Getting sex versus getting sexual needs met

[dreamingoftigers]

Why would you think this is exclusive to women?

 

 

 

Again, the same. Why do you think this only applies to women?

 

 

Humans of either gender can experience a wide range of orgasms, from meh to mind-blowing. Maybe for women the range is larger, but the basic principle holds for everyone.

 

I have found in general for men they think that if I have an orgasm, they have met my needs. In fact, with my h there is often a rush to give me an O when the longer the stimulation, the better the O.

 

Whether or not this happens with men, I know it happens with me.

[dreamingoftigers]

Nice previous post dreamingoftigers, but for the above I am shaking my head. If you think like this you are in the minority as far as I am concerned. 9 times out of 10 a (my unaudited statistic) woman will f**k a guy above their league when they are up for it and given the chance. You did not mention the self esteem boost that will enhance the sexual experience that comes from sleeping with someone more attractive, more desirable, or with higher social proof. I am talking casual or sex short term fling here. IMO far more women would prefer to be another notch on the bed post of Mr hunky guy and have their name forgotten by tomorrow than make Mr Nervous Inexperienced Nerdy guy's year and be reminisced about for years to come. Seriously I think many woman today would be kind of creeped out as regards being the object of desire for the 2nd outcome.

 

The context for this would be "I am super-attractive enough to be taken to bed by the movie star type guy." It is all about being desirable enough as a singular girl to the man, no they do not wish to be forgotten.

 

It's almost like saying to yourself "look who I got, I must be hot."

 

There are plenty of girls that know they are hotter then the nerdy guy and have already conquered that territory right out the gate. It is kind of like doing a drug, over time the thrill diminishes. If a girl knows that she could be the fling of the guy's life and she is self-confident to know that and there is nothing else about the guy that particularly entices her, than no, she ain't going to nail him.

[Eeyore79]

Casual sex usually consists of the man sticking his penis into the woman, and little else. This clearly satisfies him (he orgasms) but doesn't satisfy me (I don't orgasm). I need him to make a bit more effort to make me orgasm (oral, sex toys, etc) but a casual partner is unlikely to make the effort.

 

In addition to this, a casual partner is less likely to want to play any kinky sex games; it will probably be just boring straight sex with no bondage, spanking, or anything fun.

 

Therefore I find casual sex unfulfilling; there's basically nothing in it for me, so I don't do it.

[Chocolat]

Is this essentially saying that, while you have no problem finding a guy who will f*ck you till the cows come home, it's not easy finding a guy who gives a good god d*mn about *your* cows coming home, so to speak. Is that it? You're getting intercourse/cunnilingus, etc, but your sexual *needs* aren't being met? Do I have that right? And this with a man whom you find attractive, you've specifically selected and with whom you've agreed to have sex?

 

I'm not looking for an attack angle here. I had enough of that cr@p in my M. I'm looking to understand better. Maybe I have this casual sex thing all wrong. Do you have insight?

 

Well, I don't have casual sex, so maybe my response won't count, but what it comes down to is that my sexual needs can't be met unless I have also connected mentally and emotionally. Sure, I can give myself an orgasm but it is sort of hollow. And I guess a stranger or FB could also give me an orgasm (assuming I could relax enough to get to that point), but why? I suspect it would be worse than hollow. Not because casual sex necessarily means the guy wouldn't consider my pleasure important, but because the bottom line is that my sexual needs are inextricably connected to my mental and emotional needs -- sex is a way to express what I am feeling. This doesn't mean I can't enjoy a good romp, but that this happens within the context of a larger connection.

 

So I would agree that it is easy for me to obtain sex -- I think this is true for all women. But it's not always easy to have my needs met, since my sexual needs are bound up with other things.

Edited November 2, 2010 by Chocolat

[utterer of lies]

I have found in general for men they think that if I have an orgasm, they have met my needs. In fact, with my h there is often a rush to give me an O when the longer the stimulation, the better the O.

 

Whether or not this happens with men, I know it happens with me.

 

Haha. Did you wait until marriage with sex? Or why is your H so inexperienced?

 

And even more important: Why did you not talk to your H about this, and educate him?

[sumdude]

 

 

Yeah, we can all get laid..... so what? The female sex-drive is narcissistic. If you think about it, women go for the guys that would be the most thrilled to have them in bed or at least they act like it. THIS IS THE KEY TO THE KINGDOM.

 

 

Great thread and good insight in this post. Here's a question which is the other side of the coin.

