Separated MMs

[siuys]

Maravilla, I feel for you. A lot of fear and uncertainty. I totally understand. The more I read your posts, the more I think you can really benefit from the book I recommended.

 

It's early days since he moved out so yeah, a rough ride ahead. My MM has to move again soon as his lease has expired. I don't know where he will move to. He did mention he may move home and sleep on a mattress. As you can imagine I don't feel comfortable about that, but I figured, if he gets back with his W, well, then, what can I do about it? At least it will be final for me.

 

It's really hard this roller coaster ride. I used to feel physically sick sometimes from the emotional turmoil. Now it's better, but i HAVE to take it day by day as he's got too much baggage, and until he clears his head, it won't be a good R anyway.

 

Sometimes I feel like confronting him, asking him where all this is going but I think I know the answer. I know his intentions, but all too often he's too messed up to think straight. I try to increase the distance when he is not well, not because I'm a fair weather girl, but because I don't want to be dragged down, and I don't want him to associate me too much with the separation/divorce thing. The D thing is not even on my radar. I'm just trying to survive the week! sigh...

[serah]

maravilla, please be careful. I was in a similar situation and too naive/foolish to know better. I became involved with MM after he was separated. He was staying in a short-term sort of apartment for six months, and planned to move to a more permanent place when his lease expired on the first of the year. He had "talked to a lawyer", but nothing was filed. Despite everything he said about wanting to be with me more than anything (I trusted him completely), two days before his lease expired, he decided to go home. I was completely blindsided. As I found out when I later discovered this site, my story is all too common. Please don't let this happen to you.

[maravilla]

I hope I don't come off as mean or negative, but I feel like there's a very real possibility that this man will return to his family after the holidays. He has a short-term lease and has already mentioned going home if the two of you don't work out; for a man that's sure about his decision, he sure has set this situation up so that he has an "out" clause in this relationship. Even the mere mention of returning to his wife should be a red flag for you, as his only concern is that he doesn't end up alone.

 

You love him, but don't be a fool for love and don't dismiss your fears. You're thinking of these things for a reason, so trust your gut and don't wear your heart on your sleeve until you see that this man is making moves on his own.

 

Thanks, Carrot, I don't think you come off as mean and negative. You're just stating things I already feel deep down. I do sense that he has an out clause and that seems really strange to me if he is really sure he wants to be with me. Sometimes I think he's not sure I want to be with him because of all my doubts and questioning. Do you think that could be it? That he keeps his wife as a back-up plan in case I leave him? Because he's hinted at that and really so much as said that before. Still I think he should decide and act no matter what the outcome.

[maravilla]

Maravilla, I feel for you. A lot of fear and uncertainty. I totally understand. The more I read your posts, the more I think you can really benefit from the book I recommended.

 

It's early days since he moved out so yeah, a rough ride ahead. My MM has to move again soon as his lease has expired. I don't know where he will move to. He did mention he may move home and sleep on a mattress. As you can imagine I don't feel comfortable about that, but I figured, if he gets back with his W, well, then, what can I do about it? At least it will be final for me.

 

It's really hard this roller coaster ride. I used to feel physically sick sometimes from the emotional turmoil. Now it's better, but i HAVE to take it day by day as he's got too much baggage, and until he clears his head, it won't be a good R anyway.

 

Sometimes I feel like confronting him, asking him where all this is going but I think I know the answer. I know his intentions, but all too often he's too messed up to think straight. I try to increase the distance when he is not well, not because I'm a fair weather girl, but because I don't want to be dragged down, and I don't want him to associate me too much with the separation/divorce thing. The D thing is not even on my radar. I'm just trying to survive the week! sigh...

 

A mattress at home? Are you serious? Does he not have money or why would he do this if not to go back home?

 

I can't even fathom being in that situation. I feel for you.

 

I agree with you that I feel like confronting MM, and I do confront him and ask him, for sure, but his intentions are to be with me. So the conversation goes nowhere. Really he just needs to show me that. My problem is that I'm getting tired of all the talking and intentions. I know it's only been a month but I keep going back to what confused4now said. If he wanted it as bad as he keeps telling me he wants it (he always insists he wants to be with me and he knows that means getting divorced!), then he would have filed already. So how long is this going to drag out? Call me impatient but I'm getting sick of it already!

[maravilla]

maravilla, please be careful. I was in a similar situation and too naive/foolish to know better. I became involved with MM after he was separated. He was staying in a short-term sort of apartment for six months, and planned to move to a more permanent place when his lease expired on the first of the year. He had "talked to a lawyer", but nothing was filed. Despite everything he said about wanting to be with me more than anything (I trusted him completely), two days before his lease expired, he decided to go home. I was completely blindsided. As I found out when I later discovered this site, my story is all too common. Please don't let this happen to you.

 

Oh my goodness. I don't understand why they do this? To have already been separated and moved out when he met you, only to make you those promises and just return home like that? Why? My mind is boggled!

[maravilla]

My head is spinning. I'm more confused than ever.

