Titles.

[Kamille]

Okay...well, I'm just going to have to talk to him. I really have no idea what went through his head when we were talking about it earlier.

 

I think what was going on through his head was a need for control.

 

Tigress, I'll be honest. I'm still undecided about how healthy this relationship is. You're crazy about him, you've been crazy about him since day one and I wonder if sometimes it makes you accept unacceptable behavior.

 

I don't really care about this particular "titles" issue. What concerns me is that he seems to have a pattern: he likes to find ways to let you know that he's in charge of the relationship. You consistently have to accept his version of events, allegedly because he's used the strongest card anyone can play against anyone else: whenever you try to assert your needs, he reminds you that he thinks you are self-centered.

 

It's far from being the first time you report he's pulled the rug from under you while you were having a somewhat innocuous conversation. This bothers me because in the threads you posted about this relationship, you both seem to think that you, Tigress, are the one who is mostly responsible for "the drama" that goes on in your relationship. Meanwhile, I would argue he provokes drama by consistently putting his needs first and denying the validity of yours. He keeps you guessing, on your toes, insecure.

 

In your shoes, the conversation I would have now with him would involve me telling him what I expect out of a someone before I decide they are worthy of being my bf: support and security.

[ascendotum]

True, anyone can leave. But as posters have indicated, he'll have less guilt leaving AND would also be able to tell a prospective woman that he doesn't have a girlfriend making him look less like an @ss. Make no mistake, you're his FWB and on probation, either because he is waiting for someone more compatible to come along or waiting for your relationship to prove it won't break up again. I would seriously consider Fructose's posts. And finally I would avoid the sarcastic smileys if I wanted to appear grown up.

 

No doubt its not what you would like to think or want tigressA, but from what I've read, this last page of posts from the guys, is calling it like it is.

[threebyfate]

I agree with Kamille except for this:

In your shoes, the conversation I would have now with him would involve me telling him what I expect out of a someone before I decide they are worthy of being my bf: support and security.

Instead, I would have an unemotional discussion with him to clarify his position. Then, if his response was ambiguous and no matter what, wouldn't clarify; or negative such as exclusive FWB, I would tell him I needed some time to digest this. Calmly mull over it with no contact for a few days to decide if it's something I could live with or not, and then cut bait or not.

 

Tigress, you know I don't trust this guy but it's very possible that I'm wrong. Just be careful.

[Chocolat]

What I find interesting is that the guys seem to be saying this is a bad sign, while the women (excepting Kamille) are suggesting all is well.

 

Whose perception do you think most closely matches C's mindset?

[tigressA]

I agree with Kamille except for this:

 

Instead, I would have an unemotional discussion with him to clarify his position. Then, if his response was ambiguous and no matter what, wouldn't clarify; or negative such as exclusive FWB, I would tell him I needed some time to digest this. Calmly mull over it with no contact for a few days to decide if it's something I could live with or not, and then cut bait or not.

 

Tigress, you know I don't trust this guy but it's very possible that I'm wrong. Just be careful.

 

Yeah, this is what I'm going to do. Sorry Kam, I have to disagree with your post, if only because things have improved between us with regard to what you're talking about. It's been awhile since anything like that has happened.

 

I mistakenly gave him the impression that I was fine with what was going on when we talked yesterday. I forgot to do the "This upsets me, but I need some time to figure out why, and then discuss it with you" thing. I did say that it "bothered" me and it seemed like he was just holding back instead of letting things develop naturally, but he assured me he isn't, asked me to just give it a little more time.

[make me believe]

I completely agree with Fructose & the others who have said this is bad news. Basically two are "exclusive FWB." How very convenient for him! He gets the sex he wants without having to commit to a real relationship, but the "exclusive" label keeps you thinking that something more is there and that a proper bf/gf label will come eventually. Meanwhile, he's got an easy out because he's made no real commitment to you. I would not be surprised if you hear the words "but you were never my girlfriend..." in the future.

 

Being sexually exclusive is VERY different than being a committed couple. IMO it speaks volumes that he's willing to have sex with you but he won't call you his girlfriend. His "very very good friend" -- how insulting! He's leaving himself a ton of wiggle room here.

[Jannah]

We can all analyze this until we are blue in the face.

