Woggle Posted October 22, 2010 Posted October 22, 2010 I'm going to bookmark this thread as an example of how a woman is absolved of her marital responsibility by *some* when her husband uses porn. Shall I have used the same 'rationalization' regarding the stacks of romance novels my ex-wife had in the bedroom and made required reading every night? Wow, my affair's all better now, see? No, it's not. That's called taking personal responsibility, something the OP says his wife has a hard time doing. OK, bookmarked. Carry on... True but yet somehow when a woman actually cheats which is worse than porn a man is still to blame.
carhill Posted October 22, 2010 Posted October 22, 2010 Wogs, TBH, and I prefer to paint a balanced picture and support the OP in his desire for reconciliation, by the standards of LS, IMO she already cheated, and prior to separating. We've all seen the signs and read the myriad of threads. What we can do as men is push back. Reject the blame and stand firm in that rejection. We also take responsibility for *our* actions and words. The OP knows who he was in the marriage. I hope he takes responsibility for that and, based on his posts, he appears to have been/is taking steps in that direction. I hope he continues. That said, I *strongly* encourage him not to roll over wrt this divorce filing. It's serious stuff. Don't think it's something one can 'talk her out of'. It may not end up a divorce, but don't predicate action upon that hope. Take it for what it is. Accept
Author marksaysay Posted October 22, 2010 Author Posted October 22, 2010 I am definitely not claiming to have done nothing wrong. I'm going in the right direction as last night was a prime example. Home alone all night and no porn. I just wish she would understand that as dr. Phil says in his book, Relationship Rescue, both parties are 100% responsible for their issues. I will just keep praying and if this is the end, then so be it. I've tried.
Woggle Posted October 22, 2010 Posted October 22, 2010 You could burn all your porn and became an anti-porn crusader and it would not matter one bit. You are the cause of her unhappiness in her mind and nothing you can say or do will change that until she actually gets out there and realizes that life is not this wonderful SATC kind of existence once she gets rid of you.
Doing it Since '78 Posted October 22, 2010 Posted October 22, 2010 I think you should do some more digging, I imagine more went on/going on than just an EA, and if she is not even willing to talk recon with you, she already has somebody else in her undies
soserious1 Posted October 22, 2010 Posted October 22, 2010 I'm going to bookmark this thread as an example of how a woman is absolved of her marital responsibility by *some* when her husband uses porn. Shall I have used the same 'rationalization' regarding the stacks of romance novels my ex-wife had in the bedroom and made required reading every night? Wow, my affair's all better now, see? No, it's not. That's called taking personal responsibility, something the OP says his wife has a hard time doing. OK, bookmarked. Carry on... how about you also add the part where the OP admits his wife went to MC with him and only ended the sessions when the OP flat out refused to do the work the therapist suggested?
Author marksaysay Posted October 22, 2010 Author Posted October 22, 2010 I think you should do some more digging' date=' I imagine more went on/going on than just an EA, and if she is not even willing to talk recon with you, she already has somebody else in her undies[/quote'] I prefer not to do any more digging. The previous digging only caused me to be more hurt and her to be more defensive and standoffish. I know she still has love for me but may not be in love with me. I prefer to acknowledge that she may be on the verge of having a PA, if she has not already. I acknowledge that I may have already lost her. I going to implement the 180 degree Divorce Buster idea from Marriage Builder and hope for the best. Understand that ultimately, all I want is another chance to be the man I know I once was and the man that I can be again WITH her. I know that it might not happen, but it might. I'll continue to get a grasp on my issues including the porn addiction, and I'll be ready for the next relationship.
Author marksaysay Posted October 22, 2010 Author Posted October 22, 2010 how about you also add the part where the OP admits his wife went to MC with him and only ended the sessions when the OP flat out refused to do the work the therapist suggested? I did not "flat out refuse". Our options were to do them at the session in front of the therapist, or just with the two of us. I wanted to do it with just the two of us and both of us were partly responsible for why that had not been done at that time. I was willing to do it, it just had not gotten done. Both of us were extremely busy at that time. Thinking back, i should have done it in front of therapist, but I didn't refuse to do it.
carhill Posted October 22, 2010 Posted October 22, 2010 how about you also add the part where the OP admits his wife went to MC with him and only ended the sessions when the OP flat out refused to do the work the therapist suggested? How about that? OP, what was the activity that the therapist wanted you to do in front of him/her? I recall, in MC, my ex-wife refusing to share certain aspects of her history and certain perspectives about our marriage and our psychologist did not push beyond asking her how she felt when hearing the questions. MC is tough stuff. I did a lot of it. I don't know one male in my social circle who's been to MC or would go to MC. Many, when I shared my experience, flat out told me they'd 'never go'. Well, that's one perspective I guess. OP, how many sessions did you attend?
