karnak Posted October 28, 2010 Posted October 28, 2010 I think this thread is proving that most cheaters are selfish on the core. They're never bad parents:rolleyes:. At least, that's what they say.
Owl Posted October 28, 2010 Posted October 28, 2010 In that case:: An affair is just that--an affair--it should not be compared to being a bad parent. The two are separate. This thread isn't COMPARING having an affair to being a bad parent. It's discussing the possibility that having an affair CAUSES ONE TO ACT AS A BAD PARENT. No comparison...linear progression. Choosing to have an affair forces you to make some poor decisions in other aspects of your life...with some pretty hefty negative impacts to children/family/friends as a result. And having an affair is a voluntary act...a CHOICE. Ergo, deliberately, intentionally making a choice that negatively impacts your children and spouse. Nothing like having a terminal disease.
xxoo Posted October 28, 2010 Posted October 28, 2010 In that case:: An affair is just that--an affair--it should not be compared to being a bad parent. The two are separate. An affair doesn't need to be compared to being a bad parent. The actions of engaging in an affair are very often actions of bad parenting. Lying to the children and their other parent about something important to them, putting the children's other parent at physical and emotional risk, redirecting limited resources (time, money) to an AP in favor of the children = bad parent.
karnak Posted October 28, 2010 Posted October 28, 2010 Just a personal example: When I was a kid I used to be punished by my parents when I told lies. I then thought "OK. Telling lies is wrong... I should never lie". As I was growing up I began to see my parents telling lies (to each other or other people). Then I thought: "What the ****?!?!?! They punished me for telling lies and now they do the same?? What kind of morality is this?!! Suffice it to say that I love my parents. I appreciate everything that they've done for me. But, my respect for them has since taken a severe blow. If you want to set examples, then live by them or shut the **** up!
turnera Posted October 28, 2010 Posted October 28, 2010 Would I "promote" having an affair--no but I will forever promote my children to do and be the happiest and content person they can be.No matter how they attain it? Will you stand by their side as they are arraigned for stealing from a jewelry store, just because they figured a new diamond necklace would make them happy?
carhill Posted October 28, 2010 Posted October 28, 2010 IMO, a cheating spouse can't be a good parent if he/she is betraying the mother/father of the children. But I also think that if a cheating spouse is a good parent to the children, he/she is a good parent. So my answer is yes and no. I'd like to know other people's opinions. Thanks. I don't know about male parents, but the MW's I've known, who are compartmentalized enough to betray their M's, have demonstrably been effective and positive parents, no better and no worse than 'normal' parents. Perhaps it's the compartmentalization which is the key; the wife compartment, the mother compartment and the lover compartment are separated psychologically. I would presume if, as society seems to indicate, that mothers still do the predominant day-to-day parenting of children, then males who have the psychology to cheat long-term can also compartmentalize their parenting role and be good parents in their minority role. The nebulous part is the ambiance of the M as perceived by the children and how that dynamic affects their psyches over time. I still think some of the affair dynamic seeps in, but may be wrong about that. If it does seep in, that would affect the overall health of the parental role, IMO.
Author kuma Posted October 28, 2010 Author Posted October 28, 2010 My children sensed his disconnect and my resulting loneliness way before I did. My children suspected way before I told them. No insult taken! Thanks. Yes, children pick up on the tension in the home. It affects their emotional well-being.
Author kuma Posted October 28, 2010 Author Posted October 28, 2010 (edited) Perhaps it's the compartmentalization which is the key; the wife compartment, the mother compartment and the lover compartment are separated psychologically. So they can live double lives... How do they manage that?! Edited October 28, 2010 by kuma
carhill Posted October 28, 2010 Posted October 28, 2010 Yes, I have written about such a person in my journals, someone who became known to me through my exW many years ago. The mitigating factor might be one of perception. If one doesn't believe they're cheating, are they? If I didn't believe I was enabling that cheating, would I be absolved of my responsibility? We each write our own moral codes and organize our psyches in our unique and personal ways. Lastly, anyone who's ever read a parenting forum, or LS for that matter, can clearly see the results of even insinuating that *any* parent is less than a *good* or *perfect* parent. Nothing causes people to bristle more than incursions upon their most elemental emotional investment, that into their child. Whole marriages and families have been sacrificed at that altar. A serial cheater? Yeah, sure, but don't ever say I was/am a bad parent. NO WAY! .... that's usually how it goes. This is especially true in families where reproductive success is elemental to the family's 'success' in society, e.g. the 'perfect' family. It's so intense that it's scary sometimes, to me anyway.