 

I met MM for drinks earlier because he was going to pick up his son after that and take him to the place he's staying. Earlier he had told me via text message that he had talked to his divorce lawyer on the phone and had a meeting with him on Friday and would tell me about it later. So when I saw him, I didn't bring it up, but pretty soon after I arrived he said that his lawyer said that at age 14 his son would be able to choose where he lived and which parent he stayed with when, and that before that, the Court would hear from him and take his wishes into consideration (he is almost 14). I felt confused because earlier MM had told me he had already talked to his lawyer about child custody (after I had asked him if he had!) and the lawyer had said that three nights a week established shared custody and then that a court-appointed counselor would talk to the kids and see what was in their best interest. Honestly I felt like he had just now talked to his lawyer about this but had made up some hogwash earlier when I had asked. Why? I don't know!

 

He then changed the subject and I felt disappointed because I thought he was going to tell me what his meeting on Friday with his divorce lawyer was for. I mean, had he really only talked to him about custody and visitation of his son? If so then why were they meeting? So I couldn't help myself, I've been telling myself to stop questioning him about the divorce but I am the type of person who just needs to know things. So I said, what are you meeting with [divorce lawyer] about on Friday? Well then he looked at me with this really serious admitting-type of look and said, 'you know.' I said, what?, I don't know. He said, what do you think? It was so dumb, like we were grade schoolers playing a guessing game. He finally said, you know what I'm meeting with him for, and I said, well then just tell me, and he said, 'no you tell me.'

 

He changed the subject several times and I said are you just not going to answer my question?, and finally I just got exasperated and I said that whatever it was, it wasn't that serious about it or he would tell me. Then he told me not to give him ****. Huh? I said, I'm not giving you ****, I just want to know what's going on. You're the one who told me you would tell me about your call with the lawyer. He said I was right and then he said that he thinks he's ready to file for divorce.

 

Then he asked me if I was sure that I could do this and I said yes. Then he he said that if I had any reasons for not wanting to be with him, I should tell him now. I said I don't have any reasons. I said I don't feel that he's sure because he took so long to tell me and he said he 'thinks' he's ready and he was asking me if I wanted him to do it (basically). I said if he's not sure I'm okay with giving him more time, I understand if he needs it and I will just back off and give him space. Then he said he knows I love him and he knows I'm sure about us and he wants to get divorced.

 

I don't even know what to think. I feel sad and confused because I just don't believe what he says. Why can't he just tell me what he's really thinking? Nothing he's saying makes sense. Then he was calling and texting me all night telling me he's having a great time with his son and he's sure about divorce and his son is okay with his separation and he told me that the fortune cookie from the chinese food they ate says, 'He who plays safe is just playing.' He said it's symbolic of how I've been playing it too safe with him and he's been playing it too safe with me and we need to just take a risk and be together.

 

I feel like I have been taking a risk. I guess he thinks I've been playing it too safe because I question him and worry. I wish I could decipher what is really going on but I know that if he was actually going to file for divorce on Friday, he would tell me, instead of making me drag an answer out of him and then say he 'thinks' he's going to file on Friday? What? I always thought we had good communication but lately it's gone right down the toitey. I'm just tired of this. I feel like walking away and saying he's playing games with my heart. Either he's in or he's out. What's so hard about that.

Edited October 28, 2010 by maravilla

[maravilla]

I just feel like I'm spinning my wheels. It's a whole lot of nothing. I love him but I don't understand what he's even talking about anymore. Even when I try to ask him and understand what he means, I don't. So what is the point of a relationship like that? I've asked him some more since my last post about what his meeting on Friday is for and all I get is a bunch of blah blah blah! He said he's ready to live apart from his wife. Um hey buddy you're already living apart from her. So then he says he means forever, without her as his significant other, divorce. So then I ask if that means filing and first he says he can't file because his meeting's not until 3. He just wants advice on how and waht to do. He says divorce is not simple and there are child custody issues, spousal support issues, asset issues, insurance issues, retirement fund issues, investment issues, you don't just file and it's done. I'm not stupid, I know that!, but I thought you file to let the other party know you want a divorce and get the ball rolling and then you figure all of that out from there. Am I naive? Seriously, Loveshack peeps, am I missing something or do I have it right? In any case I said well then why didn't he tell me that earlier today when I asked him what his meeting was for? Instead of changing the subject and making me guess and then finally telling me he thinks he's ready to file? He said the real emotional milestone is deciding that you want to take the next step and then doing it, and he needs his lawyer's advice on how to take the next step. I said I thought he had already talked to his lawyer about how the process works. He said no, he talked to him about all the issues and he asked him to get him financial info. and property docs. He learned how many issues will need to be resolved. He doesn't want a long battle and he told his lawyer that.

 

I ended the conversation by saying I felt we were getting nowhere. I don't think I've ever been so frustrated in my life. The more I think about it, the more upset I get. So I'm going to go take a bath and read a book and try not to think about it. I just don't get him anymore. I question my own reasonableness and sanity when really I know I'm quite sane! Why do I allow this situation to cause me to question my own thoughts? It's befuddling to say the least.

[whichwayisup]

You're getting way too involved in this. How he handles his divorce lawyer, and how he ends his marriage is his business. He gave you the quick run down and wanted to drop it. By pushing it, it pissed him off and took it as you nagging him, that's why he picked an argument with you and turned this on YOU - Like are you sure you want me etc.. He's setting you up for the fall ..

