Str8noChaser Posted October 23, 2010 Posted October 23, 2010 What everyone seems to be missing is that evidently she concealed this prior relationship history from the OP. Show where the OP, explicitly or otherwise, states that.
atlnay Posted October 23, 2010 Posted October 23, 2010 NSA = no strings attached? As long as the FWB is the only problem, then my level of respect for her is higher than all of the options you mentioned above. I still wouldn't want to date her, though. Fair enough and I respect that you are firm in your personal standards. But let me ask you this. Say you met the same women, with the same background, except for 2 years rather than have one NSA FWB, she either: A) had multiple sexual partners for a shorter time frame, say 3 months or less B)had 4 back to back LTRs that lasted no more than 6 months each and she went from one to another or C)She be celibate...dating, but waiting for her next boyfriend, which after 2 years turns out to be you. Which one would you date? Or what would you find acceptable history for a woman with a child and it's been 2 years since the divorce.
LiveWell Posted October 23, 2010 Posted October 23, 2010 You are making a lot of assumptions about people who enjoy casual sex. I didn't make one single assumption about "people who enjoy casual sex." But if you really thought I did, you would have quoted it. Since you didn't, there's nothing really for me to respond to to rebut what you just said. "High relationship value?" What the heck are you talking about? If you do not understand the term, I can live with that. I think you actually do understand perfectly well, though. In the context of this thread, it is apparent that the OP perceives his gf as someone who presented herself to OP as a person who would not have casual/meaningless sex, certainly not for two years running in an FWB relationship where she has been blatantly told that she's not even worthy of being taken out on a "legitimate date" (I suppose that means buying her dinner first or something). IOW this is a situation similar to those in which a woman will make one man "jump through hoops" to prove himself worthy of being in a relationship with her, including the sexual aspect. Meanwhile, she has no compunction about having meaningless sex with a "bad boy" or a series of them (and I think the doctor can be fairly categorized in this manner for purposes of this discussion). Oftentimes the same women will behave in these diametrically opposed ways simultaneously, although as of now we don't know if that also happened in this particular case. Do you honestly believe that someone is damaged goods just because they had a two year FWB relationship with a young doctor? There is nothing degrading about that. Interesting observations on your part. Tell me--what type of conduct would your own SO, if you have one, have to engage in, before you would deem it "unacceptable"? You draw your line, I draw my line, the OP has to draw his line. The OP's gf also has to draw her own line, and if she didn't believe what she did was degrading or shameful in some manner, it seems to me it would have been disclosed much earlier in the relationship than the one year mark. As carhill points out, it's entirely likely that in actuality OP's gf was cheating with the doctor during her marriage and continued after her divorce. If carhill's supposition were true, would you find THAT constituted "degrading" or "unacceptable"behavior? Again--we all have to make up our own minds, but in order to do so, we need honest and full disclosure from our partners. OP didn't get the benefit of that. So it's not simply about the particular behavior she'd engaged in; it's that she's presented herself to OP in such a way that he did not believe her capable of it. Just because a woman enjoys casual sex doesn't mean she places a "low value" on herself. This notion you have that women should only dole out sex during relationships is archaic. Do you believe my notion that people in serious LTRs should be honest with each other is also similarly "archaic"? By all means, please suit yourself when it comes to sexual matters!
LiveWell Posted October 23, 2010 Posted October 23, 2010 Show where the OP, explicitly or otherwise, states that. Here ya go: "After dating my girlfriend for nearly a year, I found out that she'd been some guy's f-buddy for more than 2 years." (First post, first sentence in thread.)
EasyHeart Posted October 23, 2010 Posted October 23, 2010 One long-term FWB isn't the worst thing out there as far as casual sex goes. Being with just one person for that is safer than having multiple short-term partners. Who says that she didn't take the decision to start the FWB with the doctor seriously?If it was a FWB situation, then by definition she didn't take it seriously. Certainly the situation described isn't the worst thing a person can do, and it certainly doesn't mean she's a bad person or anything, but it's definitely something a potential BF deserves to know about before he gets involved with her. The same is true if she spent two years having ONSs, had 8 three month sequential relationships, or dated one guy for two years and wanted to marry him. Those are all things that should be disclosed.
