desertIslandCactus Posted October 31, 2010 Posted October 31, 2010 Three greatest stresses: Death, divorce, moving ..
jthorne Posted October 31, 2010 Posted October 31, 2010 Mmmm, son is at rugby practice. How the hell is he affected by something he is not aware of? I find this very interesting.... And also, thanks JT for 'not judging', but in my past live-in relationship with 3 teen kids between us we were constantly trying to find new creative ways to carve out some 'us-time' so it has nothing at all to do with married or not! *shrug* I was just going by the example you posted. Kids eventually find out about the infidelity, illustrated by this thread. So the lesson taught here is that mommy (or daddy) thinks it's okay to cheat to get what you want.
jthorne Posted October 31, 2010 Posted October 31, 2010 Three greatest stresses: Death, divorce, moving ..You forgot taxes. Oops, wrong board.
bentnotbroken Posted October 31, 2010 Posted October 31, 2010 Didn't appear in the quote I used. Unfortunate. Yes in the multiple pages I said it more than a few times. 20 affairs he sucks as a husband, father and human.
pureinheart Posted October 31, 2010 Posted October 31, 2010 My father was a serial adulterer - I can honestly say that none of his children would have had a particular problem with his infidelity per se - we are all mature enough to recognise that physical/emotional needs are not necessarily met in one relationship and that lifelong monogamy is simply not possible or even desirable for a lot of people. However, what was far, far worse than a few flings was the inflated ego that went with the infidelities - obviously thinking he was a bit of a stud when nearly everyone else, including his wife, just thought he was a bit - immature. Most definitely the worst thing was him finally leaving the marital home to sort his head out and effectively cutting contact with his children. Being an effective parent has got little if anything to do with one's sex life. Maybe, it was less to do with immaturity and more to do with an extremely low self esteem. He needed the attention from women to "complete" him, but that is usually short lived, as it dies quickly. I remember on one of the projects at work I was out on the floor and got a lot of possitive reinforcement from the women and men...it was a lot of possitive attention. I got laid-off (you know what, not sure if that's the correct spelling...I've got a cold right now) and went through a withdrawl period...no more attention...at that point I realised I needed to be ok with me "alone". He had to have approval. Hey you have a very good grasp on reality BTW....
desertIslandCactus Posted October 31, 2010 Posted October 31, 2010 You forgot taxes. Oops, wrong board. Tell me about it ... If I were writing the three stresses rule, I would definitely put money before moving ..
fooled once Posted November 1, 2010 Posted November 1, 2010 As a child of an adulterer, it was particularly brutal to catch him (not by stalking or anything, just by him being stupid and leaving his "affairs" in the open." So much so that even though I didn't tell my mother (I didn't think she would believe me) she found out the same day. Watching my mother fall apart while my father languished in his self-entitlement was disgusting. I would not want to associate with someone like that. In truth, it was just an extension of the entitled attitude he had exhibited towards us my whole life. I also ended up meeting his mistress and she told me that "his whole family turned against him, including you." I found this ridiculous. He had never cared about what I thought about him, he had never cared about what I did in my life, except if he wanted to shame me or let me know what a failure I was and how I didn't measure up. As if I turned against him and made him some kind of victim! I have seen things like this on the board and I truly think it is how these guys justify their affairs and pull themselves closer to the OW, by being the victim. My father quickly went back to my mother and has gone through a lot of counseling since. It seems like his attitude and the way he treats others has gone through a massive change. I am glad that he is less of an irritant in my life, but that's it. We never developed a bond and his health is poor now. Good on him for taking a liking to my child, but no, he will never be my "hero." Seriously OW, use your head! If he never had the respect to stop cheating on the woman his was married to for over 30 years and has children with, if he was never man enough to pour all of the effort that it must have taken to have the affairs and put it back into his marriage, what makes you think that you are so special? What makes you think he will stand by you in any capacity, clearly having a long history together won't make a difference. dreaming I am so sorry about your father and his complete self centered attitude. I am sorry any child has to go through this. And we wonder why our kids today are the way they are Can we PLEASE stop the picking and get back to the point of this thread??? NO ONE is perfect. EVERYONE sins. Adultery IS illegal in some US states. Kids are ALLOWED to be pissed off at parents who choose to cheat. They are entitled to feel that way. They are also allowed to NEVER speak to that parent again. Just because a person is your parent does NOT mean you have to like them or respect them. When someone continually does crappy things to people, and have NO regard for others and doesn't care who they hurt as long as they get what they want -- in MY view -- they are crappy people who I wouldn't want in my life. Those are toxic people who will only continue to hurt others because they believe they can. I stand by my view that if a person is unhappy in a marriage - DIVORCE is always the better option vs cheating. Since it has been brought up - divorce rates: http://www.aboutdivorce.org/us_divorce_rates.html Divorce rate statistics of 1st, 2nd and 3rd marriages:Various