Prom Royalty

[Taramere]

I have to say, though my years in HS were an abomination that no one should have to suffer, I did feel a bit sorry for the "popular" people, particularly the girls. They all had this image to keep up, and most everyone else didn't. I remember getting compliments from a lot of the girls about the outfits I wore, saying "I wish I could dress like that". It wasn't because they didn't have the money--I bought most of my clothes from thrift stores--it was because they didn't have the courage to stand out and break away from the pack mentality. I would hear rumors of abusive relationships, immense pressure to have sex/get drunk/etc. None of that stuff ever touched me.

 

I attended an American High School football game once, years back, when I was on holiday there. The cheerleaders were pretty enough looking girls, but generally unremarkable looking, and I'm sure they couldn't have been the prettiest girls in the school. More probably they were the ones who were most prepared to push themselves forward and, as you say, do what it took to fit in.

 

The members of our Homecoming Court were a mixed bag. The guys were the hottest and most talented football players (my high school was a BIG football school, the athletes were like celebrities) and the girls were basically the top students, athletes and do-gooders (but honestly weren't that attractive).

 

 

 

I'm sure if my school had had anything like that, it would have been a similar result. The girls who the school (ie the teachers) liked and therefore deemed to be the popular girls were generally swots and arse-kickers who were happy to give up their free time to play hockey in the freezing cold. I can imagine any one of them being crowned by one of the hatchet-faced old crones who made my schooldays unpleasant.

Edited October 27, 2010 by Taramere

[Taramere]

I'm guessing this a huge reason why I never really bought into the popularity contests, of voting for Mr & Mrs -- High School or prom queen or Best Looking or even homecoming court. It was all just a bunch of hokey BS in my way of thinking, and just another means of conforming.

 

This is what got me starting the thread. We were talking, in another thread, about people being marginalised. Another poster suggested that women aren't attracted to men who get marginalised.

 

I thought, well, I don't really get that because I would imagine most people I'd find interesting and likeable would have been liable to get marginalised in the average American High School...as my perception, from afar, of High schools has always been that popularity hinges primarily on a person putting great effort into conforming.

[SincereOnlineGuy]

with regard the appointment of a "King/Queen" of the High School Prom, is this

 

 

 

 

C) Something we all need to understand in order to make better sense of constant references, analogies and quick summations of people during stupid stories we trade at the water cooler.

 

When you can simply reference a "prom queen" when meaning a girl who was a hottie, at least at the time, and possibly still today, instead of having to give a curve-by-curve description of why she was or seemed so "hot", then you can more easily fit it into your coffee/smoke break!! (LOL)

[EasyHeart]

This is what got me starting the thread. We were talking, in another thread, about people being marginalised. Another poster suggested that women aren't attracted to men who get marginalised.

 

I thought, well, I don't really get that because I would imagine most people I'd find interesting and likeable would have been liable to get marginalised in the average American High School...as my perception, from afar, of High schools has always been that popularity hinges primarily on a person putting great effort into conforming.

Well, I don't think you can think of an American high school (sorry, I don't know where you are!) as a single entity. My class had over 400 people in it, and I know a lot of people who went to schools with 600-1000 people per class. People belong to cliques, and each person has a place in his/her clique, and then each clique has it's place in the social hierarchy. And you can belong to multiple cliques. So, for instance, there are bound to be the Jock clique, the Goody-goody clique and the stoner clique in any school. In one school, the jocks may be the dominant clique; in another the stoners or the goody-goodies might be the dominant clique. Jocks might tolerate the goodie-goodies, but marginalize the nerds. And if I'm the star quarterback, I might be at the top of the Jock clique, while a swimmer might be near the bottom. And a basketball player who smokes a lot of pot might belong to both the jock and the stoner clique.

 

It seems to me that to be truly marginalized in high school, you would have to be excluded from every clique. And to be an alpha male and be marginalized from every cliche would be rare. More likely, you would just become the dominant male in one of the other cliques.

 

There's not many guys like Heath Ledger in '10 Things I Hate About You'.

[tman666]

At my high school there were plenty of non-jock popular kids. I recall plenty of dance royalty being from choir, student council, and even occasionally from band.

 

I would have to say that A) it's an honor for most people.

 

However, I know that most people, including myself, never gave a wet ***** whether or not they were ever voted into something like that. Most of us were preoccupied with our own little social circles, the royalty crowd being in a small social circle of their own.

[Woggle]

It's pretty much a popularity contest.

[that girl]

So much of this depends on the school.

 

I can't tell you who won homecoming queen. The people who cared were jocks and I was more alternative. It was an earnest thing though.

 

There were two other formals in the spring and fall and they each elected someone (one a boy, one a girl) who was supposed to be both good looking and nice. It wasn't something I cared about, but I do remember the girl who won my year (who was the prettiest girl I went to school with and very nice) ended up losing friends who were jealous.

 

Homecoming was a semi-big deal. The criteria was the student who had done the most for the school. The people elected were well liked, but it was a broader cross section of people. Student government, drama club, charity clubs, etc.

