Guys, can you explain this one to me?

[luvstarved]

OK trying to keep this to the point but with all relevant info: H and I have had ups and downs. We went through pretty long sexless phase which technically ended about 5 years ago, but sex is still kind of impersonal/quick - his choice. Sexless phase was also his idea and sprung from me saying in counseling that our sex life could use some "spicing up"...during that time he masturbated/looked at porn/fantasized about real people and seemed perfectly OK with that. I was not, and threatened divorce if we did not at least try to fix it.

 

After much thought I realized that his sexual history was primarily of masturbation punctuated by occasional short-term relationships. He is not sexually "shy" but is sexually "simple". He does not seem to like doing anything different, and it does seem to be all about him and his equipment.

 

Bottom line, before me, he'd never had a long term relationship and clearly had no idea how to "sustain" one sexually and became insulted at the suggestion (which I thought was obvious) that effort and sustenance was important.

 

Now, I am not judging him on what I am about to describe, I am just trying to understand it, trying to get to some comfort level with it. In many ways our relationship has improved and at times I feel very close and sometimes truly cherished by him. I don't blame him for his behavior but it does make me uneasy and so I am looking for some assistance in interpreting it.

 

Here is what I do not understand: on the days when my H and I actually DO have sex, he is MORE inclined to check out particular women of interest on facebook, etc. The intuitive thing to me would be that he would be thinking more of other women when we go several days without sex...I know that he still masturbates more often than he has sex with me, which I am trying to live with. BUT - it seems now that instead of checking out those women on days when he is looking for fantasy fodder with which to masturbate...he actually DOES NOT on those days...and instead seems to do it on the days when we DO have sex.

 

He SEEMS to enjoy the sex but my interpretation of this is that he is pining for something new. I am a very openminded and sexual person and THINK the issue is more his repression than me being a "dud" IMHO...but I am not sure what to do with this observation. He has in our talking never described me as boring or repressed, more likely that I am "demanding" and "oversexed" or similar...but I have been verrrrrrry careful to let things proceed "his way" and so am confused about this.

 

I only ask because I am trying to think, how should *I* proceed with this? Should I take this as a sign that we still have work to do with him feeling comfortable with me that I am not making sexual demands but trying to be close? Should I take this as he is just flat bored and things will always be this way (since he doesn't want to talk about it?) Is he just "a guy" who is galled at the notion that I am "it" for the rest of his life (presumably)?

 

Have any of you men had similar feelings/behaviors? Can you help me to understand the thinking? I am not looking for knee-jerk "he's just not into you" responses. He has made it clear that he wants to stay married and seems sincere...any ideas on what this is about and what a woman might do to turn it around?

 

I am just finding that I am starting to feel peeved when we have sex and he acts all close and loving and "that was great" and then a couple of hours later, PARTICULARLY on those very days, is checking out the women he seems attracted to...WTF?

[xxoo]

I'm not a guy, but it sounds to me like he prefers masturbation to sex with you for sexual release (sorry, that's difficult to type, but that seems to be the case ). He enjoys sex with you for the intimacy/connection, but it doesn't fulfill him sexually--and instead spikes his need for a "fix" with the fb women/masturbation.

 

How do you know when he is checking out women on facebook?

 

Have you straight-up asked him why he does this?

[Fouts]

Well, it's not that he's not into you for marriage and a long term buddy, but he's just not into you and attracted to you sexually. It's not an easy thing to understand or define luvstarved and it definitely doesn't have anything to do with the way you look or your sexual skills. You can be a 10 and the wildest fu*k on the planet, but someone just isn't into "you" between the sheets.

 

You're going to have to give it up or live without it. Sexual chemistry can't be developed or re-ignited. It's either there all the time or not.

[luvstarved]

He does prefer masturbation, I know that, but we had made progress in this area, or so I thought and this behavior makes me wonder.

 

I think there must be some guys out there who have also experienced this...a desire to think about/look at other women AFTER having sex with your spouse. Just wondering how it reflects on the spouse.