Str8noChaser Posted October 23, 2010 Posted October 23, 2010 Here ya go: (First post, first sentence in thread.) Ok. What I gleaned from that first post, first sentence in the thread, wasn't that she concealed the relationship history specifically. But the nature of the relationship. Those are two different things, in my world. And finding out from the OP what led to that discussion, would make things a lot clearer. Aside from that, you then jumped to this?? She may have been ashamed and therefore was deceitful. The inference is that as a condition of getting sexual with OP, his gf made him jump through all kinds of "hoops" to get there. She probably made it seem as if she "wasn't that kind of girl" just to have a purely sexual relationship. How do you know if she felt ashamed? How do you know his gf "made him jump through all kind of hoops"? How do you know WHAT type of girl she portrayed herself to be? Find those quotes from the OP. Thanks.
atlnay Posted October 23, 2010 Posted October 23, 2010 If it was a FWB situation, then by definition she didn't take it seriously. Certainly the situation described isn't the worst thing a person can do, and it certainly doesn't mean she's a bad person or anything, but it's definitely something a potential BF deserves to know about before he gets involved with her. The same is true if she spent two years having ONSs, had 8 three month sequential relationships, or dated one guy for two years and wanted to marry him. Those are all things that should be disclosed. At what point, after you first meet someone, would you disclose the what you suggest and would you do it voluntarily?
atlnay Posted October 23, 2010 Posted October 23, 2010 How do you know his gf "made him jump through all kind of hoops"? She might have worked on herself, after that doc situation and set higher standards for her dating life. It happens. So I can see how, from a mans point of view it's jumping through hoops, but from a females point of view it's what a lot of relationship books tell you to do, if you have low self esteem and was settling for less in the past.
Stockalone Posted October 23, 2010 Posted October 23, 2010 A) had multiple sexual partners for a shorter time frame, say 3 months or less Wouldn't date her. B)had 4 back to back LTRs that lasted no more than 6 months each and she went from one to another or Jumping from one relationship to another doesn't sound good at all. I would need more information, but I probably wouldn't date her. C)She be celibate...dating, but waiting for her next boyfriend, which after 2 years turns out to be you. In my opinion, that's how things should be, so I'd date her.
kdark Posted October 23, 2010 Posted October 23, 2010 I didn't make one single assumption about "people who enjoy casual sex." But if you really thought I did, you would have quoted it. Since you didn't, there's nothing really for me to respond to to rebut what you just said. If you do not understand the term, I can live with that. I think you actually do understand perfectly well, though. In the context of this thread, it is apparent that the OP perceives his gf as someone who presented herself to OP as a person who would not have casual/meaningless sex, certainly not for two years running in an FWB relationship where she has been blatantly told that she's not even worthy of being taken out on a "legitimate date" (I suppose that means buying her dinner first or something). IOW this is a situation similar to those in which a woman will make one man "jump through hoops" to prove himself worthy of being in a relationship with her, including the sexual aspect. Meanwhile, she has no compunction about having meaningless sex with a "bad boy" or a series of them (and I think the doctor can be fairly categorized in this manner for purposes of this discussion). Oftentimes the same women will behave in these diametrically opposed ways simultaneously, although as of now we don't know if that also happened in this particular case. Interesting observations on your part. Tell me--what type of conduct would your own SO, if you have one, have to engage in, before you would deem it "unacceptable"? You draw your line, I draw my line, the OP has to draw his line. The OP's gf also has to draw her own line, and if she didn't believe what she did was degrading or shameful in some manner, it seems to me it would have been disclosed much earlier in the relationship than the one year mark. As carhill points out, it's entirely likely that in actuality OP's gf was cheating with the doctor during her marriage and continued after her divorce. If carhill's supposition were true, would you find THAT constituted "degrading" or "unacceptable"behavior? Again--we all have to make up our own minds, but in order to do so, we need honest and full disclosure from our partners. OP didn't get the benefit of that. So it's not simply about the particular behavior she'd engaged in; it's that she's presented herself to OP in such a way that he did not believe her capable of it. Do you believe my notion that people in serious LTRs should be honest with each other is also similarly "archaic"? By all means, please suit yourself when it comes to sexual matters! I'm posting from my cell phone, so I'm not going to itemize your quotes. Too much of a hassle. And no I don't know what you mean by "high relationship value" becuase it means something different to everyone. You seem to imply that a woman who has meaningless casual sex is low relationship value, which in my experience isn't true in the least. And being in a relationship isn't jumping through hoops. If OP wants an FWB, he should go out and find one. He shouldn't get mad because he finds out his girlfriend once had an FWB previously, and now he feels entitled to no strings attached sex with her. OP has a major problem if that's his line of thinking, which can be construed from his first two posts. It's every woman's right to choose who she has sex with, and who she enters into a relationship with, just as it is every man's right. As has been stated by other posters, I don't draw any lines in regards to a person's past. I date people for who they are not who they were. Everbody has things they are ashamed of or regret, and I don't hold that against anyone. OP has every right to break up with his girlfriend over this, but to expect that he deserves no strings attached sex now is absurd. It is entirely possible that the doctor was sleeping with her during her marriage, but that is just specualtion. Maybe the husband was ok with her sleeping with the doctor? Maybe the husband was filming it? Their are any number of hypotheticals we could make up, so I am just going by what I see. And of course I believe in honesty during relationships. But your notion of a woman being damaged goods and deceitful after having casual sex with one person for two years and thinking it wasn't a big deal not to mention it IS archaic in my book.
