Ladies, is this really true?

[Steadfast]

 

...but I'll continue to make changes, and if I don't get her back, then it wasn't God's will and I will have to accept it. Believe me, this is the hardest lesson to ever learn and one that will, I'm sure, be appreciated at some point and time. I just hope that it hasn't totally cost me the one whom I planned on spending the rest of my life with.

 

 

Hold on there cowboy! Don't go bringing God's will into this. We are not robots, not programmed. Mankind has free will...free to watch porn, leave their spouses, sleep around, whatever. We're warned, advised, given loving council and showed examples, but the choices are ours to make. Thinking there is some kind of controlling power will keep you from figuring out things for yourself. God gave you a brain; use it.

 

I'm not a woman...but I have experience with them. The women answering will give you better insight, but practical experience says when a woman pulls away from you pull away harder. At some point, you must be a man and part of that is never trying to convince a woman to love you. Again, experience say they either do, or don't. If she comes to you and it's clear she misses or needs you, then look into the situation and do the right thing. If she hasn't cheated, she's worth fighting for. Hold on loosely!

[Woggle]

Our marital counselor is far more responsible than that. In fact the one we had before was as well (we moved across the country). Any counselor with any basic training will not allow this to happen in session.

 

This has been the experience of most men who have been to MC. I have never been to one but I have not heard good things. My father said that the counselor him and my mother had pretty much just blamed everything on him.

[marksaysay]

Hold on there cowboy! Don't go bringing God's will into this. We are not robots, not programmed. Mankind has free will...free to watch porn, leave their spouses, sleep around, whatever. We're warned, advised, given loving council and showed examples, but the choices are ours to make. Thinking there is some kind of controlling power will keep you from figuring out things for yourself. God gave you a brain; use it.

 

I'm sorry you don't share my spiritual beliefs, but while i understand that we have a free will, I also believe that God directs us sometimes even through difficult situations such as this in order to teach us a lesson. I'm not saying that I'm not making my own decisions, but ultimately, what God wants to happen will happen and that's what I believe.

[marksaysay]

Probably not, most people don't like to be ignored. Don't forget to respond when the time is right

 

I should also clarify that I didn't totally ignore her, but I didn't go out of my way to try and engage her in conversation. We interacted some throughout the night, but nothing to serious.

 

Also, I'm starting to think that all you women are right. There may be no way that she and I get back together. I think she went and met up with some guy tonight. Her car was at another bar after she left the bowling alley. Do I know for sure? No, but that's what I'm thinking. And by the way, the bar was on the way home to the house where I'm currently staying alone.

[marksaysay]

Oh my goodness, I can't stop feeling so bad. I'm pretty sure that nothing I do will convince her that I'm ready to be the man she married again. I know I can't change her mind. I know I can't convince her. I know that you all tell me it's time to move on and work on me. It's just so hard. She spends so much time now on this dating website trying to meet new people. She, I believe was on a date last night. I believe that I am the farthest from her mind and that I will never be a part of her life anymore other than dealing with our daughter. I just started the 180 degree plan and it wasn't hard to do but at times she seemed affected by it and at others she didn't. I will continue to go to counseling and work on my self but I just want my wife back. I go in public and put up this fake persona as if everything is alright and that this situation does not bother me. But when I come home to an empty house, all the negative thoughts, the thoughts of her out with someone else, the thoughts of never getting her back set in and I feel so bad. The divorce process has just begun but I really think it's over. I want to remain positive and tell myself that I can get through this. I tell myself that she will at some point remember that she really does still love me as time passes. I tell myself that we'll have an even better relationship once all this passes but I might be just wishing for something that will never become a reality. It's just so difficult right now.

[LiveWell]

ultimately, what God wants to happen will happen and that's what I believe

 

If you truly believe this....

 

then start living it.

[marksaysay]

Livewell, thanks for the wakeup call. I do need to stop dwelling on what's not happening and concentrate on the only think I can control, ME. I will pray that God will strengthen me during these extremely difficult times and allow him to do what he may.