Author kuma Posted October 28, 2010 Author Posted October 28, 2010 (edited) If one doesn't believe they're cheating, are they? Maybe she believes she's a good wife and a mother, she won't let herself think about her affair? I don't know... Anyway, thanks for your thoughts! Edited October 28, 2010 by kuma Correction
painfullyobvious Posted October 29, 2010 Posted October 29, 2010 The very act of cheating sets the tone for poor modeling for the children. It brings an environment of disrespect towards the BS not to mention what it brings to the children's idea of trust, respect, and self-esteem. One of my favorite books I have read about cheating and divorce is Growing Up Divorced. It is an older book but it tells a pretty terrible tale about how children internalize emotions, sexual ideations, and relationships in the future after growing up in an environment of infidelity, single parent homes, based on their perceptions of their parents relationship/marriage. To answer your question directly; NO! Even if they are perfect in every other parental endevour there is still too much damage in the environment based on the WS behavior.
alexandria35 Posted October 30, 2010 Posted October 30, 2010 Okay I haven't read through the whole thread, I got as far as the post comparing having cancer to having an affair and I thought my head was going to explode. How in the hell are these two things comparable? Having cancer is not lying and deceiving your family, it's not selfish, it's not chosen, it's not setting a bad example, it's not teaching your kids to deal with problems by cheating and running away. It's just not comparable in any way, shape or form and I find it disgusting that anyone would try to say it is.
mtndew Posted October 30, 2010 Posted October 30, 2010 (edited) I know a lot of kids whose parents divorced for whatever reason, and after the initial shock and hurt of a marriage dissolving, the kids went on to thrive. Some well beyond where they would have been if the marriage continued on in a less than healthy and loving environment. The key to it all is that both of the parents put aside, at least around the kids, any ill feelings and spousal bashing. That they work together and coparent the kids. I also know of several kids in their teens that were glad their parents divorced. Both divorced parents worked hard together for the benefit of the kids and actually realized that they loved each other, but were not healthy for each other. And in at least one of the cases, it took another MM or MW for them to realize the amount of dis ease among the couple. The negativity, the anger, the passive aggressive bs that was there long before an EA or PA ever raised its' ugly head. I know initially it can be exceptionally tough on a family that suffers from one parent getting involved in an affair. And it is a lifechanging event for all concerned, but sometimes very positive things can occur as a result. Kids can thrive. Individuals can move on to better relationships or to become better within themselves as a result. Marriages can be reset, issues resolved and the couple can be more than they ever would have pre-affair. I know, hit me with a 2 x 4, we all took a vow for better and worse, etc, etc, and that it is hard work. Just because it gets tough doesn't give you the right to throw in the towel, but if I am busy trying to fill in the holes, but my mate is busier making more holes, something has to happen. Not all people who get involved are evil and selfish. And some even manage to remain exceptional parents who can take what they have learned about a failed relationship and hopefully convey to their kids as they get older how to one look for someone that is truly lifetime partner material. Two, how to build a proper foundation for a marriage. And three, how to turn that into unconditional love that will last and be less prone to affair. Edited October 30, 2010 by mtndew
bentnotbroken Posted October 30, 2010 Posted October 30, 2010 I know a lot of kids whose parents divorced for whatever reason, and after the initial shock and hurt of a marriage dissolving, the kids went on to thrive. Some well beyond where they would have been if the marriage continued on in a less than healthy and loving environment. The key to it all is that both of the parents put aside, at least around the kids, any ill feelings and spousal bashing. That they work together and coparent the kids. I also know of several kids in their teens that were glad their parents divorced. Both divorced parents worked hard together for the benefit of the kids and actually realized that they loved each other, but were not healthy for each other. And in at least one of the cases, it took another MM or MW for them to realize the amount of dis ease among the couple. The negativity, the anger, the passive aggressive bs that was there long before an EA or PA ever raised its' ugly head. I know initially it can be exceptionally tough on a family that suffers from one parent getting involved in an affair. And it is a lifechanging event for all concerned, but sometimes very positive things can occur as a result. Kids can thrive. Individuals can move on to better relationships or to become better within themselves as a result. Marriages can be reset, issues resolved and the couple can be more than they ever would have pre-affair. I know, hit me with a 2 x 4, we all took a vow for better and worse, etc, etc, and that it is hard work. Just because it gets tough doesn't give you the right to throw in the towel, but if I am busy trying to fill in the holes, but my mate is busier making more holes, something has to happen. Not all people who get involved are evil and selfish. And some even manage to remain exceptional parents who can take what they have learned about a failed relationship and hopefully convey to their kids as they get older how to one look for someone that is truly lifetime partner material. Two, how to build a proper foundation for a marriage. And three, how to turn that into unconditional love that will last and be less prone to affair. The question wasn't about kids how the children would fair after their parents divorce. I agree many are better off. The question was if we thought a cheating parent was a good parent. I know you are trying to point out why you did what you did, but that isn't the discussion of the thread.
BB07 Posted October 31, 2010 Posted October 31, 2010 IMO, it depends on the individual and how they let the affair affect their parenting. I think most people in an affair are going to be distracted and it's pretty safe to say that it would take a very rare person to not let it affect their parenting at all. Hopefully the negative will be very little, but yet what is worse to me for the children is the fall out that happens after the affair.
