Am I average, attractive or unattractive?

[northern_sky]

This is such a bad idea. Posting pictures I mean. I do not have BDD but I would never be able to do it and to take the comments and I know they would affect me deeply.

 

I am just worried that Shadow is going to internalize each negative post and close herself up from the world. I am worried that her confidence will plummet even further. I am worried that she will now conclude that all her problems with men stem from average looks. I am just...worried

 

I want to qualify by stressing that I'm not fishing for compliments. This is how I really feel.

 

I don't know what will happen, but I think I needed this. I kept trying to convince myself I was attractive (as did others who know me), but it didn't fit with how guys usually relate to me. It is better to accept that I am below average, because it destroys that constant tension in my mind. I just hope I haven't deluded myself about my other good qualities (being smart, perceptive). I kind of have this sense that if I put myself out there, as I did in this thread, would rip me to shreds and leave me with nothing. But I don't mean that in an accusatory way. I wouldn't feel like they were unjustified in doing so, since I would have been a willing participant. Luckily I won't ever go that far. This really makes me wonder if my self esteem wasn't low ENOUGH in all regards. I think having an ambivalent self worth can be more crippling than a consistently low one. I wonder if I'm average or below in all regards, not just looks, and I was fooling myself to think I was intelligent.

 

I've been in a hazy dream recently. I felt pain when I read one or two of the comments on this thread, but it was a dull, distant blow where in the past it would have gutted me. Same when I found out last night my ex was

telling his new girlfriend he loved her. I could be kicked out on the street or told I have some interminable illness and my reaction would just be "eh."

 

I remember there was this girl who used to post on a lot of plastic surgery forums. This is when I was looking for a surgeon for my nose. She would ask people what they thought of her pics, and was really sweet and accepting whenever somebody ripped her face apart. I remember thinking, how does she do it? I could never torture myself like that. Now I have become that girl.

 

I think my spirit has died. I wonder if it's even possible to rekindle. I think the comment that hurt me most was that I look 8 years older than I am. I guess because I DIDN'T ask for comments on my age (well not until after that one was made). But it's like I don't feel bad enough inside; my physical appearance is also totally spent up, and that's not soemthing in my control.

Edited November 2, 2010 by northern_sky

[tigressA]

I think you're naturally quite pretty, and you'd be a knockout if you put in a bit more effort with hair, makeup, like some other posters said. But the vibe you give off in those pictures is really off-putting.

[northern_sky]

^thanks Tigress, and I also wanted to thank people for the other positive feedback.

 

To those who pointed out that I wasn't responding to those, it's because I don't want it to appear like I'm fishing for compliments which I'm not. If I were fishing for validations I would have posted my best pictures rather than ones that I felt were "fair." I also wouldn't have gotten objective responses, so it would have defeated the purpose.

 

I really feel like my spirit has died recently, and I don't know why. I was in a lot more pain in the past, yet I also felt more alive.

[Taramere]

II remember there was this girl who used to post on a lot of plastic surgery forums. This is when I was looking for a surgeon for my nose. She would ask people what they thought of her pics, and was really sweet and accepting whenever somebody ripped her face apart. I remember thinking, how does she do it? I could never torture myself like that. Now I have become that girl.

 

I don't know what's gotten into me.

 

One thing I don't understand. You've said before that you have body dysmorphia. Is this something about yourself that you would like to get some control of so that it doesn't rip your life apart? If it is, then surely one of the first and most obvious ways of trying to get such a condition under control would be to not start threads like this on the Internet.

 

I can appreciate that this must be a condition that causes a great deal of stress and probably makes it difficult to control certain aspects of your behaviour (social anxiety etc)....but I would have thought it isn't too much of a reach to not post threads like this, which you must know yourself will exacerbate the condition? Or do you feel that posting a thread like this, inviting other people's judgements about your appearance, would be helpful to you in getting a grip of the problem? It seems to me that it would achieve the very opposite.

[Tom Crick]

Good bone structure, nice eyes, gorgeous mouth.

 

But you need to smile and be more confident! And, like a lot of women (speaking for myself here, too!), the right hair cut and make-up works a treat, too. I feel more attractive - and get more of a positive response from others - when I feel good about myself.

[northern_sky]

One thing I don't understand. You've said before that you have body dysmorphia. Is this something about yourself that you would like to get some control of so that it doesn't rip your life apart? If it is, then surely one of the first and most obvious ways of trying to get such a condition under control would be to not start threads like this on the Internet.