 

Also, a 14 year old shouldn't have to choose which parent to live with!! Shared custody is best! This isn't going to be easy on those kids, their lives are turned upside down.

[maravilla]

So, whichwayisup, what are you suggesting I do? As far as I'm concerned his divorce is my business because he's been telling me all along he wants to get divorced and be with me. He told me earlier today he was going to tell me what he talked about with his lawyer. And then he just dodged the issue. That's not cool in my book. If he wants to be with me then he should be sharing this info. with me. That's how I see it anyway. And if he's not ready to get divorced or even tell me what page he's on without me having to pull it out of him, then why should I be with him? Not sure what you're saying here but at least I've figured out that I'm not happy with his half-answers. If he says he wants to be with me and he's getting divorced, he needs to follow through. I don't think that's being too demanding. That's just asking him to live up to his promises.

[maravilla]

I looked up child custody laws in my state and it does say that a court will consider the interests of a child. It also says

 

If the minor is fourteen years of age or older, the court shall consider the desires of the minor as to with whom he wishes to live before awarding custody of such minor.

 

So at least I know MM is telling the truth about that. And I'm not a parent but I was a fourteen year old child at one point and it makes sense to me that the court would consider my wishes as to with whom I wanted to live. Because at that age I did know how to form my own opinions and I would have wanted to have a say.

[imstunned]

maravilla, I can totally understand your frustration, (I'm a year further down the line I think and Ive just had to say goodbye to my separated man - he left his wife a year ago and has to be separated for a year before filing... )

 

 

I dont mean to sound harsh. but really HIS divorce is in fact nothing to do with you! its His Divorce, the end of HIS marriage. He is probably getting all sorts of questions from all sorts of people, and you as well. He will find the pressure phenomenal... You have said you are not happy with half answers, but sadly you cant FORCE him to give you the answers you are looking for. All YOU can do is decide if the situation is enough for you right now, and accept it, OR say goodbye and ask him to look you up when he is divorced. My man used to HATE being asked questions, it wasnt that he was unwilling to talk about it, but he liked to do it when he felt ready, or that he wanted to talk. Try easing off on the questions and see if he opens up to you a little more.

 

Know that you are not alone - there seem to be a few of us dealing with Separated men on here at the moment -( and its brought me out of lurking to posting.. )

[Silly_Girl]

Maravilla, your man's intentions towards YOU and his treatment of YOU are all you need to worry about. Taking it to the extreme, if he committed to marrying you on New Years Day then that's what you need to have in your mind. Him being married now and needing to be divorced by that date... HIS issues for HIM to man up and sort out. You can offer a friendly ear and show concern, but really your best bet is to shut the curtains on all of that and keep your focus on what's happening for YOU. I know first-hand (different type of situation) how really hard it is to do and how much self-discipline is required, but it does pay off, it IS worth it!

[maravilla]

Thank you both for the advice but I just don't think I can do that. He said he wants to be with me, he is getting divorced but he needs my encouragement and support. So I'm supposed to just shut the curtains and not know whether he's telling me the truth or not and what is really going on and when? I can't do that. It's not the type of relationship I want. If he wants to be with me then he will file for divorce. If not, I'm moving on. I really thank you guys for helping me clarify what I want out of this situation. I feel so much more at peace now. I don't think it's unreasonable to want to be let in on something that affects ME to such a degree. And affects us, what he says he wants too, our ability to be a couple.

 

So this is what I'm going to tell him. I'm not ready to be with him until he's ready to get divorced. And by that I mean file papers, tell her it is over, tell her and everyone else he is with me. If he's not ready I understand but I can't be with him. Because I want a real relationship or nothing at all.

[Carrot2000]

His words say:

 

 

Then he asked me if I was sure that I could do this and I said yes. Then he he said that if I had any reasons for not wanting to be with him, I should tell him now.

 

Then he said he knows I love him and he knows I'm sure about us and he wants to get divorced.

 

His words mean:

 

I won't do this unless I have a soft place to land, so I need to make sure you'll be around to break my fall. Really, my marriage is really not that awful and I know my wife will take me back if you won't have me, so let me know if you're gonna bail so I can start getting back in her good graces.I need you to let me know ASAP so I can be home by Thanksgiving, Xmas at the latest.

 

I'm sure you love me, but I have a contingency plan in place to make sure I won't end up alone if you change your mind.

 

Maravilla, if this marriage is as dead as he claims, he'd be getting a divorce whether or not you were sure about the relationship. He wouldn't give a damn about your uncertainty because he'd be certain that he didn't want his marriage. He wouldn't be waiting for his wife to file. He would expect your support, but wouldn't need your prodding and encouragement.

 

All of the fun and passion of your affair are about to be tested now that you're going into real life. He's right: if you're not up for the shyte he's about to put you through, get out of the game now.

 

BTW, how long have you been seeing this man? How long has he been married?

[maravilla]

Carrot,

 

Do you think that if I keep telling him yes, I'm here for him, he will actually follow through and get divorced? It seems like he will but I'm getting exhausted waiting and wondering.

