BB07 Posted November 1, 2010 Posted November 1, 2010 That's how she found out about our affair - he basically 'let' her find out about it by making it painfully obvious. Yuck......if I were you, I'd keep that in mind, you might be on the receiving end of similar antics at some point in time. I don't think you've said, but did the wife throw him out?
Author maravilla Posted November 1, 2010 Author Posted November 1, 2010 mustmoveon: Maravilla - I've been following your posts & haven't had time to have a "good write" as to your situation, BUT have you discussed children? If he has teenagers, is in his late 40's & has had ill health - does he want another family? Do you? I wouldn't want to shut that door just now. When I was 30 I was positive I didn't want children & I discovered not too much long after (mid to late 30's) that I did. You've never mentioned if you've had that talk. The other thing I think you need to realize that I have learned the very hard way & from friends who have "been there, done that" is that when you marry this man, you are also "marrying" and starting a life with his family, especially his kids. But you will also need to liase with his wifr from time-to-time with matters related to their children....i.e. who is picking the kids up? Grandparents! If you go to high school grad all thoae people will be there. How will you feel? OK? Comfortable? Or......help! What will be your role with respect to his children? I think you envision this fabulous life with him and that may be possible, but his family is coming along for the ride, no matter what you want! Will write more later. You're sounding better I'm happy to note! Thanks, mustmoveon (I copied your post from capris' thread over to mine. ) At this point I don't know if I want kids or not. I used to think not but sometimes now I think yes. MM says he would be good with us having children BUT he had to undergo a medical procedure to save his life and the doctors said he probably wouldn't be able to make any more children (however they also said he probably wouldn't live this long and he is just fine, he'd probably have sexual dysfunction problems and he definitely doesn't , and a bunch of other stuff he said hasn't come true [since beating his disease he's been in great health and is very physically active], so, he's not sure and we'd have to get tests done, or go the adoptive [which would be fine with me if I wanted to have kids] or IVF routes.) But then he makes comments like, 'my friend asked me if I'm going to start another family with you and I told him we've talked about that and you're not sure,' which make me think he's unsure. Then again he's made comments about us making pretty babies and he's good with babies, etc... like so many things, he's kind of all over the map on the kid issue, and it hasn't bothered me since I'm not even sure if I want them. But to be honest when considering the age issue recently I've worried about if we have kids and then he dies, or them having such an old father, or us never having them when really later I want them, etc. So yeah it kind of bothers me. I believe I could be a good step-mom and that my role would be fairly limited due to his kids' ages. I don't know how I'd feel hanging out around his wife at graduation events etc. I guess if we weren't married I wouldn't go and if we were, well then, I'd just have to make it work even though I'm sure that both she and I would be uncomfortable.
Author maravilla Posted November 1, 2010 Author Posted November 1, 2010 Yuck......if I were you, I'd keep that in mind, you might be on the receiving end of similar antics at some point in time. I don't think you've said, but did the wife throw him out? Yeah, it wasn't very admirable. No, she didn't throw him out. At first he was undecided about what to do and felt a lot of guilt and I said he should try to work on the marriage. I was feeling very guilty myself. Well we couldn't stay away from each other and after awhile he said he knows he wants to be with me and was going to get divorced. I said okay and we were back full-on. Then I said I felt guilty doing that right under his wife's nose when he had told her we were done. And that he had to make a choice. So he moved out, telling her he has to think and all of that, because he said he didn't want a nasty divorce.
fooled once Posted November 1, 2010 Posted November 1, 2010 Just a few observations... So, whichwayisup, what are you suggesting I do? As far as I'm concerned his divorce is my business because he's been telling me all along he wants to get divorced and be with me. He told me earlier today he was going to tell me what he talked about with his lawyer. And then he just dodged the issue. That's not cool in my book. If he wants to be with me then he should be sharing this info. with me. That's how I see it anyway. And if he's not ready to get divorced or even tell me what page he's on without me having to pull it out of him, then why should I be with him? Not sure what you're saying here but at least I've figured out that I'm not happy with his half-answers. If he says he wants to be with me and he's getting divorced, he needs to follow through. I don't think that's being too demanding. That's just asking him to live up to his promises. The divorce is NOT your business. PERIOD. His marriage. His divorce. You get no say so in any of it. ALL you should be concerned about is IF he gets one and how long you are willing to wait for him to find the right time to get one. I do not believe for one second he is going to file BEFORE the holidays. He was just there "visiting" for Halloween -- which isn't that "big" of a holiday for a 14 year old and a 16 year old. Decorating for teenagers? Something isn't right there, in MY view. His words mean: I won't do this unless I have a soft place to land, so I need to make sure you'll be around to break my fall. Really, my marriage is really not that awful and I know my wife will take me back if you won't have me, so let me know if you're gonna bail so I can start getting back in her good graces.I need you to let me know ASAP so I can be home by Thanksgiving, Xmas at the latest. I'm sure you love me, but I have a contingency plan in place to make sure I won't end up alone if you change your mind. Maravilla, if this marriage is as dead as he claims, he'd be getting a divorce whether or not you were sure about the relationship. He wouldn't give a damn about your uncertainty because he'd be certain that he didn't want