[beachbum84]

I feel bad for you. As one of the women who have posted here already I wasn't trying to say I thought you had no chance, I was just sharing what I felt when my husband did some similar things. I will say this. And again I cannot speak for your W or all women. But if my husband was willing to and actually did implement changes to the behavior that was so hurtful. I would stay. If you truly do change the things you say you are working on, nothing but good can come from it. Either your W will take notice and be pleasantly surprised by the change and in time come around (it will take time to trust that these are permanent changes). Or it will benefit you throughout the rest of your life with any relationships you may have with women down the road. I think you are learning some important lessons on how women process and feel differently than men do on different topics. As well as not ignoring problems, and learning to tackle them head on.

 

All you can do is try and better yourself, and in turn try to better what relationship you may have left with your W. Nothing is impossible. And some people are wired to believe a little to little to late. But some people hold on for a long time just waiting to see if things could change and work out. I can't help but wonder if b/c of the time it took you to turn around if she filed for D as a last resort. Kinda like there's nothing esle to do to get your attention. If she was truly serious about a D and moving on, I can't believe she'd still want to do activities with you weekly. Seems a little odd. Me personally. If my H and I actually were in the D process, I'd cut out any and all socializing with him. It would be to hurtful, and awkward. There has to be a reason that she still sees you twice a week.

[carhill]

My ex had no problem being in contact with me during our divorce, even as recently as last week. It's all business to her. Once I accepted that, things went a lot more smoothly. She was even trying to sell the court clerk on how 'fair' our settlement was. I just go

 

The OP will do well to make changes in himself and for himself, but to keep things with the petitioner (his wife) all business. She made a choice; a unilateral, proactive one, to dissolve a long-term legal partnership via lawsuit. Acceptance is key

[dreamingoftigers]

Oh my goodness, I can't stop feeling so bad. I'm pretty sure that nothing I do will convince her that I'm ready to be the man she married again. I know I can't change her mind. I know I can't convince her. I know that you all tell me it's time to move on and work on me. It's just so hard. She spends so much time now on this dating website trying to meet new people. She, I believe was on a date last night. I believe that I am the farthest from her mind and that I will never be a part of her life anymore other than dealing with our daughter. I just started the 180 degree plan and it wasn't hard to do but at times she seemed affected by it and at others she didn't. I will continue to go to counseling and work on my self but I just want my wife back. I go in public and put up this fake persona as if everything is alright and that this situation does not bother me. But when I come home to an empty house, all the negative thoughts, the thoughts of her out with someone else, the thoughts of never getting her back set in and I feel so bad. The divorce process has just begun but I really think it's over. I want to remain positive and tell myself that I can get through this. I tell myself that she will at some point remember that she really does still love me as time passes. I tell myself that we'll have an even better relationship once all this passes but I might be just wishing for something that will never become a reality. It's just so difficult right now.

 

These negative thoughts can break you down quickly, so you must make sure to take care of yourself so that you aren't dwelling in that zone.

 

The goal isn't to be filled with phony positivity, it is to adjust yourself to staying positive about the situation. If anything, that may make you more attractive to everyone and will help you get through the dark into the light even if your spouse does not come back.

 

When my husband took off back in March and wrote me emails that he would not be back and to back off, I stuck a little postcard by the steering wheel of my car that said "family is forever." (I am Mormon, we have a lot of those little cards). I 180ed on him and basically said that he would not be single-handedly deciding our child-support status and that if he wanted to separate he could do it in a way that would impact our child the least. I wrote him an email stating that our counselor helps families responsibly divorce and that if he wanted to split up, it could either be functional and we could plan for the split amicably or it could be dysfunctional and he would receive no co-operation from me. I told him that if he was voting for the functional split then he could book an appointment at our counselor's office and let me know the time and date and that we would both go in with the intention of starting an amicable separation and divorce, otherwise he was to have no contact with me and that I would not be responding to any other requests from him. (Hardest thing I have ever had to do) He did write me back saying that he felt I was bullying him and that what I was asking for wasn't fair. I simply didn't respond, he was used to me standing by waiting to respond to however he felt. He changed his tune completely when he realized that he couldn't just come and go as he pleased out of my life or his daughter's, he needed to make that choice one way or the other.

 

Sorry that was so rambly. Just illustrating that you need to respect your own personal boundaries as well.

