is there any light at the end of the tunnel?

[iheartsuki]

I just moved across the country to where my long distance/long term bf of 2 years is living. We are both in our late 20's. He lives near a city I wanted to live/work in since before I even met him, so that was part of the driving force to moving up here.

 

However, we've been fighting a lot. We've pretty much always fought. We had an extremely rough summer before I came up here and broke up very briefly at one point. We've pretty much both considered the possibility that we're simply wrong for each other, but felt that many of our problems could have been caused by the distance + past baggage and plan on starting therapy together. I'm really afraid that we're just wrong though.

 

It just seems that at every turn there's a fight. And the worst part is that I feel that in our minds, the actual events happen completely differently. I know that's how it is for people in general - everyone's perception differs a little, but in this case, it almost seems extreme. He'll say something and forget he ever said it and when i try to convince him, he just denies it. Or he will do something that may or may not bother me, but if I do it, I'm basically condemned for it. When I point this out to him, he provides some explanation as to why it's different when he does it and I'm not comparing "apples to apples". I feel like the only times I get REALLY upset about something is when he doesn't take MY feelings seriously, yet it seems like his feelings must always be taken VERY seriously, even when it's obvious to others that he's being overly sensitive. Then I get very angry and refuse to back down until he takes MY feelings as seriously as he expects his to be taken and we will literally fight for days. Then I am the cause of our problems.

 

It seems like understanding is NEVER reached (permanently) and if it ever is, we always take the loooong, difficult route to get there. I don't think I'm asking much of him (to be understood/respected mutually/not have my feelings invalidated or minimized) and he feels he's not asking much of me (to feel appreciated/loved/like just being with him is enough), yet it seems like we both fall short always. I don't even know what I'm doing wrong most of the time, and it almost feels as if he's just not even trying to meet what I need.

 

We also have very different tastes in music and material objects and enjoy spending our time differently in a lot of ways. Our families and our backgrounds are completely different (his=outgoing, loud, extroverted, social vs. mine=intoverted,quiet,artisitc) which has caused some embarrassment on both sides and a lot of misunderstandings.

 

I'm really losing hope. Why is this so difficult? How can you be so wrong for someone? Why can't two people just understand each other and that's the end of it? We get each other in so many ways, yet in so many other ways...I don't know if we're just not letting go of enough of our pride or we legitimately don't understand each other. I just have a pit in my stomach ALL the time and this feeling that it's no longer a matter of IF but a matter of WHEN we will break up.

 

How do you know if you're truly wrong for each other? And, realistically, can a relationship that is difficult and often miserable turn around?

[iheartsuki]

There are also some other things that REALLY bother me....such as an emphasis on sex. I get that we're in a romantic relationship for a reason. But I feel like I'm never allowed to NOT be in the mood. Then I get resentful and feel even LESS in the mood. I do NOT enjoy feeling like I HAVE to have sex and have NO choice. I do enjoy having the freedom to WANT to have sex and would genuinely want it more if I didn't feel like I have no choice and have told him this...many times. Then he accuses me of withholding sex out of spite instead of listening to the explanation I just provided.

 

When the tables are turned, however, and we get into a fight but had planned on going out to eat or do something fun, he decides we're not going to do that anymore....because he "doesn't feel like it, anymore". When I point out that this seems eerily similar to the situation regarding sex but flipped, he does not make the connection and it is somehow different. In short, it's ok for him to withhold something because things aren't going the way he wants, but it's not ok for me to do the same.....even when that's not what I'm not doing!

 

If I reject sex...he gets mad, pouts, pressures, pesters and keeps coming onto me, asks WHY I'm not in the mood (repeatedly), compares us to other relationships, and I have noticed that when he DOES get sex, he is noticeably nicer to me afterward and the next day. If he doesn't, he withholds things more and is less willing to do other fun things that I suggest. He wants us "just being together" to be enough, but when I want exactly that, it's not enough for him unless we fit sex in there somewhere. And...I feel even more turned off by his pouty, immature behavior when I initially reject sex...and the cycle continues.