 

"C" is not emotionally invested at this point. That's not to say, he does not care about Tigress, it's just he is not emotionally invested enough.

 

Tigress has to figure out on her own, if she can live with that, and to what extent.

 

Carhill's analogy is one example of the various stages of a relationship.

 

Another dynamic could be:

Attraction > Dating > Uncertainty > Exclusivity > Intimacy, etc.

[carhill]

Very true. My example presumed positive feelings. Perhaps indicative of my relatively small sample, anyone I've dated exclusively has become my girlfriend. I don't get to exclusively easy. My experiences while separated mirror that and are an example of a personal style.

 

I guess that's part of what I want to understand here; the OP's personal style; how she progresses. Are we seeing how early sex clutters up the landscape? Would the landscape be cluttered anyway? Is she being true to her style? Is there a battle going on between her boundaries and attraction? IDK.

 

Each experience teaches. Hope it works out

[2sure]

. He said he understood, but to just let things come naturally, let's be more acquainted with each other. He said that things are really good and are definitely going in the right direction. I said, "Okay. I can be patient then, knowing that."

 

Tigress -

 

You have been seeing and being intimate with this man for awhile now havent you?

Now I'm not saying that being exclusive has to be the goal or that things shouldnt go slow and be considered...

 

But you WANT to be exclusive, you WANT him to be your BF and for him to consider you his GF and he knows that

 

He dangles that in front of you like a carrot. Its odd.

[tigressA]

We ARE exclusive. Why the hell isn't anyone getting that? It's been that way from the get-go. We don't have sex with/entertain romance with anyone else. Period. End of discussion on that note.

 

Anyway, I wrote him an email...it was kind of abrasive. It'll definitely prompt serious further discussion though.

[2sure]

Yes, I know that you are exclusive but from what you have said about your conversations with him on the subject...you are exclusive but there has been no committment to being exclusive.

 

But if there has been...then you are his gf, even if he doesnt use the word.

[carhill]

OP, let's presume you are exclusive and he considers (and introduces) you as his girlfriend and he your boyfriend. Are you aware of any social and/or cultural ramifications of that in his culture which would cause him to be concerned about or fear that title? I call this a possible 'fear of inevitability'. For example, in his culture, if he were to title you as his girlfriend, would he be expected to marry you? Sounds outlandish, but there ya go. Comment?

[allina]

I'm interested in the "drama" you said you have had with him each time you see him and why you separated for 3 weeks. Could these things be related?

[tigressA]

Yes, I know that you are exclusive but from what you have said about your conversations with him on the subject...you are exclusive but there has been no committment to being exclusive.

 

But if there has been...then you are his gf, even if he doesnt use the word.

 

There has been a commitment to being exclusive. We explicitly discussed it. He was the one who brought it up, in fact. We agreed to be exclusive.

 

Carhill, there definitely are ramifications with that terminology that are pretty much exactly what you suggested.

 

Allina, it was just...little arguments that escalated because of misunderstandings/failure to properly communicate. There hasn't been any of that at all lately; things have really improved. We split for 3 weeks as the result of a really big argument. We didn't talk at all during that time, and then he called me one day...rest is history.

[Anela]

I guess I'm butt-hurt because he used the word "friend". If he had left that word alone I would've felt better about it. But because he used that word I felt like I'm no more important or special to him than any of his other friends, even though I know that's contrary to the actual situation. I think he just didn't know how else to describe it.

 

I'm just trying to see it from his perspective too, instead of just being all "Me me me!" like I have every time before. I didn't hide the fact that I was upset over what he said. He understood why I was upset. I'm confident that I'll have the title soon; he said as much. I feel better knowing that this way of doing things isn't so unique.

 

Edit: Yes, I know for a fact that this is a mutually exclusive relationship. We established exclusivity months ago; we were basically exclusive by default from the very beginning. I trust him.

 

I would be hurt, too. If you're going to get the title eventually, then why not give it to you right now? I don't get it.

[LittleTiger]

I'm really surprised at how certain everybody is that their own viewpoint is correct. My first post on this thread questioned the exclusivity of this relationship (on his side) based on the birth control question the OP mentioned. She says the relationship is exclusive and we have no reason to disbelieve her - regardless of his 'you're not my girlfriend' comments.