[marksaysay]

I feel bad for you. As one of the women who have posted here already I wasn't trying to say I thought you had no chance, I was just sharing what I felt when my husband did some similar things. I will say this. And again I cannot speak for your W or all women. But if my husband was willing to and actually did implement changes to the behavior that was so hurtful. I would stay. If you truly do change the things you say you are working on, nothing but good can come from it. Either your W will take notice and be pleasantly surprised by the change and in time come around (it will take time to trust that these are permanent changes). Or it will benefit you throughout the rest of your life with any relationships you may have with women down the road. I think you are learning some important lessons on how women process and feel differently than men do on different topics. As well as not ignoring problems, and learning to tackle them head on.

 

All you can do is try and better yourself, and in turn try to better what relationship you may have left with your W. Nothing is impossible. And some people are wired to believe a little to little to late. But some people hold on for a long time just waiting to see if things could change and work out. I can't help but wonder if b/c of the time it took you to turn around if she filed for D as a last resort. Kinda like there's nothing esle to do to get your attention. If she was truly serious about a D and moving on, I can't believe she'd still want to do activities with you weekly. Seems a little odd. Me personally. If my H and I actually were in the D process, I'd cut out any and all socializing with him. It would be to hurtful, and awkward. There has to be a reason that she still sees you twice a week.

 

I will continue to work on me. I will continue to learn from this valuable experience moving forward. While it may be hard for her to believe since I've made changes before that didn't stick, I am committed to making changes whether or not we reconcile. I know I can't convince her, but i'm still going to continue on.

 

We had a brief discussion this afternoon concerning the living arrangements. I stated that, while we wait for our house to sell, I'm not in the financial position to care manage the home responsibilities. She said she would consider it but I needed to understand that she was going to date, so there may be people over from time to time. To me, the fact that she can so easily move to this step tells my gut that we're done and that she's ready to move forward. But then I also have the same thought as to why she would still be willing to be around me so often if she didn't think down in her heart that she loves me. It may be her chance to watch and see if I do make any changes. She also comes to the house today with a new toothbrush for me since I'd lost my regular one throughout the staying over here and there phase that I went through (Yes, I'm still brushing my teeth just with one of those travel toothbrushes). Maybe she was just trying to make a kind gesture or maybe she still does care. Who knows....

[HeavenOrHell]

I think sometimes once a woman OR man has made up their mind, that things can still be sorted, but if they keep saying 'it's too late' then it probably is, it was in my case. My ex left 3 times altogether, after the 2nd time he said he thought he wasn't in love with me anymore and that's why he left but he said he actually was in love still but it was easier to tell himself he wasn't, we were in a rut, he came back and we made more of an effort but he left again 12 years after that as I'd become so busy that he felt neglected, unwanted and unloved, I eventually tried to put things right but he kept saying he was worried it was too late. We were together 18 years.

And it was too late, his feelings for me had changed.

IMO try to put things right if you can, maybe go to relationship therapy together, things will become clearer in time, but it takes two and she may not be willing.

All I can say is nothing is set in stone, things can change, love can grow again, but that's not to say it will.

Bear in mind I've only read your first post here and not the others in this thread.

 

 

My wife recently filed for divorce saying that she "loved me but was no longer in love with me". She said that she was tired of not getting the attention she wanted and that she felt I could never give her what she wanted and needed. Understand that we've been married for 10 years and together for 12 years. Another component of the problem is my pornography addiction that I'm am now going to counseling for to get over. Is it really true, that once a woman makes up her mind, there is nothing you can do?

[marksaysay]

Today, she told me that she was just ready to move forward and that I should do the same. I'm beginning to believe this IS the end. I don't know if time will allow her heart to heal from all the heart I've caused her. I don't know if she was really meant to be with me for life. I don't know if it's just her hurt feelings talking or if it's really the way she feels. I must get over this, though. I still have a little hope, but I can not sit and wait.

[NoneTheWiser]

Even with everything thing you have done to force your wife away, I certainly feel for you. No man should have to sit at home and watch his wife date. Have you attempted to talk with her suggesting that either one should not bring any dates over to the house?

[carhill]

OP, can you clarify something for me....?

 

Right now, this minute, where are you living (sleeping), where is your wife living (sleeping) and where is your seven year old daughter living (sleeping)?