 

I feel like I'm expected to be happy/agreeable/ready to have sex anytime he wants it (and have told him this too).

I honestly feel like I just don't even know what the standards are in this relationship. Is it ok to be angry and not feel like doing something? Or is it wrong to do that? And is it ever ok to be too tired/depressed/bloated/hurt emotionally/or just plain NOT IN THE MOOD for sex? It seems that - usually - standards that apply to me DON'T apply to him.

 

It all just seems/feels too f*cked up to ever get better, we've been over this specific issue again and again since the beginning, and I feel so frustrated because most people (like his friends, parents, my parents, etc) don't see this side of him or any of these issues....a fact he is quick to point out to me ("no one else has ever told me this") and tells me he's exactly what other girls would want.

 

Ahhhhhh! Not really sure what I want from this additional post other than to vent, but if anyone has any advice or insight to offer here, I'll certainly accept that too!

[SincereOnlineGuy]

... well at least you know what makes him tick.

 

 

You have studied all the data and you clearly know the difference between him when you've allowed him the physical intimacy he seeks, vs. him after you've denied it.

 

I suppose many of the struggles you report could be related to the 'newness' of the location and your arrangement.

 

Being in your 'late 20's', it seems likely that you shouldn't be affected by factors mostly unique to late-teens/early-20's relationships, where they quite often just neeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed to experience dating others to gain perspective if nothing else.

 

It is difficult for us to get a clear snapshot of your scenario and we can't even really tell whether it is 'you' who MIGHT not be allowing enough sex.

 

I guess one might ask for clarity in this way:

 

At your ideal, how many times per week would you have sex with your bf?

 

At HIS ideal, how many times per week would you have sex with him?

 

Sometimes people just aren't compatible that way. I can't tell if your particular blow-by-blow accounts of the arguments and disagreements are mostly normal, or if indeed there is some special understanding to be gained from what you describe.

 

 

Step back and consider the big picture of your life. Is there a way that you now having the opportunity to live and work in that interesting city can motivate you to see this relationship along for a while? Or are you destined to pack-up and move back home IF you and your b/f call it quits tomorrow?

 

I'm hopeful that more time in the new locale will put you on a more even keel, to where 'all other things are equal', and you can better assess whether or not you belong with him.

 

Find a "stress test" online... and see if you score highly just because of the new home and new job?????

 

If so, then give it TIME...

[LoveLace]

Well it's a good step to decide on therapy together. I would give that a chance to see if it helps the two of you understand each other better....or not. I don't have any great advice except to say that in some ways...he sounds like a typcial male...in better words, sounds like a lot of the same complaints I hear other women have towards BFs or husbands. Anyway, I'm sure that therapy will help you both to explore all perspectives of things.

[iheartsuki]

Sincereonlineguy, that was a very thoughtful post, thank you. And thank you for taking the time to read both of my posts.

"It is difficult for us to get a clear snapshot of your scenario and we can't even really tell whether it is 'you' who MIGHT not be allowing enough sex."

 

A very valid point. I would say that my sex drive directly correlates to how resentful and/or unhappy I am feeling about the relationship. It's not something that I control or do out of spite (at least, not to my knowledge). It's like it simply goes into hiding until I feel happy/not resentful/loving again. And then I genuinely WANT to. Given that I feel resentful about something most of the time, it's really hard to say how much I would ideally want to have sex...since much of the time I just don't have the desire to even suppose that.

 

But typically, I would say maybe a couple times per week if regularly, but since my moods go up and down...maybe several nights in a row and then rest for awhile.

 

I asked him about this today, actually, because the first thing he mentioned when he came home was....you guessed it. His response was that he would prefer to have sex "most nights". So I asked "what if I only want to do that some nights?" to which he just shrugged and seemed a little let down.