 

I can appreciate that this must be a condition that causes a great deal of stress and probably makes it difficult to control certain aspects of your behaviour (social anxiety etc)....but I would have thought it isn't too much of a reach to not post threads like this, which you must know yourself will exacerbate the condition? Or do you feel that posting a thread like this, inviting other people's judgements about your appearance, would be helpful to you in getting a grip of the problem? It seems to me that it would achieve the very opposite.

 

I don't know what would help me anymore. I've tried to not think about the problem, and it sort of lessens the pain and anxiety but it never really goes away. I am in therapy, but my therapist diverts the subject whenever I bring up BDD, which always leads me to believe she thinks I'm unattractive so she finds the whole subject of my disorder uncomfortable.

 

I've never done anything like this before -- expose my face to public dissection. I posted a thread a couple of years ago with a shot of my clothed body (face cropped out) asking if I was too thin, but that was the closest I came.

 

I guess I did/do think this might help me, because it's like facing my biggest fear. Is that twisted logic?

[denise_xo]

I want to qualify by stressing that I'm not fishing for compliments. This is how I really feel.

 

I don't know what will happen, but I think I needed this. I kept trying to convince myself I was attractive (as did others who know me), but it didn't fit with how guys usually relate to me. It is better to accept that I am below average, because it destroys that constant tension in my mind. I just hope I haven't deluded myself about my other good qualities (being smart, perceptive). I kind of have this sense that if I put myself out there, as I did in this thread, would rip me to shreds and leave me with nothing. But I don't mean that in an accusatory way. I wouldn't feel like they were unjustified in doing so, since I would have been a willing participant. Luckily I won't ever go that far. This really makes me wonder if my self esteem wasn't low ENOUGH in all regards. I think having an ambivalent self worth can be more crippling than a consistently low one. I wonder if I'm average or below in all regards, not just looks, and I was fooling myself to think I was intelligent.

 

I've been in a hazy dream recently. I felt pain when I read one or two of the comments on this thread, but it was a dull, distant blow where in the past it would have gutted me. Same when I found out last night my ex was

telling his new girlfriend he loved her. I could be kicked out on the street or told I have some interminable illness and my reaction would just be "eh."

 

I remember there was this girl who used to post on a lot of plastic surgery forums. This is when I was looking for a surgeon for my nose. She would ask people what they thought of her pics, and was really sweet and accepting whenever somebody ripped her face apart. I remember thinking, how does she do it? I could never torture myself like that. Now I have become that girl.

 

I think my spirit has died. I wonder if it's even possible to rekindle. I think the comment that hurt me most was that I look 8 years older than I am. I guess because I DIDN'T ask for comments on my age (well not until after that one was made). But it's like I don't feel bad enough inside; my physical appearance is also totally spent up, and that's not soemthing in my control.

 

Why don't you try to take this to its logical conclusion - the 'so what'. Going with your online girl who is having her face ripped apart-example, imagine that all the responses in this thread had been negative. Then what? What is achieved by that? What would you be planning to do with that information?

 

I don't know what has made you become that girl, but I encourage you to take a hard look at what you allow to dominate your self-perception. As several have pointed out, you have overlooked most of the positive comments. You rationalized that by saying you wanted to know how to fix your 'below average' features. Well, that's a choice you're making - to focus on the negatives rather than enhancing and displaying and identifying with the positives. We all have to work with what we've got. You have than quite a lot more than many other people. You have received lots of positive reinforcement on this thread which would give you an idea of where to start.

 

I have no savings whatsoever but I'm ready to bet a fair bit of money that the reason you're not being approached by men has very little to do with a physical feature of your face. It's the bit in bold you need to address. People have told me I look above my age, too - big ****ing deal

 

Take care of yourself

[denise_xo]

I don't know what would help me anymore. I've tried to not think about the problem, and it sort of lessens the pain and anxiety but it never really goes away. I am in therapy, but my therapist diverts the subject whenever I bring up BDD, which always leads me to believe she thinks I'm unattractive so she finds the whole subject of my disorder uncomfortable.

 

 

She might be working on some (false) idea that it's good to bring your attention over to other topics. If you'd like to discuss it with her, tell her so - you should set the agenda in terms of what is useful for you. Maybe you should bring her a print out of this thread? And that last sentence is clearly a misconception on your part.