 

I can't come up with a favorable interpretation. Seems to me he is either

 

1) pretending he is having sex with them while having sex with me and looking at them later reinforces this fantasy, like some weird afterglow thing

2) pretending he enjoys the sex but later looking at them and thinking he wishes he could have been with them instead

3) in some strange way, he thinks of them when he masturbates and so he feels like he is "cheating" on his fantasies when he is with me and looks at them online as some sort of strange act of contrition

 

I don't have another option I can think of, and all of these options tell me that our supposedly improving sex life is a big fat lie. Look, I know fantasy happens during sex sometimes. Sometimes I fantasize some generic sexy stuff when he is down on me to take me over the edge...but I am NOT thinking of guys I'd rather be f**king or wishing I could just be off by myself indulging my fantasies freely. And this behavior makes me think that he is.

 

Not sure what I would do with validation of this...I'd LIKE to hear a positive interpretation that I have not thought of...but don't expect one. Wondering if it would be better for both of us if I just released him from his sexual obligation in the marriage...

[luvstarved]

Well, it's not that he's not into you for marriage and a long term buddy, but he's just not into you and attracted to you sexually. It's not an easy thing to understand or define luvstarved and it definitely doesn't have anything to do with the way you look or your sexual skills. You can be a 10 and the wildest fu*k on the planet, but someone just isn't into "you" between the sheets.

 

You're going to have to give it up or live without it. Sexual chemistry can't be developed or re-ignited. It's either there all the time or not.

 

No it isn't me but it isn't anyone else either. He really prefers masturbation...he hadn't had a relationship last more than 2months prior to me, and he was in his 30s when we met! He's just gotten bored and bailed I guess. He was into me for 3 years so I outlasted the rest of them FWIW, but he just hasn't been able to "keep it up" (pun intended) over the long term. I thought all that was changing, we were talking a bit more openly, understanding each other more, and having "physical success" in bed and he seemed happy with it. But if his happiness is based on him having to mentally exclude me from the sex, then...there goes my happiness.

[luvstarved]

Oh and yes I have tried to straight up talk to him. He won't go there. It is one area we still can't talk about...I thought that was OK with the improvements but now it just adds to the frustration.

 

He just lies and denies everything even when confronted with concrete proof. In his mind, we have a perfectly fine sex life, he "rarely masturbates", only has eyes for me, and is "not the kind of guy" to think of other women that way. When he was looking at porn, he claimed that it jumped out at him without warning through no fault of his own. When I told him I saw that he misspelled "amateur", he STILL denied it and took the further step of changing the subject to my "disturbing issues with trust". Meanwhile, I can HEAR him jerking off in the bathroom in the morning, nearly every day, just part of the morning ritual...

 

And yes I have a keylogger but he is fully aware that it is there. This moderates his activities but his patterns are still transparent. (The keylogger was installed to monitor my daughter who had become part of a bad crowd for a while)

[Fouts]

What you're describing seems devoid of intimacy and passion. It just doesn't sound appealing (no offense). Maybe don't dwell on the sex as much and focus on other aspects of the marriage that are appealing.

[luvstarved]

What you're describing seems devoid of intimacy and passion. It just doesn't sound appealing (no offense). Maybe don't dwell on the sex as much and focus on other aspects of the marriage that are appealing.

 

I am starting to think of it as equivalent to him being gay. He is NOT gay as women are strictly his objects of interest, but with the same level of impossibility for change.

 

Although thinking about it when a guy's sex life revolves around playing with a c**k, even if it is his own, does seem kinda gay at some level.

 

I have tried to ignore it but so far can't convince myself that I could survive going back to sexless marriage...but maybe that is the right thing to do for both of us.

[You Go Girl]

I'm starting to suspect that these type of cases involve a true fear of intimacy. Wait, not starting to believe, absolutely do believe.

If a person, man or woman, feels that sex is something they have to do, that it is something that is a little bit uncomfortable, they will try to avoid it.

He is more comfortable with just him and fantasy. He doesn't want a real person in his main sexual relationship, because that is threatening to his being comfortable and completely relaxed. Masturbation is secret. Nobody gets to see him do it, yet he can see other women and they don't know it. It's all a need for anonymity, secrecy, and a very small comfort zone sexually when it comes to involving other people, you, or past women.