 

What about those men who you know would do you in the drop of a hat... but you're not interested? When there's no challenge?

[dreamingoftigers]

How do I do that, tell her?

 

1-4 all apply to me with the girl that I'm completely infatuated with. But I don't know how to express them without creeping her out.

 

1. You aren't dating right?

 

We are kind of friends and we get along great. But I don't know how she feels about me. She keeps flip-flopping between warm and cold.

 

2. The hot and cold ones unfortunately would need the friendship risked a little in order to get an answer. You would need to decide if you would be happy just having a friendship, if not then you need to risk the rejection to get with her.

 

Me personally, I would mention that you have found her to be a really interesting (or pick one: smart, kind, nice, fun to be around, punctual (kidding about that last one)) for awhile now and that you also think she is really beautiful and would like to ask her out. Let her no there is no pressure either but you think it would be fun.

 

Something else comes to mind.

 

Does a woman who's a virgin, have sexual needs?

 

Of course, but there is some sensitivity required here. You would need to show that you aren't just a predator (that's how I felt about most guys when I was younger, like they were just interested in the one thing and would say anything to get at it). Hence the whole: "I really want to nail you and it would make my year, but I don't want to have you think that is all I want to be around you for." If she is interested she will probably leave herself wide open for you to make the first move.

 

She's 21 and I strongly suspect that she's never had a boyfriend and I wouldn't be suprised if shes a virgin.

 

How would a man get her to be sexual?

 

See above... oops

[carhill]

Have you ever looked into polyamory? What do you think of that crowd?

 

Not in any significant real life way. I'd say my feelings are neutral. I have read SxyNYCcpl's posts with interest in the past, because he proffered a largely emotionally neutral perspective on the swinging lifestyle.

 

More generally, IMO it is a mistake to assume that love/emotions/connections have to equal or be transformed into an LTR, and that this should always be the default option of choice. As human beings I think we are too prone to become possessive about feelings of love. Sometimes acknowledging love for each other, sharing a night together, and then moving on, is the best or only option.

 

Thanks. I think I'll study this more. It's a markedly different style than my style of interaction. What I'm trying to determine are the factors which allow a person with this style to be a compatible partner in a marriage, when they make the choice to change it to a more LTR perspective, with someone who does not have the style to begin with. TBH, I've never been able to 'love' situationally, like 'I love you tonight but you're nothing in the morning'. It's just not a feature of my psychology in any form, even with friends. With strangers, I can enjoy conversation and shake hands and say goodbye, but can't imagine being sexually intimate with them, shaking hands and saying goodbye. 'Hey thanks, nice load. Hope it was good for you'. Hard to wrap my head around that, but I'll work on it.

 

So I would agree that it is easy for me to obtain sex -- I think this is true for all women. But it's not always easy to have my needs met, since my sexual needs are bound up with other things.

 

I quoted this portion to reference your post, but also because it touches upon the heart of my interest in this subject. What I'm fascinated by is how some people can totally segregate the 'bound up with other things' to have casual sex and then, seamlessly, bind them up again to have a LTR or M.

 

 

----------------

 

I understand the differences between elemental and superficial connections and how those respective dynamics affect my psyche. Someone I love (like I loved my exW) is on my mind nearly all the time. We make love to reinforce and validate that elemental connection. The hard part is figuring out how to apply the superficial connection, like with a FWB or casual sex partner, to something as intimate as sharing bodies and genitals. IOW, getting off sexually in the moment without any lasting memory, thought or connection. Then, I try to imagine the other person doing that with many partners, or a few partners repeatedly and, for some reason and by some method, seeing me as 'different' and by some impetus reassemble all the connections between love and sex and memory for that dynamic, or 'switch' between psychological paths.

 

I guess, and this reflects the bad marriage I went through, that I see it as 'fake'. The work is learning to accept that there are other paths that casual sex can take and that elemental connections are possible within that psychology. I also need to reflect on trying a different perspective, outlined by some in the thread, of not loving those I have sex with. I tend to love first, then have sex to express that love, which is why I call it 'lovemaking'. Obviously, that doesn't obtain to casual sex. Since most women my age have had casual sex and are able to process that, it's something I need to work on more to find common ground with them.