JAGeezer Posted October 31, 2010 Posted October 31, 2010 IMO, it depends on the individual and how they let the affair affect their parenting. I think most people in an affair are going to be distracted and it's pretty safe to say that it would take a very rare person to not let it affect their parenting at all. Hopefully the negative will be very little, but yet what is worse to me for the children is the fall out that happens after the affair. No offense intended but I find the concept that there are extra-marital affairs that don't affect the WS's parenting to be wishful thinking. Whether it's a slow leakage of personal focus and resources or the emotional holocaust that occurs after D-Day, the WS's A will have a negative impact on their children. Every. Single. Time. The idea that it "depends on the person" springs from a WS trying to duck the consequences of their actions on people who depended on them, from an AP who thinks that their MM/MW is parent of the year regardless of the truth of the matter....or from a tortured BS who's trying to rationalize their spouse, whom they believed loved them, behaving like a selfish jackass. JAG
fooled once Posted October 31, 2010 Posted October 31, 2010 As someone who's best friend just lost her baby to cancer, who use to bathe and help terminal cancer patients with daily things, and who sat and consoled a client the day the doctor called and said the cancer has returned, it pisses me off that you would make such a comparison!! No one chooses to have cancer. You chose to have your affair. Your comparison is reprehensible. Ditto One choice might not define you but constantly doing the same crap over and over again, does indeed define you. Ditto This thread isn't COMPARING having an affair to being a bad parent. It's discussing the possibility that having an affair CAUSES ONE TO ACT AS A BAD PARENT. No comparison...linear progression. Choosing to have an affair forces you to make some poor decisions in other aspects of your life...with some pretty hefty negative impacts to children/family/friends as a result. And having an affair is a voluntary act...a CHOICE. Ergo, deliberately, intentionally making a choice that negatively impacts your children and spouse. Nothing like having a terminal disease. Ditto Okay I haven't read through the whole thread, I got as far as the post comparing having cancer to having an affair and I thought my head was going to explode. How in the hell are these two things comparable? Having cancer is not lying and deceiving your family, it's not selfish, it's not chosen, it's not setting a bad example, it's not teaching your kids to deal with problems by cheating and running away. It's just not comparable in any way, shape or form and I find it disgusting that anyone would try to say it is. Ditto
Author kuma Posted October 31, 2010 Author Posted October 31, 2010 And some even manage to remain exceptional parents who can take what they have learned about a failed relationship and hopefully convey to their kids as they get older how to one look for someone that is truly lifetime partner material. Two, how to build a proper foundation for a marriage. And three, how to turn that into unconditional love that will last and be less prone to affair. I agree with you. My parents' failed marriage has taught me: If spouses take each other for granted, the marriage is most likely doomed to fail. Another thing I learned is that marriage is not all about love, it's a commitment.
karnak Posted November 1, 2010 Posted November 1, 2010 I agree with you. My parents' failed marriage has taught me: If spouses take each other for granted, the marriage is most likely doomed to fail. Another thing I learned is that marriage is not all about love, it's a commitment. Yup, but without love there can really be no true commitment.
Author kuma Posted November 1, 2010 Author Posted November 1, 2010 Yup, but without love there can really be no true commitment. Sorry, I meant marriage is not all about love and fun. Every marriage has ups and downs. I agree that there's no true commitment without love. My parents' marriage fell apart because of lack of commitment. That's why commitment is very important to me. It can make love stronger. Thanks for your post.
Dexter Morgan Posted November 1, 2010 Posted November 1, 2010 IMO, a cheating spouse can't be a good parent if he/she is betraying the mother/father of the children. But I also think that if a cheating spouse is a good parent to the children, he/she is a good parent. So my answer is yes and no. I'd like to know other people's opinions. Thanks. My answer is no as well. Not only are they betraying someone their children love, if they are out f###### other people, they aren't giving their time to their family. This is why I think, if infidelity can be proven, that the scales of custody in a divorce need to be tipped away from the cheater. Because in addition to the points above, they aren't a good role model for their kids.
karnak Posted November 1, 2010 Posted November 1, 2010 Sorry, I meant marriage is not all about love and fun. Every marriage has ups and downs. I agree that there's no true commitment without love. My parents' marriage fell apart because of lack of commitment. That's why commitment is very important to me. It can make love stronger. Thanks for your post. Everything in life should be done in a responsible manner. I think most marriages nowadays are done in a futile way. One or even both partners gets married without a mature idea about what a relationship and life-sharing really mean.
health Posted November 2, 2010 Posted November 2, 2010 Can a parent that has cancer still be a good parent--OF COURSE. Yes they may have to endure some unwell days--or time in treatment--but it does not change their ability to parent. If anything--while in my affair I was soooo happy--my children had a very happy mother--what child doesn't like a happy parent. Am i any worse an example to my children for wanting happiness and finding it than my husband is for neglecting our relationship for years and years as an example to my children--does that make him a better parent because he didn't have an affair?? I agree having an affair and "doing that" would not have been my choice in a perfect world but i really thought i was trying to be a "happier person" be going in a direction that overall I thought would make me the person I wanted and desired to be. Just like cancer you have to go through the chemo to come out a healthier person in the end. Would I "promote" having an affair--no but I will forever promote my children to do and be the happiest and content person they can be. Ya, but see then you teach your children to not have affairs if you want them to be happy. This is pleasure centered livng always bored with the high waiting on the next one. It kinda sucks that that was one of the best times of your life. Are you miserable these days or something?
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