his marriage. He wouldn't be waiting for his wife to file. He would expect your support, but wouldn't need your prodding and encouragement. All of the fun and passion of your affair are about to be tested now that you're going into real life. He's right: if you're not up for the shyte he's about to put you through, get out of the game now. Ditto He isn't going to file tomorrow, he said he is just getting information from the lawyer, he wants to be prepared about how it all works and ask him for his advice on how to tell his wife before serving her. I think he's expecting the lawyer to hold his hand but really I guess there's no great way to do it. I told him it will be ugly either way! He said he doesn't want a long drawn-out divorce. I understand that but delaying filing isn't going to make things easier! He still hasn't told me when he is planning to file. He's told me he is going to ask his lawyer that. And he talked today about steps. The first step was moving out, the second was getting comfortable there and bringing his kids there so they can get used to it. Next he said is moving into a long-term place and then filing for divorce. He said he told his wife he is moving into a place with a six month to a year lease and so she knows that means they are headed for divorce. I told him he's not the greatest communicator- he needs to just tell her straight up instead of making her guess. Yes that would be an action that makes her see he's headed there and actions are important but so is just telling her what's really going on (just like I want him to do with me!) It's so weird, he said he's going to tell his wife that he met with his lawyer and she will be getting papers, and he said 'you know what her question will be... what kind of papers? and I'll say, divorce papers.' I said MM why can't you just tell her you are filing and she'll be getting divorce papers? Why do you have to make her ask you? I see (from what he tells me) that he does the same thing to her as he does to me. He's not being brave enough to just tell each of us what's really on his mind and what's really going on. So he just gives us bits and pieces to keep us guessing. Depending on your state - MOST states in regards to divorce of two parents, the couples has to be LEGALLY separated a year before a divorce will be granted. Thanks, confused4now. I know what you mean and I also get what Pokeman means about snapping one way or the other. I keep feeling that he will file for divorce because he knows he needs to to be with me. I worry about pressuring him into it, but, that is just the situation - he either needs to be all in or all out. *Needs to be with you? What does that mean??? OH wait - that in order to be with you, he needs to file instead of fence sitting? I do sometimes get worried that he's taking me for a ride but I also feel, based on knowing him, ** Knowing him? You have known him for 7 months, right? Do you think you KNOW him better than his wife? Heck, she probably has NO idea what he is up to. But you really think you KNOW him because you have been with him 7 months -- and in that 7 months, he has lived at HOME for the majority of the time, he talks to you on the phone and spends a few hours here and there with you. That isn't KNOWING someone, hell, that is barely DATING someone. Keep reading ... many MM "claim" they want to be with their mistress and many even "move out" ... but not that many actually FOLLOW THROUGH. bb07, I don't know if it makes a difference in terms of what you're saying, but, his wife does know about our affair. She doesn't know he is continuing to see me. I would think she would wonder or assume but he says he doesn't say one way or the other and she doesn't ask. Now in the past he has told me she's asked and he's denied so as not to make the divorce ugly and not to hurt her. *Actually, the wife doesn't know of the affair. She did know about you at one time, but he minimized you and told her he doesn't talk to you/see you anymore. So honestly, you can't say she knows about you when he has lied to her and said he isn't. What he is doing is called gas-lighting her. It is a cowardly and ugly thing to do. I could see her getting really mad once she finds out we've been together this whole time. Or just assumes that if he tells her or she finds out that we're together now. He's trying to avoid this but I don't see how it's possible to avoid it. I don't know whether this would make him scamper back home... he left after she found out about our affair, and she still wants to be with him. I think he is just really afraid of hurting her but that's rather inevitable and he's obviously hurting her slowly instead of all at once! *Getting mad she will. She will be furious she has been lied to. She will be furious that he continued to betray her. She will then possibly make the divorce even UGLIER than it could be. Should could easily institute No overnights with a person of the opposite sex clause in the divorce papers. She could let the kids know that daddy was not only dishonest about things, he had a girl on the side and trust me, his kids won't enjoy hearing it. Eventually, the kids will figure it out that you two were together before the divorce - either by hearing you two talk, seeing pictures, etc. The only way to ensure that doesn't happen is to make sure no pictures exist of your affair, make sure there is NO discussion of past dates, trips, etc. I agree it's not fair to drag me down his road of uncertainty, especially pretending all the while he's certain (which I'm sure he is, when he's talking to me). He is a cake eater. He won't file unless he knows FOR SURE you will wait. He wants a soft place to land; he wants everything HIS way. Wha-- he's fighting for custody-- what?? He's breaking up the marriage with his wife and he's going to try to take her kid away? What the heck??? What did the wife do to deserve this? From everything the OP has said she's a decent person, she helped him through a serious illness. Where did this custody thing come from? He hasn't even decided when he's going to file for divorce! Ditto. And I just saw where you said he wants joint legal custody. That is normal in divorce. He will still pay child support - possibly through college (depending on her lawyer and your state). She will possibly get alimony and you can be sure she will get 1/2 his assets, maybe more. I think it is perposterious for a lawyer to tell him he can't file until the house rents. Who said she wants to leave that house? He could be made to continue to pay the house payments. I got divorced. I had a young son. I kept the house (but paid for it on my own). I got sole custody. My ex was not included in any decisions regarding our son. He wanted alimony but I refused. I decided on a Sunday I wanted out, called a lawyer on Monday, had an appointment on Wednesday (and retained her) and told my ex that night. He moved out (FINALLY!) 