[Smoky Day]

Shadow/sky, you are an objectively pretty girl with some mental/emotional issues, including Body Dysmorphic Disorder. Take down your pics, stop trying to dissect every negative opinion (nobody is everybody's type), and if your therapist is not addressing your issues with BDD, for god's sake find a new therapist.

[Beerme]

As a sometime lurker here, and an even rarer poster, I'll put my two cents in.

 

I actually think the OP is quite pretty. From the looks of it, she's got minimal makeup on, and still looks nice. (imagine if everyone didn't wear makeup. I'd bet it would be quite revealing.) Facially, she's the type of woman that if I got to know, and I really liked her personality, I'd end up thinking she was really good looking. Conversely, if I got to know her, and didn't like her personality, I'd probably end up thinking she's below average. That's just the way my mind normally works though. The personality of a person makes a big difference on how attractive I ultimately find them.

[Taramere]

I don't know what would help me anymore. I've tried to not think about the problem, and it sort of lessens the pain and anxiety but it never really goes away. I am in therapy, but my therapist diverts the subject whenever I bring up BDD, which always leads me to believe she thinks I'm unattractive so she finds the whole subject of my disorder uncomfortable.

 

I've never done anything like this before -- expose my face to public dissection. I posted a thread a couple of years ago with a shot of my clothed body (face cropped out) asking if I was too thin, but that was the closest I came.

 

I think it would be an idea to discuss with your therapist that you did this (ie posting your pictures on the Internet for a critique). There's a rationale for everything we do, even when that rationale isn't clear to us....and talking with your therapist might help you to understand what need you were looking to fulfil when you posted your pics here. Once you know what that need is, you're better placed to find less harmful ways of fulfilling it.

 

My sense, from some of what you're saying, is that you feel it would be an accomplishment to hear someone assessing your appearance very critically without getting upset or reacting angrily. It's not an accomplishment, and it isn't healthy. You're not some piece of livestock at auction, standing on a platform while prospective buyers cast a critical eye over you. You don't need to put yourself through this, and I wish you wouldn't. Will you discuss the thread with your therapist?

[Tom Crick]

Shadow/sky, you are an objectively pretty girl with some mental/emotional issues, including Body Dysmorphic Disorder. Take down your pics, stop trying to dissect every negative opinion (nobody is everybody's type), and if your therapist is not addressing your issues with BDD, for god's sake find a new therapist.

 

 

Print that post up and carry it everywhere with you

[Taramere]

Shadow/sky, you are an objectively pretty girl with some mental/emotional issues, including Body Dysmorphic Disorder. Take down your pics, stop trying to dissect every negative opinion (nobody is everybody's type), and if your therapist is not addressing your issues with BDD, for god's sake find a new therapist.

 

yes, I tried to edit my last post in view of the therapist problem. It doesn't sound as though it's an area she has expertise in or knowledge of, and she should therefore be referring S onto someone who does. If I were S I would be raising that directly with her, and asking her to recommend someone with expertise in this area.

[northern_sky]

I think it would be an idea to discuss with your therapist that you did this (ie posting your pictures on the Internet for a critique). There's a rationale for everything we do, even when that rationale isn't clear to us....and talking with your therapist might help you to understand what need you were looking to fulfil when you posted your pics here. Once you know what that need is, you're better placed to find less harmful ways of fulfilling it.

 

My sense, from some of what you're saying, is that you feel it would be an accomplishment to hear someone assessing your appearance very critically without getting upset or reacting angrily. It's not an accomplishment, and it isn't healthy. You're not some piece of livestock at auction, standing on a platform while prospective buyers cast a critical eye over you. You don't need to put yourself through this, and I wish you wouldn't. Will you discuss the thread with your therapist?

 

Yes, I will discuss it with her. Though unfortunately I won't be seeing her for another two weeks. I've been thinking for awhile about changing therapists.

[slownumbers81]

Hey girl. I agree with some of the above posters, please promise us that you will get some help with your therapist or counselor regarding BDD (never heard of that disorer before, just looked it up). You are a beautiful person inside and out so just remember that. Honestly as cheesy as it sounds I think we are all beautiful in our own way.. no need to find fault in ourselves when we could be focusing on all of the good things.

 

P.S. and yes if your therapist is not helping with this issue, sounds like it may be a good idea to look around for another. Maybe they have therapists that specialize in this?