LiveWell Posted October 23, 2010 Posted October 23, 2010 Ok. What I gleaned from that first post, first sentence in the thread, wasn't that she concealed the relationship history specifically. By the very nature of these things, it's kind of difficult to conceal anything by drawing attention to the fact that you're concealing something. I wouldn't expect her to have said something such as "I won't tell you about my past relationship(s) because I did something I don't want you to know about. Therefore I must deliberately conceal it from you." That's rarely if ever the way these things play out in relationships. Compare these two: 1) Telling someone "I have a secret but I'm not going to tell you what it is because I don't want you to know" vs 2) having a secret and not mentioning it to the other person at all. Which do you think is a better/more likely way to successfully keep the secret? By telling the other person that a secret is there which you won't share, or by not revealing that there is a secret in the first place? Also implicit in the OP's post is that his gf did NOT lead him to think participation in an FWB type relationship was something that she would even entertain. Again, as many women do. They will have casual sex with certain men in certain situations, but compartmentalize in such a way that with "serious" boyfriends, they will not only NOT have casual sex with the serious boyfriend; they will present an image to convey the impression that they are simply "not that kind of girl." This is not a novel scenario. But the nature of the relationship. Those are two different things, in my world. And finding out from the OP what led to that discussion, would make things a lot clearer. So you think it's possible that the OP posted what he posted but does not feel he had been deceived by his gf on some level? Then why bother posting? Aside from that, you then jumped to this?? How do you know if she felt ashamed? I don't. I'm simply giving her credit for something other than pure calculating deception as a reason for the non-disclosure. But I will accept that she might feel no shame at all. So, what reasons other than shame, or an intent to deceive, do you believe a person might have for failing to disclose information about a past relationship to a current SO? I'm sorry if I appear unknowledgable to you, but IME when people hide things about themselves, or fail to disclose things that one would expect to be disclosed, it's generally either because they're embarrassed, or because they are trying to be deceptive. They might not actually feel shame, but they see a benefit to themselves in not disclosing the info. In the context of a relationship, the OP's gf might not have felt shame at all. But, she may have believed that had she disclosed the FWB relationship early on, the OP may not have held her to a very high level of respect or esteem. As now seems to be the case. The point is OP has not had a fair opportunity to determine who she really is because she withheld the information from him, or at least failed to disclose it. She, and you, may think this information to be unimportant, but OP thinks it is important. How do you know his gf "made him jump through all kind of hoops"? How do you know WHAT type of girl she portrayed herself to be? Find those quotes from the OP. Thanks. You asked me to find quotes before and I did. I don't feel like doing it again, but I do recollect where the OP talked about the "responsibilities" of the relationship. In any event I'm not sure why you're having such trouble understanding the OP's POV. The kind of generalized behavior being described is not uncommon in the dating/relationship world: A woman will "put out" for the desirable "bad boy", meanwhile, present a persona as a "good girl" to someone she might consider "serious LTR" or "husband" material. That can work out fine until the two worlds collide.