3 months later. Divorce was final 14 months later (mandatory 1 year legal separation). I never regretted it, I never waivered, I never changed my decision. I sold my house 3 years later. I couldn't close our JOINT account unless he agreed to it (and he did). If my ex ever thought I was hiding money (which I wasn't), he could have taken 1/2 of that. I am shocked at the things the lawyer allegedly advised him of - ESPECIALLY telling him to keep his mistress. I am telling you - all hell will break loose when she finds out that he has been lying to her. Especially if she wants to give the marriage another chance. If he is waffling NOW, wait til you see how he waffles when she begs him to go to marriage counseling, begs him to not break up the family, etc. I personally don't believe his son says what the MM says he does. I find it sad that the MM is the one talking to his kid about a divorce, yet when a BS does it, they are called bitter, putting the kids in the middle, etc. Yes, at 14 a court will ask a kid his view on where he wants to live, but as long as there isn't abuse or anything, he won't get to pick where he lives NOR will a judge more than likely split up the siblings. It has been done - in fact, my H had an arrangement when he split with his ex. His daughter was 3 and she stayed with the wife and his son who was 11 stayed with my H. BUT they also lived 3 miles apart and basically had 50/50 parenting. When the ex wife moved 10 miles away, my stepson chose to stay with his dad most week nights because of school and his mom's inability to get him to school on time. They had a very easy co-parenting relationship for a couple years, until hell broke loose because she wanted to move BOTH kids several states away after she met a guy My H had his divorce agreement amended that neither could move the kids more than 20 miles away from xx town unless both parties agreed and the court okayed it. In your shoes, I would back off and let him sort this out. I am not saying LEAVE him; but you are overly involved and over analyzing every movement, every word and every eye blink. Get your OWN interests and go out with friends and do things without him. It isn't to punish him, it is to give you some space and to allow you to not get so caught up in everything. Do I think it will work long term for you two? No. He is waffling too much and his crazy if he thinks the HOLIDAYS is the best time to serve divorce papers. That to me says he has little regard for anyone - especially his children. And if he can't stay away on Halloween, what in his mind makes him think he will stay away for Thanksgiving and Christmas?
fooled once Posted November 1, 2010 Posted November 1, 2010 Yeah, this is a new complication that I hadn't realized before. He had asked me if I could handle the fact that he has kids, and I honestly told him that while I have no experience in that regard, I love him and hence I will love his kids and I understand that they come first and he needs to spend a lot of time with them and make them his top priority. I meant and still mean all of those things. (And, just to be clear, I don't mean I don't want to hang out with him and his kids as a third wheel. I meant that I don't want to be introduced to his kids or around his kids until he is clear with them that he is getting a divorce and he is done with their mother for good. He has made strange comments about watching a movie or going out to eat with his son and I said, no way, that will just confuse the poor kid more. If his mother doesn't know the marriage is over, and if he doesn't know that you are getting divorced rather than just leaving for awhile which is what they told the kids, then I don't want to be around him. It's not fair to him, and he'll likely hate me from the start, or God forbid we form a bond and then MM decides to go home... it just looks like a walking time-bomb to involve the kids in our relationship before he's divorced. After he's divorced, or after it is very clear to everyone involved that divorce is imminent and he's with me, then, I would love to get to know his kids). But what I didn't understand about the kid issue was that his relationship with his kids hasn't been so great, and so this separation is just complicating things further (some ways good, some ways bad), which makes it very hard for us, as you point out. You are so right when you say "His children will either run to him since he hasn't been around much, or they will reject his attempts to bond again - because he hasn't been around much." It seems to me that his son is taking the first path and his daughter is taking the second path. I don't mind supporting him through this if he is actually in the process of divorcing, but I'm just realizing that he's not going to be okay about getting divorced until he feels more sure about where he stands with his kids. I am a step parent and please please --- just because you love him does NOT mean you will love his kids. PLEASE don't think that way because when/if you don't - you will beat yourself up. You don't have to love his kids to be a step parent - you have to treat them decently and wish the best for them in life. You don't get to make decisions for them and you don't get to discipline them. It is one of the most ungrateful things; but it is what it is. I have been a stepmom for 13 years (almost) and let me tell you - it isn't The Brady Bunch. It is hard, it is hard and it is HARD. Step parenting is one of the leading causes of divorce in 2nd marriages. All the work and no glory. And PLEASE do NOT allow him to introduce you until he is DIVORCED. Do not leave things at his house they could find (clothes, make up, etc). If the find out he has been lying to them too -- in addition to his wife -- it will only make things worse. From what I just read, he hasn't been very involved and they will naturally assume it is because of you. You do not need that at all. I think it is very strange that you said he won't really be okay about getting a divorce until he knows where he stands with his kids? Very weird!!
