U1987 Posted October 22, 2010 Posted October 22, 2010 I've had a recurring problem with most of the girlfriends I've had. We'd start dating, then eventually we'd get making out, and working our way around the bases. Then before we get to sex, they drop the "Commit or no sex" speech. I've always caved in, but to be honest, I've really resent being pressured like this. I think it's really disrespectful to try and blackmail a guy into a relationship under threat of withholding sex. I really find it demeaning and childish quite frankly. I really don't want to be put in a situation like this again the next time I'm dating, but I really think the only way to get out of it is to strike first; to give an ultimatum of my own. Is there any smooth, sensitive way of telling a girl early that she needs to have sex first, or else I'm not dating her?
Disillusioned Posted October 22, 2010 Posted October 22, 2010 Is there any smooth, sensitive way of telling a girl early that she needs to have sex first, or else I'm not dating her? In one word: no.
Star Gazer Posted October 22, 2010 Posted October 22, 2010 Then before we get to sex, they drop the "Commit or no sex" speech. I've always caved in, but to be honest, I've really resent being pressured like this. I think it's really disrespectful to try and blackmail a guy into a relationship under threat of withholding sex. I really find it demeaning and childish quite frankly. Would it be better if they gave the "speech" before things got hot and heavy? During a more casual conversation? Is there any smooth, sensitive way of telling a girl early that she needs to have sex first, or else I'm not dating her? Hahahaha! Nope.
Author U1987 Posted October 22, 2010 Author Posted October 22, 2010 Would it be better if they gave the "speech" before things got hot and heavy? During a more casual conversation? Most young girls drop the speech between 2nd and 3rd I find.
Star Gazer Posted October 22, 2010 Posted October 22, 2010 Most young girls drop the speech between 2nd and 3rd I find. I don't think it's fair to have any sort of serious/heavy conversation in the midst of getting all hot and heavy. Rather, that should be a playful conversation over drinks/dinner/appetizers or something. In other words, it should take place before you have an erection.
Author U1987 Posted October 22, 2010 Author Posted October 22, 2010 Find a woman who wants casual sex as well. It's really not that easy. It really seems like most young women are on the husband-hunt. Whenever I meet a girl and we start dating, I have to pray she just wants to hookup but that's rarely the case.
SlevinKalebra Posted October 22, 2010 Posted October 22, 2010 If a woman wants a relationship that's what she is looking for, not her fault, not a bad thing either. It's not out of spite it's out of a desire to be close to someone more than just physically so don't take it personally or as a negative. If anything it's a compliment, they see something in you that they don't want to lose. That said, you absolutely have the right to state what you are looking for. Just realize you may not get sex out of the interaction. Be upfront, "I don't want to mislead you, I have a lot going on" "just got out of a relationship" "need to take time for myself" whatever then "I am enjoying your company and kissing you and don't want to stop but I don't know that I am ready for a relationship." Some girls will put on the brakes so be ready. Some may try to change your mind by going forward and pulling away (I give a little you give a little) some will be happy for the honesty and some will chock it up to 'honest nice guy, good kisser might as well enjoy the moment. Keep it light when you start talking about it, keep contact and the light kissing going
Woggle Posted October 22, 2010 Posted October 22, 2010 It's really not that easy. It really seems like most young women are on the husband-hunt. Whenever I meet a girl and we start dating, I have to pray she just wants to hookup but that's rarely the case. True and even the ones who do want just sex often become attached with the one who is not in love with them. I know this from experience. Even messing with married women has plenty of headaches. Smile at them and they are ready to divorce their husbands for you. Maybe you can find an older woman who just wants to fool around.
xpaperxcutx Posted October 22, 2010 Posted October 22, 2010 Leave these poor girls alone, or they'll turn into men hating women and start posting on LS.
