One an F-buddy always an F-buddy

[EasyHeart]

I guarantee you that EVERY SINGLE PERSON you have had a relationship with would be considered ****able but not datable by someone... so that is a really stupid criteria for determining the worth of anyone in the dating pool as you are simply self-selecting yourself out of it. Why do you give two craps if some unknown person doesn't think a person you are dating is datable especially when you don't even have any knowledge of the reason behind that decision? How on Earth can that be any type of measure for what you should think of them?

Because every person is the best judge of their own character. A woman who doesn't consider herself "worthy" of a real relationship is probably right.

 

She is effectively telling the OP that her doctor-F-buddy was highly desirable, so she settled for being his FWB in order to be with him; and that the OP is less desirable, so he must provide her with all the trappings of a relationship before she is willing to be with him.

[porter218]

 

If someone views sex as very "casual..." just for kicks... the kind of act you have with some guy who won't bother to take you to dinner or acknowledge your child...

 

Don't you think that that kind of person might be likely to view, for example, an extramarital affair as simply sex - and not infidelity?

No. I am faithful to a fault but I had 2 FWB prior to my M. I found it to be very insignificant and not note worthy. My career was extremely demanding at the time and I was basically married to my career, so no time to give a to a proper R. I had my first FWB for maybe 8months or a year...IDK, I really didn't keep track because he wasn't important to me. the next was was for maybe 3 months. I didn't want to be all the way alone but I knew it wouldn't be fair for me to date someone when I couldn't give them enough of me. It was just someone to sleep with at night when I was in town and someone to talk to...and have sex with. We would have dinner every now and again but my time was so limited that I usually wouldn't be in town or done with work till so late that he would come over after 10pm when I was free. I didn't have any strong feelings for these guys and when my life allowed me the time to give someone I soon stopped seeing him for a real bf. I am not a cheater at all though. throughout my Rs after this I didn't think this was worth telling them because it was so insignificant I had practically forgotten about them because so little time was spent with them. I may have mentioned in passing I had seen a guy during this period I was living in 3 states but I never saw the parameters of these 'Rs' to be important enough to talk about.

My gf repeatedly tells me that the 2 to 3 years she spent having sex with her doctor friend was so insignificant... that she didn't think it was worth telling me about - even though she had sex with him after we started dating.

That is the only part of this where I understand your concern. That is something she really should have told you. Were you two also having sex at this point or were you just going out on dates? Maybe she didn't know it was going to become serious with you (not that that is an acceptable excuse though). How long was she still having sex with this guy while dating you? At what point does she claim to have stopped? And do you believe that she really stopped sleeping with him?

 

I do find it hard to believe that within two years he didn't take her to dinner at all. Thats just odd.

[theBrokenMuse]

Because every person is the best judge of their own character. A woman who doesn't consider herself "worthy" of a real relationship is probably right.

That's not what he said in what I quoted, please re-read. He said this doctor thought she was okay to screw but not date so because some stranger made that assessment about his girlfriend then why should she be considered datable by him... that is flawed logic simply for the fact that every single person is going to have been given the same assessment by SOMEONE. Therefore if you accept the aforementioned train of thought you have self-selected yourself out of the dating pool by default because there isn't a single human being alive that will meet that criteria.

 

Secondly, because someone makes a choice does not state what they think they are worthy of. It simply states what they are willing to accept at that time in accordance to what their needs are at the moment. So, if she wasn't looking or wanting emotional intimacy at the time and did not want to sleep with a lot of strangers a long term **** buddy would have been the suitable situation for her. If she wants emotional intimacy then an actual relationship would be a better fit. Also, there are plenty of people with low self-esteem who think they are worthy of very poor treatment (ie. abuse) when they are not so what you stated is really rather silly.

 

She is effectively telling the OP that her doctor-F-buddy was highly desirable, so she settled for being his FWB in order to be with him; and that the OP is less desirable, so he must provide her with all the trappings of a relationship before she is willing to be with him.