It's something he does alone. Why alone? Because it's shameful perhaps?

He needs to be alone with his shame? He can't share his shame? His shame is somehow a comfortable place because he's all alone and nobody can see him doing it?

Ask him.

One thing probable, this one isn't having an affair.

 

For example: Some people need a lot of time alone. I do. Not sexually though, like your man. But I need time alone to regenerate the ability to enjoy people, much less tolerate them.

So he is more comfortable crawling into his own little sexual world than sharing his sexuality with someone else.

He's a sexual introvert?

Or...is it simple immaturity?

[Fouts]

I am starting to think of it as equivalent to him being gay. He is NOT gay as women are strictly his objects of interest, but with the same level of impossibility for change.

 

Although thinking about it when a guy's sex life revolves around playing with a c**k, even if it is his own, does seem kinda gay at some level.

 

I have tried to ignore it but so far can't convince myself that I could survive going back to sexless marriage...but maybe that is the right thing to do for both of us.

 

I guess it'd make him bi then

 

If you have children, yes, they are more important than your sex life. Just do what's best and have alot of great fantasies ready for when you get some privacy and can rub one out

[giotto]

2) pretending he enjoys the sex but later looking at them and thinking he wishes he could have been with them instead

 

I think it's the one above. I also think he is not that attracted to you sexually and he has sex with you because it's a little extra (on top of his other virtual sexual world he prefers) he has to deal with not to lose you. If the rest of the relationship is fine, then this way he can have his cake and eat it...

[luvstarved]

luvstarved,

 

how do you relate to him in other areas of your life?

 

If you're like the typical female who posts threads on loveshack, you're probably bossy, demanding, pushy, & b*tchy.

 

I know I know....your reaction is probably going to be "Who me??? Why you SEXIST!!!"

 

Maybe his resentment at this behavior is translating to passive-aggressive behavior in the sexual arena.

Oh I think he does think of me as all of those things and I know it does not help. But I can't say ANYTHING about his behavior without him jumping to the idea that I am trying to trash him, blame him or control him. But, those are his conclusions, not my intention. Example, he always shuts lights off in the house even when someone is using them. We have all asked him DOZENS of times to please not do this and once in a while we say it impatiently. We don't call names or anything but he takes it as being criticized and attacked.

 

Another example, the other night he asked for advice because he was worried about his work dynamic changing when his boss retires. There is one woman who had come on to him that is his superior and could be in line to become his direct boss. The come-ons happened like 10 months ago, we talked about it, I was upset but let it go and did not even MENTION her for last 8 months. But since he WANTED to talk about the work dynamic, I asked if she had relapsed back into that behavior, because I thought it quite relevant to the work dynamic he was asking about. He went off, saying that my mind was in the weeds and then started yelling that I was unsupportive and was accusing him of things and (his parents were sitting right there) said to his parents "See what kind of support I get around here? See what kind of wife I have to put up with?"

 

So I am bitchy and pushy and critical and have trust issues and accuse him and trash him - even when I don't. Not sure what to do with that! We had made some progress when I pointed out that I do NOT call him names, I do NOT jump down his throat the minute he does or says something I don't like, and that I am human and get impatient too but does not mean I don't love him. That having an issue with someone's behavior and asking them to stop is not the same as calling names and lying and twisting everything to be something wrong with THEM.

[luvstarved]

Oh jebus....

 

get down on your knees once in a while and give your h an awesome loving blowjob until he explodes all over your face.

 

That'll take his mind off Facebook.

 

Any other questions?

 

Our foreplay such as it is consists of a blowjob but even there he has to control the situation. He doesn't want my hands in there, he does not want me to move, he wants to control the movement, he wants it to proceed quickly, go until he is just hard and then transfer to intercourse. Only a few times has it gone to "completion". If I try to do anything different or take my time, he'll act impatient and sigh or say something like, is there a problem? or what are you doing? I've given a lot of guys a lot of blow jobs so I know it isn't my lack of skills, but it is a lack of knowing how I am supposed to use any skills when I am supposed to be completely passive in the situation.