 

But as I mentioned, if the circumstances were different....if I always felt that it's perfectly ok to be a human being who feels too tired or depressed or sick or just plain not in the mood....and I wasn't always EXPECTED to have sex whenever he wants it, I really think I would want to have sex more often. If I felt that he would be just as sweet and wonderful to me even if I don't have sex, instead of leaving me feeling like I have to have sex with him to be treated that well....I would feel less resentful and less hesitant to have sex that leads to treatment that feels artificial and conditional.

[iheartsuki]

"I don't have any great advice except to say that in some ways...he sounds like a typcial male...in better words, sounds like a lot of the same complaints I hear other women have towards BFs or husbands."

 

Lovelace, thank you. I have to admit that I have an internal battle going on....even though my ex (only other long term relationship) was a sleaze and a little bit psycho to boot....this is one area where I feel I was spoiled. Did he peacefully accept my rejection when I was not in the mood because he was emailing other girls and hooking up with them while he was with me? Not sure, but all that matters in my brain NOW is that I didn't know that at the time....so I'm left with the feeling that my dirtball ex was MORE respectful in that regard....and also with the feeling that the current bf is behaving out of the norm. But....maybe he's just behaving like any faithful male who gets sex from only one source. I don't know. :/

 

Not sure about all the other issues, though. The ex and I had plenty of fights, but they even seemed to go more smoothly than the ones I have with my current bf. Not really sure...but that sure doesn't seem too good. :/

[LoveLace]

"I don't have any great advice except to say that in some ways...he sounds like a typcial male...in better words, sounds like a lot of the same complaints I hear other women have towards BFs or husbands."

 

Lovelace, thank you. I have to admit that I have an internal battle going on....even though my ex (only other long term relationship) was a sleaze and a little bit psycho to boot....this is one area where I feel I was spoiled. Did he peacefully accept my rejection when I was not in the mood because he was emailing other girls and hooking up with them while he was with me? Not sure, but all that matters in my brain NOW is that I didn't know that at the time....so I'm left with the feeling that my dirtball ex was MORE respectful in that regard....and also with the feeling that the current bf is behaving out of the norm. But....maybe he's just behaving like any faithful male who gets sex from only one source. I don't know. :/

 

 

 

Not sure about all the other issues, though. The ex and I had plenty of fights, but they even seemed to go more smoothly than the ones I have with my current bf. Not really sure...but that sure doesn't seem too good. :/

 

 

 

Well, your Ex may have been more mature when it came to disagreements ...but not when it came to commitment, obviously. Sounds like your current BF might have this in reverse...

 

You would think a person shouldn't have to be taught how to consider and compromise with other people's feelings...but I think it's actually a pretty common scenario. Hopefully therapy will help him to see things from your side.

[iheartsuki]

Thanks, Lovelace! You know....they really ARE opposites. I've kind of always noticed it without really...noticing it...if that makes sense?! Ex was a big disgusting slob who left piles of dirty socks and garbage in front of the tv (true story), current bf is an extreme clean freak (he nitpicked at me today for a speck of frozen cheese falling on the floor when I made freezer pizza for dinner and made me pick it up and throw it out...ex would have let the pan the pizza was cooked on sit for days with crusties all over it). Total opposites...in so many ways.

 

I really want to let go of this kind of thinking, but it's really catching up with me more and more...and more. "Ex wouldn't have griped about that" or "ex would have appreciated this" or "ex would have understood" or "ex wouldn't have gotten mad about that" or "ex would want to do something like that would have thought it's FUN, not a hassle.."

 

.....AHHHHH. Ex was NO GOOD, I tell you. Why, stupid brain, why?

 

Lately, honestly...I hate this so much....and I'm gonna be REAL honest and say that p.m.s. could very well be involved (I hope), but I feel almost like I hate my bf. That sounds so terrible. But I look at him and feel more resentment than happiness, more anger than love and more annoyance than lightheartedness. Everything he says annoys me, pisses me off, or makes me worry. And THAT makes me worry. I keep fighting the thought that we're completely just ALL wrong for each other and fighting it hard. I'm not ready to face the reality that we could be wrong for each other but....

 

Anyone...is it at ALL normal to feel at ANY point, like you just about can't stand the person you're with....and still ultimately have a healthy relationship? :/

 

That sounds like a really bad question.