 

Your lawyer will ask you this question, or should. Like I've said prior in this thread, it's decisions you make right now, today, which will impact things down the road to a much larger degree than you currently anticipate. Snowballs can roll in all directions but generally downhill, and they get larger and more difficult to deflect as they go. Pick the healthy direction. That takes information and guidance

[marksaysay]

My dilimna is this, she's in a much better position to care for our marital home until it sells and I don't prefer that my daughter stay in as familiar an environment until changes have to be made. She would do it, I believe, regardless of the location. My only request was that she not, at this point, bring other men around our daughter until she is clear on what is going on. She understands somewhat but at 7 you can only understand so much.

[marksaysay]

OP, can you clarify something for me....?

 

Right now, this minute, where are you living (sleeping), where is your wife living (sleeping) and where is your seven year old daughter living (sleeping)?

 

Right now, I'm still living in our marital home. My wife and daughter have been staying with a good friend of hers. My daughter will stay with me 3 days and 4 with my wife. That's what we decided.

[carhill]

Your marital home is where your daughter is most comfortable and familiar; her friends are in the neighborhood; her school is nearby.

 

Unless you're extraordinarily fortunate, it will take awhile to sell that marital home. It will also likely take awhile to divorce. My ex and I agreed on everything and we had even bought a house for her prior to filing and it's still taken nearly a year, and no asset sales were involved.

 

I'll make this suggestion one last time. Take your scenario, your reasonable compromises, to a lawyer, along with the filed divorce petition, and get some advice. A good lawyer will likely recommend mediation, if available, or offer a la carte legal help, where you pay for complex things and do the simple stuff yourself.

 

My advice presumes you're a 'normal' person in mid-30's with assets, income and obligations. All of this, regardless of 'agreement', has to be detailed out and settled. It's far more complex than 'selling the house'.

 

My ex and I made our decision whether to recover the M or not within MC, and MC provided the clarity to proceed with the divorce amicably. You still have hopes of recovery, so I understand your mindset is different. It's OK to have that mindset, but take care of business too. Balance. The smoother everything goes, the less stress on the two of you, and, most importantly, your daughter.

[marksaysay]

The OP used the past tense 'had been', implying that his wife was 'moving on' prior to separating. He can clarify that.

 

Yes, prior to separating, I did discover the inappropriate activity including some explicit text messages. Someone has describe this as my wife being in the "fog". I don't think she's had any sexual contact, but what she has done is still against the marital vows.

 

OP, just so I'm clear, your wife *never* engaged in nor suggested MC, correct? Did you?

 

We went to counseling about a year ago, but she ended them saying I was uncooperative. I really wasn't, I just had so many things going on as did she, that we never did the suggested activity. She became furious when I stated I did not want to do the activity in front of the therapist and ended the sessions.

 

Just letting you all know that I am the wife to Mark. He is lying to each and every one of you. It has become increasing clear that you all are buying into the lies that I have heard for over 8 years. I am here to tell the whole freaking truth...He lies about anything and everything because he says that he does not want to hear my mouth. Well if you lie you will hear my mouth. I am grown and have no reason to lie about anything that i do. Mark has gone so far with his addiction that he has looked at porn when my sister was in town, my friend was here hanging out with me and while my daughter was in the same room. I have sat by and watched him walk out of the door as I beg him to spend time with me and our child. He completely has disregarded everything that I have attempted in the past. When it comes to the counselor, Mark decided that he did not like the counselor because the counselor told him that he was not going to be able to beat the addiction alone and he needed help. Mark does not like to be told that he cannot do something on his own. So when it came time for the "appology" assignment he would not do it. After I asked numerous times. So why am I going to take money out of my savings account to go and talk about my marital problems if he isn't into it. The addiction is not the only issue that Mark and I have...he just needs to be real and tell the truth. He is calling all of my family and not telling the whole truth on anything. How about how he never does anything for our child..but he loves us so much right. I pay for everything all activities, all of her clothes, anything that she needs. I cannot remember the last time that he brought her anything for christmas...he's a real piece of work. I needed to get on her and clear some things up and let you all know he is a liar and the truth ain't in him.

[karnak]

????????