that girl Posted October 22, 2010 Posted October 22, 2010 (edited) I've always caved in, but to be honest, I've really resent being pressured like this. I think it's really disrespectful to try and blackmail a guy into a relationship under threat of withholding sex. I really find it demeaning and childish quite frankly. What do you think a woman should do if she isn't comfortable having sex outside of a committed relationship? I doubt these girls are trying to pressure or manipulate you into a relationship. They're being upfront and you can always walk away. I really don't want to be put in a situation like this again the next time I'm dating, but I really think the only way to get out of it is to strike first; to give an ultimatum of my own. Is there any smooth, sensitive way of telling a girl early that she needs to have sex first, or else I'm not dating her? Your ultimatium is unlikely to work because they're being upfront. What you can say is that you are looking for no strings attached sex and watch the ones who are looking for a relationship walk away (which is probably better for both of you). You're looking at women like they are the opposition and they're not. Be upfront, "I don't want to mislead you, I have a lot going on" "just got out of a relationship" "need to take time for myself" whatever then "I am enjoying your company and kissing you and don't want to stop but I don't know that I am ready for a relationship." You really can just say you aren't looking for a relationship. Using qualifiers like you suggest leads to drama a lot of the time because they can imply that things are headed towards a relationship. Edited October 22, 2010 by that girl
just_some_guy Posted October 22, 2010 Posted October 22, 2010 I don't understand the OP's original question exactly. Is he in conflict because he feels the women he is dating are using the offer of sex as a means to extort a relationship, or is he not understanding that the lady is saying she doesn't want to have sex outside of a committed relationship? There is a subtle difference here is in the intent and the perspective. It is entirely understandable for a woman (or a man) to decide that she doesn't want to have sex outside of an exclusive commitment. That is something that should be respected and communicated clearly. On the other hand, there is the holding out of sex as an enticement for the relationship, which goes to intent. Some women will go this route, sometimes having sex and then expecting the commitment afterwards. What happens here is there is poor communication, the expectation is hidden, until things have progressed into a sexual situation and bam, out comes the relationship cage with the nookie as bait.
luvnpain Posted October 22, 2010 Posted October 22, 2010 It's funny that you say it's disrespectful for women to "blackmail" you because they "withhold" sex. Disrespectful? Really?Do you feel that your general attitude on this is respectful of women? Also, the words you use (blackmail and withhold) indicates a feeling of entitlement. Like, it's your kat, and she has it and won't give it to you until you give her something in exchange. Wha? You don't have a right to the kitty kat because you bought her a few meals, gave a few compliments and spent a little time. Same as she don't have the right to your checkcard for a few dates. Anyhoo, no there's no smooth way or charming way to do this. The fact that you're not looking for a relationship should just be stated from the beginning, just having fun.
Els Posted October 22, 2010 Posted October 22, 2010 Don't you think it's equally 'disrespectful and insensitive' to 'blackmail' a girl into having sex 'under threat' of withholding a relationship? :rolleyes:
Idalis Posted October 22, 2010 Posted October 22, 2010 Don't you think it's equally 'disrespectful and insensitive' to 'blackmail' a girl into having sex 'under threat' of withholding a relationship? :rolleyes: LOVE this!!
Feelin Frisky Posted October 22, 2010 Posted October 22, 2010 If a girl gives you that choice, make it--don't just cave. Perhaps if you make it pretty obvious without being a bull in a China shop about it that you don't accept her ultimatium, she may feel her bluff has been called and come around to acquiesce to YOUR terms. You'll never know if you don't be more patient and explore these dynamics. Don't be a kaboose to your penis.
Author U1987 Posted October 22, 2010 Author Posted October 22, 2010 Don't you think it's equally 'disrespectful and insensitive' to 'blackmail' a girl into having sex 'under threat' of withholding a relationship? :rolleyes: A relationship is a LOT more to ask for than sex.
that girl Posted October 22, 2010 Posted October 22, 2010 A relationship is a LOT more to ask for than sex. But you don't have to give them a relationship. These women are being upfront about what they want. They're not forcing you into anything. They're not manipulating you. They're not issuing ultimatums. But rather than appreciating the fact that they're honest, you're annoyed that they don't just ignore their own desires and spread their legs.
robaday Posted October 22, 2010 Posted October 22, 2010 So under these terms, the woman knows that the only reason the guy commited, or wanted to commit, was to have sex with her....wow that must feel great for her. Surely a relationship is about people WANTING commit to each other?