 

I'll probably have more questions. This love and sex stuff is sometimes hard for me to put into words that make sense. Thanks for the help

[Knittress]

 

----------------

 

I understand the differences between elemental and superficial connections and how those respective dynamics affect my psyche. Someone I love (like I loved my exW) is on my mind nearly all the time. We make love to reinforce and validate that elemental connection. The hard part is figuring out how to apply the superficial connection, like with a FWB or casual sex partner, to something as intimate as sharing bodies and genitals. IOW, getting off sexually in the moment without any lasting memory, thought or connection. Then, I try to imagine the other person doing that with many partners, or a few partners repeatedly and, for some reason and by some method, seeing me as 'different' and by some impetus reassemble all the connections between love and sex and memory for that dynamic, or 'switch' between psychological paths.

 

I guess, and this reflects the bad marriage I went through, that I see it as 'fake'. The work is learning to accept that there are other paths that casual sex can take and that elemental connections are possible within that psychology. I also need to reflect on trying a different perspective, outlined by some in the thread, of not loving those I have sex with. I tend to love first, then have sex to express that love, which is why I call it 'lovemaking'. Obviously, that doesn't obtain to casual sex. Since most women my age have had casual sex and are able to process that, it's something I need to work on more to find common ground with them.

 

You made total sense to me, and that's how I've viewed sexual-emotional connections in the past - in a more on/off type of sense. Why I mentioned polyamory, is that there is a large body of literature (Including "The Ethical Slut" - which I've found good read, even though I've only gotten through parts of it) that eloquently explain the ideas behind loving outside the traditional 'one person forever' box, in a way that has depth if not exclusivity. I really think it might answer some of your questions more than a thread here might.

 

I think for myself, as I've been working at extending feelings of love and warmth to everyone around me, is that in a certain context I wouldn't feel awkward expressing some those feelings physically. If you think about it, a relationship is one part fuzzies and one part pragmatic life-building - why COULDN'T you feel and express fuzzies with someone you couldn't make a home with, and then cheer them on when they find someone that suits their lifestyle better? In a sense that's true love in action.

 

PS - I felt like sharing with you that in some sense my awful breakup has made my life 100% better in that all the energy I used to sink into a strong link in my relationship has been transformed into my more easily connecting with everyday people. I have a much stronger ability to understand, relate, and be sincerely myself with a wider range of people than I used to.

Edited November 2, 2010 by Knittress

[carhill]

The Ethical Slut discusses how to live an active life with multiple concurrent sexual relationships in a fair and honest way. Discussion topics include how to deal with the practical difficulties and opportunities in finding and keeping partners, maintaining relationships with others, and strategies for personal growth.

It contains chapters discussing how consensual nonmonogamy is handled in different subcultures such as the gay and lesbian communities, information on handling scheduling, jealousy, communication, conflict in relationships, and etiquette for group sexual encounters.

 

 

----------------

 

 

Thanks, I'll look into that. Hey, I'm extending feelings of love and warmth to one of my friend's wives right now, so I'll get back to you. She likes to talk and bribe my cat with treats

[musemaj11]

Women have no idea how handful a penis is.

 

It can make a man go so insane from sexual frustration that he would blow himself up.

 

9/11 should basically end the question of "Who is hornier men or women?" once and for all.

[dreamingoftigers]

Great thread and good insight in this post. Here's a question which is the other side of the coin.

 

What about those men who you know would do you in the drop of a hat... but you're not interested? When there's no challenge?

 

There just isn't as much of a payoff, especially if the guy would do you at the drop of a hat, just the same as he would do any girl, or any girl or your "type."

 

There is no interest in doing a guy that would do anyone, unless you are having a very low day and screwing anyone just to get that kind of attractive feeling is what is happening for you.

 

Typically this would happen after a guy dumps you.

[sumdude]

There just isn't as much of a payoff, especially if the guy would do you at the drop of a hat, just the same as he would do any girl, or any girl or your "type."

 

There is no interest in doing a guy that would do anyone, unless you are having a very low day and screwing anyone just to get that kind of attractive feeling is what is happening for you.

 

Typically this would happen after a guy dumps you.

 

I was speaking more in terms of a guy who really wants YOU in particular and isn't just a p****y hound. But it just seems too easy and he's no challenge.

[dreamingoftigers]

I was speaking more in terms of a guy who really wants YOU in particular and isn't just a p****y hound. But it just seems too easy and he's no challenge.

 

I would think that if he showed determination that that alone would get him some solid points. Worked with my husband. I couldn't even imagine him being attractive until he continually let me know how much he wanted to make me get off without pressuring me to do it with him.

[dreamingoftigers]

I would think that if he showed determination that that alone would get him some solid points. Worked with my husband. I couldn't even imagine him being attractive until he continually let me know how much he wanted to make me get off without pressuring me to do it with him.