[dreamingoftigers]

 

Just letting you all know that I am the wife to Mark. He is lying to each and every one of you. It has become increasing clear that you all are buying into the lies that I have heard for over 8 years. I am here to tell the whole freaking truth...He lies about anything and everything because he says that he does not want to hear my mouth. Well if you lie you will hear my mouth. I am grown and have no reason to lie about anything that i do. Mark has gone so far with his addiction that he has looked at porn when my sister was in town, my friend was here hanging out with me and while my daughter was in the same room. I have sat by and watched him walk out of the door as I beg him to spend time with me and our child. He completely has disregarded everything that I have attempted in the past. When it comes to the counselor, Mark decided that he did not like the counselor because the counselor told him that he was not going to be able to beat the addiction alone and he needed help. Mark does not like to be told that he cannot do something on his own. So when it came time for the "appology" assignment he would not do it. After I asked numerous times. So why am I going to take money out of my savings account to go and talk about my marital problems if he isn't into it. The addiction is not the only issue that Mark and I have...he just needs to be real and tell the truth. He is calling all of my family and not telling the whole truth on anything. How about how he never does anything for our child..but he loves us so much right. I pay for everything all activities, all of her clothes, anything that she needs. I cannot remember the last time that he brought her anything for christmas...he's a real piece of work. I needed to get on her and clear some things up and let you all know he is a liar and the truth ain't in him.

 

1. I have a husband with the same problem and he has been a stubborn ass for the past year about treatment. Most of them are. They worry about giving up their drug and trying out life without the crutch.

 

2. You can get your own loveshack account by registering.

 

3. It may be helpful to go to some meetings yourself. As a spouse of someone who is addicted it does weird things to you. You really wonder if what you are perceiving is actually going on, especially because they are so adamant that it isn't.

 

4. You sound angry, I get it. I am too. If you would like to chat about it at some point you can email me direct as well [email protected]. No, that isn't my real name. I also have a list of resources for wives that deal with this stuff.

 

5. He may very well love his family but the addiction has consumed any good sense he may have (i.e. paying attention to his daughter). The addiction (plus lack of honesty) really blinds these guys to what is actually going on in their life. My husband told me once the porn was out of his life that he thought he had always deeply loved his daughter from the moment she came along but now that he stopped the porn he sees that he is way more interested in her (I hope that doesn't sound sick) and that he didn't realize all of the quality time he was missing with her because his brain was so fogged.

 

6. It seems like you still have some feelings for him and he for you since you both posted up here (how cute that you share an account too ). Perhaps there is still some emotional intimacy left in your relationship despite the issues. Men with this issue often can't see that their behaviour has killed off intimacy and wives often respond in a way that does so as well. Really I am sure that you don't care what a bunch of strangers on a forum think of your husband's situation.

 

7. Of course the truth ain't in him now, he is addicted and not in active recovery. Addiction and truth are not bedmates. Is his seeing a sex and porn addiction specialist? Often this is far beyond the scope of regular counseling and marital counseling.

 

Pornography addiction is a subset of sexual addiction (and often fuels it and vice versa) one book that may be helpful to you (even if you have decided not to stay together) is Hope and Freedom for Sex Addicts and their Partners. Another helpful resource is: candeo, just punch it into google.

 

It would be a good thing to look into if even just to find out why you ended up with an addict and to avoid it in the future.

 

Good luck in healing from this.

[marksaysay]

As you all may guess, I didn't know my wife would find my thread. But I'm not really upset about it because she did it. Nothing she said was untrue other than the reference to me calling her family. I openly admitted to everyone that I talked to about my pornography addiction, her mother, her aunt, & her step mom. No, i didn't go into great detail about every episode over the years, but I did admit that to them. I think that she's mad right now, also because I told her family some of the things she's been doing. Her aunt won't even accept my phone call. Understand that when I talked with them, it was to reveal everything that's going on with us not just the things I've done wrong.

 

From dreamingoftigers:

 

5. He may very well love his family but the addiction has consumed any good sense he may have (i.e. paying attention to his daughter). The addiction (plus lack of honesty) really blinds these guys to what is actually going on in their life. My husband told me once the porn was out of his life that he thought he had always deeply loved his daughter from the moment she came along but now that he stopped the porn he sees that he is way more interested in her (I hope that doesn't sound sick) and that he didn't realize all of the quality time he was missing with her because his brain was so fogged.

 

I do love my family, but unfortunately it had to take a situation like this to force me to get help. I am actively in counseling and doing quite well. I've been home alone for several nights and have not indulged in that activity, which is really good. I think the confessions helped because no longer do I have to hide it. I'm on my way to beating this thing. I just wish I could prove it to my wife.