2sunny Posted November 1, 2010 Posted November 1, 2010 Today we looked at the house he's interested in renting, which I heard of through a friend, and he just emailed my friend and said he's interested and asked about the lease terms and which appliances stay. That's some sort of progress, I guess. ahahaha, until he signs the lease and pays his rent - it means absolutely nothing. stop prompting him. IF he intends to do this thing - he will. lots of OW go "apartment hunting" with the MM. they move when THEY want to move - not necessarily because you are leading him around by the nose. now he just needs to come up with more excuses why he is going to stall for more time while he makes you wait. hmmmm, we've got the holidays coming up... i see that as his next stall tactic.
Author maravilla Posted November 2, 2010 Author Posted November 2, 2010 Just a few observations... The divorce is NOT your business. PERIOD. His marriage. His divorce. You get no say so in any of it. ALL you should be concerned about is IF he gets one and how long you are willing to wait for him to find the right time to get one. I do not believe for one second he is going to file BEFORE the holidays. He was just there "visiting" for Halloween -- which isn't that "big" of a holiday for a 14 year old and a 16 year old. Decorating for teenagers? Something isn't right there, in MY view. Ditto Depending on your state - MOST states in regards to divorce of two parents, the couples has to be LEGALLY separated a year before a divorce will be granted. Keep reading ... many MM "claim" they want to be with their mistress and many even "move out" ... but not that many actually FOLLOW THROUGH. He is a cake eater. He won't file unless he knows FOR SURE you will wait. He wants a soft place to land; he wants everything HIS way. Ditto. And I just saw where you said he wants joint legal custody. That is normal in divorce. He will still pay child support - possibly through college (depending on her lawyer and your state). She will possibly get alimony and you can be sure she will get 1/2 his assets, maybe more. I think it is perposterious for a lawyer to tell him he can't file until the house rents. Who said she wants to leave that house? He could be made to continue to pay the house payments. I got divorced. I had a young son. I kept the house (but paid for it on my own). I got sole custody. My ex was not included in any decisions regarding our son. He wanted alimony but I refused. I decided on a Sunday I wanted out, called a lawyer on Monday, had an appointment on Wednesday (and retained her) and told my ex that night. He moved out (FINALLY!) 3 months later. Divorce was final 14 months later (mandatory 1 year legal separation). I never regretted it, I never waivered, I never changed my decision. I sold my house 3 years later. I couldn't close our JOINT account unless he agreed to it (and he did). If my ex ever thought I was hiding money (which I wasn't), he could have taken 1/2 of that. I am shocked at the things the lawyer allegedly advised him of - ESPECIALLY telling him to keep his mistress. I am telling you - all hell will break loose when she finds out that he has been lying to her. Especially if she wants to give the marriage another chance. If he is waffling NOW, wait til you see how he waffles when she begs him to go to marriage counseling, begs him to not break up the family, etc. I personally don't believe his son says what the MM says he does. I find it sad that the MM is the one talking to his kid about a divorce, yet when a BS does it, they are called bitter, putting the kids in the middle, etc. Yes, at 14 a court will ask a kid his view on where he wants to live, but as long as there isn't abuse or anything, he won't get to pick where he lives NOR will a judge more than likely split up the siblings. It has been done - in fact, my H had an arrangement when he split with his ex. His daughter was 3 and she stayed with the wife and his son who was 11 stayed with my H. BUT they also lived 3 miles apart and basically had 50/50 parenting. When the ex wife moved 10 miles away, my stepson chose to stay with his dad most week nights because of school and his mom's inability to get him to school on time. They had a very easy co-parenting relationship for a couple years, until hell broke loose because she wanted to move BOTH kids several states away after she met a guy My H had his divorce agreement amended that neither could move the kids more than 20 miles away from xx town unless both parties agreed and the court okayed it. In your shoes, I would back off and let him sort this out. I am not saying LEAVE him; but you are overly involved and over analyzing every movement, every word and every eye blink. Get your OWN interests and go out with friends and do things without him. It isn't to punish him, it is to give you some space and to allow you to not get so caught up in everything. Do I think it will work long term for you two? No. He is waffling too much and his crazy if he thinks the HOLIDAYS is the best time to serve divorce papers. That to me says he has little regard for anyone - especially his children. And if he can't stay away on Halloween, what in his mind makes him think he will stay away for Thanksgiving and Christmas? Thanks for all the good points fooledonce. I just want to clarify two things. First, I didn't mean his lawyer told him he can't get divorced until he rents out their house. He fully intends for his wife and kids to stay in the house until his kids go to college. I meant that his lawyer told him not to file until he himself has signed a lease agreement on the house he wants to rent (to live in himself). Second, in our state there is no mandatory separation requirement before a divorce is granted. I have friends who were granted a divorced in 19 days! (They had no kids and few joint assets, and it was uncontested/mutual, so it was much easier than most, but, just sayin', no separation period required.) I agree with you that he is cake-eating. I agree it is wrong of him to put his son in the middle of this. My heart honestly breaks for his son. I know I'm part of the reason but it still makes me really sad. I don't think he'd let me back off, he pretty much wants me full-time, all the time. And I'm tired of it. If I arrange something with a friend, he wants to come with, and I have to say, this friend doesn't know about you because you're married. Then I feel stupid for doing something I don't want to share with my friends. Then he says he and his friend will just come to wherever