Edited November 2, 2010 by slownumbers81

[Stockalone]

I guess I did/do think this might help me, because it's like facing my biggest fear. Is that twisted logic?

 

I believe it's not necessarily twisted logic.

 

I started virtually the same thread some time ago, so I understand why doing this can be at least an interesting experience, maybe even helpful.

 

In terms of facing your fear, I guess it's like pushing somebody who is afraid of water, into a pool or a lake. BUT, if that person panics instead of being fine, someone can always jump in to keep said person from drowning.

 

To be honest, I believe this sort of thread can be dangerous for you. In your case, who is there to help you, should you get overwhelmed (and might be in danger of drowning) by the responses?

 

I think that talking about this with your therapist is very important. Should your BDD get the best of you, she can step in and help you be more rational about the responses. I am not saying you can't do it on your own, IMO it's just safer with someone there to help you if needed.

 

That also means that you need a therapist who takes you seriously and not disregards your BDD. At least on LS, you often focus on the negative things people have to say, so for a non-professional like myself, ignoring your BDD seems to be a mistake. At the very least, you should get an explanation why your therapist is so dismissive.

 

 

Am I average, attractive or unattractive?

 

I'm curious as I feel like I have no clue anymore. Please be honest, but don't assign me a number. Just in broad terms.

 

You are attractive. That said, nobody is universally attractive, so you'll always be a bit more, or in some cases a bit less desirable, depending on which type and/or features someone prefers.

 

I also believe you don't need plastic surgery. Please don't use this thread to look for things to put on a "what needs to be fixed" list.

 

Did you not smile on purpose in those pics? If you generally don't smile much, you should at least try to smile at men you'd like to be approached by.

 

I know you said you wouldn't use those pics for online dating, but it really helps if a guy doesn't get the impression that you are just being friendly but can't wait for him to eventually get lost because he bores you out of your skull. Maybe you appear to not be interested in real life sometimes. If you come across as "indifferent/bored/not interested" based on your facial expression, that might keep some guys away.

 

Make-up, hairstyle, etc. are all things you can experiment with if you like. There is no harm in that, as long as you don't get a short hair cut.

 

I am only kidding of course, because I simply don't like short hair. The important thing is that YOU like how it makes you feel and also like the way a certain style makes you look.

[LisaLee]

 

Did you not smile on purpose in those pics? If you generally don't smile much, you should at least try to smile at men you'd like to be approached by.

 

 

I was wondering that as well. Were you nervous in the pics knowing you were planning on posting them here? Because you look uncomfortable, especially in the 3rd one. 4th one is very nice.

 

Personally, I think you can pull off the little to no makeup look. Seriously, the only thing unattractive about your pics is that you look so unhappy.

[tincanman99]

You are a pretty woman. Dont let these people that are over analyzing your bone structure and eyes put you down. Its not true. I cant comment on your body but based on what I see you are very cute. You should not have a problem meeting men. I could see you with an athletic outdoorsy kind of guy, an artist or a musician.

 

I am a guy and will tell you something - women are much more critical of themselves and other women than men ever will be. 99% of guys do not analyze women with the same degree of precision that women will. Trust me when I say this.

 

Guys are basic and if I was hooking you up and someone asked me if you were cute the answer would be yes.

 

What you need in your pictures is a spark of life, excitement in your eyes, smiling.

 

Self esteem is tough to correct and I have been dealing with it my entire life.

[northern_sky]

I believe it's not necessarily twisted logic.

 

I started virtually the same thread some time ago, so I understand why doing this can be at least an interesting experience, maybe even helpful.

 

In terms of facing your fear, I guess it's like pushing somebody who is afraid of water, into a pool or a lake. BUT, if that person panics instead of being fine, someone can always jump in to keep said person from drowning.

 

To be honest, I believe this sort of thread can be dangerous for you. In your case, who is there to help you, should you get overwhelmed (and might be in danger of drowning) by the responses?

 

I think that talking about this with your therapist is very important. Should your BDD get the best of you, she can step in and help you be more rational about the responses. I am not saying you can't do it on your own, IMO it's just safer with someone there to help you if needed.

 

That also means that you need a therapist who takes you seriously and not disregards your BDD. At least on LS, you often focus on the negative things people have to say, so for a non-professional like myself, ignoring your BDD seems to be a mistake. At the very least, you should get an explanation why your therapist is so dismissive.

