denise_xo Posted October 29, 2010 Posted October 29, 2010 Why is it so important that the man pays for the first date? It's a genuine and not a rhetorical question. As an outsider, I don't understand it. This issue seems to be so important, based on the different threads here.
D-Jam Posted October 29, 2010 Posted October 29, 2010 I dunno...it's just an old tradition based on the idea that women didn't work in the past and thus had no money to spend on dating. I've seen the debates back and forth on this, but I'm a fan of traditionalism. I can't explain why, but I just like paying for the first date or first few dates, and I never expect anything in return. Just makes me feel like a man...a gentleman.
EasyHeart Posted October 29, 2010 Posted October 29, 2010 I don't get any particular thrill out of paying. I like my money and I'd prefer to keep it! I pay for dates because women expect me to. It's not any attempt at male dominance. Men pay for dates because women find men who pay for dates desirable.
tinktronik Posted October 29, 2010 Posted October 29, 2010 I don't get any particular thrill out of paying. I like my money and I'd prefer to keep it! I pay for dates because women expect me to. It's not any attempt at male dominance. Men pay for dates because women find men who pay for dates desirable. Bingo. This is your answer. The US is traditional and it's been a long-held tradition that men pay for dates, at least the first few. We also, as a society of women, make less than men on average in general.
Disillusioned Posted October 29, 2010 Posted October 29, 2010 The US, as you probably already know, is a melting pot. It was bad enough that a bunch of Calvinist jerks got here first and started making up the rules and giving the Indians a rough time of it... then every stripe of wog, slope, and honyock started coming over and importing THEIR dating customs. Is it any wonder it's so hard to get a date in Los Angeles???
Stung Posted October 29, 2010 Posted October 29, 2010 In my own experience, I was taught that if you invite someone to join you for a meal/experience, you are providing them with the meal/experience. When I have asked someone else out, I either paid or created a situation that was entertaining but free. When someone else asked me out, I generally expected them to pay or create a situation that was entertaining/free. Anyway, the real emotional underpinnings of the tradition are wooing, IMO. The asker/guy is wooing the girl of his choice, not just paying for her because she's broke. The internet dating generation is changing that a bit--now you get a lot of guys annoyed because they are taking out new multiple new women every weekend, women who are strangers to them, and they don't want to pay for it every time. In the 'olden days', a man more commonly fixated on a particular woman who struck a chord with him, and he wanted to show her he thought she was special, so he took her out and either paid for or planned an experience for both of them, because: wooing. I guess I'm a little old fashioned because even when I tried internet dating, I didn't really multi-date, and I liked to feel as though my date thought I was special, they were making a special effort to be with me specifically. I found that to be an important, albeit not essential, part of the seduction/romance process, for me. Part of creating that mood could come from paying for the date, but it could also come from his planning an interesting/individually tailored event evening (which could be totally free), or just from really good communication on his part. There have definitely been situations where I haven't minded at all going Dutch because the person who asked me communicated really well about it, or did other things to make the experience special. BTW, I have lived in other countries where it was very traditional for the man to ask and pay for the first date, as well. It's hardly pure Americana.
Author denise_xo Posted October 29, 2010 Author Posted October 29, 2010 Thanks, everyone!! To Stung: I know it's not only an American thing and didn't mean to single it out as such - I phrased the OP partially based on the LS crowd, since there are many Americans here.