 

To be honest, as they've already had unprotected sex (and presumably both got tested before doing so?) then if this guy is sleeping with other women he is the lowest level of scum that exists on this planet - and I just don't get the impression that he's quite that bad.

 

Having said that, he could very well be - I don't know him. The only person who does actually know him personally (I assume) is the OP. We can all theorise about the meaning of what he said until the cows come home but none of us actually knows.

 

It is possible that, whilst having an exclusive relationship, he feels it's too soon (for whatever reason) to label it so that they are, in his head, committed in some way. Some people understand that, others don't. We all have different opinions and life experiences that will sway our beliefs.

 

It is also possible that he's a scumbag who is stringing the OP along and even putting her at risk of STDs.

 

As I don't personally know either party involved I think it could be either BUT, the OP says she believes it's the former so I'm prepared to go along with her take on it - it's her relationship - she knows better than any of us.

 

Some people think it's impossible to be faithful in LDRs (especially for men), some of us know that it isn't impossible. Only the person on the inside knows for sure.

 

Tigress asked if someone can be in an exclusive relationship and not consider themselves bf/gf. Clearly many people think you can.

[tigressA]

You know something I just really am dying to say? "Well you know what, I don't have sex with 'very very good friends'. I only have sex with guys I'm exclusively dating, i.e. 'boyfriends'. So if you're just my 'very very good friend', I'm sure you'll understand why I won't be f*cking you anymore!"

 

But perhaps that isn't the best way to go about it.

[Awesome Username]

Not only that, but when she asked him for a concrete validation of the "boyfriend/girlfriend" status, he gave a vague assurance this would maybe happen at some undefined point in the unspecified future.

 

That's a classic example of the guy "stringing the girl along." He's not giving her what she wants relationship-wise but in order to keep the sex coming he "tells her what she wants to hear" but in such a way that he never actually has to back it up. He's telling her just enough to keep the sexual part of the relationship going. "Someday" never comes.

 

It (actually when) it all blows up, as it must, he has an easy out: "I never said I was your boyfriend. I told you that we were just dear dear friends. You knew the deal."

 

Clearly the OP's male "friend" perceives this relationship as an FWB relationship, conveniently long distance.

 

Why OP would believe this guy is trustworthy and not doing stuff or trying to with other women when she's not around, after the conversation she had with him, can only be attributed to some very wishful thinking.

 

If the OP's male "friend" is NOT willing to call her his "girlfriend" it's so he can honestly tell any other women he happens to meet, if asked: "I'm seeing someone occasionally but it's just very casual. She's not my girlfriend and I'm not her boyfriend." No other reason.

 

I'm sorry Tigress, but I completely agree with this poster. It has been three months, you guys are long distance, and he never had the damned decency to clue you in on this sooner. I don't know why everyone seems okay with this. I would at least stop sleeping with him if I were you. You deserve a lot better than this FWB crap. And if he said that you were his really good friend than that's all it is - a friend with benefits.

 

Don't let him say that you're crazy or have him believe you're overreacting. You should call him up an wonder what on Earth he meant. I was in a situation similar to yours and it hurt like Hell. It ended up with him explaining that he just "Takes a long time to have serious feelings for someone." If he doesn't have serious feelings enough for you to be his girlfriend at this point, I'd make an exit strategy. You are WAY too beautiful and nice for this kind of man.

 

Oh, I wish I could kick him for you.

[carhill]

Carhill, there definitely are ramifications with that terminology that are pretty much exactly what you suggested.

 

To me, knowing this, it then becomes a matter of clarifying *your* perspective and communicating it.

 

'I feel that the man I'm intimate with, sexual with, and loving to is my boyfriend. He's far more to me than a friend, and I want to feel that I mean the same to him. I want to hear it in his words and see it in his actions. How do you feel about that?'

 

Listen.

 

'I understand that certain labels in your culture might conflict with us calling each other boyfriend/girlfriend right now. I'd like to learn more about that and how you feel about it. Can you share more with me?'

 

Listen.

 

Remember, my approach is predicated upon *my* perspective that anyone you can have intimate relations with, be as close as two humans can possibly be physically, you can talk with calmly and rationally about such perspectives and work *together* to reach a resolution. To me, that's what intimacy is all about.