studies on US Divorce rate show significant differences when a comparison is made in 1st, 2nd and 3rd marriage, divorce rate in America. Divorce rate in America after first marriage is from 41% to 50%.US divorce rate after second marriage is from 60% to 67%After 3 marriages the US divorce rate is from 73% to 74% also http://www.divorcerate.org/ The divorce rate in America for first marriage is 41% The divorce rate in America for second marriage is 60% The divorce rate in America for third marriage is 73% Seems both sites have relatively the same numbers OP - if you ever come back to this thread, my advice to you is to leave his children's feelings alone. They are allowed to feel how they want and his actions have shown he has little regard for women in general and for commitment. He seems like either he has an over-blown ego OR he is suffering for major self esteem issues. If I had to guess from what you have said, he is an ego-maniac since he has no regard for boundaries, commitment, respect or honesty. To go so far as to cheat with his wife's best friend is proof in my view that his ego is out of control. He has had over 20 affairs .... be careful of that. You may be young, but he has shown he doesn't understand the word faithful and as you age, his ego will IMHO only hurt you because he will want to see if he can have sex with someone who is 30 years younger than him. It seems to be a game to him. I fear you are going to be one of the casualties of his ego. Maybe he has changed? Maybe he has stated how wrong he was to cheat like he did. Maye he is remorseful. Lots of maybe's. Not sure I would want to hitch my life onto his and take the chance that NOW he has changed and he knows how to be faithful. But it is your life and only you can decide if you are willing to risk being with him. Good luck
Silly_Girl Posted November 1, 2010 Posted November 1, 2010 *shrug* I was just going by the example you posted. Kids eventually find out about the infidelity, illustrated by this thread. So the lesson taught here is that mommy (or daddy) thinks it's okay to cheat to get what you want. The example I posted said nothing about cheating, your mind read it that way
jthorne Posted November 1, 2010 Posted November 1, 2010 The example I posted said nothing about cheating, your mind read it that way Oh, I'm sorry. I thought your boyfriend was married. My bad. Apologies.
Silly_Girl Posted November 1, 2010 Posted November 1, 2010 Her mind read it that way because that is the context of the discussion. I read it the same way, and what... are you saying otherwise? If you're talking about something different you should clarify. Son thinks I'm off to yoga, but I've booked a steamy sesh... how does that impact his welfare? The context of the recents posts is indeed aimed at parents who cheat, my point is that there are many things parents may or may not be doing that will/might/don't impact on the childhood of our offspring. I think posters here have been too skewed/closed-minded. That's all.
dreamingoftigers Posted November 1, 2010 Posted November 1, 2010 Being an effective parent has got little if anything to do with one's sex life.[/QUOTE] Disagree completely. Your sex life is the strongest indication of your character. (Not sure why the quote was quoted like this, but I disagree with the second quote.) You are definitely entitled to your opinion, but that doesn't make YOUR opinion correct. Of course not, and nowhere did I say in any frame of reference that my opinion was the only valid one in the world. I think most people would take issue with someone's sex life being the strongest indication of someone's character. Actions, not SEX, are the strongest indication of someone's character. Especially when no one's looking. And there are plenty of married people who have never cheated but enjoy sex with each over and probably have what you consider "over-inflated" sex lives. Your statement then means that they are of low character. Really? Over-inflated did not refer to frequency, it referred simply to having too many people sharing the marital bed. If I could get sex twice a day everyday, I would not consider that to be over-inflated. Sex is a wonderful experience between two consenting adults. It has nothing to do with parenting. I would say that a father or mother that put their sexual wants before the emotional/physical well-being of their family would make them a less then ideal parent. People who have never cheated can be bad parents. Absent, work-aholic, overspending, overeating, gambling, alcoholic, depressed, on the computer all the time: all conditions that contribute to being a less than stellar parent. Yet they put the M at risk as well. These would be more factors that would lower the quality of a parent to a child. As I'm reading these threads I am surprised by the sheer "I'm a better parent than..." I never said it. In fact I often worry about my dysfunctional upbringing having an affect on my daughter. She is already not in ideal situation. Being a parent myself I make mistakes. I try to do the best I can with the information I have available but I can't fathom the prideful responses contained on these threads. We are talking about children here. Our little (or maybe not so little) loves. If my children's father fails in an area, I pick up the slack. I don't pat myself on the back and say to myself "you are the superior parent." I love my children and they will be successful and happy in life with their parents doing what needs to be done. They benefit from the love of BOTH parents. I love my kids, I love my H and I love our very healthy sex life. But my sex life has nothing to do with my kids and has no part in my ability to parent them. And that is where we can agree to disagree. GEL The first post shows the affect that a parent's "sex life" can have on children. Even grown children. To put children in a position where they have to see their mother being abandoned is not a good way to live.