Woggle Posted October 22, 2010 Posted October 22, 2010 I would rather be waterboarded than go to MC. It is simply where the man sits and gets grilled on all his faults while his wife takes responsibility for nothing and if he does happen to get a fair counselor she will throw a fit.
carhill Posted October 22, 2010 Posted October 22, 2010 Wogs, I can accept your feelings about MC and they indeed mirror those of many of my male friends. We had a fair (male) counselor, who was also a psychologist and specialized in recovering marriages with abuse in the background of the spouses. He was nothing like many of the counselors whom I read about here on LS. He remembered everything and was very proactive and balanced. My ex *did not* get a free ride, nor did I. We were there to work, and we did. Additionally, for the OP, he and his wife have faith/religion, and there are avenues to clarity, resolution and acceptance from that perspective as well. My bottom line was, for myself, the situation was hell and nothing I was trying was working, and I had already screwed up badly with an EA, so, when my exW suggested MC, I jumped at it. Did it save the marriage? NO..... Was it worth the effort? YES .... IMO.
Author marksaysay Posted October 22, 2010 Author Posted October 22, 2010 How about that? OP, what was the activity that the therapist wanted you to do in front of him/her? OP, how many sessions did you attend? I can't remember the activity exactly, but I believe it involved introspection and self examination and openly revealing your discoveries to the other. Something like that. I really wanted to do it, we were both so busy and I really forgot. I believe we went to like 3 or 4 sessions before she canceled.
carhill Posted October 22, 2010 Posted October 22, 2010 Ah, get-acquainted sessions; kinda like the first date or two. I misunderstood your prior verbiage and thought the therapist wanted you to do a specific activity in their presence, but rather it appears to have been an activity away from therapy and you were 'too busy' and didn't get it done. Yeah, we did a lot of stuff like that, but we were in MC for over a year, averaging about three sessions a month. Is mediation offered in your jurisdiction as an alternative to court? Have you read the lawsuit and do you understand what it means? There are motions contained within it which the court can rule upon, especially if you do not file a timely response. Each jurisdiction is different. My posts, and experience, reflect the continuing perspective that one can work towards recovery, but accept that, right now, her mind is made up. If she was playing some sort of mind game with you, is that truly someone you want to be with? She seems pretty decisive in her actions, terminating MC and proactively, and without discussion, filing for divorce. If you think you can wait and things will change, I wish you well on that journey. Personally, I'd like to see men become more proactive and end marriages which aren't healthy nor reconcilable for them. I think we can learn a lot from women in that regard. I did my part. If your M is unhealthy and irreconcilable, I hope you do yours too. Hope for the best and plan for the rest....
You Go Girl Posted October 22, 2010 Posted October 22, 2010 Trying to look at this objectively, let's pretend it wasn't porn. Let's pretend it was ANYTHING that was a problem that went unsolved for TEN YEARS! At what point does a wife or husband give up trying? Is it not healthy for a person to give up eventually? Is it unhealthy to never give up, but have some issue causing constant stress, anger, and hurt feelings? The OP and his wife have conflict resolution problems. They are unable to solve problems together in a reasonable time frame.
hopesndreams Posted October 22, 2010 Posted October 22, 2010 My wife recently filed for divorce saying that she "loved me but was no longer in love with me". She said that she was tired of not getting the attention she wanted and that she felt I could never give her what she wanted and needed. Understand that we've been married for 10 years and together for 12 years. Another component of the problem is my pornography addiction that I'm am now going to counseling for to get over. Is it really true, that once a woman makes up her mind, there is nothing you can do? Pretty much yeah. A man can have an A without emotional attachment. Quite rare for a woman to do the same. So when she says "it's over", not much can change her mind. She has been with you for 22 years and unless this porn addiction of yours is a recent thing, your porn addiction has nothing to do with her decision.
You Go Girl Posted October 22, 2010 Posted October 22, 2010 [/b] She has been with you for 22 years and unless this porn addiction of yours is a recent thing, your porn addiction has nothing to do with her decision. Not necessarily true at all. Many people stay with alcoholics, drug addicts, etc., for decades before giving up.
hopesndreams Posted October 22, 2010 Posted October 22, 2010 Not necessarily true at all. Many people stay with alcoholics, drug addicts, etc., for decades before giving up. True. What I am really saying is, she has found someone else.