 

It actually drove me pretty wild. Made it very hard to resist, and then what he did was he briefly stopped paying attention to me and I was like, "hey wtf?" We hit the sack that week. Very rewarding.

[sumdude]

I would think that if he showed determination that that alone would get him some solid points. Worked with my husband. I couldn't even imagine him being attractive until he continually let me know how much he wanted to make me get off without pressuring me to do it with him.

 

So I'm curious.. how did he walk that thin line?

[Titania22]

Firstly, I have to say, DreamingOfTigers first post on this thread was absolutely brillant. It spelt everything out perfectly. I totally feel this way, but didn't having the combination of words needed to adequately express it.

 

Thankyou so much DreamingOfTigers.

 

 

'I love you tonight but you're nothing in the morning'.

 

In regards to this carhill, I don't go looking for casual sex, but I am not closed to it either. My attitude is not as you wrote, but rather 'I love you tonight, and I still love you in the morning, but if you have moved on I can deal'. In fact if my attitude is going to be you 'mean nothing to me', I refuse to engage in the sex at all.

 

 

 

I understand the differences between elemental and superficial connections and how those respective dynamics affect my psyche. Someone I love (like I loved my exW) is on my mind nearly all the time. We make love to reinforce and validate that elemental connection. The hard part is figuring out how to apply the superficial connection, like with a FWB or casual sex partner, to something as intimate as sharing bodies and genitals. IOW, getting off sexually in the moment without any lasting memory, thought or connection.

 

 

Since I like to have this connection you mention in any and every sexual encounter I might have, I don't see what is wrong with having a lasting memory, thought or connection. What's the point of having any experiences in life, if we just want to forget them afterwards.

 

 

I think for myself, as I've been working at extending feelings of love and warmth to everyone around me, is that in a certain context I wouldn't feel awkward expressing some those feelings physically. If you think about it, a relationship is one part fuzzies and one part pragmatic life-building - why COULDN'T you feel and express fuzzies with someone you couldn't make a home with, and then cheer them on when they find someone that suits their lifestyle better? In a sense that's true love in action.

 

 

This is how I live. If I were only capable of loving someone who wanted to build a life with me, I will be alone, miserable and devoid of all human contact for the rest of my life. And I know that sounds sad, but fortunately I am capable of loving and accepting people as they are, and if once in a while I cross paths with someone and a physically intimate moment occurs, that's brillant.

[carhill]

I actually find this discourse fascinating. I mean, I have many loving relationships in my life, men and women with whom I exchange ILY's and physical affection, but I rarely if ever run across anyone who is female and single to even 'cross paths' with.

 

Question: How do the casual sex folks who do random 'cross paths' situations work out the marital/relationship factor? Does it matter?

 

I ask because a significant number of the women I've known/dated in the past who have casual sex as part of their lifestyle appeared to have fuzzy sexual boundaries surrounding relationship status. Myself, I don't know how I could reliably determine such things within the context of random encounters. Some have spoken of infidelity as 'acceptable' if it's 'just sex'.

 

You know, it occurs to me when I sit back and read this I probably sound like my parent's generation, archaic and old-fashioned.

 

I'll make a deal. If I meet anyone where there is synergy and they're single, I'll try the 'love you now, love you in the morning, without prejudice or attachment' mindset and see how it goes. Concurrently, when dating, I'll ask how the ladies feel about casual sex in general when the topic of sex comes up. Maybe I can learn a few things.

 

Thanks for the insight....

[Knittress]

You know, it occurs to me when I sit back and read this I probably sound like my parent's generation, archaic and old-fashioned.

 

There's nothing backwards about being honest about the way you're wired. Holding up your preferences as morals and your opinions as 'the way things are,' maybe. I know you know this, but I myself always like hear affirmation from others anyway. I believe in free love and wild times, but also know that in most cases I'll just end up getting hurt. Doesn't make either of us a fuddy duddy!

[dreamingoftigers]

So I'm curious.. how did he walk that thin line?

 

WARNING LONG POST

 

Well it was all pretty whirlwind. The first night we met, he sat and listened to my stories like he was really interested and responsive (OMG how I miss THOSE days) then he told me a bunch of his and he made me laugh. Nothing really raunch.

 

He didn't mention previous relationships or sexual encounters.