lucylove Posted October 23, 2010 Posted October 23, 2010 plenty of men and women have F buddies. there are benefits that come as a result of the responsibilities assumed in the context of relationships, which is people have them. your logic is backwards. if you have a good relationship with her, you are getting a lot more out of her than the other guy did. to say that most women engage in sex only relationships because that is the best they can do is absurd. any woman can find a commitment if that is what she truly seeks. your girlfriend got you, didn't she? it's true that many women find themselves involved in sexually based relationships in which they hope in vain for something more in depth, or for other wrong reasons. but even if this was the case with your girlfriend, you are still receiving the cream of her monogamy and she is still taking on a responsibility with you. i'm sure your past is not white as snow either. if you cannot appreciate the difference and accept her for who she is (past included) then let her go so she can move on and find someone who will. you are not automatically entitled to sex with no strings attached just because she did that with someone else; maybe that isn't what she wants with you, or for herself anymore, period. you need to respect her choices.
lucylove Posted October 23, 2010 Posted October 23, 2010 I don't have much if any sympathy for OP's gf. What everyone seems to be missing is that evidently she concealed this prior relationship history from the OP. After a year of being together, surely they'd discussed their past relationships? She may have been ashamed and therefore was deceitful. The inference is that as a condition of getting sexual with OP, his gf made him jump through all kinds of "hoops" to get there. She probably made it seem as if she "wasn't that kind of girl" just to have a purely sexual relationship. Subsequently OP found out well, ya know what? She's EXACTLY that kind of girl. OP's gf sounds like a real "user." She used the doctor for sex when that's what she needed; she's using the OP now for emotional sustenance and will no doubt ditch him when "something better" comes along with not a second thought. She sounds like really bad news actually. why is it a misrepresentation if she didn't give into sex before they had established some kind of trust and level of emotional intimacy. all that means is she took the OP seriously and therefore did not engage in early sexual behavior that would defeat any potential of a meaningful relationship?
kdark Posted October 23, 2010 Posted October 23, 2010 A The kind of generalized behavior being described is not uncommon in the dating/relationship world: A woman will "put out" for the desirable "bad boy", meanwhile, present a persona as a "good girl" to someone she might consider "serious LTR" or "husband" material. That can work out fine until the two worlds collide. You're just jealous that women get sex easier than you. Why do you think that women shouldn't be allowed to find some men worthy of having sex with, but not relationship worthy and vice versa, when men do it ALL THE TIME?
brainygirl Posted October 23, 2010 Posted October 23, 2010 I don't think it should be a question of "well, its ok for men but not women" so much as "she or he did what was best for them at that point in their life". That's why I don't think a dissection of past relationships is appropriate in all relationships. What someone was doing, who they were, what they needed in their life. Why should you judge her based on what happened then? Should you base your opinion of her on what you've seen now? A long term fwb relationship does not mean she will cheat. It means she picked out a guy she enjoyed and enjoyed her time with him, knowing it probably wouldn't grow into anything more.
LiveWell Posted October 23, 2010 Posted October 23, 2010 I'm posting from my cell phone, so I'm not going to itemize your quotes. Too much of a hassle. Fair enough, I can work with that. And no I don't know what you mean by "high relationship value" becuase it means something different to everyone. You seem to imply that a woman who has meaningless casual sex is low relationship value, which in my experience isn't true in the least. Hmmm....I think the problem here might be that you are taking what are meant to be my observations of OP's situation, and the people involved in that situation, and attitudes expressed by them, and attributing those attitudes to me, personally. So let's clarify: No, I don't think it is intrinsically wrong or bad to have casual sex. I certainly never made any such distinction based on the person's gender. If I did think casual sex was intrinsically bad--which I do not--that would apply to all genders, not just women. The key point that you seem to be missing is that it is the OP's gf and her doctor/FWB who themselves assigned to her, a "low relationship value." That is not MY opinion. That is THEIR opinion. The doc expressly told the OP's gf that she wasn't good enough to date, because she had a kid. But she WAS good enough to be FWB. And obviously by agreeing to participate in that, OP's gf agreed with the doc that she was not good enough to insist upon a "legit" (for lack of a better word) relationship with him. Does that mean I believe she's not worthy of a legit full relationship with a man? Not at all. I didn't ask her to participate with me in a FWB, while telling her she's not good enough for a full relationship with me because she has a child. And being in a