What is the source of all the bitterness here?

[MrNate]

I've been giving this some thought lately, and it seems like every single thread for some reason or another turns into a debate. I think I've finally figured out why.

 

I think, deep down, the issue stems from jealousy. Namely, jealousy of women from men. I mean lets think about it. How many times have we heard these phrases:

 

• Men have to work harder than women to find a date.
  
• Women have it easier when it comes to getting their sexual needs met (big one)
  
• A woman who had casual sex in the past is an issue
  
• Men have to go through many rejections, while the woman can be passive, therefore reserving her pride.
  
• A man has to supposedly be drop gorgeous to attract a woman, but a woman just has to look 'ok'.
  

And many more negative things. In no way am I accusing anyone of anything, but just look at all these negative subjects! I think this is why no thread turns out productive...because a lot of it stems from jealousy/resentment that women seem to have so many social advantages over men.

 

I mean some of the listed things may be true. But maybe not all of them. Why be bitter and focus on these things, instead of looking for the more positive side? Why the anger towards possible advantages the other gender MAY have?

 

I just feel like if we focused more on the brighter side of things, we would have better discussions. What say you?

[Untouchable_Fire]

• Men have to work harder than women to find a date.
  
• Women have it easier when it comes to getting their sexual needs met (big one)
  
• A woman who had casual sex in the past is an issue
  
• Men have to go through many rejections, while the woman can be passive, therefore reserving her pride.
  
• A man has to supposedly be drop gorgeous to attract a woman, but a woman just has to look 'ok'.
  

 

This is it for some guys, mostly inexperienced guys. I think the less vocal but larger group are men disenchanted with the enormous amount of poor behavior such as cheating that comes from the women in areas most posters live. We just don't have easy access to large numbers of quality women. Most where I live are just a hair away from baboons.

 

Also... it's frustrating for lots of guys who have been societally conditioned to act like little girls watch all the women ditch them for men who fight, are selfish, and don't respect women.

 

All that said... I like being a man. I don't mind anything on your list. I do avoid slutty women though.

[somedude81]

Yeah, I pretty much agree with MrNate's list.

 

Frankly I'm very jealous of women and I think they have too much power. There is no balance.

[AD1980]

I accept the social differences and how women have it easy where i get annoyed is when women tell Men who have problems with women to stop whining and that they have no reason to question things or give the cliche its all about CONFIDENCE when they have no idea what Men go through and face..

 

A women filtering out tons of Men to deicde who to go out with doesnt have the same plight as a struggling guy so its obnoxious of her to tell a guy hes dellusional or whatever when she has no idea what its like

Edited October 25, 2010 by AD1980

[TouchedByViolet]

I think a big part of bitterness stems from the lack of power people have over their lives. Especially love life. Sometimes the problem is with the individual but often it is just a manifestation of the environment and the nature of things.

 

Life is random and unfair. This can result in bitterness.

[MrNate]

See? Now we're getting somewhere here. Now we have to ask ourselves, is it fair to hold this sort of resentment? Why not choose to look at the brighter side of things instead?

 

Surely things can't be this bad.

[MrNate]

I accept the social differences and how women have it easy where i get annoyed is when women tell Men who have problems with women to stop whining and that they have no reason to question things or give the cliche its all about CONFIDENCE when they have no idea what Men go through and face..

 

A women filtering out tons of Men to deicde who to go out with doesnt have the same plight as a struggling guy so its obnoxious of her to tell a guy hes dellusional or whatever when she has no idea what its like

 

I understand man. Do me a favor though and think about why the women are suggesting that? What is complaining about your struggles really going to accomplish for you?

 

I think a lot of the lovely ladies here are simply saying to get whatever you can, working for you, and that a lot of that starts with believing in yourself. (i.e. confidence). I really don't think they're trying to be mean. Reaching out for pity or sympathy does absolutely nothing for you my friend. Why not take their advice to heart?

[Tim The Enchanter]

I don't think men's envy/jealousy of women is a big secret. I'll openly admit to it, although I think much of that has to do with personal frustration and low self esteem. For example, I work in a job that, whilst acceptable, is dull and provides me with zero means of meeting women (let alone making friends). When I was at university, I knew tons of women, but I lacked the nous and experience to make the most of it, even though I had a good time. Now I have some of that experience, but without the opportunity!! So frustrating.

 

Also, I have always been insecure over my looks. My friends and some women compliment me on my looks, but as a perfectionist I see my flaws and magnify them in my mind. I can't help comparing myself to those that I see as more perfect than I, and feeling slightly resentful.

 

So yes, I do sometimes feel bitter towards women, even though my lack of success is probably as much down to my circumstances, personality and self image as it has to do with modern women.

 

Having said that, I do think women today have more sexual power over men than in the past. I can't say that with authority, but given the power of the internet and media, I think it's self evident. Women are a massive commodity in the modern age, and many women know how to exploit this to their advantage.