 

The next time we got together we hung out and talked some more, we went and did a few fun things as friends, then later that night he told me that he really, really liked me and that he didn't want to put any pressure or anything on me (I had just gotten out of a train wreck of a relationship, but this is when most girls are ready to do some heavy-duty bonding, because if a girl is having a hell of a time, a guy who will listen makes a HUGE impression.) but that he would like to hang out with me more.

 

I thought, um, okay, but I really don't find you attractive at all. Sorry man. I felt kinda bad because he had told me lots of stuff and really put it out there.

 

But he was a fun guy so we hung out again and then he started telling me soem crass stuff about getting with me, but he framed it as a joke. I am not stupid. So after being able to get away with that for a little bit, it opened up the floor for discussing sex. He would say things like, "I bet you have the nicest breasts." "You do something physiological to me that I don't want you to mention to everyone on loveshack five years from now." (You get the point). (By this point he had gotten the door so wide open with the quasi-friendship and the jokes and stuff that he had practically earned the licence to say stuff like that).

 

Then after about a week or so of this, he finally made the official requests "I would just like to get you off." (Of course he said this in a different way). He didn't act demanding about sex, or forceful but made it pretty clear he had that interest without pressuring. By this point I wasn't too resistant to him and actually thought about the possibility with him. I had actually laughed at him and turned him down a bunch. But I was curious. It got to the point where I actually wrote "NO" on my hand and even when he wasn't pursuing me if he said something that could be interpreted that way, I flashed my hand and laughed. He had a pretty good humor about the whole thing, very persistant.

 

Then he unlocked the door. After a day or two of rejection, he plain gave up and stopped. Then when we were hanging out again he looked at another girl and it drove me nuts. I had no claim or anything on him, we were friends with bad boundaries and had had a bunch of laughs. But when he did that in front of me and then watched my reaction, he knew he had my attention. Not too long later stuff started between us.

 

If he wouldn't have shown me the attention on the sexual level without being a total jerk or just some predator we wouldn't have progressed forward. (He was willing to put the time in and have fun). A lot of guys figure that if they don't get it on the first try to quit and try someone else. A lot of guys won't get to know the girl first, a lot of guys end up in the friendzone because they can't show the girl that they are hot for her. A lot more guys can show the girl that they like sex (duh!) but not that they are after that girl specifically. You have to make it fun and easy for the girl. Like you want her, but not like you are going to stalk her if she doesn't give it up. You also don't want to give her the impression that she is only one in a lineup of girls the make the cut.

 

My guess is that courtship is like marketing, present yourself like a really good deal, form some type of relationship, offer a sample and then create scarcity "limited time offer."

 

Thin line to walk, but it does make sense.

 

1. Stay positive any time you are pursuing someone, even if they turn you down. Don't show your disappointment, simply say something like "don't worry about it, maybe later on you'll change your mind, if not, that's cool too." Say it with a smile. Even if they aren't into you ever, odds are they will tell their friends that you are a pretty cool guy, not a rude jerk or anything.

 

2. Listen to their stories, gripes and accomplishments. Act like you are interested even if you aren't. It always shocks a girl when a guy can get interested in stories about shopping for shoes. (I can't tell you how many gay guys I developed crushes on only to discover the truth later. I had no gaydar when I was younger.)

 

3. Do fun stuff together but DO NOT earn yourself the title of friend. Act like friends who share stupid stories together. DO NOT mention sex that you have had before or your love life horror stories. Even if she does. Tell her whatever her deal is, it is understandable. "I broke up with my bf because he left his socks on the floor." "Oh that's understandable, I can relate."

 

4. Tell her how much fun she has been doing the xyz stuff together. "This is the funnest time I have ever had shoe shopping, I don't think there is something I would rather do this with." ()

 

5. Then tell her you like her. No pressure.

 

6. Hang out again and then tell her about a certain body part, or mannerism she has that is really sexy (even if she shot you down before). Don't sound too pervy either. Make it fun joke around.

 

7. Then become a little more pursuant.

 

8. If she isn't responding do the bait and switch and the go 180 until she does, and if she never does respond, drop it and try again with the next. But usually if you can get a girl to hang with you for a week and show her that you are fun, open, positive and have healthy desire for her, then you are golden.

 

Basically you sneak up with the friendship and then surprise her with the sex thing, if she sees the sex thing coming a mile away, she's going to ignore you. If she likes you otherwise (personality and such) she is way more likely to want to bang you, even if she is on the fence she might be willing to give it a try instead of lose the little friendship you guys have built. If she trys it out, she'll pretty much be your girl. But you have to maintain it over time, lots of guys figure that once they hunt the girl down, she stays hunted, it doesn't work like that.