 

The cheerleaders weren't the popular girls in my high school. The popular girls usually played field hockey. But it wasn't even that they were popular-popular. I didn't care about them at all. It was more they were the top of the heap of the jock crowd and the jock crowd was pretty big. They also tended to be very involved in student government and dance organization comittees.

[Crazy Magnet]

At my high school it was always a big popularity contest. A friend of mine was Prom Queen my senior year but I can't remember who the dude was to save my life. I remember the year after me though because a dating couple won and I thought it was sort of neat.

 

Homecoming was also a HUGE deal that was HUGE popularity contest.

 

I ran with the band/drama geek crowd with the rest of the smart and nerdy people. But I was also a dancer and had been taking lessons since age 3 so I had grown up in dance classes with all the cheerleader/popular girls who won everything. They always thought of me as one of "them" and I always thought they were stuck up bitches. Ah, High School....how I hated thee.

 

I've found things to be much better on the other side of graduation!

[florence of suburbia]

It depends on the region you grew up in, the size of the school, the year you graduated, etc. etc.

 

I have a close friend whose daughter goes to the same HS we attended together in Austin, TX, during the early to mid 80s. My friend's daughter says it is not clique-ish at all anymore, but it certainly was in 1986.

 

I would describe about half the student population as "conventionally invested" in school activities. This included jocks and "preppies," band and choir "geeks" and a group known as the "kickers" (people who wore western boots, dipped snuff and spit it on the sidewalk. Remember, this was Texas) as well as wannabee types who tried but didn't measure up.

 

I'd say we were "intellectual druggies".

 

You could also sort of tell who cared about prom based on the music they liked. Van Halen's "Panama" comes to mind as a song that the conventional crowd loved, and also Huey Louis, Madonna, Bruce Springsteen (who I like now).

 

My friends and I were listening to Talking Heads, old Sex Pistols, Pink Floyd, David

Bowie, etc. I guess there was some crossover with U2. Didn't everyone like them in 1986?

 

Anyway, to answer the original question, we thought anyone who liked popular music was a moron. We felt the same about the prom stuff.

 

There's actually a coworker at my job who was prom king at his school. I don't know how it came up, but another male coworker likes to bring it up and jab him about it all the time. I think there is some jealousy there, as the former prom king is definitely an alpha male type, extremely hard working. Things come easily to him even now.

[Pfiend101]

Popularity contest. I was somewhat of a badboy and thought it should have been me. lmao We partied instead.

[Taramere]

I would describe about half the student population as "conventionally invested" in school activities. This included jocks and "preppies," band and choir "geeks" and a group known as the "kickers" (people who wore western boots, dipped snuff and spit it on the sidewalk. Remember, this was Texas) as well as wannabee types who tried but didn't measure up.

 

That's what I don't quite get. The extent to which American teenagers are, as you say, invested in school activities. In the UK, I think it's more normal for people to look outside of school for their hobbies. I played the piano, and was several grades ahead of anyone else in my class who played it. My parents used to get really pissed off at carol serivices, prize givings etc (on the rare occasions they actually attended) because other girls would play an instrument - often the piano - as part of the occasion. "You should be doing that. Why aren't you telling them what grade you're on" Because I wouldn't be seen dead doing that, that's why. (name of schoolfriend's fanciable brother) might be there. How could I ever recover from the embarrassment?

 

Probably quite a negative outlook, but I think it's a common one here.

 

Popularity contest. I was somewhat of a badboy and thought it should have been me. lmao

 

Surely being appointed as the school Prom King and having a crown placed on your head in celebration of the moment would disqualify you from Bad Boy status for a minimum of 7 years (or 2.5 with bad behaviour)?

Edited October 28, 2010 by Taramere

[florence of suburbia]

That's what I don't quite get. The extent to which American teenagers are, as you say, invested in school activities.

 

Typically, American parents like to see their kids properly socialized and to schedule their days with endless activities so they don't have too much time on their hands, which leads to sex and drugs.

[Taramere]

Typically, American parents like to see their kids properly socialized and to schedule their days with endless activities so they don't have too much time on their hands, which leads to sex and drugs.

 

I can understand that, and certainly when I was at school my free time was activity-packed to a degree that often got on my nerves...but the activities were with organisations that weren't related to the school. Although I might meet the occasional person from school there, most of the other kids would be from different schools. For me, that was better than doing activities through the school. It was mildly frustrating at times to be at school and hear other girls being labelled as "the best" at things I was good at, because they did those activities through the school rather than outside of it....but it was a price I felt was well worth paying.

 

If I could have articulated it back then, I'd have probably said that it was extremely important for me to have an identity that was very independent from my school, and the other people in it. Our school wasn't a particularly healthy environment. It was an all girls, private one. Combine a large number of young, often very physically attractive, girls (many of them were from overseas) with an almost exclusively female staff - most of whom were middle aged or elderly, and probably riddled with resentment or stress from the toxic staffroom environment. Generally most of the pupils were very nice, but the teachers were a different matter. A lot of those old battle-axes were merciless in trying to batter down the confidence of girls they didn't take to. It wasn't an environment I was keen to spend any more time in than necessary.