[BlueRidgeMTs]

Yeah, I pretty much agree with MrNate's list.

 

Frankly I'm very jealous of women and I think they have too much power. There is no balance.

 

 

Personally the only advantage I think women clearly have is being able to get laid whenever they want. But, most women care more about finding LOVE..so that doesnt help much. It's true that men have to do more of the chasing, but hey, it seems men like it better that way. From what i've seen, its better if you let the guy come to YOU.

 

Plus, i dont buy the "women get to look ok and still attract a man" thing. Heck no! Maybe if he just wants to bang her and leave her. Because a lot of men would screw a a three legged goat with mange if they thought no one would find out.

 

But, for a real relationship, society is harder on the WOMAN to always look good. A guy can have a big ol beer belly and be going bald, but he wants his woman to look like a million bucks.

[TouchedByViolet]

See? Now we're getting somewhere here. Now we have to ask ourselves, is it fair to hold this sort of resentment? Why not choose to look at the brighter side of things instead?

 

Surely things can't be this bad.

 

Well it isn't healthy to hold resentment, but it's a NATURAL reaction. What do you mean by "brighter side of things"? Everyone's case is different.

[MrNate]

This is it for some guys, mostly inexperienced guys. I think the less vocal but larger group are men disenchanted with the enormous amount of poor behavior such as cheating that comes from the women in areas most posters live. We just don't have easy access to large numbers of quality women. Most where I live are just a hair away from baboons.

 

Also... it's frustrating for lots of guys who have been societally conditioned to act like little girls watch all the women ditch them for men who fight, are selfish, and don't respect women.

 

All that said... I like being a man. I don't mind anything on your list. I do avoid slutty women though.

 

I'm glad you see where I'm coming from, Untouchable. My hope is that instead of lashing out, some of us men can internalize this, and focus on bettering ourselves and our situation, day by day.

[EasyHeart]

I think a lot of it is denial. And not wanting to admit that men and women are different.

 

The typical pattern I see is something like this:

 

1. A man asks a question aimed at women.

2. Women answer honestly.

3. Men don't like what the women say, so they start whining "That's not fair!"

4. Gender war ensues, with men screaming "Women should be the way I want them to be!" and women screaming "You have psychological issues!"

 

and

 

1. A woman asks a question aimed at men.

2. Men answer honestly.

3. Women don't like what the men say, so they start screaming "You're sexist!"

4. Gender war ensues, with women screaming "Men should be the way I want them to be!" and men screaming "Deal with reality!"

[MrNate]

Well it isn't healthy to hold resentment, but it's a NATURAL reaction. What do you mean by "brighter side of things"? Everyone's case is different.

 

I respect that. Even so, if everyone's case is different, how does focusing solely on the negatives improve anything?

[sweetjasmine]

Women are a massive commodity in the modern age, and many women know how to exploit this to their advantage.

 

As with just about everything, there are two sides to this. Being treated like a commodity is no f-ing picnic, either.

 

Everyone has their struggles. I could sit here and stew in resentment thinking about how men don't have to worry about being groped, assaulted, and raped, but what's the point? Why bother? Obsessing over the advantages that other people have that you don't isn't going to help you get anywhere.

[AD1980]

I understand man. Do me a favor though and think about why the women are suggesting that? What is complaining about your struggles really going to accomplish for you?

 

I think a lot of the lovely ladies here are simply saying to get whatever you can, working for you, and that a lot of that starts with believing in yourself. (i.e. confidence). I really don't think they're trying to be mean. Reaching out for pity or sympathy does absolutely nothing for you my friend. Why not take their advice to heart?

 

I think with us Men were told its not Manly to vent and we must hold things inside all the time were women are allowed to vent so Mens may come out a little harsher from all the years of holding it in..

 

On here is the only place where we can vent and let some of our feelings out anonymously and we still get ****..

 

I dont think one should vent and look for sympathy all the time but once in awhile i think its human to do it.We all hurt at times nd just need a place to vent i dont see anyhting wrong with it..

[AD1980]

 

Having said that, I do think women today have more sexual power over men than in the past. I can't say that with authority, but given the power of the internet and media, I think it's self evident. Women are a massive commodity in the modern age, and many women know how to exploit this to their advantage.

 

I think thast a decent point but i think thats Mens fault..

 

Men will hit on anything and to me its overly inflated the ego of these average women and the average guy is having a harder time getitng a women near his leve becasue shes holding out for something better becasue of all the times she was hit on..

[TouchedByViolet]

I respect that. Even so, if everyone's case is different, how does focusing solely on the negatives improve anything?

 

Well, I think once frustration reaches the point of bitterness improvement is a distant after thought. It is common for people to cycle between bitterness and self-improvement though; making some level of progress over time.