Anyone who considers a relationship (ie. emotional intimacy along with the sexual) "trappings" probably should take a while to assess if they really want to even be in one. Edited October 25, 2010 by theBrokenMuse

[Knittress]

Anyone who considers a relationship (ie. emotional intimacy along with the sexual) "trappings" probably should probably take a while to assess if they really want to even be in one.

 

Agreed. I'm a little disheartened by all the talk in this thread which implies that men only seek out emotional connections with others in order to get their physical needs met, as if the idea of 'relationship' were some torture-method invented by women, but generally seen as pointless. Thankfully I know they're not all like that...

[porter218]

 

She is effectively telling the OP that her doctor-F-buddy was highly desirable, so she settled for being his FWB in order to be with him; and that the OP is less desirable, so he must provide her with all the trappings of a relationship before she is willing to be with him.

 

huh???

I don't get that. My last bf and I ended things this past May when i realized our life plans were not compatible. I care for him a lot and in every other way he was perfect for me. Sex was fantastic, he was extremely attractive, wealthy, and tons of fun. After we agreed to stop dating he said that maybe we could be FWB because he didn't want to loose me all the way and really enjoyed sex with me. I turned him down on the 'B' part of FWB because of the fact I have feelings for him. I would almost say I love this guy but I can't just downgrade and have sex with him because I find him so perfect for me that I know it would hurt and confuse me to continue a sexual R with him knowing it can't go anywhere. But if another guy I didn't find to be such a perfect match wanted to be FWB I would be more likely to consider it with them then I would my x... because if I don't have strong feelings for them then it will not hurt me to know it isn't going anywhere.

[Stockalone]

Yea... I understand. I didn't know that either when I first started dating at 18. But later on when my career took off and I was living in 3 states at the same time working round the clock I found the time for a bf to be too much. Didn't want to be all the way alone, so a low maintenance FWB made more sense for me. When I finally had the time I left my FWB and started a real R.. and treated him very well I might add.

 

I have never even considered casual sex as an option. When I am not in a LTR, I don't have sex.

 

Obviously, plenty of people think there is nothing wrong with having casual sex. That's fine, because they can do what is right for them.

 

That said, I really don't understand them. And I certainly don't want to be in a relationship with a woman who doesn't share my opinion about casual sex.

 

 

If you think that someone who has had casual sex is somehow less of a person in your eyes...then by all mean go ahead. However I can;t understand how it is important to know absolutely all the nitty gritty like that...do explain. What do you think it means about that person because they had an fwb? My personal values are strong and firm.

 

You obviously don't think it's crazy/wrong to have casual sex. That would be a conflicting value as far as I am concerned.

 

And that's really all I want to know. Basically, I only need the answers to two questions:

 

1. Do you think that having casual sex is okay/right?
2. Did you ever have casual sex?
   

 

I am not interested in knowing with whom, when, how often, and in what position, etc. they had sex. If that is what you mean with the nitty-gritty.

 

However, I have learned the hard way that my two questions can be seen as too vague (e.g. a FWB might not be considered as casual sex, etc.), so I have to ask more questions.

 

 

It seems like insecurity because it sounds as if you are worried about things in the past that have no reflection on how you will treat your current R. A person who has cheated may cheat again because at one point they did feel it was ok to do...but someone who has had casual sex when not committed to anyone can't possibly mean anything about how they will treat a relationship. This is retroactive jealousy IMO.

 

I have heard that a lot, but that doesn't apply to me. From what I read about retroactive jealousy, it usually involved obsessing over it, actually feeling less worthy than those other men and/or feeling like being in competition with them, feeling not good enough, etc.

 

My reaction is different, as none of the above has ever happened to me. I don't think about that stuff at all. Instead, I think that by having had a FWB or a history of casual sex, the woman is not what I deserve (she can't offer what I offer and demand), so I move on.

 

There is no jealousy, it's rather disappointment and disdain.