Untouchable_Fire Posted October 29, 2010 Posted October 29, 2010 Why is it so important that the man pays for the first date? It's a genuine and not a rhetorical question. As an outsider, I don't understand it. This issue seems to be so important, based on the different threads here. I personally think it is a tradition created in a time when women did not really work outside the home often. Anyway, the real emotional underpinnings of the tradition are wooing, IMO. The asker/guy is wooing the girl of his choice, not just paying for her because she's broke. The internet dating generation is changing that a bit--now you get a lot of guys annoyed because they are taking out new multiple new women every weekend, women who are strangers to them, and they don't want to pay for it every time. In the 'olden days', a man more commonly fixated on a particular woman who struck a chord with him, and he wanted to show her he thought she was special, so he took her out and either paid for or planned an experience for both of them, because: wooing. I guess I'm a little old fashioned because even when I tried internet dating, I didn't really multi-date, and I liked to feel as though my date thought I was special, they were making a special effort to be with me specifically. I found that to be an important, albeit not essential, part of the seduction/romance process, for me. Part of creating that mood could come from paying for the date, but it could also come from his planning an interesting/individually tailored event evening (which could be totally free), or just from really good communication on his part. There have definitely been situations where I haven't minded at all going Dutch because the person who asked me communicated really well about it, or did other things to make the experience special. BTW, I have lived in other countries where it was very traditional for the man to ask and pay for the first date, as well. It's hardly pure Americana. This is all true!
carhill Posted October 29, 2010 Posted October 29, 2010 Why is it so important that the man pays for the first date? Nearly everything in an average male's life is competition so he has an intrinsic understanding that he will be competing for the attentions of any particular woman and she generally will (or should) accept the best offer (looks, chemistry, money) on her plate. He has no way of knowing for sure how attractive she finds him, based on chemistry and looks, so he goes with the best offer he has, which only makes sense. The above applies to 'average' males. Universally attractive males, whether from looks, wealth or notoriety, operate under a completely separate set of rules, as women compete for their attention. I still pay for dates, because it is my way, but I do not finance 'dating'. Whatever I can afford is what I suggest. If that's just a cruise in one of the old cars and a burger, then that's what it is. Ladies are free to accept a better offer
Stung Posted October 29, 2010 Posted October 29, 2010 But there was no way for the men to know that. ) Well, actually, there was: we talked to and wrote each other, and we asked and answered each other's questions and got to know each other. Pretty simple and direct. I 'met' a lot of guys online, but I went on to meet very, very few of those guys IRL. When I did meet them it was after weeks of IMing, emailing, and at least a few telephone conversations.
Untouchable_Fire Posted October 29, 2010 Posted October 29, 2010 Well, actually, there was: we talked to and wrote each other, and we asked and answered each other's questions and got to know each other. Pretty simple and direct. I 'met' a lot of guys online, but I went on to meet very, very few of those guys IRL. When I did meet them it was after weeks of IMing, emailing, and at least a few telephone conversations. You should write a book on this! If I'd taken this philosophy earlier... I could have saved myself tons of time. In internet dating I tried to arrange for a date as fast as possible and used the weeding process as an in-person thing. My thought was that in person it's much harder for her to be dishonest with me, since I can usually pick that stuff up quickly. The one instance that drove this home was when I went on a date, we kissed for a half hour... then on the 2nd date while just chatting about stuff, I find out she is actually married and currently living with her husband. They had agreed on divorcing, but were not separated, and he didn't know she was dating yet. No 3rd date.
bac Posted October 30, 2010 Posted October 30, 2010 Why is it so important that the man pays for the first date? It's a genuine and not a rhetorical question. As an outsider, I don't understand it. This issue seems to be so important, based on the different threads here. You really do not understand that. The person, who takes the initiative to invite the other person, pays for dinner. Girls are just more patient, therefore, they are fine to wait for a guy to ask them out. If a guy is fine to wait for a girl to ask him out, he does not have to pay as well. If a girl asks you out, she certainly pays for that.