[luvstarved]

You Go Girl, yes I think he is both introverted and immature on this but now he is 50 so WTF do I expect to change? This is how he is! Even when I have tried to talk about technical aspects, he cuts me off with the idea that I am making mountains out of molehills, telling him he is not performing up to snuff or exhibiting low self-esteem and just end the conversation with "it's fine! it's fine!"

 

I do think he has shame because he minimizes or even denies the masturbation, definitely denied looking at porn - even when faced with proof, and one day will (in a weak moment I guess) admit to having such thoughts and feelings then later deny he said it! He claims that he does not think that way and that I am calling him a pervert for suggesting that. I have TOLD him NO, I do not think you are a pervert, I think you are a human male - and I am not trying to make you something you aren't, just trying to see if there is any way that my needs can get addressed in this situation...THEN he comes out with, I am just a simple guy, I do want you, we just need time together blah blah but...nothing really changes. I THOUGHT they were in the process of changing but now feeling bummed to realize that was just an illusion. He wasn't starting to connect, he'd just found a coping mechanism. GA-REAT!

[giotto]

seems a very toxic relationship to me. He's been passive/aggressive and totally immature. I don't know why people put up with such sh*t...

[JackJack]

luvstarved, so what are you planning on doing? Staying, leaving? You deserve someone who can fully give themselves to you, it sounds like he can not.

[luvstarved]

I think it's the one above. I also think he is not that attracted to you sexually and he has sex with you because it's a little extra (on top of his other virtual sexual world he prefers) he has to deal with not to lose you. If the rest of the relationship is fine, then this way he can have his cake and eat it...

 

Well I think if it is number 2 then number 1 probably factors in there too. I don't know. Women he looks at are often our age so I don't think it is that, I haven't gained weight or anything...

 

But yes I feel kind of powerless here because if I end our sexual relationship then that is good news for him and then I am back to not having a sex life at all.

 

Things WERE good and I think what happened was that when boredom set in, as it inevitably does, rather than try to work together to increase the intimacy and comfort - which I think are the only ways to sustain sexual interest in a LTR - he rejected the need for it and alternately painted himself as a noble spiritual creature and me as a sex-crazed pervert. Meanwhile he's the one with all the external sexual thoughts.

 

I want a sex life but not like this...part of me thinks, hey, he's trying and this is what works for him, just take it for what it is. I struggle not to feel rejected/humiliated by this though and don't succeed much.

 

On one occasion he had looked at this particular woman in the morning when he first woke up. Then we had sex. We were in the pool and floating and holding hands and he was saying all these sweet things about our love and our future and then when we went back in the house - he sat right down and started looking at her again - for over a half hour!

 

That's another weird aspect - he seems to fixate primarily on one woman for long stretches of time...so I wonder if they aren't just fantasy fodder but some kind of actual virtual girlfriend who does and says exactly what he wants...OMG. I don't know where to go with this.

[giotto]

Well I think if it is number 2 then number 1 probably factors in there too. I don't know. Women he looks at are often our age so I don't think it is that, I haven't gained weight or anything...

 

But yes I feel kind of powerless here because if I end our sexual relationship then that is good news for him and then I am back to not having a sex life at all.

 

Things WERE good and I think what happened was that when boredom set in, as it inevitably does, rather than try to work together to increase the intimacy and comfort - which I think are the only ways to sustain sexual interest in a LTR - he rejected the need for it and alternately painted himself as a noble spiritual creature and me as a sex-crazed pervert. Meanwhile he's the one with all the external sexual thoughts.

 

I want a sex life but not like this...part of me thinks, hey, he's trying and this is what works for him, just take it for what it is. I struggle not to feel rejected/humiliated by this though and don't succeed much.

 

On one occasion he had looked at this particular woman in the morning when he first woke up. Then we had sex. We were in the pool and floating and holding hands and he was saying all these sweet things about our love and our future and then when we went back in the house - he sat right down and started looking at her again - for over a half hour!

 

That's another weird aspect - he seems to fixate primarily on one woman for long stretches of time...so I wonder if they aren't just fantasy fodder but some kind of actual virtual girlfriend who does and says exactly what he wants...OMG. I don't know where to go with this.

 

sorry to say this, luvstarved, but he sounds like a real nutcase! I couldn't put up with this kind of lunacy. Can't remember your story (do you have children?), but don't think you can fix him...