[EasyHeart]

Agreed. I'm a little disheartened by all the talk in this thread which implies that men only seek out emotional connections with others in order to get their physical needs met, as if the idea of 'relationship' were some torture-method invented by women, but generally seen as pointless. Thankfully I know they're not all like that...

Just keep thinking that!

[theBrokenMuse]

Instead, I think that by having had a FWB or a history of casual sex, the woman is not what I deserve (she can't offer what I offer and demand), so I move on.

What is it a woman who up until now (because while the past is a good predictor there is no real way of telling the future) has never had casual sex possibly offer that a woman who has can't aside from the possibility of still having an intact hymen?

Edited October 25, 2010 by theBrokenMuse

[Stockalone]

Sorry. Stockalone, I ask you, would you expect a woman you were dating to lose total respect for you after discovering you'd had a casual relationship?

 

It's up to her to decide what to do and what to believe. I have no control over that.

 

Obviously, in this case, I wouldn't mind if she did, but I've never had a casual relationship. That said, some women didn't want to date (or continue to date) me for what I thought were downright ridiculous reasons.

 

But I have no control over that either, it's just the way things are. Sometimes, those things hurt a lot. Other times, you just shake your head in disbelief, while thanking your lucky stars that you dodged a bullet there.

 

 

What is it a woman who up until now (because while the past is a good predictor there is no real way of telling the future) has never had casual sex possibly offer that a woman who has can't aside from the possibility of still having an intact hymen?

 

Peace of mind, and a shared bond of not considering casual sex as an option.

 

And for whatever it's worth, this has nothing to do with a woman being a virgin or not.

Edited October 25, 2010 by Stockalone

[porter218]

 

Peace of mind, and a shared bond of not considering casual sex as an option.

 

Hmmm. Interesting. I always thought when in a committed R that casual sex wasn't allowed unless you had an open R ...which then really isn't a committed R. I mean ...this is how you think and thats cool, but I don't get how 'not considering casual sex an option' to be anything different then a monogamous committed R. I'm confused. Casual sex is not an option if you are in a relationship....am I wrong?

[Stockalone]

Hmmm. Interesting. I always thought when in a committed R that casual sex wasn't allowed unless you had an open R ...which then really isn't a committed R. I mean ...this is how you think and thats cool, but I don't get how 'not considering casual sex an option' to be anything different then a monogamous committed R. I'm confused. Casual sex is not an option if you are in a relationship....am I wrong?

 

I am sorry, but I am not sure I understand what you might have misunderstood here. But I'll try to be more precise.

 

When I am talking about casual sex not being an option, that means it's NEVER an option!

 

It doesn't matter if I am in a relationship, single, or if I haven't had sex in a year or a decade, it simply never will be an option.

 

And in order to have that peace of mind I was talking about, I need my SO to think/feel the same way, meaning that casual sex is never an option for her as well.

Edited October 25, 2010 by Stockalone

[porter218]

I am sorry, but I am not sure I understand what you might have misunderstood here. But I'll try to be more precise.

 

When I am talking about casual sex not being an option, that means it's NEVER an option!

 

It doesn't matter if I am in a relationship, single, or if I haven't had sex in a year or a decade, it simply never will be an option.

 

And in order to have that peace of mind I was talking about, I need my SO to think/feel the same way, meaning that casual sex is never an option for her as well.

Okay. So you would be fine with a woman who had a series of 1week long committed Rs? And a woman who had a year long FWB(while only sleeping with her FWB) would be un-dateable?

I am just trying to get a clear picture of this way of thinking.

[Chicago_Guy]

But she's also committed to a relationship with you, the other guy was someone to screw, nothing more. And its in her past, so not your business.

 

Trust me, there are few men who think like that. Once a man discovers that the woman he has been dating had a purely sexual extended "relationship" with someone else, her value is probably irrevocably lowered in his mind.

[Stockalone]

Okay. So you would be fine with a woman who had a series of 1week long committed Rs? And a woman who had a year long FWB(while only sleeping with her FWB) would be un-dateable?

I am just trying to get a clear picture of this way of thinking.