we are and pretend to accidentally bump into us. That starts to get old, and obvious! Or he pouts and asks me to arrange it for a different night when he has his son (which always fluctuates so it's impossible to plan around). I'm just tired of it. I don't know why I put up with it. It's all about him, and about me catering to his every whim and need for some reason. I know he says he would be okay with me having my own life without him, but in reality it bothers him. He wants us to be a couple but doesn't want to do what's necessary to get us there. So I just want to be single until he gets divorced. As you point out, that probably won't happen if I'm not there for him showing him I'm here 100%. I also wanted to say that even if I don't ask him about stuff, he tells me anyway. He tells me every little detail about his life except for the things he doesn't think I'll like, and then I notice, because I know him well, and he'll come out with it after I ask. For instance he'll say he and his son had good time doing this and this and he talked to his son about this and this and then his wife ruined everything by saying this and this. So obviously he saw his wife somewhere in there but he had been making it sound like he was at his place the whole time. I don't say anything. Then he'll say he's full from breakfast but he doesn't tell me where he ate, which he likes to do (he always says 'I took my son here, and he liked it, but I didn't,' or something along those lines), and so it'll be bugging me and I'll ask, 'where did you guys eat breakfast?' And he'll say, 'I had scrambled eggs, bacon, and cheese, which my daughter made,' which will clue me in that he had breakfast at home when he dropped his son off. While I agree I don't need or even want to know every detail of his divorce (which he tells me about voluntarily also; he'll tell me the second he calls his lawyer on the phone, or everything his lawyer says, or I guess everything that he thinks I would like to hear anyway), I do think I need to know how much time he spends with his wife at the house because to me it shows me based on his actions whether he's really ready to leave or whether he's still hanging out at home and blowing smoke about actually being able to cut those ties. Thanks for the words of wisdom. I get what you're saying.
BB07 Posted November 2, 2010 Posted November 2, 2010 Marvilla........the more you tell us, the more I'm getting a really bad feeling about this guy. 7 months really isn't enough time to get to know someone and well affair circumstance doesn't give you the same info as if you were dating someone. I'm afraid that the more you get to know this guy (if you see him for what he really is) the less you are going to like him. I know you have to find your own way in this, but your intuition is talking to you.
GreenEyedLady Posted November 2, 2010 Posted November 2, 2010 I agree with you that he is cake-eating. If I arrange something with a friend, he wants to come with, and I have to say, this friend doesn't know about you because you're married. Then I feel stupid for doing something I don't want to share with my friends. I actually think that YOU are the one who is cake-eating. You are very obviously not into your MM that much or your post WOULD NOT read the way you wrote it. Please step away from the MM. Don't destroy a M or family for absolutely nothing. GEL
Author maravilla Posted November 2, 2010 Author Posted November 2, 2010 I am a step parent and please please --- just because you love him does NOT mean you will love his kids. PLEASE don't think that way because when/if you don't - you will beat yourself up. You don't have to love his kids to be a step parent - you have to treat them decently and wish the best for them in life. You don't get to make decisions for them and you don't get to discipline them. It is one of the most ungrateful things; but it is what it is. I have been a stepmom for 13 years (almost) and let me tell you - it isn't The Brady Bunch. It is hard, it is hard and it is HARD. Step parenting is one of the leading causes of divorce in 2nd marriages. All the work and no glory. And PLEASE do NOT allow him to introduce you until he is DIVORCED. Do not leave things at his house they could find (clothes, make up, etc). If the find out he has been lying to them too -- in addition to his wife -- it will only make things worse. From what I just read, he hasn't been very involved and they will naturally assume it is because of you. You do not need that at all. I think it is very strange that you said he won't really be okay about getting a divorce until he knows where he stands with his kids? Very weird!! Yeah, I have no idea how it would be to be a step-parent but I would leave that up to him, whatever he thinks is best for them. I don't assume they would love me or accept me and I wouldn't try to discipline them. Of course I wouldn't know until I'm there so thanks for sharing what it's like. I won't let him introduce me to them until he's divorced. I think the strange thing is that he hasn't had this relationship with them, which I don't think is just because of me/ the affair but has been like this for quite awhile, and now that he is separated he thinks it will help him have a better relationship with his kids, and he does see his son a lot more and talk to his son more. But he wants to be closer to them and have them be okay with him getting divorced and not be seen as the bad guy who breaks their hearts. It all seems very unrealistic to me. I'm not a parent but it seems like a backwards way to do things. I meant to say in my last response that we've been involved in an affair for seven months but I've known him for the past couple years. But I get what you mean about not knowing him in any other capacity.
Author maravilla Posted November 2, 2010 Author Posted November 2, 2010 I actually think that YOU are the one who is cake-eating. You are very obviously not into your MM that much or your post WOULD NOT read the way you wrote it. Please step away from the MM. Don't destroy a M or family for absolutely nothing. GEL Because I agree that he's cake-eating and don't like that he always needs to be near me, I'm not into him? I think not. If he got divorced I would be with him in a second. The problem is, he is wavering and dragging his feet and it is making me see him differently. I think most of our issues come from him staying married while telling me he wants divorced. Anything else, I could work through. So I don't agree with you but thanks for your perspective.