 

You can compromise. You can accept his perspective and decide you're incompatible. You can accept his perspective and decide this issue isn't a deal-breaker. He can do the same. Many potentials. Good luck

[Awesome Username]

You know something I just really am dying to say? "Well you know what, I don't have sex with 'very very good friends'. I only have sex with guys I'm exclusively dating, i.e. 'boyfriends'. So if you're just my 'very very good friend', I'm sure you'll understand why I won't be f*cking you anymore!"

 

But perhaps that isn't the best way to go about it.

 

No Tigress, I think that's an excellent way to go about it. Men know what they're doing when they lay down this "friends" stuff, they just play dumb about it with you and make you feel like you're being crazy for bringing it up because they don't want the sex to end. PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD say it like that and keep us updated. I really do want to kill this guy.

[tigressA]

No Tigress, I think that's an excellent way to go about it. Men know what they're doing when they lay down this "friends" stuff, they just play dumb about it with you and make you feel like you're being crazy for bringing it up because they don't want the sex to end. PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD say it like that and keep us updated. I really do want to kill this guy.

 

It is tempting, but really, I would just be giving him an opportunity to lie. It'd be better to go about it the way Carhill proposed, so I can understand him and decide if we're compatible or not.

[Anela]

You know something I just really am dying to say? "Well you know what, I don't have sex with 'very very good friends'. I only have sex with guys I'm exclusively dating, i.e. 'boyfriends'. So if you're just my 'very very good friend', I'm sure you'll understand why I won't be f*cking you anymore!"

 

But perhaps that isn't the best way to go about it.

 

I think that's the perfect way to go about it, actually.

[Lucky555]

Without wishing to state the obvious, sometimes a 'mutually exclusive' LDR turns out to be not quite as mutually exclusive as one party believes it to be.

 

However, from what tigressA says, my reasons for questioning the exclusivity don't hold water. The conversation wasn't along the lines I was thinking so yes, we can assume it is mutually exclusive.

 

BUT mutually exclusive does not equal relationship. As StarGazer and USMCHoke have said, I've also been mutually exclusive with guys I didn't consider my boyfriend.

 

To me the difference is this:

 

Mutually exclusive means two individuals who choose to have sex with each other and nobody else.

 

A boyfriend/girlfriend relationship means two people who choose to have sex with each other and nobody else AND consider themselves a couple.

 

Big difference! To me anyway.

 

Read the bold unfortunately this is true. You would think exclusive means a relationship but it doesn't.

 

Boyfriend/girlfriend is used when both want the same thing.

 

I realized this year when i was in an "exclusive" "thing" which i thought was a relationship....I knew right when it was v-day weekend we were not bf/gf he never told me happy v-day, never got me anything, and totally acted like we were casual friends...wth?? It didn't make sense and I back away slowly and then realized this is what it was "Bed buddies". I was very straight forward of saying i want a relationship now just to be a bed buddy and of course he lied. anyways thats that. Make sure you know he will want a relationship or you will end up being and exclusive bed buddy..

[Awesome Username]

It is tempting, but really, I would just be giving him an opportunity to lie. It'd be better to go about it the way Carhill proposed, so I can understand him and decide if we're compatible or not.

 

I understand that you care for him a lot and want it to work. I just hope that no matter what happens with this guy, you eventually get to the point where a man saying something like that this far into the relationship is an automatic, electric "Not."

[Lucky555]

oh ya another thing..kick him in the balls..wait they are gone because he doesn't have them to tell you that he doesn't see a long term relationship!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If he wanted something real he would be saying he is your bf. Its not like your wanting to get married tomorrow..you want to know that he is going to consider you for a long term relationship and maybe possibly more. He on the other hand is saying well I'm not committing to her. Hes just exclusive in the terms of sex. sorry to tell you that but after reading your post i would have been furious. Especially since your already sleeping together. Come on he can't be a bf...it implies he cares about you and wants to be with you!! Exclusive is saying were bed buddies and I don't have to commit to you nor do i have to care. wow he probably knows he doesn't want anything too serious.. really you got say something dont be afraid of losing him. You dont want someone who doesnt want the same things as you.