dreamingoftigers Posted November 1, 2010 Posted November 1, 2010 Son thinks I'm off to yoga, but I've booked a steamy sesh... how does that impact his welfare? The context of the recents posts is indeed aimed at parents who cheat, my point is that there are many things parents may or may not be doing that will/might/don't impact on the childhood of our offspring. I think posters here have been too skewed/closed-minded. That's all. I would say that that would be a sex-life secret that wouldn't cause your child shame. Hardly the same as having 20 affairs and then abandoning your family.
PhoenixRise Posted November 1, 2010 Posted November 1, 2010 Son thinks I'm off to yoga, but I've booked a steamy sesh... how does that impact his welfare? The context of the recents posts is indeed aimed at parents who cheat, my point is that there are many things parents may or may not be doing that will/might/don't impact on the childhood of our offspring. I think posters here have been too skewed/closed-minded. That's all. I have read this entire thread but perhaps I am missing something.. Of course if a parent goes to a yoga class or even schedules a night of hot sexx with a partner it is not going to have a negative impact on the children. At least not as long as the kids needs are met. But IMO the context where bad parenting was raised was in response to some posters assuming that the reason the adult children turned on the CS was because the BS somehow manipulated them into doing so. So other posters pointed out that in light of this serial cheater's multiple affairs including an affair with his wife's best friend, he was likely not the best parent. There is no way a person could put in the time, resources and energy to have 20+ affairs and still have the time resources and energy to be a good parent. Not to mention the level of lying and deception necessary to cheat at this level. My father was a serial cheater. My mother NEVER said a word against him. She never had to.
Silly_Girl Posted November 1, 2010 Posted November 1, 2010 The first post shows the affect that a parent's "sex life" can have on children. Even grown children. No. What a child sees and is exposed to effects them. Not their parents sex life. Chatting to my boyfriend last night, he seems to think his parents shagged 3 times (he and his siblings were conceived) whereas my sister and I grew up cheesed off with burying our heads under pillows to muffle the noise whilst our parents 'enjoyed their privacy'. Can't imagine any of you up in arms about either of those relationships. However, if I told you my mother was banging away with next door's husband, or my boyfriend's parents barely honked because his secretary was meeting all his sexual needs I bet there'd be many claims of damage inflicted on 'poor children' and the selfishness of the parents. It's not the sex life. It's the moral code they live by and whether they a) keep it well away from the kids and b) cause trauma to the household by way of their actions. There's a perspective on this. Just because cheating is wrong doesn't mean all children who encounter cheating suffer significantly.