2sunny Posted November 2, 2010 Posted November 2, 2010 I actually think that YOU are the one who is cake-eating. You are very obviously not into your MM that much or your post WOULD NOT read the way you wrote it. Please step away from the MM. Don't destroy a M or family for absolutely nothing. GEL tell me how OP is the cake eater when she hears empty words and little to no action to back up his empty words? she can't possibly be the cake eater when she doesn't get much out of this situation except lies from her MM. she can't even have him participate in her social life, how is that being a cake eater?
Author maravilla Posted November 2, 2010 Author Posted November 2, 2010 ahahaha, until he signs the lease and pays his rent - it means absolutely nothing. stop prompting him. IF he intends to do this thing - he will. lots of OW go "apartment hunting" with the MM. they move when THEY want to move - not necessarily because you are leading him around by the nose. now he just needs to come up with more excuses why he is going to stall for more time while he makes you wait. hmmmm, we've got the holidays coming up... i see that as his next stall tactic. I like your advice and I want to take it. To just step away and see what he does on his own. Maybe not cut him out of my life completely but just live my life for me and see if he wants to get on board or if he goes back home. I really need to separate myself from his mess but it's hard to do. I'm getting there, really I am!!
fooled once Posted November 2, 2010 Posted November 2, 2010 He has always said that his wife is a great mother. She is dedicated to the kids and was always dedicated to him. She did help him through his illness. When I ask what is wrong between her and the son he says that she is very naggy and controlling and won't ever let up on him, or his son, and that she and the son have always had issues. She and the daughter have always gotten along and still do. I think he is just not compatible with his wife and he avoided the issues while the kids were little and now he is afraid to death of being alone with her while the kids are doing their thing. He hates being around her, he says. When I ask what is so bad he says she's controlling and OCD and stubborn and everything always has to be her way and she can never be wrong. He also says she isn't intelligent and he can't talk to her about things because she doesn't understand. I'm not trying to rip on her, just give his perspective as best I can. This is definitely not a situation of a bad mother or even a bad wife. I've tried to understand why he is so unhappy with her (selfishly, because I wonder if he will just stop being happy with me!) and I think they are just incompatible. He says she used to have a lot of fun and now she can never let loose and relax, she is always cleaning or doing something or nagging. She is no longer able to enjoy sex after menopause. Well I know sex isn't everything, but he and I have sexual drives and desires that match each other and he and she do not. (I'm not saying this, or any of this, is a good reason to cheat, just trying to explain the situation). He says they don't share the same interests and that she is not interested in any of his interests and she doesn't listen to him when he talks. He says he thinks she likes being 'Mrs. MM' a lot better than she likes being his wife, and that there is a difference. He feels resentful of her because she likes their lifestyle and spends a lot of 'his' money. I honestly don't like this attitude because I think she has obviously helped him be able to make all that money and she has supported him. So I don't like when he says that but what I get from it is that she has been happy being his wife and he hasn't been happy being her husband but he just coasted along thinking, I've got a beautiful wife (she is beautiful), a beautiful family, a good business, I'm supposed to be happy, so I'm telling myself I'm happy. You know, from everything he says I think she has been a very good wife and mother and that if anything maybe she should have been a little more affectionate with him and into him more than just the family aspect of things. To me it doesn't look like there's anything unfixable, except maybe his affair, or anything they can't work on, and that's why I start to feel guilty and bad (it would make me feel better if she was some monster or a bad mother). But he says he just doesn't have it for her anymore and he's not happy and it's never going to be able to come back, especially not after his affair and after what he knows he and I have together. My last thoughts... this woman has raised 2 children with very little help from his (his own admission). She took care of him through a life threatening illness which could have severely affected his quality and quantity of life. She has gone through menopause (how old is HE??). As someone who has gone down that road, it isn't easy and it affects everyone differently. Hot flashes, while they don't sound "THAT" bad, can be a real b*tch. Menopause also often brings depression, fatigue and can really "dry" a woman out (as in vaginal dryness). So he isn't getting all the sex he wants because she has been busy raising 2 kids, has taken care of him through a health crisis (which can be a HUGE stressor) and is dealing with menopause....while he has...gone out and had an affair because, she isn't smart enough NOW for him (where as she has been for 16 years or so), she isn't as into sex as she was before and she is exhausted from raising two kids. He sounds like quite a prize. Maybe instead of raising the kids and taking care of him, she should have gone out and gotten some on the side since he wasn't as into sex during his medical issue? I am not trying to be callous or mean...just trying to point out how incredibly SELFISH he sounds. be careful...as soon as you aren't meeting all his needs, he may trade you in for someone else.
MorningCoffee Posted November 2, 2010 Posted November 2, 2010 Marvilla........the more you tell us, the more I'm getting a really bad feeling about this guy. I am getting the same feeling as BB07. I agree with those suggesting you make some space, look out for yourself, and let him sort himself out.