 

We've been together for seven months, he's been married 16 years.

[jwi71]

I just feel like I'm spinning my wheels. It's a whole lot of nothing. I love him but I don't understand what he's even talking about anymore. Even when I try to ask him and understand what he means, I don't. So what is the point of a relationship like that?

 

I can only imagine what his W is going through...I wonder what he tells HER.

 

You are, in a very REAL sense, getting the tip of the iceberg as to your life with him. Evasive answers and half-truths and omissions and the leading on....seems like its YOUR norm.

 

I've asked him some more since my last post about what his meeting on Friday is for and all I get is a bunch of blah blah blah! He said he's ready to live apart from his wife. Um hey buddy you're already living apart from her. So then he says he means forever, without her as his significant other, divorce. So then I ask if that means filing and first he says he can't file because his meeting's not until 3. He just wants advice on how and waht to do. He says divorce is not simple and there are child custody issues, spousal support issues, asset issues, insurance issues, retirement fund issues, investment issues, you don't just file and it's done.

Wow...so he's done virtually NOTHING then huh.

All of these talks with his lawyer were, in fact, lies. Must be or he would already have those answers. And the talks with his CPA...more lies because again he would already have those answers pertaining to retirement et al.

 

And D is deceptively simple. It will ultimately boil down to those two sitting at a table and dividing it all (99.99% end like this...the TV show courtroom divorces are very rare because they are very expensive and time consuming).

 

I can't fathom why he loves you and knows he wants to be with you and can't bother to be open and honest with you regarding his D. He is either lying or you are again getting a taste of what life is like with him.

 

I'm not stupid, I know that!, but I thought you file to let the other party know you want a divorce and get the ball rolling and then you figure all of that out from there. Am I naive? Seriously, Loveshack peeps, am I missing something or do I have it right?

Essentially you are correct. He will file for D at the county clerk (his lawyer will) and then his W will be served so that she knows she is being sued (A D is a lawsuit whose remedy is the dissolution of the marriage). The next step is for the parties to begin dividing assets and all the other issues. This is the part done at a table I mentioned (I did mine with my now xW at our kitchen table...fast and easy). Then both parties sign it and have a judge sign off on it and presto - they are divorced. That's it in a nutshell.

In any case I said well then why didn't he tell me that earlier today when I asked him what his meeting was for? Instead of changing the subject and making me guess and then finally telling me he thinks he's ready to file? He said the real emotional milestone is deciding that you want to take the next step and then doing it, and he needs his lawyer's advice on how to take the next step.

I have to ask...but how old are you?

Anyways...I thought he was already emotionally there? Now he's not.

And the next step? That's a laugh since he hasn't even taking the first step of MEETING and HIRING a lawyer. Look, there is NO advice at this point in time because he HASNT FILED. What advice can anyone give him? He HAS TO FILE FIRST. THat's the first freakin' step. At this point the ONLY advice to be given is WHEN to file (get ready for the "I cant do this at the holidays" line - its coming).

 

I think you are in for a bad weekend. Especially when he sees how much money he is going to lose (at least half).

 

I said I thought he had already talked to his lawyer about how the process works. He said no, he talked to him about all the issues and he asked him to get him financial info. and property docs. He learned how many issues will need to be resolved. He doesn't want a long battle and he told his lawyer that.

Not passing the smell test.

 

When are you going to get angry about all of his lies? And, lets face it, he's lying to you.

 

I ended the conversation by saying I felt we were getting nowhere. I don't think I've ever been so frustrated in my life. The more I think about it, the more upset I get. So I'm going to go take a bath and read a book and try not to think about it. I just don't get him anymore. I question my own reasonableness and sanity when really I know I'm quite sane! Why do I allow this situation to cause me to question my own thoughts? It's befuddling to say the least.

Oddly enough, this is EXACTLY how his W feels. Most BS feel like this...no idea which way is up (love the pun...thank you very much). And there is only one way you get like this...being fed a bunch of stinky crappy lies which don't make sense. You get words and actions not in alignment.

 

I see where there is a large age gap and you have been with him 7 months from subsequent posts. These are HUGE red flags.

 

In fact, I can't see any positive steps he has taken towards D. Oh, Im sure some will say he moved out...but I wonder if tossed out isnt more like it. And I wonder if he told his W why...did he say to D her and marry you? OR something else?

 

Why don't you inform him you are thinking of having lunch with his W...to talk about things. Tell me what his face looks like ok?

[maravilla]

You give straight-forward advice, jwi71, for which I thank you. It's what I'm already thinking and I think I just need to hear it reiterated enough so I know I'm not crazy. Because now when I'm with him and trying to talk to him and figure things out I feel crazy. Literally crazy.

 

I can only imagine what his W is going through...I wonder what he tells HER.

 

You are, in a very REAL sense, getting the tip of the iceberg as to your life with him. Evasive answers and half-truths and omissions and the leading on....seems like its YOUR norm.

 

Yeah I guess this is just who he is.

 

Wow...so he's done virtually NOTHING then huh.