 

 

 

 

You are attractive. That said, nobody is universally attractive, so you'll always be a bit more, or in some cases a bit less desirable, depending on which type and/or features someone prefers.

 

I also believe you don't need plastic surgery. Please don't use this thread to look for things to put on a "what needs to be fixed" list.

 

Did you not smile on purpose in those pics? If you generally don't smile much, you should at least try to smile at men you'd like to be approached by.

 

I know you said you wouldn't use those pics for online dating, but it really helps if a guy doesn't get the impression that you are just being friendly but can't wait for him to eventually get lost because he bores you out of your skull. Maybe you appear to not be interested in real life sometimes. If you come across as "indifferent/bored/not interested" based on your facial expression, that might keep some guys away.

 

Make-up, hairstyle, etc. are all things you can experiment with if you like. There is no harm in that, as long as you don't get a short hair cut.

 

I am only kidding of course, because I simply don't like short hair. The important thing is that YOU like how it makes you feel and also like the way a certain style makes you look.

 

Re: smiling. I do smile a lot more in real life, but less than most people. This is because I hate my teeth. Also my smile is really awkward in terms of looking forced or weird (I've been told this by many people). My ex told me there are rare moments where my smile looks totally genuinely and really lights up my face. But for the most part, I think my smile is uncomfortable. I took a picture of myself smiling, but it just looked loopy. So not smiling seems like the lesser of two evils. Right now I'm saving up to get my teeth fixed.

 

I'm going to print this thread out and bring it to my therapist in two weeks.

Edited November 2, 2010 by northern_sky

[Star Gazer]

What you need in your pictures is a spark of life, excitement in your eyes, smiling.

 

This is all you're really missing, Shadow/Sky. You don't have to show teeth to have a smile behind your eyes...ya know? A life in them. Happiness in them. The joie de vivre in them.

 

And that comes from the INSIDE.

[Dante311]

Apparently I'm above average in the looks, height, body, department... so should be/could be shallow... and selective in the women I date. In my opinion, you're a solid 7-7.5 depending on how lazy you're feeling about doing your hair/makeup...

 

I'd be cutesy over you, babe.

[mmk1]

You are very cute. What would make you even more attractice to a good- looking guy is some self-confidence, which starts by accepting and loving yourself. Good luck!

[Iced Mocha]

You really remind me of Sadie Frost in the first picture! I'd say you're above average you have really good bone structure. My fave picture is pic 4, the lipstick color really suits you.

[Stockalone]

This is all you're really missing, Shadow/Sky. You don't have to show teeth to have a smile behind your eyes...ya know? A life in them. Happiness in them. The joie de vivre in them.

 

And that comes from the INSIDE.

 

I don't really disagree. However, if you try to look serious, the sparkle in your eyes most likely won't be there either.

 

That's basically why I asked about her maybe not smiling on purpose, because that could have that effect.

 

 

Re: smiling. I do smile a lot more in real life, but less than most people. This is because I hate my teeth. Also my smile is really awkward in terms of looking forced or weird (I've been told this by many people). My ex told me there are rare moments where my smile looks totally genuinely and really lights up my face. But for the most part, I think my smile is uncomfortable. I took a picture of myself smiling, but it just looked loopy. So not smiling seems like the lesser of two evils. Right now I'm saving up to get my teeth fixed.

 

I'm going to print this thread out and bring it to my therapist in two weeks.

 

If you don't like to smile (because of your teeth), you'll probably be far more aware of it when you actually do smile. That is what probably makes it look forced and/or weird.

 

Assuming your teeth aren't black as coal or completely missing, there is probably no good reason to hide them. Much less hate them.

 

I know, easy for me to say. Still, I think you are being far too hard on yourself. In case you do have that slight gap between your upper front teeth, that isn't really a problem. I know/knew a woman who has this, and she is one of the most beautiful women I have ever met.

[northern_sky]

I asked my best friend to look at the photos and he said that three of them are awful. He said one of them even makes me look like I have a lazy eye. Maybe I did pick really bad photos of myself.

 

"XXX, these are not flattering pictures. I think those three distort your face -- I know what it looks like, I know what these pictures correspond to, so I can see what's an illusion, but if I didn't know that I might actually think there was something wrong with your face. It makes you look like you have jaundice."

 

The thing is I don't think I look better in real life, but he insists I look way better. Shrug. I don't even know anymore. I'm going to stop trying to figure it out.

Edited November 2, 2010 by northern_sky