Author maravilla Posted November 2, 2010 Author Posted November 2, 2010 tell me how OP is the cake eater when she hears empty words and little to no action to back up his empty words? she can't possibly be the cake eater when she doesn't get much out of this situation except lies from her MM. she can't even have him participate in her social life, how is that being a cake eater? Thanks for the backup. I guess everyone is entitled to their opinion but I feel that I have given MM everything and he is not in the position to give me everything but instead he just tells me he is giving me a lot and wants to give me everything. While he has taken some action and shown me in certain ways, like spending time with me, that he loves me and wants to be with me, I'm starting to feel like none of that matters if he doesn't actually want to get divorced.
Author maravilla Posted November 2, 2010 Author Posted November 2, 2010 Marvilla........the more you tell us, the more I'm getting a really bad feeling about this guy. 7 months really isn't enough time to get to know someone and well affair circumstance doesn't give you the same info as if you were dating someone. I'm afraid that the more you get to know this guy (if you see him for what he really is) the less you are going to like him. I know you have to find your own way in this, but your intuition is talking to you. This is what I was trying to explain to greeneyedlady. I was madly in love with him and I still have these crazy deep feelings for him but his actions are making me question everything. So if I'm not as into him as I was before, I feel it's his own fault, and that it could still be rectified by him doing the things he tells me he wants to do. I really don't think it should be this hard to follow through with the love he tells me he has for me.
2sunny Posted November 2, 2010 Posted November 2, 2010 I like your advice and I want to take it. To just step away and see what he does on his own. Maybe not cut him out of my life completely but just live my life for me and see if he wants to get on board or if he goes back home. I really need to separate myself from his mess but it's hard to do. I'm getting there, really I am!! it's not so hard when you keep your best interest in mind. you deserve more and won't find an available man as long as you stay so focused on what he is or isn't doing. start doing for yourself. start living. get busy. he'll start to notice and either GET divorcED in a big hurry = or he'll try to spend so much energy making sure you remain in your same position (his OW). a supportive and loving man would make things happen pronto IF he intends to be with you. in the meantime - a healthy man would never ask you to stop living life in the meantime... only a selfish man would require that of you. he will show you what his agenda is when you begin to move forward for YOUR best interest. either way - you either get busy living or you get busy dying... what's it gonna be for YOU?
BB07 Posted November 2, 2010 Posted November 2, 2010 Thanks for the backup. I guess everyone is entitled to their opinion but I feel that I have given MM everything and he is not in the position to give me everything but instead he just tells me he is giving me a lot and wants to give me everything. While he has taken some action and shown me in certain ways, like spending time with me, that he loves me and wants to be with me, I'm starting to feel like none of that matters if he doesn't actually want to get divorced. I'm afraid he is giving you "just enough" to keep you hanging in and when he does give you something it's because you are voicing your unhappiness. I hope I'm wrong.
GreenEyedLady Posted November 2, 2010 Posted November 2, 2010 tell me how OP is the cake eater when she hears empty words and little to no action to back up his empty words? she can't possibly be the cake eater when she doesn't get much out of this situation except lies from her MM. she can't even have him participate in her social life, how is that being a cake eater? Why in the world can't she have him participate in her life? She has chosen to be the OW. She might as well own up to it instead of pretending. How is that living authentically? Or better? It's a lie. And she is a cake-eater because she wants him to dramatically change his life when she still wants her single life too. And honestly, when an OW loves her MM, you see it in their posts. It's not there. And him going through a divorce and a R transitioning, they won't make it. There's not enough understanding or love or forgiveness. And I honestly don't see a reason to completely devastate everyone for something that you can tell won't last. GEL
Author maravilla Posted November 2, 2010 Author Posted November 2, 2010 My last thoughts... this woman has raised 2 children with very little help from his (his own admission). She took care of him through a life threatening illness which could have severely affected his quality and quantity of life. She has gone through menopause (how old is HE??). As someone who has gone down that road, it isn't easy and it affects everyone differently. Hot flashes, while they don't sound "THAT" bad, can be a real b*tch. Menopause also often brings depression, fatigue and can really "dry" a woman out (as in vaginal dryness). So he isn't getting all the sex he wants because she has been busy raising 2 kids, has taken care of him through a health crisis (which can be a HUGE stressor) and is dealing with menopause....while he has...gone out and had an affair because, she isn't smart enough NOW for him (where as she has been for 16 years or so), she isn't as into sex as she was before and she is exhausted from raising two kids. He sounds like quite a prize. Maybe instead of raising the kids and taking care of him, she should have gone out and gotten some on the side since he wasn't as into sex during his medical issue? I am not trying to be callous or mean...just trying to point out how incredibly SELFISH he sounds. be careful...as soon as you aren't meeting all his needs, he may trade you in for someone else. Thanks for your thoughts. I get what you're saying and it's hard to reconcile it with my love for him. I am afraid of becoming her one day. She has given him everything, like I've been giving him, and, you're right, seven months versus all those years. He was clearly ready to leave but I'm not sure why. Maybe it doesn't matter but I fear the same could happen with me. To answer your question, he's almost 50. I think she's a year or two older than him.