dreamingoftigers Posted November 1, 2010 Posted November 1, 2010 I am changing what I originally posted to better fit the community guidelines: "If you are someone who cannot commit to life-long monogamy then don't get married and don't have children. Prioritze what is right for you without dragging down others" Now - what is the divorce rate in the USA - 50% - so how many people find it quite difficult to stick with the monogamy model? Does that not tell you something about lifelong monogamy? It tells me something about the current US attitude towards marriage. Or do you subscribe to the Saudi Arabian model - you know, the one that says infidelity is fine for a man, but which stones the woman to death? Now where did we find this disconnect from logic. I think my stance is pretty clear, if you cannot look at the lifelong decision you are making, weigh and measure the options, and make a rational decision, then perhaps holding off on marriage it the best course of action. If you have married into an unworkable situation, instead of making it even more messy, the best thing to do would be to extricate yourself from it. (If the OP's MM had done that, he may well have retained the respect of his children and they would probably still want to take to him.) If that makes me self-righteous in your books, then crown me Queen of Self-Righteousness. By the way, I have never been unfaithful, not because I am any kind of paragon of the virtues, THANK GOD, but because I am a low risk kind of person. I have never been unfaithful because 1) I do not wish to have my spouse feel the way I felt (unlike the OP's MM who cheated multiple times, even with the wifes friend) 2) I want my daughter to know that I respected her family enough not to risk it (unlike the OP's MM who risked his family and then eventually left it, showing his children that he did not respect their family) 3) I know that when I am tempted to cheat it means that there is something missing in my relationship with my spouse and then I need to address it with him first. (I highly doubt the OP's MM did this due to the amount of affairs he had over the span of his marriage.) 4) I will not do something like that, that I consider personally shaming. (Apparently this MM did not hold the same belief.) 5) It would not be fair to the other partner to be dragged in, in any way, into my marital issues by using him for sex, affection, or an emotional dumping ground. How I deal with my feelings is my responsibility. (Again the MM has dragged his OW into his issues by telling her about how he no longer feels like "a hero" to them anymore. OP, what makes this man so attractive after what he has put his family through? I would say the very best thing to do would be to instruct him to go and clean up the mess he made before having any further relationship with you until he has gotten over the fallout from his family. He isn't even going to be able to be fully present with you until he has settled this.
Silly_Girl Posted November 1, 2010 Posted November 1, 2010 I would say that that would be a sex-life secret that wouldn't cause your child shame. Hardly the same as having 20 affairs and then abandoning your family. Not saying it is. Just challenging the generalisation that all infidelity impacts on the children, or that an adult's sex life effects a child's world.
dreamingoftigers Posted November 1, 2010 Posted November 1, 2010 Err - yes, I elected to bring my family background into this. No doubt like most family backgrounds it is- hugely flawed - THANK GOD FOR THAT!!! With all our warts and all we get along okay. If my father elected to have a little bit on the side - oh well what the hell - SO WHAT - to be honest my mother was probably hugely relieved.... Maybe not getting on others about responding to your family background would make a little more sense. Especially since you brought it up. Apparently the OP's MM's wife didn't feel the relief. Neither did his children.
Fieldsofgold Posted November 1, 2010 Posted November 1, 2010 . . . Now - what is the divorce rate in the USA - 50% - so how many people find it quite difficult to stick with the monogamy model? Does that not tell you something about lifelong monogamy? It tells me something about the current US attitude towards marriage. . . . Not that it matters, but since we're so far off topic anyway, and the OP has left th building - the Centers for Disease Control recently published a study about that 50% divorce rate - said that it was not an accurate figure and was misleading. I don't remember all the details now, but the fiure includes people under the age of 25 who marry (they have a high divorce rate), includes individuals who have been divorced multiple times, and other data that skews the results. They state emphatically that 50% of all marriages do notnend in divorce, not even close. There is apparently a small subset for whom that is true. Just FYI, if anyone cares. (I have no clue why the CDC studies divorce rates, apparently it is a health risk - but I would consider their data reliable)
dreamingoftigers Posted November 1, 2010 Posted November 1, 2010 . . . Not that it matters, but since we're so far off topic anyway, and the OP has left th building - the Centers for Disease Control recently published a study about that 50% divorce rate - said that it was not an accurate figure and was misleading. I don't remember all the details now, but the fiure includes people under the age of 25 who marry (they have a high divorce rate), includes individuals who have been divorced multiple times, and other data that skews the results. They state emphatically that 50% of all marriages do notnend in divorce, not even close. There is apparently a small subset for whom that is true. Just FYI, if anyone cares. (I have no clue why the CDC studies divorce rates, apparently it is a health risk - but I would consider their data reliable) This is true, I have read an overall average is 37% and that each time period was different as well. In the 1970's it was overall 54%, but then those who married in the 80s, it was only 19% which is a huge difference. If course it is simply possible that those married in the 80s have simply not got around to divorcing yet, or they all divorced in the 70s and then remarried in the 80s and didn't want to go through all of that again.