[iheartsuki]

Ok, not sure if I should just be starting a new thread but already I feel an overwhelming need to vent!!!! I feel SO angry right now, there is no one I can call this late and I don't talk to my friends much about problems anyway and, since this ties into all the same stuff, I figured why start a whole new thread.

 

Tried to talk to the boyfriend earlier about some of the things bothering me and...right on cue...he starts going for the privates....hand creeping down to the v-jay or up my shirt with me pushing his hands away and telling him to stop (which I have told him many many many many times, REALLY bothers me and makes me feel disrespected and like my feelings are not being taken seriously...to which usually he says -very solemnly- "you're right, I'm sorry" and then does it again the next time)....and also EXTREMELY infuriating for me...he makes jokes. I'm trying to talk to him about something serious...and he's effing making jokes. Usually very immature jokes about farting or poop or starts calling me pet names and pulling me down on the bed and then doing something silly like making a mustache with my hair or something. Anything but acknowledge what I say or take my feelings seriously. He is AMZINGLY mature in so many ways and sometimes is annoyingly old man-like...but then in times like this....it's like I'm dating an effing 7 year old. This sounds way harsh, but to think this is the same guy who is about to get a job with a fortune 500 company!

 

Company to BF: "So IHS's BF, what is your approach to negotiating conflict?"

 

BF to company: "Well, generally speaking, I ask the other party hypothetical questions involving poop, farting, or pooping while farting, start laughing before I can finish the question, disregard what anyone has to say, and if conflict continues to persist, I use key diplomatic phrases such as 'oh, come on' (with conviction) and grope for a vagina."

 

If only fortune 500 companies asked the pertinent questions.

 

And rewind to earlier today...I suggested making caramel apples as something fun/holiday-ish to do together since this is the first year in a long time I have actually had time to do fun, holiday things. "Too messy and you can buy them for the same price as making them. And you have to buy this and that and do all this work...". Oh. I guess I didn't realize that something fun was so....not fun. But you managed to find the not-fun AGAIN, bf.

 

SO...out of frustration I told him to lighten up and live a little and...well...this got thrown back at me just now when I told him he's not taking me seriously. I "wanted him to lighten up, right?".

 

I am so effing annoyed and just really, really feel like I CAN'T STAND HIM right now. And it would seem that the feeling is probably mutual. So I'm downstairs, on the couch, ranting my heart out while he's sleeping....I can't even be near him right now.

 

This just doesn't seem right, at all.

[Template]

IHK, my heart goes out to you, and it sounds like a really difficult time for you.

 

Judging by his actions, he displaying classical avoidance behavior with the use of his joking around - a defense mechanism. So ask yourself, why is he doing this? Is there some unknown history you don't know about? Or maybe, he is just too scared to face the fact that final conclusion may very well mean you two AREN'T meant for each other.

 

Now from the terms of him having sex. Well he's a guy, I'm a guy, all of us guys want to have sex. Why? 1. it feels good, and 2. because you aren't talking about these hard topics during sex. However, this never gives a guy/girl permission to force you to do anything you don't want to, either through physical, or psychological tactics.

 

Now let's stop with all the negativity as it has a habit of cycling in a circle, and it picks up steam with each rotation. Think about what's attracted you to him in the first place. Be honest with yourself - was it his looks? cologne? way he dressed? volunteer at a cat shelter? Whatever it is, think about it. Now, are you still attracted to them? yes? no? why? why not? For example: right now you feel resentful? Why? Is it because you cannot communicate? Did you used to communicate before, or was your relationship based on having fun? Or maybe you used to go out and have a lot of fun before, and maybe now you don't? Basically, look at what changed in your relationship. It could be him, or it could be you, or both.

 

I personally don't like seeing people breakup or seperated, if there is hope for the relationship, but I dislike less than seeing people stay in miserable relationships. Good luck and let us know how it goes.