fooled once Posted November 2, 2010 Posted November 2, 2010 I like your advice and I want to take it. To just step away and see what he does on his own. Maybe not cut him out of my life completely but just live my life for me and see if he wants to get on board or if he goes back home. I really need to separate myself from his mess but it's hard to do. I'm getting there, really I am!! Okay, these are my last thoughts :laugh: Great advice from 2sunny and yes, I think you should NOT prompt him to do things and wait and see what HE decides to do. You should not be his mommy. And as weird as this sounds, IF the divorce makes him CLOSER to his kids than he is when he is married and living in the family home - GOOD. Those kids deserve to have an active father in their life - no matter where he lives. Shame on him for NOT being an active parent. I am glad you are not taking what I am saying in a negative way. LOTS to think about and most importantly - don't forget who YOU are. Don't forget YOUR needs and desires. Don't make it all about him and do NOT make HIM your life. I get what you are saying about going out with your friends, but until HE doesn't have a wife, he doesn't get to tell you who and what you can do
GreenEyedLady Posted November 2, 2010 Posted November 2, 2010 Because I agree that he's cake-eating and don't like that he always needs to be near me, I'm not into him? I think not. If he got divorced I would be with him in a second. The problem is, he is wavering and dragging his feet and it is making me see him differently. I think most of our issues come from him staying married while telling me he wants divorced. Anything else, I could work through. So I don't agree with you but thanks for your perspective. OP: Do you really understand the magnitude of what you're in right now? You say you love him, but it doesn't come across in your posts. And it takes work and love and understanding and forgiveness to make it through a partner's divorce and transitioning your R. I don't see that in your posts. You even say that he is making you see him differently. So why destroy what's left of his M? If he got divorced, I think you probably would be with him. But it doesn't sound like it's going to last. You already resent him and he's still technically someone else's. And maybe that's why he's dragging his feet. Maybe he notices YOU are the one making plans and not wanting him to meet your friends. HE COULD MEET YOUR FRIENDS, YOU KNOW. I would bet you seriously hurt his feelings by not wanting to introduce him. Take my words for what they're worth. GEL
Author maravilla Posted November 2, 2010 Author Posted November 2, 2010 Why in the world can't she have him participate in her life? She has chosen to be the OW. She might as well own up to it instead of pretending. How is that living authentically? Or better? It's a lie. And she is a cake-eater because she wants him to dramatically change his life when she still wants her single life too. And honestly, when an OW loves her MM, you see it in their posts. It's not there. And him going through a divorce and a R transitioning, they won't make it. There's not enough understanding or love or forgiveness. And I honestly don't see a reason to completely devastate everyone for something that you can tell won't last. GEL No, I don't want to live my single life. I want to be with him. I'm not going to introduce him to the world when he isn't introducing me to his world. To me that's a double standard. I haven't dated and don't want to date anyone else. I just want to go have a cup of coffee or a glass of wine with a friend I haven't seen in ages because she doesn't know about MM. And we are living a lie all around because we are still in the affair. An affair is a lie. He is living a lie, I am living a lie. I don't like it and I want it to change and that's my struggle and why I started posting here about it. That's like saying I should tell my co-workers I'm dating a married man. Um no. Until we can come out as a public couple I'm not telling anyone else that I haven't already told, which is my very close friends and family, and I know he's not going to tell anyone else than he's already told. Again, that would be a double standard. What am I supposed to forgive? That he tells me he wants to get a divorce but won't? That he's giving me only part of the picture? I don't understand your posts but thanks for trying to help I guess. You have me all wrong if you think I want to go be single AND still be with MM. I only want to be single if MM doesn't truly want to be with me, which means getting a divorce. He has to pick, me or his marriage. I'm not sorry I'm not all oozing butterflies and 'forgiveness' for a man that is still keeping me his dirty little secret despite telling me he loves me and wants to be in a real relationship with me. For a man that is lying to his wife about me and then you think it is a lie for me not to tell the whole world I'm with him? That's just not me and I don't think it means I don't love him. I think it means I'm protecting myself and trying to think with my head instead of my heart. I do think I need to step away, but not because I don't love him. Because I love him too much and it is making me do things I don't agree with and basically taking away from the life I want to live. Which is real love, which I guess isn't this, from him to me. Thanks for the help.
2sunny Posted November 2, 2010 Posted November 2, 2010 Thanks for the backup. I guess everyone is entitled to their opinion but I feel that I have given MM everything and he is not in the position to give me everything but instead he just tells me he is giving me a lot and wants to give me everything. While he has taken some action and shown me in certain ways, like spending time with me, that he loves me and wants to be with me, I'm starting to feel like none of that matters if he doesn't actually want to get divorced. indeed. his actions of being with his family on Halloween show point blank that you can expect to spend holidays on your own. even IF he says his daughter is making him pancakes for breakfast... why does he need to do things that way? why wouldn't HE be making an effort for his kids IF he's supposed to be affirming the relationship with the kids? he should be taking THEM out for a meal. is he that selfish and self centered that HE participates IF they are making it easy for him? i'd bet money he eats each meal at the house with his wife. don't think he doesn't. where is his effort and energy? hmmm, looks like it's still at his home - with his family unit. he's all talk. i bet his W doesn't have a clue. he's spending time and energy keeping the homefront from suspecting what he's actually up to. as long as you are his secret - expect that he's not intending to divorce at all. he hasn't told his W because he's trying to make things work with her. that's why he continues to participate as a family.
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