Titania22 Posted October 22, 2010 Posted October 22, 2010 I think this is all about social programming. Girls are programmed from a young age to want a lasting relationship (think fairytales for a start) and negatively programmed against sex outside a relationship (think of all the unpleasant name calling).
Ella whispers Posted October 22, 2010 Posted October 22, 2010 No. Sex for women comes from an emotional place. The ones that are damaged will "put out" quick like a bunny. No self respecting woman meets a man and just gives it up. Try to find a booty call, that's what it sounds like you need. Or pay for it.
Titania22 Posted October 22, 2010 Posted October 22, 2010 No. Sex for women comes from an emotional place. The ones that are damaged will "put out" quick like a bunny. No self respecting woman meets a man and just gives it up. Try to find a booty call, that's what it sounds like you need. Or pay for it. No one is denying that sex for women comes from an emotional place. But this committment obsession, is a combination of a historical need for protection and societal social programming. We are trained from a young age to fantasize about marriage and the traditional family unit, and that programming is stronger in girls who are younger, without life experience.
that girl Posted October 22, 2010 Posted October 22, 2010 So under these terms, the woman knows that the only reason the guy commited, or wanted to commit, was to have sex with her....wow that must feel great for her. Surely a relationship is about people WANTING commit to each other? No, they assume the guy is telling the truth and if he wasn't interested in a forming a relationship he'd say so. I know the OP described this happening on the second or third date, but in my experience the girls who work this way tend to bring it up a little later than that after they have decided the guy is possible relationship material but obviously hasn't slept with him yet. Bringing it up after 5+ dates probably naturally weeds out a lot of guys looking for casual sex because they won't follow up with a woman who isn't sleeping with him. There are lots of different attitudes about sex. Some people are fine with casual sex, some aren't. I've noticed that guys who aren't interested in casual sex tend to just assume a woman they've been on a number of dates with isn't seeing anyone else while women with this attitude tend to ask. I am actually shocked that so many guys are agreeing with the blackmail/force argument. It really doesn't reflect well on the posters. It is like they don't see woman as actual decent people with their own wants and needs. It must be a game or manipulation if she does anything other than what he wants her to do.
that girl Posted October 22, 2010 Posted October 22, 2010 No one is denying that sex for women comes from an emotional place. But this committment obsession, is a combination of a historical need for protection and societal social programming. We are trained from a young age to fantasize about marriage and the traditional family unit, and that programming is stronger in girls who are younger, without life experience. This is a big overgeneralization. A woman doesn't have to be brainwashed to not want casual sex. Sure, for some people it is about religion or societal expectations, but some people just don't like having sex with a near stranger and never seeing them again. It doesn't mean they are obsessed with getting married, lots of women purposely practice serial monogomy. There are guys who don't want casual sex either, though the ratio is more skewed towards women.
Titania22 Posted October 22, 2010 Posted October 22, 2010 Then before we get to sex, they drop the "Commit or no sex" speech. This is a big overgeneralization. A woman doesn't have to be brainwashed to not want casual sex. Sure, for some people it is about religion or societal expectations, but some people just don't like having sex with a near stranger and never seeing them again. It doesn't mean they are obsessed with getting married, lots of women purposely practice serial monogomy. There are guys who don't want casual sex either, though the ratio is more skewed towards women. The original post was about girls demanding a committment before having sex. Having a 'committment' and 'knowing and having a connection' with someone so that you feel comfortable having sex them them are 2 different things. By the sound of it these girls aren't saying 'I don't know you well enough yet', or 'I don't feel ready, please by patient' at the point of sex, they are saying 'commit to me'.
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