[LoveLace]

I know this, you can still make caramel apples and he doesn't have to be on it if he doesn't want to

 

But stand your ground in wanting to be heard. I wouldn't directly advise using sex against him, but since it seems to be the game he plays, then why not. Tell him you do not want to be intimate until he has the mature conversation you are wanting to have...what he((

[iheartsuki]

Thank you both for your replies. I was out of town visiting a friend, so haven't been on the internet much. And I gotta say....I felt really happy and relaxed while with my friend. I laughed and had a good time. No crying (after crying every single day) and I didn't feel stressed or like I'm walking on eggshells....which I do all the time now...

 

Template, I'm not completely sure about his history before me. However, I know that his dad sometimes brushes off what his mom says about her feelings and is way too hard on her sometimes. He makes "that's a typical female for you" jokes and pokes fun at her too much, in my opinion, and often takes it too far. Though my bf agrees that his dad takes it too far sometimes, I see him doing this with me to a degree and I do NOT like it.

 

Also, my bf is on a mission now to 'look out for himself and HIS feelings'...as he puts it. When we started dating, I had recently come out of a 4 year long, mentally abusive relationship and was still recovering from it. I happened to meet my current bf while visiting a friend, we hooked up (I admit it), and then kept in touch. We started visiting each other, then started officially dating. I made my past known to him and made it clear that I needed to move at a slower pace and let my feelings naturally unfold. I also made sure he understood that I wasn't entirely sure I was ready for a relationship but that I really liked him so I would be willing to try. He seemed to understand, but still kept pushing me anyway to be where he was in the relationship (way ahead of me). He would then get angry and frustrated and tell me I'm not giving enough, I'm selfish, I'm not thoughtful, etc.

 

This led to immediate resentment at a) my original request not being respected and b) constantly being TOLD to love him and to show him that I love him, etc. He would often kill any genuine desire to do something sweet for him to show him I care because he was so busy TELLING me to. It honestly made me feel inadequate and defeated all the time.

 

So his resentment grew too, now here we are, and I'm trying to do better. But his attitude is different now. He is the one who, after accusing me of taking him for granted for so long, takes me for granted. He has an I-don't-care attitude now and does not treat my feelings (about much of anything) with the same respect as he expects his to be treated. In short, he's acting like kind of a douche bag.

 

And now, latest on the list, he seems to be going back on coming w/ me for thanksgiving to be with my family. I tried talking to him about it a couple nights ago, because we need to purchase tickets (I'm basically waiting for him before either of us buys anything) and he's simply avoiding the issue altogether with "we'll talk about it later"....and I honestly think it's b/c he's waiting for the tickets to get too expensive so he can stay here w/ his family. I don't know that for sure, of course, but he even saw me looking up tickets again and is completely ignoring the whole issue. And now, it's looking like I won't even be able to go home, by myself, b/c they are getting to be way too high. He sees his family every weekend, but can't be apart from them on thanksgiving...I hardly see mine at all now because I left them to be with him.

 

I am so heartbroken. I'm f*cking tired of feeling like I'm by myself in this relationship. I feel like we're an old married couple already, which is ironic, b/c he says that all the time in regards to sex. I can't even tell you right now what originally attracted me to him or what I find attractive about him right now b/c when I think about him I feel too filled with anger and heartache.

[iheartsuki]

Lovelace, I made caramel apples with my friends. I really wanted to do something like that with my bf, since, imo, that's a big part of why you have a bf....to do fun things you wouldn't do by yourself (aka a companion). But it was still fun. And gee, wouldn't ya know....there was hardly any mess!

 

And I've found that the games just don't work. They still happen, but they just don't work. He just plays them back. Also, I've noticed that he doesn't make connections about certain things. Sex and other things in our relationship are somehow connected when he wants/needs them to be to make HIS point, but if I make that connection FOR him....I'm talking about "two different things", or it's "not logical", or I'm "being unfair"....which usually is not tolerated and doesn't go unpunished in some way.

 

Basically, I can't ever win.

[LoveLace]

That's too bad...hopefully someone will eventually come along who makes you happier...