 

No, I wouldn't be fine with that. In general, jumping from one relationship to another doesn't sound good at all. But there is no such thing as a one week long commited relationship.

 

Technically, I guess the term itself is accurate but in that case, people might as well start calling a ONS a commited one-day relationship. That would be crazy, though.

 

For me, sex is the last step in the initial getting to know you phase. And getting to know someone well enough to decide if a relationship might have a chance to become something that lasts for a bit, takes a lot more than a week. If I can't see potential for a LTR, I am not interested in sex.

 

Granted, that is not a fool-proof method for finding the one relationship that will last for good, but it's the only way that makes sense to me and the only way I find acceptable.

[Surrealist]

I'm a lot like stockalone. I likewise dont do the casual sex or FWB thing and Im a guy. Just my personal convictions that I hold to. Not saying I dont feel like it, but I have my scruples. I would be hypocritical if I slept around and expected any female to have not to. All the same, because I dont sleep around, I would not want a woman who does. If women choose to be in a FWB or other casual liaison, or even outright promiscuity, that is their choice. I choose not to and would not be interested in women who do. I certainly am not going to feel like I am unfairly judging people who engage in this activity, its their choice. Im honestly so glad to see there are guys around like stockalone that hold to a level of restraint and standard. Good work mate, you're not out deceiving women or playing them for your own sexual pleasure yet here you are getting interrogated for your attitude - one in which is what I would of thought a good woman would want to find in a man with integrity (which is seemingly on the decline these days). I hope you find the lady who deserves your commitment and she likewise.

[theBrokenMuse]

 

Peace of mind, and a shared bond of not considering casual sex as an option.

 

And for whatever it's worth, this has nothing to do with a woman being a virgin or not.

Peace of mind about what exactly? What I am asking is of what benefit do you think you are deriving out of placing so much emphasis on others abstaining from that option - in what way would this woman be any different from a woman who has?

[theBrokenMuse]

I certainly am not going to feel like I am unfairly judging people who engage in this activity, its their choice. Im honestly so glad to see there are guys around like stockalone that hold to a level of restraint and standard.

You said you weren't judging but then turned around and judged in the very next sentence... not trying to be a jerk by bringing it up. I just found it slightly amusing.

[EasyHeart]

Peace of mind about what exactly? What I am asking is of what benefit do you think you are deriving out of placing so much emphasis on others abstaining from that option - in what way would this woman be any different from a woman who has?

People who separate sex and love are more likely to engage in sex outside the relationship. People who inextricably tie sex and love together are not. That's not to say that all people who have FWBs will cheat, but it certainly raises the likelihood. It's just a matter of playing the probabilities.

[EasyHeart]

You said you weren't judging but then turned around and judged in the very next sentence... not trying to be a jerk by bringing it up. I just found it slightly amusing.

In the first sentence, he says he would not unfairly judge people who engage in FWB relationships; in the second sentence he praises stockalone. How is that hypocritical?

[theBrokenMuse]

In the first sentence, he says he would not unfairly judge people who engage in FWB relationships; in the second sentence he praises stockalone. How is that hypocritical?

You honestly don't see it? He praised him on basically his 'level of restraint and standard' thus making the implication that those who don't hold his stance have none. As I said, not trying to be a bitch, just found it quasi-amusing at the time when I read it.

[porter218]

I'm a lot like stockalone. I likewise dont do the casual sex or FWB thing and Im a guy. Just my personal convictions that I hold to. Not saying I dont feel like it, but I have my scruples. I would be hypocritical if I slept around and expected any female to have not to. All the same, because I dont sleep around, I would not want a woman who does. If women choose to be in a FWB or other casual liaison, or even outright promiscuity, that is their choice. I choose not to and would not be interested in women who do. I certainly am not going to feel like I am unfairly judging people who engage in this activity, its their choice. Im honestly so glad to see there are guys around like stockalone that hold to a level of restraint and standard. Good work mate, you're not out deceiving women or playing them for your own sexual pleasure yet here you are getting interrogated for your attitude - one in which is what I would of thought a good woman would want to find in a man with integrity (which is seemingly on the decline these days). I hope you find the lady who deserves your commitment and she likewise.