All of these talks with his lawyer were, in fact, lies. Must be or he would already have those answers. And the talks with his CPA...more lies because again he would already have those answers pertaining to retirement et al.

 

And D is deceptively simple. It will ultimately boil down to those two sitting at a table and dividing it all (99.99% end like this...the TV show courtroom divorces are very rare because they are very expensive and time consuming).

 

I can't fathom why he loves you and knows he wants to be with you and can't bother to be open and honest with you regarding his D. He is either lying or you are again getting a taste of what life is like with him.

 

Essentially you are correct. He will file for D at the county clerk (his lawyer will) and then his W will be served so that she knows she is being sued (A D is a lawsuit whose remedy is the dissolution of the marriage). The next step is for the parties to begin dividing assets and all the other issues. This is the part done at a table I mentioned (I did mine with my now xW at our kitchen table...fast and easy). Then both parties sign it and have a judge sign off on it and presto - they are divorced. That's it in a nutshell.

I have to ask...but how old are you?

 

I'm in my late 20's.

 

In bold is what's been running through my head when people say, it's his divorce, stay out of it. I get that but my issue is that he has involved me in every aspect of his life and I have involved him in every aspect of mine. He makes it sound so easy to be together and says he's sure he wants this, and we have long hours-on-end conversations where we share everything under the sun with each other, and yet he can't fill me in on the basics of what's happening with his divorce? I don't need to know all the details or divisions etc. but I just want to know the actual status. I wasn't pressing him to find out the details, but just to find out what he was actually saying, whether or not he had seen the lawyer before, what the purpose of him seeing him this time was for, how long it would take to file, etc. I feel I have a right to know this because he is the one telling me he wants to do it so we can be together. I don't want to be jerked around. I had no problem going through this with him and being here for him but if he's asking me to wait around while he sees if he can get ready to divorce, all the while telling me he's totally ready and going to divorce, I can't do that. That's him saying one thing and doing another and I feel stupid hanging on for that.

 

From what I get out of our garbled conversations, he is trying to understand the process and, yes, everything he'll lose, obviously time with the kids, money, property, the house. He said there's some kind of interim order that will be entered and he is asking the lawyer what all that entails. He wants to know what exactly he's going into. I understand that, and honestly, I know it takes time and I could wait but my issue with him is that he hasn't been honest and forthcoming with me. He's made me believe he is further along emotionally and procedurally than he really is. And I don't understand why because I thought we had a close relationship where he could feel free to share things with me. I guess he knows that if he told me he doesn't know yet whether he wants to get divorced, I wouldn't stick around. I mean, I wouldn't cross him out of my life but why would I wait around for him to decide if he really wants to be with me? So he just tells me he wants to be with me and is getting divorced instead of giving me the truth. This makes me hate him. Honestly it does. It's not fair to do to me. I guess I shouldn't have expected fair, starting out as OW, but I did, because he told me he loved me, and I took it at face value. Stupid me.

 

Anyways...I thought he was already emotionally there? Now he's not.

 

Yeah that's what I thought. I think he was trying to say he's decided he's emotionally ready and that was the big first step. But I get mad because he has been telling me he's ready for weeks! He must think I'm stupid that he can tell me he's ready and then weeks later when he claims he's making progress and I ask for details he says, 'well I've done the biggest step now of deciding I'm ready.' I guess I am stupid to have been believing in him!

 

And the next step? That's a laugh since he hasn't even taking the first step of MEETING and HIRING a lawyer. Look, there is NO advice at this point in time because he HASNT FILED. What advice can anyone give him? He HAS TO FILE FIRST. THat's the first freakin' step. At this point the ONLY advice to be given is WHEN to file (get ready for the "I cant do this at the holidays" line - its coming).

 

I think you are in for a bad weekend. Especially when he sees how much money he is going to lose (at least half).

 

Not passing the smell test.

 

That's true, he talked with the lawyer who is his professional acquaintance on the phone but this is his first meeting with him and he hasn't paid him any money. I guess it's like a consult? He has mentioned that the lawyer sees dollar signs when he sees MM's number on his phone because he is going to make a lot of money off of MM. So I think MM doesn't want to retain the lawyer until he knows I'm 100% here for him. Well, what else can I do to show him I'm here? His crazy-making is making me not want to be here yet here I am and that's still not good enough.

 

He's told me before that he wants to do it before the holidays, before Thanksgiving. He said it needs to be over by then. The house he is looking to lease is available after thanksgiving and he told me his kids will be having two separate thanksgiving dinners, one with each parent. He also told me his wife was planning a trip for them in December and he said he wouldn't be going and wouldn't be back living there in December because he was getting his own long-term place. So he's been making it sound all along that he will file before thanksgiving.

 

When are you going to get angry about all of his lies? And, lets face it, he's lying to you.

 

Oddly enough, this is EXACTLY how his W feels. Most BS feel like this...no idea which way is up (love the pun...thank you very much). And there is only one way you get like this...being fed a bunch of stinky crappy lies which don't make sense. You get words and actions not in alignment.

 

I see where there is a large age gap and you have been with him 7 months from subsequent posts. These are HUGE red flags.