 

6. It seems like you still have some feelings for him and he for you since you both posted up here (how cute that you share an account too ). Perhaps there is still some emotional intimacy left in your relationship despite the issues. Men with this issue often can't see that their behaviour has killed off intimacy and wives often respond in a way that does so as well. Really I am sure that you don't care what a bunch of strangers on a forum think of your husband's situation.

 

I also think she still has feelings, but is just extremely mad about everything. I still love her and am praying that we could get through this. I'm not so sure that she doesn't care about what you guys are saying or she wouldn't have got on here.

 

Update: I just talked to her about her reply and I told her that I wasn't on here to bash her or anything, but that I was just trying to find a way to help us through this. I told her that I've learned so much as a result of reading these threads and other books and that I wanted an opportunity to show her what I'd learned. She said I should have learned it years ago. She also stated that if I would've just left her alone at the beginning, which was about 3 weeks ago, she would've considered it, but not now. I told her I had planned to until I found out that she'd signed up for a dating site the day after she asked me to leave. Knowing that she was on the dating site made me want to try even harder. I found out that she'd sent explicit texts and I wanted to try harder. I found out she began having extended conversations with at least a couple of guys and I wanted to try even harder. I very well may never get the opportunity to show her what I've learned and that I AM actively doing something to get past the porn addiction. I think alot of it has to do with her not wanting to stop the activities which she has began. I just wanted her activities to stop.

Edited October 24, 2010 by marksaysay

[dreamingoftigers]

As you all may guess, I didn't know my wife would find my thread. But I'm not really upset about it because she did it. Nothing she said was untrue other than the reference to me calling her family. I openly admitted to everyone that I talked to about my pornography addiction, her mother, her aunt, & her step mom. No, i didn't go into great detail about every episode over the years, but I did admit that to them. That's got to be pretty humiliating for her. I think that she's mad right now, also because I told her family some of the things she's been doing. Her aunt won't even accept my phone call. Understand that when I talked with them, it was to reveal everything that's going on with us not just the things I've done wrong. Probably best to keep them in the dark until the two of you have resolved things one way or the other, it really isn't anyone else's business. As well I have learned the hard way that the more family you draw into marital issues can really make it a lot worse.

 

From dreamingoftigers:

 

5. He may very well love his family but the addiction has consumed any good sense he may have (i.e. paying attention to his daughter). The addiction (plus lack of honesty) really blinds these guys to what is actually going on in their life. My husband told me once the porn was out of his life that he thought he had always deeply loved his daughter from the moment she came along but now that he stopped the porn he sees that he is way more interested in her (I hope that doesn't sound sick) and that he didn't realize all of the quality time he was missing with her because his brain was so fogged.

 

I do love my family, but unfortunately it had to take a situation like this to force me to get help. I am actively in counseling and doing quite well. I've been home alone for several nights and have not indulged in that activity, which is really good. I think the confessions helped because no longer do I have to hide it. Once the illicit factor is gone, porn does become less thrilling. That is also why you should be accountable to someone. I'm on my way to beating this thing. I just wish I could prove it to my wife. Polygraph, seriously. A lot of sexual addiction specialists now recommend disclosure and a polygraph to help spouses re-establish trust.

 

6. It seems like you still have some feelings for him and he for you since you both posted up here (how cute that you share an account too ). Perhaps there is still some emotional intimacy left in your relationship despite the issues. Men with this issue often can't see that their behaviour has killed off intimacy and wives often respond in a way that does so as well. Really I am sure that you don't care what a bunch of strangers on a forum think of your husband's situation.

 

I also think she still has feelings, but is just extremely mad about everything. I still love her and am praying that we could get through this. I'm not so sure that she doesn't care about what you guys are saying or she wouldn't have got on here. (Not saying, but thinking about her and you)

 

Update: I just talked to her about her reply and I told her that I wasn't on here to bash her or anything, but that I was just trying to find a way to help us through this. I told her that I've learned so much as a result of reading these threads and other books and that I wanted an opportunity to show her what I'd learned. She said I should have learned it years ago. (Well you should have, but since you haven't invented a time machine you can only offer up so much, up to her if she would like to accept a healthy partner with whom she has shared emotional intimacy. If you are 100% serious about recovering then you can let her know that she can stand by and watch the process unfolding or she can leave and try to find another healthy partner but the better odds may actually be on you now, of course depending on your determination to beat this thing. Unfortunately a lot of sexual addicts (porn addiction is a subset of that) don't learn until they have deeply sliced into the very life of their relationships.)