Author marksaysay Posted October 22, 2010 Author Posted October 22, 2010 (edited) Not necessarily true at all. Many people stay with alcoholics, drug addicts, etc., for decades before giving up. That's so true. My uncle has one of those kinda women. His drug addiction has him in and out of jail. While it has only been 10 year for us, in the beginning she used to actually watch them with me. Not saying that she actually approved, but we watched them together. I still love her greatly and I'm willing to do anything to stop this divorce. I will continue with my counseling to help with my addiction as well as learn more about my relationship so it won't continue to be an issue in this relationship, if there remains to be one, or the next one. Edited October 22, 2010 by marksaysay
Author marksaysay Posted October 22, 2010 Author Posted October 22, 2010 Update: tonight, while bowling together, it doesn't seem my wife likes that I'm pretty much ignoring her. Atleast that's my perception. Maybe I'm looking too much hoping that we can reconcile before the divorce is finalized, but I don't really think she likes it.
dreamingoftigers Posted October 23, 2010 Posted October 23, 2010 The OP used the past tense 'had been', implying that his wife was 'moving on' prior to separating. He can clarify that. Yes, prior to separating, I did discover the inappropriate activity including some explicit text messages. Someone has describe this as my wife being in the "fog". I don't think she's had any sexual contact, but what she has done is still against the marital vows. OP, just so I'm clear, your wife *never* engaged in nor suggested MC, correct? Did you? We went to counseling about a year ago, but she ended them saying I was uncooperative. I really wasn't, I just had so many things going on as did she, that we never did the suggested activity. She became furious when I stated I did not want to do the activity in front of the therapist and ended the sessions. My husband and I have had the same problems, but the reality is that once your are far gone enough in your marriage to require MC, you HAVE TO MAKE IT THE PRIORITY. Sounds like like she an exit EA/PA. Not just blaming u dude, just trying to help break it down.
dreamingoftigers Posted October 23, 2010 Posted October 23, 2010 I would rather be waterboarded than go to MC. It is simply where the man sits and gets grilled on all his faults while his wife takes responsibility for nothing and if he does happen to get a fair counselor she will throw a fit. Our marital counselor is far more responsible than that. In fact the one we had before was as well (we moved across the country). Any counselor with any basic training will not allow this to happen in session.
dreamingoftigers Posted October 23, 2010 Posted October 23, 2010 Update: tonight, while bowling together, it doesn't seem my wife likes that I'm pretty much ignoring her. Atleast that's my perception. Maybe I'm looking too much hoping that we can reconcile before the divorce is finalized, but I don't really think she likes it. Probably not, most people don't like to be ignored. Don't forget to respond when the time is right
LiveWell Posted October 23, 2010 Posted October 23, 2010 I prefer not to do any more digging. The previous digging only caused me to be more hurt and her to be more defensive and standoffish. Digging is not necessary. The important things are no longer hidden.
You Go Girl Posted October 23, 2010 Posted October 23, 2010 Digging is not necessary. The important things are no longer hidden. Such true words... now it's all about communication that was lacking. Is it going to happen, or isn't it?
Gunny376 Posted October 23, 2010 Posted October 23, 2010 Counseling ~ 'smaoulesing!' Whatever! The fact of the matter is that "What it takes to get her? Is what it takes to get keep her! And its even more than that? There are so many 'wildcard' variables to any and all relationships? Be you a man or be you a woman? You've got to keep 'your eye on the ball' and concentrate on the fundamentals of why you form the relationship to begin with? What is the foundation? Why did you get together to begin with? What are the short-term, intermediate and long-term goals of the relationship? The fact of the matter is? Most and any and all relationships are doomed for failure to begin with? This is simply because of what I term as the Gunny Equation? That is to say that "All of the crap that you've got to go through, put up with, deal with, choke down own per the investment of time, effort, energy and money simply isn't worth the effort of same! In short its just simpler to be single and alone ~ you simple cannot go wrong being with and by yourself. If your seeking so-called true love, devotion and dedication? GET A DOG! What so many people (both men and women) simply don't understand is that in those periods in between when they are in love and not in love are those period in which they need to get back to rejoining, and falling in love all over again. And that over the course of a LTR relationship? Be it marriage or whatever? A couple that makes it over the long haul? They're going to fall in and out of love four, five, or six times or more over the course of the marriage/relationship? Hell I would say that given your atypical couple? That even they may love each other ~ even be in love with one another? But that doesn't necessarily mean that they like each other? Its like most of us with out parents? WE don't necessarily have to always agree with them, approve of them, nor even like them ~ but for most of us? We have to love them ~ even if we hate them? Its like the fellow I read about in the book "Crazy Time!" a book about divorce. In it the DH stuck his nose to the corporate grindstone and finally after years and years came home with roses and wine to tell the DW that he had been promoted to corporate VP with the corner office on the top floor and a key to the executive bathroom. The kids were long grown and gone and own their own. It was just the two of them? Just looked at the roses and wine and set them aside on the hallway veranda and simple said: "That's terrific! I just wished that you had spent more time with the children and I as a family while they were growing up? You missed all the holidays, the birthdays, the special events, the plays, the games........................" A lot of this is societal and social conditioning. Me? A lot of my former co-workers are Hell bent for leather to "living the American Dream" ~ the expensive cars, the 2500 + sq ft houses etc. And they're all stressed to the max! Me? I catching the bus to Mexico and Margaritaville! I'm downsizing and going by the falling equation ~ (If you will) Maximize income Minimize living expenses Eradicate any and all debt Maximize savings!
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