 

I've started to get angry and I understand that his wife probably feels the same way.

 

 

In fact, I can't see any positive steps he has taken towards D. Oh, Im sure some will say he moved out...but I wonder if tossed out isnt more like it. And I wonder if he told his W why...did he say to D her and marry you? OR something else?

 

Why don't you inform him you are thinking of having lunch with his W...to talk about things. Tell me what his face looks like ok?

 

I think he told his wife he is moving out for space and that he isn't talking to me anymore. I've told him that we shouldn't be going around as a couple, which we do, until he's filed for divorce or at least told her he is definitely going to file and that he is with me. He said he doesn't want to hurt her more than necessary and rub our relationship in her face and that it will be easier if he doesn't tell her he's leaving for me. (I thought that would have been obvious because she found out about us and then he left. And yes maybe he was kicked out, I wouldn't know one way or the other. Maybe she really isn't waiting to take him back if he comes back. That's how he makes it sound but who knows. I feel I don't know anything anymore.) I said fine, if he doesn't want to tell her what he's telling me-that he loves me and wants to be with me-then at least tell her he wants a divorce. I don't think he's told her that, I think it's a trial separation and she thinks he's deciding if he wants to get divorced or not, which I guess is exactly what he's doing.

[Confused4Now]

He's told me before that he wants to do it before the holidays, before Thanksgiving. He said it needs to be over by then. The house he is looking to lease is available after thanksgiving and he told me his kids will be having two separate thanksgiving dinners, one with each parent. He also told me his wife was planning a trip for them in December and he said he wouldn't be going and wouldn't be back living there in December because he was getting his own long-term place. So he's been making it sound all along that he will file before thanksgiving.

 

 

I think he told his wife he is moving out for space and that he isn't talking to me anymore. I've told him that we shouldn't be going around as a couple, which we do, until he's filed for divorce or at least told her he is definitely going to file and that he is with me. He said he doesn't want to hurt her more than necessary and rub our relationship in her face and that it will be easier if he doesn't tell her he's leaving for me. (I thought that would have been obvious because she found out about us and then he left. And yes maybe he was kicked out, I wouldn't know one way or the other. Maybe she really isn't waiting to take him back if he comes back. That's how he makes it sound but who knows. I feel I don't know anything anymore.) I said fine, if he doesn't want to tell her what he's telling me-that he loves me and wants to be with me-then at least tell her he wants a divorce. I don't think he's told her that, I think it's a trial separation and she thinks he's deciding if he wants to get divorced or not, which I guess is exactly what he's doing.

Ok now I'm getting upset cause this sounds like the crap I went through with my xMW. First of all....before the holidays? GET that out of you head right now. Treat those days just like everyday that goes by now. The minute you put deadlines and they don't happen guess what? You start to spiral down. So throw the dates out now.

 

Second of all....he down plays you and then he says he doesn't want to hurt her more than she is already? I hate to say this but most divorces are not amicable...so guess what I had to learn the hard way....I had to be crappy to my xW cause you know why I would be sending her mixed messages. She had to know WE ARE DONE....cause yes it hurts....but guess what. Sending mixed messages prolongs the hurt. Get it over with and be done with it. Divorce = Death of a relationship and death of a marriage. PERIOD!!!!

[maravilla]

Ok now I'm getting upset cause this sounds like the crap I went through with my xMW. First of all....before the holidays? GET that out of you head right now. Treat those days just like everyday that goes by now. The minute you put deadlines and they don't happen guess what? You start to spiral down. So throw the dates out now.

 

Second of all....he down plays you and then he says he doesn't want to hurt her more than she is already? I hate to say this but most divorces are not amicable...so guess what I had to learn the hard way....I had to be crappy to my xW cause you know why I would be sending her mixed messages. She had to know WE ARE DONE....cause yes it hurts....but guess what. Sending mixed messages prolongs the hurt. Get it over with and be done with it. Divorce = Death of a relationship and death of a marriage. PERIOD!!!!

 

Exactly, and I guess he's not ready to kill off the relationship and that's why he hasn't told her. If he told her he was getting divorced and loves me, or just filed, then he knows there wouldn't be any hope. He is keeping both doors open. It's like he's told me he's inching his way across the room to close the door that leads to her. And he expects me to be happy with that progress. And to believe him. When he is clearly so confused he doesn't even know what he's doing or what he wants. At least it's all becoming clearer to me now. I came here to find out how to deal with this yucky time period between separation and divorce and now I realize it's way more yucky than I initially thought.

 

I don't like that he minimizes me to her. At one point he said he doesn't want to rub it in but if she asks about me, after he files, he'll tell her. I pointed out that she's asked about me several times in the past and he's denied me to her. I guess he thinks it will be different once he actually files. IF he actually files!

 

Why am I putting up with his BS? Because I love him and feel bad for him and try to understand? I have so much going for me, I know I can do better than this half-in half-out relationship.

[Confused4Now]

His words say:

 

 

 

His words mean:

 

I won't do this unless I have a soft place to land, so I need to make sure you'll be around to break my fall. Really, my marriage is really not that awful and I know my wife will take me back if you won't have me, so let me know if you're gonna bail so I can start getting back in her good graces.I need you to let me know ASAP so I can be home by Thanksgiving, Xmas at the latest.