relationship isn't jumping through hoops. With all respect kdark have you ever actually been in a committed, monogamous long term relationship? I mean a successful one? Because if you had been in one, or are in one now, one thing that you would not be trying to argue with, is the fact that successful committed relationships take LOTS of hard work, or: "jumping through hoops." On the part of both parties. One of those "hoops" is being honest with one's partner, not just about those things that one wants to, or feels comfortable in disclosing; but also those things which in fairness, the partner might want to know about. If OP wants an FWB, he should go out and find one. Sigh. If he wanted one, he wouldn't have gotten into this relationship in the first place, which is NOT an FWB. On the other hand, why should he put the effort into a "real" relationship with a woman who, as it turns out, all that extra effort might not make any difference to? IOW why should he bother? His gf can't now say he should bother because anything beyond a purely sexual relationship has any meaning to her, relationship wise. Or at least I believe that is what he is driving at, and he may well be correct. Why should OP be held to a "higher standard" by the gf the she held herself to in the prior FWB relationship? It's ironic that so many people are defending her by saying there's nothing wrong with an FWB relationship--but when OP suggests that's now what he wants his relationship with her to be, he's roundly chastised. Why is that? Why is it ok for her to participate in a FWB with some other guy, but it's wrong for OP to want her to be his FWB? You know what? There's absolutely nothing wrong with it. Unless of course some form of double standard is applied, of the "nice guys"/"bad boys" variety. He shouldn't get mad because he finds out his girlfriend once had an FWB previously, and now he feels entitled to no strings attached sex with her. LOL, now you're telling him what emotions he should/should not be entitled to feel? He is perfectly within his rights to feel whatever he wants to feel. Why shouldn't he be entitled to the same thing that his gf felt entitled to, that is, FWB sex only relationship? That doesn't mean she has to agree to it, but she really has no basis to question his desire for it. She knows precisely why he wants it--she had one herself! And as someone else criticized me, there's nothing wrong with casual sex. (Unless the OP/a man/ wants it, hmmm?????) OP has a major problem if that's his line of thinking, which can be construed from his first two posts. It's every woman's right to choose who she has sex with, and who she enters into a relationship with, just as it is every man's right. But you just said OP was wrong to want an FWB relationship with his gf, didn't you? So it's OK for the gf, but not for OP? Like I said: double standard. No, she doesn't have to agree to have an FWB with OP, but also, no, it's not "wrong" for him to want that kind of a relationship with her. For the precise reasons you just said: Each is entitled to choose who and under what conditions they have sex with someone else. OP is not in any way foreclosed from desiring an FWB relationship with her, simply because that would be a change in the status quo. As has been stated by other posters, I don't draw any lines in regards to a person's past. I date people for who they are not who they were. I don't believe this statement is literally true, but if it is, it simply demonstrates that you lack judgment. Are you saying you would consider someone who had had multiple occurrences of prior broken relationships due to their infidelity to be irrelevant to your decision as to getting seriously involved with them? Seriously now. You would get into a serious LTR with someone who told you that they had cheated on every single one of their prior SO's and you don't think that info would be relevant? Everbody has things they are ashamed of or regret, and I don't hold that against anyone. OP has every right to break up with his girlfriend over this, but to expect that he deserves no strings attached sex now is absurd. LOL, kdark, thank you for exhibiting the double standard you claim to be opposed to, in your own post. NSA/FWB sex is perfectly fine for the gf, it's her choice. But the OP is NOT allowed to want it, why, the mere desire for it is "absurd." It is entirely possible that the doctor was sleeping with her during her marriage, but that is just specualtion. Maybe the husband was ok with her sleeping with the doctor? Maybe the husband was filming it? Their are any number of hypotheticals we could make up, so I am just going by what I see. Well kdark you have very little credibility because you made a statement I guess for purposes of argument that is clearly unbelievable when you indicated you do not care at all about an SO's past relationship history. If you really believe that and act on it you will make bad choices and I wish you luck with that. But history and past decisions do matter, you will find that out sooner or later. And of course I believe in honesty during relationships. But your notion of a woman being damaged goods and deceitful after having casual sex with one person for two years and thinking it wasn't a big deal not to mention it IS archaic in my book. LOL again attributing words to me that I didn't say. Please don't try to squeeze everything into your very limited world view, which is obviously reflective of little if any serious, successful relationship experience.