Green Posted October 30, 2010 Posted October 30, 2010 Thanks, everyone!! To Stung: I know it's not only an American thing and didn't mean to single it out as such - I phrased the OP partially based on the LS crowd, since there are many Americans here. So you wish you were dating an american man eh? You really do not understand that. The person, who takes the initiative to invite the other person, pays for dinner. Girls are just more patient, therefore, they are fine to wait for a guy to ask them out. If a guy is fine to wait for a girl to ask him out, he does not have to pay as well. If a girl asks you out, she certainly pays for that. No girls expect dates to be paid for regaurdless of who asked who. And you are kidding yourself if you think men ask women out because women are just more patient... hahah. What next your going to tell me men generaly propose mariage because men are more patient... Men ask women out because it takes BALLS to ask some one out. (courage to face fear of rejection) And men are the ones expected to propose mariage because once again it requires purchase of an engagement ring and courage.... less courage is needed to nag some one about "when are we going to get married"
Author denise_xo Posted October 30, 2010 Author Posted October 30, 2010 So you wish you were dating an american man eh? Well, this aspect of it is attractive No, seriously, when I've been in those kind of dating situtations it has made me feel uncomfortable. That's not a value judgement, it's just about what you're used to and not used to. Green, you have to change your av. I kept thinking I was talking to TigressA even though I knew it was you.
Feelin Frisky Posted October 30, 2010 Posted October 30, 2010 Deep down I think the tradition comes from men not wanting women to get some power or leverage over them. Women weren't even allowed to vote almost 150 years in the United States. There had to be a totality of male dominion in order for that to last so long--and part of it was "not lettin' bitches get uppity because, next thing they'll think they're smart enough to vote". And voting has always been a matter of cronyism where the results effect who's economically blessed and who is cut out. (Many people believe that today but predominantly it is a default of the right because the wealthy Do live by cronyism. The middle and working classes don't. But they are tricked by the moneyed into believing so to get their votes for their cronies). We still default to the man footing the bill--at least in the initial phases of dating. Most probably don't know why--they just go along and it doesn't occur to them to make the battle against tradition their own at the risk of losing a lay. Frisky History 101.
EasyHeart Posted October 30, 2010 Posted October 30, 2010 Deep down I think the tradition comes from men not wanting women to get some power or leverage over them. Women weren't even allowed to vote almost 150 years in the United States. There had to be a totality of male dominion in order for that to last so long--and part of it was "not lettin' bitches get uppity because, next thing they'll think they're smart enough to vote". And voting has always been a matter of cronyism where the results effect who's economically blessed and who is cut out. (Many people believe that today but predominantly it is a default of the right because the wealthy Do live by cronyism. The middle and working classes don't. But they are tricked by the moneyed into believing so to get their votes for their cronies). We still default to the man footing the bill--at least in the initial phases of dating. Most probably don't know why--they just go along and it doesn't occur to them to make the battle against tradition their own at the risk of losing a lay. Frisky History 101.I think this is just silly. I can say without any hesitation that I have never thought, "I'll show this uppity bitch who's in charge!! I'm gonna buy stuff for her!!!"
bac Posted October 31, 2010 Posted October 31, 2010 (edited) So you wish you were dating an american man eh? No girls expect dates to be paid for regaurdless of who asked who. And you are kidding yourself if you think men ask women out because women are just more patient... hahah. What next your going to tell me men generaly propose mariage because men are more patient... Men ask women out because it takes BALLS to ask some one out. (courage to face fear of rejection) I do expect dates to be paid by a man if he asks me out. I was not kidding myself about patient women, but, sorry, I did not say that it was kind of sarcasm. But, I believe that good things come to those who can wait. For example, the free dinnes come to those women who wait for men to ask them out. Also, I did not know that the main reason why men ask women out is to exercise their courage to face fear of rejection. Edited October 31, 2010 by bac
Feelin Frisky Posted October 31, 2010 Posted October 31, 2010 I think this is just silly. I can say without any hesitation that I have never thought, "I'll show this uppity bitch who's in charge!! I'm gonna buy stuff for her!!!" Apparently you didn't read me all the way and and consider. I said the tradition of men paying for the date still persists but few (if any) no why--we don't know what life was like a hundred years ago (and I tried to explain how it was from my understanding). I didn't say that I or you or anyone today tries to keep women down of consciously tries to wage power over her. Please read, please, think. I try hard to get it right.
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