 

I'm sure you love me, but I have a contingency plan in place to make sure I won't end up alone if you change your mind.

 

Maravilla, if this marriage is as dead as he claims, he'd be getting a divorce whether or not you were sure about the relationship. He wouldn't give a damn about your uncertainty because he'd be certain that he didn't want his marriage. He wouldn't be waiting for his wife to file. He would expect your support, but wouldn't need your prodding and encouragement.

 

All of the fun and passion of your affair are about to be tested now that you're going into real life. He's right: if you're not up for the shyte he's about to put you through, get out of the game now.

 

BTW, how long have you been seeing this man? How long has he been married?

Wow...Isn't this the truth....this exactly screams of what's going on. Read this MARAVILLA!!!

[2sure]

If I were an OW and my MM and I decided we wanted to be together and for him to get divorced...I would consider the divorce something I needed to know about. Because it greatly affects the most important relationship currently in your life and possibly the future.

 

If a man told me he was getting a divorce and wanted to KNOW that I wanted to be with him and would be supportive to him...

 

I would not, of course, involve myself in the details of the divorce between he and his wife...But I would KNOW and be able to verify that the divorce was happening, when, and its progress.

 

After all, if any other woman were waiting on XYZ to happen so she and her fiancé could get married...she would be part of the process or at least not have valid reasons to question that XYZ was happening at all.

[Confused4Now]

Exactly, and I guess he's not ready to kill off the relationship and that's why he hasn't told her. If he told her he was getting divorced and loves me, or just filed, then he knows there wouldn't be any hope. He is keeping both doors open. It's like he's told me he's inching his way across the room to close the door that leads to her. And he expects me to be happy with that progress. And to believe him. When he is clearly so confused he doesn't even know what he's doing or what he wants. At least it's all becoming clearer to me now. I came here to find out how to deal with this yucky time period between separation and divorce and now I realize it's way more yucky than I initially thought.

 

I don't like that he minimizes me to her. At one point he said he doesn't want to rub it in but if she asks about me, after he files, he'll tell her. I pointed out that she's asked about me several times in the past and he's denied me to her. I guess he thinks it will be different once he actually files. IF he actually files!

 

Where in this dialog does it show you he's proving he wants a future with you? This guy doesn't even look like a guy who threw all his eggs in one basket for you.... it's so clear your still the hidden person. So sad....this guy is clearly leaving all his options open he does not want to be alone. WEAK!!! This is why I walked away....Please focus on you...

[BB07]

If I were an OW and my MM and I decided we wanted to be together and for him to get divorced...I would consider the divorce something I needed to know about. Because it greatly affects the most important relationship currently in your life and possibly the future.

 

If a man told me he was getting a divorce and wanted to KNOW that I wanted to be with him and would be supportive to him...

 

I would not, of course, involve myself in the details of the divorce between he and his wife...But I would KNOW and be able to verify that the divorce was happening, when, and its progress.

 

After all, if any other woman were waiting on XYZ to happen so she and her fiancé could get married...she would be part of the process or at least not have valid reasons to question that XYZ was happening at all.

 

Great post......and I have to say that had I handled my situation in that way, I would have found out the truth sooner.

 

To to OP......I know I'm cynical because of what happened to me, but have you actually VERIFIED (other than what mm is telling you) that he has actually moved out??

 

From what I've been reading from your posts he sounds like a confused man who is not certain of anything and he is telling you what he thinks you want to hear so he won't be alone, but I'm afraid he is keeping all his options open with his wife but keeping you also.

[2sure]

I also dont like the idea that the guy is so used to you accepting that he is with another woman...that he offers you commitment while at the same time expecting you to accept being kept in the dark, no questions asked. Who does that? In any other relationship you would be able to at least ASK and receive solid answers about such important decisions and actions that he is saying you are a big part of.

[jwi71]

yet he can't fill me in on the basics of what's happening with his divorce? I don't need to know all the details or divisions etc. but I just want to know the actual status.

 

What D? Gotta case number?

There's your status...there is NO D so no status can be given.

 

And his D lawyer he retained? His/her name?

 

All I want you to do is look at his ACTIONS. Forget the words for words are easily lies. What concrete ACTIONS has he taken? Simple actions like his case number...or even his lawyer's name.

 

And I still have not decided if the mistress has a "right" to be involved in a D. I mean, like you said, it DOES effect her life too and as such she has a right to know. Yet the legal proceedings themselves have nothing to do with the OW (A few states an OW might have negligible effects...but basically an A doesn't radically alter a D in my view and experience). Right now, at lunch, my lean is for you to ask...its YOUR life so get involved. And lets not forget that D cases are PUBLIC RECORD and open to all anyway. Just go to your local county clerk's website and look for civil/family court records...they are likely online...they are here in Dallas anyway.

, whether or not he had seen the lawyer before,

 

He hasn't

 

what the purpose of him seeing him this time was for,

 

Well, most lawyers are loathe to give out free advice over the phone...they prefer you to PAY and come in. Lets face it, a lawyer is a skilled professional whose product is legal service...ie his/her brain...they don't like to give their product away for free.