LiveWell Posted October 23, 2010 Posted October 23, 2010 A You're just jealous that women get sex easier than you. LOL I am? I can have sex with my wife pretty much anytime I want since we are fortunately very compatible in that area. I can't really say I'm jealous that she gets more sex than I do since I think we're getting it in equal amounts. (At least I sure hope so.) Why do you think that women shouldn't be allowed to find some men worthy of having sex with, but not relationship worthy and vice versa, when men do it ALL THE TIME? I don't, and that's why I never said anything of the kind. Next time please quote me if you want to attribute something to me, I understand you're on your cell phone, but still, try harder please.
Str8noChaser Posted October 23, 2010 Posted October 23, 2010 You asked me to find quotes before and I did. I don't feel like doing it again, but I do recollect where the OP talked about the "responsibilities" of the relationship. You CAN'T do it again because OP never stated what you projected on him.
LiveWell Posted October 23, 2010 Posted October 23, 2010 You CAN'T do it again because OP never stated what you projected on him. LOL it's not my job to cut and paste other people's posts for you because you don't feel like actually reading the thread. Have a nice day.
LiveWell Posted October 23, 2010 Posted October 23, 2010 Why should you judge her based on what happened then? OK brainygirl. You've convinced me. So now I've got the perfect solution for your marital problems which you've discussed in other threads-- All you need to do is 1) get divorced tomorrow; and then 2) get remarried to your husband the day after tomorrow. The re-marriage will be a new relationship, and since the past doesn't matter, the two of you can just start fresh.
Str8noChaser Posted October 23, 2010 Posted October 23, 2010 LOL it's not my job to cut and paste other people's posts for you because you don't feel like actually reading the thread. Have a nice day. Here you go, from the OP: After dating my girlfriend for nearly a year, I found out that she'd been some guy's f-buddy for more than 2 years. I feel if just sex was okay for the last guy... Why shouldn't I get the same deal? & Our relationship is both passionate and intimate. But I feel as though she might have been more into the other guy. She was willing give herself to him without having him do so much as buy her dinner. But me, I get the relationship that's bound with responsibilities. & I just feel most women accept an f-buddy relationship... Because that's the only type of relationship that the guy will have with her. & She's a nurse who's divorced with a child. Her f-buddy was a younger, never married doctor who told her he has a rule... I don't date women with children. So she chose just to screw him for years instead. So, knowing this, is a woman who would accept a relationship like that a woman with self respect? You said: She may have been ashamed and therefore was deceitful. The inference is that as a condition of getting sexual with OP, his gf made him jump through all kinds of "hoops" to get there. She probably made it seem as if she "wasn't that kind of girl" just to have a purely sexual relationship. What are the hoops she made him jump through?
brainygirl Posted October 23, 2010 Posted October 23, 2010 Why should you judge her based on what happened then? OK brainygirl. You've convinced me. So now I've got the perfect solution for your marital problems which you've discussed in other threads-- All you need to do is 1) get divorced tomorrow; and then 2) get remarried to your husband the day after tomorrow. The re-marriage will be a new relationship, and since the past doesn't matter, the two of you can just start fresh. Uhm, you need to go back and read again, I'm not married, so I wouldn't be complaining about marriage problems. There is a difference between THE DISTANT PAST and WHAT HAS HAPPENED SINCE THE OP MET HIS GF. If the woman has been warm, kind, fun, supportive and LOYAL in the time they've been together, then the revelation SHOULD NOT IMPACT THE RELATIONSHIP. Are you the same person you were five years ago? Are you the same person you were ten years ago. How about 15? Because five years ago I was homeless, I lived in my dad's livingroom. Ten years ago I have just graduated high school and was startign college and working two jobs. 15 years ago making grand champion in 4-h was my top priority. U suspect that it doesn't matter what anyone says, you are hell bent on playing the troll here.
LiveWell Posted October 23, 2010 Posted October 23, 2010 Here you go, from the OP: You said: What are the hoops she made him jump through? The ones that make it not an FWB relationship, obviously. Or what he referred to as "responsibilities."
Str8noChaser Posted October 23, 2010 Posted October 23, 2010 The ones that make it not an FWB relationship, obviously. Or what he referred to as "responsibilities." He had a CHOICE. When he found himself heading into relationship terriory with "responsibilities" he should've ending things with her and moved on. She can't MAKE him do anything. He CHOSE to do said "responsibilities".
Hi.P.O'Crit Posted October 23, 2010 Posted October 23, 2010 The past is the past huh? Posters may be interested in reading OP's other thread for clarification on the gf's history regarding the FB.
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