dreamingoftigers Posted November 1, 2010 Posted November 1, 2010 Dreaming of - I will make comments about my father, thank you very much. You don't know him, or me so I suggest you keep your moralising to yourself. What is it like being a paragon of the virtues by the way? You do realize that this is an opinion board, right? Of course I don't know him and I wouldn't be able to tell you if he was a "good" or a "bad" man even if I did know him. What I can tell you is that being an adulterer is not a good way to be a part of a family and that is behaviour that doesn't help anyone. Btw, being a paragon of sexual virture is a heck of a lot less stressful then being a paragon of a lack of sexual virtue. Just ask the OP's MM who has lost the respect and admiration of his children. Yes, my father was pretty crap - although I have forgiven him and we get on fine. He was not crap because he was unfaithful though. The unfaithful part is merely a symptom of the overall attitude towards family, as in not having enough respect for your children to not risk them having to go through a divorce or a wounded parent's depression and misery, not to mention the children finding out. My Dad was crap long before the adultery came out. The OP's MM was probably similar to his children or they would have probably had enough grounds to want him in their life still. By the way, I have to say that the single most unattractive trait I find in anyone, man, woman or child is - self-righteousness. I would rather be married to an adulterer than someone who is wholly self-righteous. Since you seem to think I am self-righteous, does this mean the wedding is off? Grandma will be so disappointed. Children are smarter than we all think and can catch on very quickly to something being out of place. Even if they can't articulate it. No child should have to have that sick to the stomach feeling of dread. That is why folks who cannot commit to their families should reconsider having one.
pureinheart Posted November 1, 2010 Posted November 1, 2010 Son thinks I'm off to yoga, but I've booked a steamy sesh... how does that impact his welfare? The context of the recents posts is indeed aimed at parents who cheat, my point is that there are many things parents may or may not be doing that will/might/don't impact on the childhood of our offspring. I think posters here have been too skewed/closed-minded. That's all. SG, It doesn't impact his welfare. What you do on your time is your business. From what I have read, your a very good parent. You have a good job and I'm sure he has more than enough of what he needs monetarily and emotionally. You know how you picture a poster and their family that is spoken of and stuff...this is what I pictured you to be: Very attractive, well dressed, always clean and your son likewise...actually I pictured you a clean freak???? Is that true???
pureinheart Posted November 1, 2010 Posted November 1, 2010 If we're using this example, I'd say because the hot sex "boyfriend" is married, and sets what many in society would consider a poor example for your son. Not judging, just saying. Children take ques from their parents on appropriate behavior. I have yet to see you not judge (just saying), although that is besides the point. Society deems many things inappropriate. "Society" is made up of individuals. These individuals are all imperfect, continually setting some "poor example" for their children or others.
greengoddess Posted November 1, 2010 Posted November 1, 2010 Son thinks I'm off to yoga, but I've booked a steamy sesh... how does that impact his welfare? So basically you get in the habit of just lying to your kids. The lies become a part of your life. Why do you want to live a lie?
GreenEyedLady Posted November 1, 2010 Posted November 1, 2010 So basically you get in the habit of just lying to your kids. The lies become a part of your life. Why do you want to live a lie? Why do you think that kids need to even KNOW about their parent's sex life? It's none of their business. Do you tell your kids you're going to bang their dad instead of "talking" upstairs? Or are you in the habit of living a lie too? GEL
Silly_Girl Posted November 1, 2010 Posted November 1, 2010 So basically you get in the habit of just lying to your kids. The lies become a part of your life. Why do you want to live a lie? Hell yes, I'd lie to my kid. Mostly about what a %^&*$ his dad is!! And even more about the stepmother from hell who I'd like to throw in the ocean! Sometimes I say that I think an outcome at school is fair when I personally think it isn't, that's lying. I lie when I act cool and chilled when I walk through the door of an evening and have actually sat in my work car park and cried for ten minutes before driving home because I've had the biggest bitch of a day ever and need to release some stress. I've lied about needing urgent study time when actually it was a rouse to get my son's dad to turn up and spend some time with him for a change! "The lies become a part of your life". He's my son, not my conscience!!! I protect my son as well as care for him. For the record, I hate lies in principle. But yes, I'll lie to my son when I decide it's appropriate. Perhaps I should have told him when he was 2 and putting his sack out for Santa on Dec 24th that it was all a big fat untruth? Honesty rules? You're an extremely judgmental person, GG. Out of interest, does it have any roots in infidelity?
Recommended Posts