 

Women do a similar bait and switch, in my case I kind of fooled him into think it was a sex type thing, but I didn't give up everything right away, just enough to keep him going and wanting more, by that point he got emotionally attached to me.

 

I can't say that this is universal, but holy cow, I have seen stuff like this and have converted a couple of my guy friends to it. Successfully.

 

I might want to add the hesistation with my husband came from the fact that he was HOMELESS and I worked three jobs to get ahead. I didn't care for his choice of lifestyle and it really didn't look like he had a lot going for him. But his personality and persistence really went a long way. (He also hasn't been homeless and unemployed since we got together).

[Titania22]

I'll make a deal. If I meet anyone where there is synergy and they're single, I'll try the 'love you now, love you in the morning, without prejudice or attachment' mindset and see how it goes. Concurrently, when dating, I'll ask how the ladies feel about casual sex in general when the topic of sex comes up. Maybe I can learn a few things.

 

Thanks for the insight....

 

This is cool, because you can never control how someone else feels or behaves, but you can stay true to yourself.

i.e. If I know I don't really care about someone, I can choose not to use them, and if I do really care, I can choose to give myself freely. What they do is their stuff. And I can sleep well, knowing I stayed true to my own way of being, without holding anyone else to the same standard.

[Knittress]

Basically you sneak up with the friendship and then surprise her with the sex thing, if she sees the sex thing coming a mile away, she's going to ignore you. If she likes you otherwise (personality and such) she is way more likely to want to bang you, even if she is on the fence she might be willing to give it a try instead of lose the little friendship you guys have built. If she trys it out, she'll pretty much be your girl. But you have to maintain it over time, lots of guys figure that once they hunt the girl down, she stays hunted, it doesn't work like that.

 

I don't think you're necessarily wrong, but I don't wholly agree with what you said either. Years ago when I was even more naive than I am now, I had a lot of guy friends that would inevitably surprise me by hitting on me at some point in the friendship. It always upset me horribly because while I adored them as friends their actions made me feel manipulated - if I kept being close to them I was in a complicit 'relationship' or being a horrible user. Their announcement of 'feelings' always felt like a betrayal of the friendship.

 

I think this is dangerous advice to put up on LS, some of the guys won't understand the finesse and will totally overdo it. My take is that this is ok if you do it EARLY, and then BACK OFF. You have to plant the seed in the girls mind and then let her come to you, if you think she's 'not getting it' she probably doesn't WANT to get it, and bringing it up more will be 'hounding' her and drive her away.

[dreamingoftigers]

I don't think you're necessarily wrong, but I don't wholly agree with what you said either. Years ago when I was even more naive than I am now, I had a lot of guy friends that would inevitably surprise me by hitting on me at some point in the friendship. (It has to be more then just callously hitting on you). It always upset me horribly because while I adored them as friends their actions made me feel manipulated - if I kept being close to them I was in a complicit 'relationship' or being a horrible user. Their announcement of 'feelings' always felt like a betrayal of the friendship. (That's why I would add an addendum to try this with new girls, if you are already in the friendzone, you may need to try something else.)

 

I think this is dangerous advice to put up on LS, some of the guys won't understand the finesse and will totally overdo it. (Loveshack or not some guys won't get it and totally overdo it, some guys won't do it at all, some guys may choose to fingerpaint. Some conditions may apply. I don't guarantee success, just the odds are way better.) My take is that this is ok if you do it EARLY, and then BACK OFF. (Absolutely correct, this should all take place within the first two weeks.) You have to plant the seed in the girls mind and then let her come to you, if you think she's 'not getting it' she probably doesn't WANT to get it, and bringing it up more will be 'hounding' her and drive her away.

 

(That's why there is the 180, you do the 180 and then reassess when you follow-up, if there is no response, then there is no response. You can flog a dead horse all that you want, it'll only get deader. But at least if the guy drives her away, away she goes instead of him wondering, what if? Or him shooting down his chances with a girl because he thinks that all he needs to do is talk about his junk. LOL)

 

It was a really long post as it was LOL, I am sorry that you had friendship betrayal when you were younger, some guys take a long time to get up the guts to try to get with a girl they like.

[tami-chan]

Not BOB... Robert or Rob, but how is that not with a partner?

 

:lmao:!!!!! :o

[Untouchable_Fire]

:lmao:!!!!! :o

 

Don't laugh... I'm sure if he watched BOB in action his thoughts would be very different on the subject.