 

how long it would take to file,

 

I can answer that. It depends on how fast the lawyer can get his (or her) butt down to the clerk's office and register the forms. Say...48 hours? Really, all filing is...is filing! The lawyer takes some papers filled out by "your MM" and files them. Simple - the largest obstacle might be traffic...or maybe parking.

 

I feel I have a right to know this because he is the one telling me he wants to do it so we can be together. I don't want to be jerked around. I had no problem going through this with him and being here for him but if he's asking me to wait around while he sees if he can get ready to divorce, all the while telling me he's totally ready and going to divorce, I can't do that. That's him saying one thing and doing another and I feel stupid hanging on for that.

 

Well if he told his W that he moved out as a trail separation and NOT because he is filing so he can marry you then you are getting jerked around.

 

And I don't understand why because I thought we had a close relationship where he could feel free to share things with me. I guess he knows that if he told me he doesn't know yet whether he wants to get divorced, I wouldn't stick around. I mean, I wouldn't cross him out of my life but why would I wait around for him to decide if he really wants to be with me? So he just tells me he wants to be with me and is getting divorced instead of giving me the truth.

 

Because he doesn't know if you are worth it for HIM.

You are, in essence, asking him to give up everything he worked for in life to be with you. And he's known you for 7 months. And your old enough to be his daughter. That's why.

 

This makes me hate him. Honestly it does. It's not fair to do to me. I guess I shouldn't have expected fair, starting out as OW, but I did, because he told me he loved me, and I took it at face value. Stupid me.

 

Fair to his kids? Nope.

Fair to you? Nope.

Fair to his W? Nope.

Fair to him? Hell yeah it is.

(HE gets to CHOOSE which path and everyone just WAITS for him to decide...and I promise the story he feeds the W is FAR different from what he tells you).

 

 

That's true, he talked with the lawyer who is his professional acquaintance on the phone but this is his first meeting with him and he hasn't paid him any money.

 

Is the friend a divorce lawyer?

 

I guess it's like a consult? He has mentioned that the lawyer sees dollar signs when he sees MM's number on his phone because he is going to make a lot of money off of MM. So I think MM doesn't want to retain the lawyer until he knows I'm 100% here for him. Well, what else can I do to show him I'm here? His crazy-making is making me not want to be here yet here I am and that's still not good enough.

 

Do you really believe he is CHOOSING you out of the depths of his heart? That you are the "one" for him? It doesn't sound like it to me.

 

He's told me before that he wants to do it before the holidays, before Thanksgiving

 

Impossible. I don't even know what state you are in and I can PROMISE it wont happen before next year. No way he gets on the docket that fast. Civil cases ALWAYS have a long line. Hell, just call the county clerk and ASK...they can give you a rough estimate of when it gets before a judge. You know, for a man who wants a D, he isn't doing much (other than talk about it) to get the answers.

 

. He said it needs to be over by then. The house he is looking to lease is available after thanksgiving and he told me his kids will be having two separate thanksgiving dinners, one with each parent. He also told me his wife was planning a trip for them in December and he said he wouldn't be going and wouldn't be back living there in December because he was getting his own long-term place. So he's been making it sound all along that he will file before thanksgiving

 

And doing what to make it happen? Forget his words...look at his ACTIONS...what has he DONE to make this happen?

 

I've started to get angry and I understand that his wife probably feels the same way.

 

Here's a shock for you. I bet the W doesn't know you are STILL in the picture. My money is on he told his W he wants to "clear his head" and that the A is over. I bet she has no idea you are around. Ever look at his call and text record on his cell phone? Try it...

 

I think he told his wife he is moving out for space and that he isn't talking to me anymore. I've told him that we shouldn't be going around as a couple, which we do, until he's filed for divorce or at least told her he is definitely going to file and that he is with me. He said he doesn't want to hurt her more than necessary and rub our relationship in her face and that it will be easier if he doesn't tell her he's leaving for me. (I thought that would have been obvious because she found out about us and then he left. And yes maybe he was kicked out, I wouldn't know one way or the other. Maybe she really isn't waiting to take him back if he comes back. That's how he makes it sound but who knows. I feel I don't know anything anymore.) I said fine, if he doesn't want to tell her what he's telling me-that he loves me and wants to be with me-then at least tell her he wants a divorce. I don't think he's told her that, I think it's a trial separation and she thinks he's deciding if he wants to get divorced or not, which I guess is exactly what he's doing.

 

Did you ever envision this? Or did you think you would find a man who ACTUALLY WANTS YOU. A man who chooses you...well, for YOU. Because of who you are.

 

Not because its easier for HIM.

 

I can promise you that man is out there. The man who says it and PROVES it with easily observable and PUBLIC ACTION. Like...going to Thanksgiving WITH him. By being open and honest and PUTTING YOU FIRST.

 

Its not love if he chooses actions which cause you pain or doubt. A man in love NEVER chooses that for the one he loves.

 

Choose love...and this ain't it.

 

Sorry...but that's how I see it.

 

Walk. Cry your tears, learn your lesson and find that man.