 

So because of my own personal experience I'm probably a bit biased against the notion of children being too dependent (ie in developing their confidence and sense of identity) on the school. On the other hand, I can see that there would be advantages in helping to foster a very community minded approach, and putting the emphasis on children to adapt themselves to fit in with a certain system (survival of the most adaptable, and all that). Also, it would help the school identify children's strengths and weaknesses more thoroughly.

Edited October 29, 2010 by Taramere

[florence of suburbia]

I wonder if the experience you're describing with sadistic teachers is more common to the UK. Popular culture coming out of the UK from Dickens to Pink Floyd (and beyond) is full of references.

 

In the US, you do hear stories about yard-stick welding nuns and abusive gym coaches and the like, but nothing as wide-spread and malignant as what you hear about schools in the UK.

[Crusoe]

I wonder if the experience you're describing with sadistic teachers is more common to the UK. Popular culture coming out of the UK from Dickens to Pink Floyd (and beyond) is full of references.

 

In the US, you do hear stories about yard-stick welding nuns and abusive gym coaches and the like, but nothing as wide-spread and malignant as what you hear about schools in the UK.

 

Times have changed, but once upon a time the cane, belt and slipper were a common part of UK education. I had a taste of all three on quite a few occasions. At my primary school, kids who wet themselves in class were made to stand in a cupboard for the remainder of the lesson, and kids wet themselves quite often because they were to scared to ask to go to the toilet. Then there was the dunce's cap and being made to stand in the corner if you got the answer to a question wrong. Don't quite know how that was supposed to educate a kid. In my grammar school, if you failed at sport you were made to take your shower, then go outside to dry off and get dressed infront of the girl school opposite. It was just part of normal school life back then. I think most of us hated it and wanted to be as far away from school as possible.

[gypsy_nicky]

I have a question about American culture. This might not be the right section, but as it was inspired by another thread in this section I thought I'd put it in here. What I want to know is this. Whether you're at High School now, or whether you attended 20+ years ago, with regard the appointment of a "King/Queen" of the High School Prom, is this

 

a) An honour that any self respecting teen could base a lifetime of high self esteem upon, or

b) A humiliation to be avoided using all legal means at one's disposal?

 

they can be both, it depends on the socioeconomic status and diversity of the highschool's student population.

But almost always its A.

[Taramere]

Times have changed, but once upon a time the cane, belt and slipper were a common part of UK education. I had a taste of all three on quite a few occasions. At my primary school, kids who wet themselves in class were made to stand in a cupboard for the remainder of the lesson, and kids wet themselves quite often because they were to scared to ask to go to the toilet. Then there was the dunce's cap and being made to stand in the corner if you got the answer to a question wrong. Don't quite know how that was supposed to educate a kid. In my grammar school, if you failed at sport you were made to take your shower, then go outside to dry off and get dressed infront of the girl school opposite. It was just part of normal school life back then. I think most of us hated it and wanted to be as far away from school as possible.

 

Jesus. Your school sounds particularly bad. Is it still open?

 

I think some of the boarding schools were also fairly freaky...and although we like to thing things are better in more recent years. A couple of years ago I was talking to a guy in his twenties who had been in the papers for the retribution he took against his former boarding school. He'd only been out of school for a few years.

 

I wonder if the experience you're describing with sadistic teachers is more common to the UK. Popular culture coming out of the UK from Dickens to Pink Floyd (and beyond) is full of references.

 

In the US, you do hear stories about yard-stick welding nuns and abusive gym coaches and the like, but nothing as wide-spread and malignant as what you hear about schools in the UK.

 

Well, corporal punishment was outlawed in 1987. Even before that, we didn't have it at my school....but they had it at most schools, and I know that my brother got the belt fairly regularly. My own experience of teachers wasn't good. The year I spent in NZ was completely different. I really enjoyed school there, though I was pretty taken aback by the academic standards compared to my usual school. I was seven at the time, and some of the kids could barely read or write. I think my school in the UK pushed children academically from a younger age than most did.

 

I was a year younger than the class average, and although I managed well academically there were certain practical things I struggled with learning. I can remember being ridiculed a lot by the teacher I had between the age of 4 and 6 , and feeling horribly stupid. Struggling to tie my shoelaces. That kind of thing. Even though I was too young to fully understand why, when we went to NZ I got the sense that the teachers liked children. School was fun, rather than a dreary place where you always seemed to get yelled at for the slightest thing.

[Crusoe]

Jesus. Your school sounds particularly bad. Is it still open?

 

 

Sound terrible when written down like that but at the time it's all we knew. Yes both still open.

 

Although only a year younger my sisters school was very different, a mixed comp. It was much more modern and relaxed, they even had a prom night. She hated that night. The problems she faced were from other students, a lot of bullying and social pressure. Much more Grange Hill.

[americanstreamer]

The peer pressure is immense. Do what you are good at, and then make your presence felt. No one can take that away from you.

[florence of suburbia]

This is getting pretty far off the original topic, but from what I've read it was common practice at boys' boarding schools in England for the older boys to sodomize the younger ones. The way it is described, it was an unspoken tradition in the 19th and fairly far into the 20th century. I've read about this in several biographies (Lewis Carol, C.S. Lewis, and Oliver Sacks to name a few).