 

I could sit here and stew in resentment thinking about how men don't have to worry about being groped, assaulted, and raped, but what's the point?

 

I've had 250+ lb women harass me and grab my ass lol.

[Tim The Enchanter]

I think thast a decent point but i think thats Mens fault..

 

Men will hit on anything and to me its overly inflated the ego of these average women and the average guy is having a harder time getitng a women near his leve becasue shes holding out for something better becasue of all the times she was hit on..

 

Oh without a doubt it's the fault of men, that's the great irony. Personally I find lads' mags (e.g. Loaded, FHM, Maxim etc) crass and vacuous, but they have really given female celebrities a shot in the arm in terms of exposure (in more ways than one). For god's sake, Gail Porter (cute Scottish tv presenter) had a vast image of her naked self projected onto the side of the houses of parliament! THat's what I call exposure.

 

Was there anything like FHM's '100 Sexiest Women' a decade or so ago? Not really. Now it's become almost like the Oscars for hotties.

 

And now we have weekly lads' mags like Nuts and Zoo. Utter crap, but purchased in large quantities by the lager swilling louts that make up the bulk of the British male population.

Edited October 25, 2010 by Tim The Enchanter

[Woggle]

These guys are mad because everything they were taught growing up about women and love has turned out to be one big lie.

[youngskywalker]

Personally the only advantage I think women clearly have is being able to get laid whenever they want. But, most women care more about finding LOVE..so that doesnt help much.

 

That's actually a good point friend. How many women are actually finding this? Should be delude ourselves into thinking most of the women in the world find a man who they feel secure, satisfied and loved by? It's a VAST minority. The things women are getting and what they actually want or two different things. Maybe we shouldn't envy them at all but instead feel sorry for them.

[Woggle]

I honestly think that many women don't really give a crap about love. I am sorry but it is true. There is a huge gap between what women say and what women do.

[Tim The Enchanter]

That's actually a good point friend. How many women are actually finding this? Should be delude ourselves into thinking most of the women in the world find a man who they feel secure, satisfied and loved by? It's a VAST minority. The things women are getting and what they actually want or two different things. Maybe we shouldn't envy them at all but instead feel sorry for them.

 

That's as much a generalisation as saying all men want to do is screw. I think you should go to any town or city in the UK on a Friday night, and take a look around. You know what you'll see? Lots and lots of women who don't give a toss about romance, soulmates and happy ever after, at least not at that point in their lives. No, modern women are empowered. Not only can they live their lives perfectly well without the aid of men, they can also get sex wherever and whenever they want it.

[MrNate]

I think with us Men were told its not Manly to vent and we must hold things inside all the time were women are allowed to vent so Mens may come out a little harsher from all the years of holding it in..

 

On here is the only place where we can vent and let some of our feelings out anonymously and we still get ****..

 

I dont think one should vent and look for sympathy all the time but once in awhile i think its human to do it.We all hurt at times nd just need a place to vent i dont see anyhting wrong with it..

 

I like what you posted here. So my question is, at what point should you decide to make a complete change? When would it be the right time to say 'ok, my life it not what I want it to be right now, so I'm going to put it on my shoulders to get the things I want'? I feel like there is nothing more manly than asking ourselves that question. And not only asking ourselves that, but acting on it.

 

I also really don't see the women snapping at the men. It usually happens after some broad generalization is made about them, and after they've been through it so much, it gets kind of hard for them to be nice about it.

 

See where I'm coming from?

[AD1980]

I like what you posted here. So my question is, at what point should you decide to make a complete change? When would it be the right time to say 'ok, my life it not what I want it to be right now, so I'm going to put it on my shoulders to get the things I want'? I feel like there is nothing more manly than asking ourselves that question. And not only asking ourselves that, but acting on it.

 

I also really don't see the women snapping at the men. It usually happens after some broad generalization is made about them, and after they've been through it so much, it gets kind of hard for them to be nice about it.

 

See where I'm coming from?

 

Sometimes you dont know what to change and sometimes theres things you cant change like looks..

 

My looks im insecure about[facially] and its nothing i can change..

 

I gues my other problem is im deathly afraid of rejection and unable to find common ground to approach a girl i dont know..

 

AS far as what point I should make a change? Should have been years ago but i havent yet and if its so easy for me it would have ben done by now..

[AD1980]

 

I also really don't see the women snapping at the men. It usually happens after some broad generalization is made about them, and after they've been through it so much, it gets kind of hard for them to be nice about it.

 

See where I'm coming from?

 

Ehh it works both ways to be brutally honest i just think when a women does it on here its more accepted and shes more coddled where a Man will be lambasted..

 

Plus when a generalazation about a women is made allot of women seem to be overly sensitive about it instead of realizing it really isnt about them and its just a frustrated person venting who doesnt mean everything he typed....