 

She also stated that if I would've just left her alone at the beginning, which was about 3 weeks ago, she would've considered it, but not now. I told her I had planned to until I found out that she'd signed up for a dating site the day after she asked me to leave. Knowing that she was on the dating site made me want to try even harder. I found out that she'd sent explicit texts and I wanted to try harder. I found out she began having extended conversations with at least a couple of guys and I wanted to try even harder. I very well may never get the opportunity to show her what I've learned and that I AM actively doing something to get past the porn addiction. I think alot of it has to do with her not wanting to stop the activities which she has began. I just wanted her activities to stop. (Well now you have a little taste of what this all feels like, try letting her know that you can empathize with her a little now. I would tell her that you understand how badly you must have hurt her. )[/QUOTE]

 

The fact that she is pissed off enough to come on here is not actually a bad sign. When people are still hurting they lash out. The online thing with guys is totally obvious at this point:

 

1.She wants to be desirable because your actions have sent home a message that she is not (and you have also driven home that she is not worthy of your respect.)

 

2. It is kind of an "f you. You can look at porn but I am going to go get someone real that is better or hey look, I can tell this marriage to shove it too." It may even cause you a little personal embarassment, like I am sure she has felt.

 

3. She is using it to escape the pain that the marriage, and the subsequent failure of it has caused.

 

4. She wants to move on from this. By engaging other people she can try to force intimacy or at least sex with another faster then the usual process. (Notice this is last on the list)

 

Contrary to popular opinion on here (I was hoping to be able to PM you on here but it seems like you shouldn't wait) I think you should actually make yourself VERY emotionally vulnerable to this woman. She will most likely shut you down, but it will stick with her. Tell her how you miss her, apologize for everything you put her through. Tell her specific things in your marriage and about her personally that you are going to miss that will break your heart. (Like maybe the way she cooks you bacon or the wy she sounds/looks during sex) Tell her you want her to be happy and not disappointed and pissed off at you and bitter about your marriage. Tell her the steps you are willing to take (be specific) to fix things and then follow through on them. Tell her that you want a healthy, happy family and that you realize you haven't been there for your daughter the way a father should be. Tell her the steps you are willing to take for that and then follow through on them too. Sounds like a lot, but it is all important.

 

The day my husband looked me in the eyes, cried and apologized for all that he had put me through and then held me while I cried was one that really stuck with me and edged me far closer to forgiveness. (Of course he did put me through it again, but that is another fun story). I didn't believe him the moment he said it and I did shut him down (walls take years to build and quite some to to tear down). What it did though is soften me for another chance.

 

Many times I in the last year I have threatened to leave my husband and become very frustrated with him. Recovery is a frustrating, bumpy road. But we are still here working on it.

 

(Make sure that you are actually listening to her response though, DO NOT interrupt her or let it get explosive, even if she is exploding) If she completely shuts you down, then 180 on her.

 

The fact that she posted on here the way she did tells me she is not done with this relationship. Even if she hates you right now, that is better then nothing at all. Do not give up on yourself. Look at this as a chance to prove to yourself that you are not going to let this thing beat you and your family. Flex those new mental muscles. Good luck to you.

[marksaysay]

At this point, I've done enough talking. The only thing I can do now is show her my changes. I'm gonna start with quitting smoking. The pornography has already declined to a halt. I'm reading divorce busting and will start implementing those concepts which are much like the 180. Ive talked enough.

[Owl]

To Marksaysay's wife (if she comes back):

 

I get that his online activities has pretty much destroyed the love/trust/respect you once had for him...totally understandable.

 

I understand that after years of dealing with this, you're done and ready to divorce....again...makes sense to me.

 

Where I struggle is how you reconcile all of that into making your going onto dating sites (which most people equate to mental porn) while still married as in any way acceptable???

 

If you're done, you're done. But you're not yet divorced, and he claims to be making an effort here...which makes your actions here much more...'suspect'.

 

Last I looked...two wrongs were still two wrongs.