[luvstarved]

The mother thing is an issue but not that she was domineering and controlling - au contraire! She pampered him, did not teach him respect and courtesy and in any conflict with others, he was always right and the other person was just a "jealous jerk". When he says unfair things about me, she agrees with him - I even overheard her telling him that I was just a miserable pain in the ass...it's just not true. I am a very fair and rational and understanding person. She was his personal doormat and shielded him from growing up - he lived at home til we got married when he was 38 - and actually never left home because we bought their house and they moved to a condo (he wanted to build an addition and keep them here but I put the kibosh on that). When I objected to her calling me a miserable pain in the ass, he at first denied she even said it, then defended her by saying she is under a lot of stress and I was wrong and unfair to ask her to please leave my home if she was going to talk about me like that.

THEY trash me unfairly and then when I object, I validate their opinion that I am "mean".

 

I do not think he is having any affair with the boss. I think his anger was just from some weird guilt that he probably still fantasizes about, what if he had taken her up on her offer?

 

I want to have some sort of conversation with him that reflects reality but every time I try, I am just shallow and oversexed and expecting too much from him.

 

I could put on blinders I guess but I don't want to live with blinders on. I don't mean this as harsh as it might sound, but he is not a very clever person so even when he tries to cover his tracks, his behavior shines through quite clearly...

 

He has good qualities that I value - I do think he is "technically" faithful, he is sober, goes to work every day, likes to do family stuff, tries to be spiritual and can be supportive in some ways. I think he is too scared by most women to have a real affair, and I worry less about the ones who aggressively come on to him (of which there have been several) than the sweet one that he feels "understands" him, who as far as I know does not currently exist - but that's the one that scares me, the one that DOESN'T scare him!!!

[xxoo]

I think that sex with you gets him turned on (the mechanics, the physical stimulation) but not satisfied. Even if he orgasms, it is not satisfying to him because it is not his hand and his fantasy world. He requires the fantasy and masturbation for sexual satisfaction.

 

Him micromanaging the sexual encounters reinforces this for me--he has a fantasy running in his mind, and he is avoiding anything that distracts him from that fantasy. If he relinquishes any control to you, you'll do things that don't fit with his fantasy, and without it, he may not even be able to perform or climax.

 

That's another weird aspect - he seems to fixate primarily on one woman for long stretches of time...so I wonder if they aren't just fantasy fodder but some kind of actual virtual girlfriend who does and says exactly what he wants...OMG. I don't know where to go with this.

 

Accept that the sexual situation is unlikely to get better without IC and/or sex therapy--and maybe not even with counseling. Decide if you can live with it. If not, leave.

[giotto]

He has good qualities that I value - I do think he is "technically" faithful, he is sober, goes to work every day, likes to do family stuff, tries to be spiritual and can be supportive in some ways.

 

I don't think he should be praised for what you mention here... this is normal stuff, stuff any decent man would do regardless. He doesn't deserve a medal for that. You are twisting the situation, trying to find pleasant sides in his personality. The fact is that he is very unpleasant towards you, has a clear sexual problem and big big issues because of his upbringing. He lived at home until he was 38? WTF? Just that is a MASSIVE red flag. I'm afraid you've found yourself a very dysfunctional man and you'll have to live with it... but you know, there are people out there who have the same good qualities as your husband and are not f*cked up. You can do better than that.

[luvstarved]

I think that sex with you gets him turned on (the mechanics, the physical stimulation) but not satisfied. Even if he orgasms, it is not satisfying to him because it is not his hand and his fantasy world. He requires the fantasy and masturbation for sexual satisfaction.

 

Him micromanaging the sexual encounters reinforces this for me--he has a fantasy running in his mind, and he is avoiding anything that distracts him from that fantasy. If he relinquishes any control to you, you'll do things that don't fit with his fantasy, and without it, he may not even be able to perform or climax.

 

 

 

Accept that the sexual situation is unlikely to get better without IC and/or sex therapy--and maybe not even with counseling. Decide if you can live with it. If not, leave.