So you are implying a woman who has had a FWB lacks integrity? Don't get me wrong...I am very glad to see stockalone seems to be a faithful kinda guy...but implying that a woman who has had a FWB lacks integrity or the ability to be faithful is nonsensical. It seems that you two are drawing false conclusions based on small details of ones life without looking at the bigger picture. Like I said before, I have had a FWB due to circumstances about 12 years ago....and in no way does that mean I believe in sleeping around. It just simply means it was all that fit into my busy life at that time. We aren't talking sport sex here...we are talking about a FRIEND w/benefits. We are't talking multiple partners or any such thing...It is just a person who you are seeing with no future plans. But both of you guys seem to think I am lacking integrity because of this, or I am unable to be faithful? Yet I am the one who waits nearly 1 yr after her D before she has sex with another man. I am the one who remained unwaveringly faithful to a H who didn't feel the need to do the same. I am the one who commits with every fiber of her being. But thats OK you two feel that way, thats your feeling on this matter. I just hope men like this get straight to the point with their over judgmental ways and self identify with a swiftness so I don't ever waste my precious time...so I can grace some other man with my faithful love.

[theBrokenMuse]

People who separate sex and love are more likely to engage in sex outside the relationship. People who inextricably tie sex and love together are not. That's not to say that all people who have FWBs will cheat, but it certainly raises the likelihood. It's just a matter of playing the probabilities.

and this is where people go wrong, imo. What someone may or may not have done at sixteen is not an accurate depiction of the person they are in their mid thirties. People grow and change over time.

 

The fact that a woman have never banged someone outside of a serious relationship does not automatically mean that she 'ties' the idea together sex and love together. There are reasons a person may do this including religious convictions, a low sex drive in which their convictions are used as a cover for the reason they abstain because they don't want to scare the guy off or she may even have an unhealthy view of sex (which can also often also go under the religious category because they've done such a bang up job over the years of making people see sex as something dirty and degrading).

 

Perhaps she really does tie sex and emotional intimacy together but this factor in and of itself does not indicate that she has healthy boundaries when it comes to males, won't shop around for something 'better' or won't engage in emotional affairs. I'd say one of the most despicable things I have seen is the smug self-righteousness of a person who has waited until they have the divorce papers in hand to start officially 'dating' the person that they decided to leave their marriage for. It seems like they shout from the rooftops about how much integrity they have because they never 'technically cheated' Heavens no.... They just fell in luuuuuuurve.

[EasyHeart]

You honestly don't see it? He praised him on basically his 'level of restraint and standard' thus making the implication that those who don't hold his stance have none. As I said, not trying to be a bitch, just found it quasi-amusing at the time when I read it.

Wow, that's a pretty big stretch. But I think you are going to read whatever you want into the statements of anyone who disagrees with you.

[porter218]

 

 

Perhaps she really does tie sex and emotional intimacy together but this factor in and of itself does not indicate that she has healthy boundaries when it comes to males, won't shop around for something 'better' or won't engage in emotional affairs. I'd say one of the most despicable things I have seen is the smug self-righteousness of a person who has waited until they have the divorce papers in hand to start officially 'dating' the person that they decided to leave their marriage for. It seems like they shout from the rooftops about how much integrity they have because they never 'technically cheated' Heavens no.... They just fell in luuuuuuurve.

 

This also brings up a good point. Maybe said woman does pass your test and absolutely ties sex and love together. So this just means she loves the man she is boning on the side.

[theBrokenMuse]

I would also like to add that I do not believe that a woman who equates love and sex is less likely to cheat. I would imagine that having that mindset would make a woman more likely to start out in an emotional affair as opposed to physical and make her more likely to walk away from the marriage for her affair partner (once her emotional intimacy has been removed from her husband she will no longer desire him physically ether so it bodes very poorly for him).