girl]

Love however is not part of the reptilian brain.

 

Some As are about love.

 

Some Ms do not nurture love - which may lead to an A. Pretty much in the irrational way you describe, but not for the sex.

 

So many EAs you see.

 

Hence you have higher order emotions played out against higher order cultural moral considerations. The latter are bound by principles and feelings - the former too.

 

IME, this isn't pretty for the identity and integrity of the WS.

 

So if love is your forbidden ice-cream, where will that leave you? Losing weight here is a self-destruct.

 

And you can't make ice-cream out of the wrong ingredients. In fact the diet varieties make me want to - well -they are not appealing. Just sometimes we think we ought to eat them. Despite the saccharin.

 

The only way to test your belief that some A's are about love is to withhold the sex, and see if the love is still there months later (with no hope for the sex being rekindled).

Any AP up for the challenge?

It seems that marriages do survive much longer without sex than affairs because of the losses that can occur, the assets involved, whether they be extended family, children, or financial, or even simply time invested.

The affair seems to have little to lose comparatively outside of the sex, so if sex is withheld, it ends quickly.

Sure there can be an A that is about love. But I wonder what small percentage is not first and foremost about sex, or some other motivation, ie, femme fatale.

Edited November 5, 2010 by You Go Girl

[wheelwright]

The only way to test your belief that some A's are about love is to withhold the sex, and see if the love is still there months later (with no hope for the sex being rekindled).

Any AP up for the challenge?

It seems that marriages do survive much longer without sex than affairs because of the losses that can occur, the assets involved, whether they be extended family, children, or financial, or even simply time invested.

The affair seems to have little to lose comparatively outside of the sex, so if sex is withheld, it ends quickly.

Sure there can be an A that is about love. But I wonder what small percentage is not first and foremost about sex, or some other motivation, ie, femme fatale.

 

I had feelings for my AP long before I began to consider sex with him.

 

For me, and this may be right or wrong, sex has helped to show me the extent of communion and trust and love with another. With most sex partners I have tried with, the sex has been severely limited in enjoyment - because I didn't feel that fit, that rightness with the sex partner.

 

I have only had good sex with my H and my recent xMOM.

 

I saw it as a reflection of the quality of the fit. I married my H on the strength of it.

 

But I had sex with my H before I felt any love. And with xMOM it was the other way round.

 

I think people get so up in arms about xtra M sex, because they know it is a special bonding. And feel a whole lot better if they know it was a meaningless ONS.

 

I wonder sometimes if I should have tried to make my R with xMOM non-sexual. I felt I had to connect with him in that way if I could. The desire I felt was way beyond anything I had previously experienced (I was 39).

 

His BS said to me when she confronted me in the street, 'Why my H? You could have had anyone. Someone else.'

 

But it was about him and me, not sex. She didn't get that.

[Holding-On]

I am not speaking about all or even most affairs. I believe in the spiritual component of sex, it is part of why I have an open marriage in fact.

 

I am interested in those cases where people act just so stupidly/blindly. In cases where they seem to act almost without their rational thinking minds. To what extent do you think the reptilian brain can influence these cases?

[NoIDidn't]

I am not speaking about all or even most affairs. I believe in the spiritual component of sex, it is part of why I have an open marriage in fact.

 

I am interested in those cases where people act just so stupidly/blindly. In cases where they seem to act almost without their rational thinking minds. To what extent do you think the reptilian brain can influence these cases?

 

Its entirely possible that the reptilian brain influences these cases. Research is showing that a "new" woman can boost a man's testosterone levels. Also, many in affairs view their primary relationships negatively and fearfully - that could trigger the reptilian brain survival response.

 

Its easy to say that cheaters are just selfish, but that would be the "rational" more evolved part of our emotions speaking. If its "rational", its not reptilian.