 

Yeah it's that deciding part. That's the toughie...there are pros to staying. I have lived with other men and wouldn't want to go back to them either. I tend to gravitate toward quirky guys then end up suffering from their quirks!!! This is who I've lived with 1) womanizer who insisted on open marriage 2) sweet sweet guy with near-zero libido and no interests outside of cars and electronics 3) intellectual soulmate who happened to be bisexual (I could not deal with that, so maybe my problem there) 4) exotic guy of different race and foreign country - did not anticipate the depth of cultural differences 5) current H

 

So - if I don't want any of that, maybe I do expect too much! That's what I keep thinking, new guy just means a new set of problems that may have similar slim chance of being fixable. Why go through that again? Better to try to adjust myself to where I am. But, it's not easy...

[You Go Girl]

Well, cat's out of this bag. His mother is the problem. She spoiled him for any and all other women. She has that 'my son is mine first and forever' and all other women must be secondary in his life, or I have lost him.

He was raised to love his mother first. Nothing wrong with loving one's mother, but his mother has a psychological grip on him he probably will never be free of.

Your man can't grow up because of what his mother has done to him psychologically.

She's taught him to be selfish to a degree that he can't see a give and take sexual relationship. He simply doesn't understand one.

A few wake up calls are in order. Call a therapist and insist upon counseling. Insist. Don't take no for an answer.

This problem manifested itself in your sex life as the most obvious and glaring, but it is part of a larger dysfunction.

Or...live with him the way he is.

You could at least refuse to let him control a bj. A bj is a gift, and the giver decides what the gift is--meaning how it is delivered. Just like any other gift, it is from you, and expressed by you. His idea of a bj is to tell you exactly what he wants for Christmas, and expect exactly that under the tree. Where's the giving and fun and surprise in that? There isn't any of course.

Start shaking things up. Demand that he go down on you before intercourse, instead of the bf. Get on top if he's always wanting the dominant position. Yeah, I know, even writing this, that it isn't going to work. But you get the idea--refuse to play the game HIS WAY.

Your H doesn't realize that you are not a blow up doll and that there are two people with desires and needs.

He doesn't know what intimacy is, he's so one-sided. Is there a little gap somewhere in his intimacy wall? Conversation, church, the house, anywhere that you can bust through? What aspect of your marriage is the one in which you are the most successful at being heard? Run with that if you can figure out what it is. Apply similarly successful tactics on other areas of the marriage.

[Tinkerbell1]

The things that you have described about your H really indicate that he has sexual/intimacy issues and keeps making things your fault. I dont know how your self esteem could be surviving with what has been going on. I would strongly suggest IC for yourself so you can figure out what you need to do for you and how to go about it. Honestly, it sounds like staying in this relationship, even if you could make peace without the sexual intimacy, wouldnt be great for you. From what you write, he sounds toxic in other areas as well. Just because you have a rocky history with past relationships does not mean that you have to continue on that path. Go to counseling and work on your own issues. Its amazing what we can change for the better when we put our mind to it. Good luck and please dont let this man put you down or blame you for his own issues anymore. Oh, the fact that he said something derogatory to his parents about you in front of you... disrespectful, red flag, not at all acceptable! He is toxic.

[xxoo]

So - if I don't want any of that, maybe I do expect too much! That's what I keep thinking, new guy just means a new set of problems that may have similar slim chance of being fixable. Why go through that again? Better to try to adjust myself to where I am. But, it's not easy...

 

Better yet, be alone for a while and adjust to that. Figure out what your dealbreakers are before getting involved with a new man. Don't even THINK about starting a new relationship until you are strong enough to ***walk away*** early on if there are redflags for dealbreakers.

 

It is true that all relationships have challenges. It is not true that all relationships involved tolerating soul-crushing behavior. In my time on message boards, I've noticed that posters in bad relationships overestimate the problems of typical relationships in order to justify staying in their relationship. I really mean this to be supportive, and not harsh, but if you consistently have unsatisfactory relationships, consider the common denominator: you. That doesn't mean you are a bad person, but it means you are going about something wrong. It is probably time to get out the relationships, clear you head and your life of the drama, get some IC, and come out the other side more prepared to begin a healthy, rewarding relationship.